Magazine as a monopod?

[earthworm94]

Just being curious...

Is it an acceptable practice to use the magazine as a resting point on a hard flat surface like a monopod to stabilize the weapon? That especially applies to magazine like Lancer that has a rubber floor pad.

Thanks.

[patrolman]

I recall Pat Rogers did a recent article on that very topic in SWAT magazine (I think). It had some good information in it. I'll see if I can dig up the article and get you the issue information, if that will help.

[PRGGodfather]

The Magpul boys recommend using it as a monopod in the prone postion. Sure, there are some trainers who say this can cause some malfunctions -- but I haven't encountered any using the monopod technique. I don't burn through as many rounds as some of the guys here, but certainly more than my fair share!

[DaBears_85]

The only problem I could see with it is if when dropping into the prone you're letting the mag be the first thing to hit the ground and putting your body weight into/onto it. I would try to be conscious of this if you're doing up-down/react to contact drills. If you're just plinking at the range and getting down into the prone casually, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's a great way to steady the weapon if you don't have any sandbags. When we do firing from the prone unsupported in the army they tell us to use the mag to help steady the weapon.

[Taran]

When we do firing from the prone unsupported in the army they tell us to use the mag to help steady the weapon.
I wish they would've told me to do that. I'll have to try it next time I'm at the range. Well, at the rifle range.
The demo range is a bad place to be practicing this sort of thing. And I doubt it'd be much help on the pistol range...

[DaBears_85]

I wish they would've told me to do that. I'll have to try it next time I'm at the range. Well, at the rifle range.
The demo range is a bad place to be practicing this sort of thing. And I doubt it'd be much help on the pistol range...

Yeah it works great if your zeroing, shooting at a plate, or something of the like. If you're qualifying it can get a little awkward cause you have to swivel the rifle on the mag to get the 50 left/right. I just pick it up to hit the 50 left/right or anything that's dramatically to the left or right of me and then plant it on the mag for the relatively straight ahead shots. Like the 300's for example.

[PRGGodfather]

The only problem I could see with it is if when dropping into the prone you're letting the mag be the first thing to hit the ground and putting your body weight into/onto it. I would try to be conscious of this if you're doing up-down/react to contact drills. If you're just plinking at the range and getting down into the prone casually, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's a great way to steady the weapon if you don't have any sandbags. When we do firing from the prone unsupported in the army they tell us to use the mag to help steady the weapon.

When dropping into the prone, the magazine is not hitting first -- support hand hits the ground first. Sometimes when doing this, you might bang the rear of the stock into the ground, but if you're already taking fire -- that's the least of your worries.

[DaBears_85]

When dropping into the prone, the magazine is not hitting first -- support hand hits the ground first. Sometimes when doing this, you might bang the rear of the stock into the ground, but if you're already taking fire -- that's the least of your worries.

No, I meant if you're dropping into the prone and letting the mag be the first to hit the ground. Or just coming down on it really hard in general.

Agreed, when taking fire, who gives a shit.

[Taran]

When dropping into the prone, the magazine is not hitting first -- support hand hits the ground first. Sometimes when doing this, you might bang the rear of the stock into the ground, but if you're already taking fire -- that's the least of your worries.

Is that the current training? Last I was taught, you hit the ground with the stock first.
Of course, that was the old A2, not the M4. It does rather makes sense to drop the off-hand to make contact first because the shortened stock is, well, short.

[ST911]

The myth of the malfunctioning monopoded magazine needs to die. It is a highly effective way of stabilizing your gun in the prone position, and will always be available when bipods, sandbags, and other supports are not.

I've been to courses where the practice was prohibited or frowned upon. Whenever possible, I've simply disregarded such advisories and demonstrated the fallacy of it all.

It is conceivable that monopoding the mag could create conditions where stoppages may occur, but this will be with suspect components with great deviations in tolerance and tolerance stacking. However, an AR likely to malfunction while monopoded will also be likely to malfunction for other reasons as well.

[DaBears_85]

Is that the current training? Last I was taught, you hit the ground with the stock first.
Of course, that was the old A2, not the M4. It does rather makes sense to drop the off-hand to make contact first because the shortened stock is, well, short.

The way I was taught is that you get on your haunches (spelling?) like you're squating, put your support hand down then kick your legs out as you fall onto your stomach. Of course, if you're receiving fire and you haven't practiced it enough to the point where it's become muscle memory, you're just gonna want to get the **** down as fast as you can.

[PRGGodfather]

It was at the Magpul HVWM Course with Costa in February.


Is that the current training? Last I was taught, you hit the ground with the stock first.
Of course, that was the old A2, not the M4. It does rather makes sense to drop the off-hand to make contact first because the shortened stock is, well, short.

[DaBears_85]

The myth of the malfunctioning monopoded magazine needs to die. It is a highly effective way of stabilizing your gun in the prone position, and will always be available when bipods, sandbags, and other supports are not.

I've been to courses where the practice was prohibited or frowned upon. Whenever possible, I've simply disregarded such advisories and demonstrated the fallacy of it all.

It is conceivable that monopoding the mag could create conditions where stoppages may occur, but this will be with suspect components with great deviations in tolerance and tolerance stacking. However, an AR likely to malfunction while monopoded will also be likely to malfunction for other reasons as well.

I agree completely, I was just trying to think up a way that it could **** up your mag. Falling onto it with the weight of your body seemed to be a pretty good one.

[PRGGodfather]

Copy that. You're right. Didn't catch your if letting.

There is no squatting the way Costa teaches it. Trust me. Had the scrapes to prove it.



I agree completely, I was just trying to think up a way that it could **** up your mag. Falling onto it with the weight of your body seemed to be a pretty good one.

[OTO27]

When I was in the Marines it was a big NO NO to do this, I however dont know why, I either forgot or it was just never explained to me.

[DaBears_85]

Copy that. You're right. Didn't catch your if letting.

There is no squatting the way Costa teaches it. Trust me. Had the scrapes to prove it.

Well the squatting part was extremely low speed. Beginner level stuff to get a feel for the motions. The high speed version becomes all one swift motion.

[nickdrak]

The entire "Issue" with using your magazine as a monopod in the prone position was created by God only knows, and it has been perpetuated via Military Doctrine for the past few decades.

As long as you arent using your rifle to balance your entire body weight while doing a hand-stand and shooting it at the same time, you wont have an "issue".;)

[RetreatHell]

Funny thing about this is that in the first Magpul Dynamics DVD, the Art of the Tactical Carbine, one of the students (Debbie?) had their mag resting on the deck in the grass (using it as a monopod) when they were about to BZO their carbines, and Travis Haley saw this and walked over to the student and told her she needed to get that magazine up off the deck so that it doesn't induce a stoppage of her weapon.

After I saw that DVD, I stated seeing pics in Pat Rogers' AARs over on LightFighter where his students would be lying prone in the dirt and obviously using their mags as monopods. So I figured it's probably okay, but was still kind of confused.

Then, while watching the Art of the Tactical Carbine Volume:2, I notice that both Chris and Travis use the monopod in the prone position whenever they demo the drills beforehand, and all of their students (at least most of them) were using it too whenever they'd dive down to the ground into the prone position.

And that's also how it was in my Magpul Dynamic Carbine 1 course down here in Houston, TX several months ago now.

It's a really good example of how Magpul Dynamics is not all about "absolutes." They'll say all the time that something you learned in a previous carbine class you took from them might not be the way it's done anymore by the time you make it to your next course with them. That's because MD is a constantly changing things up and evolving in order to find the best and most efficient TTPs out there with no absolutes.

[Jay Cunningham]

Funny thing about this is that in the first Magpul Dynamics DVD, the Art of the Tactical Carbine, one of the students (Debbie?) had their mag resting on the deck in the grass (using it as a monopod) when they were about to BZO their carbines, and Travis Haley saw this and walked over to the student and told her she needed to get that magazine up off the deck so that it doesn't induce a stoppage of her weapon.

I was just thinking that when I read one of the above posts, and then I read yours. I guess he changed his mind since AOTTC.

To the OP, when shooting from prone, both elbows and the 30 round mag on the deck is a really stable shooting position.

[subzero]

The old thinking was that using a magazine as a monopod would induce stoppages. I have seen this actually happen with an ancient magazine. It's not an indicator that the technique is flawed, it shows that your magazine is ate up and needs to be moved over to the "range only" pile.

The instructors I have trained with have advocated using the magazine as a monopod since anything you can do to make the gun steadier will aid your shot placement. They also train that when you go prone, don't land on your friggin gun.

The downsides of the magazine monopod method are worth noting. One, older mags with worn feed lips or mag catches could induce a stoppage. Two, with mags and gear on your chest, it may be hard for some folks to get low enough in the prone to see their through their sights as they normally would. You may have to adopt a slightly unconventional prone to get your eyes in position to shoot.

[PRGGodfather]

Couldn't agree more. What impressed me most about the Magpul class was it was principle driven, and not intended as a vehicle to sell products.

Costa, Drake and Kerry never once said their way was the ONLY way -- it was A WAY that worked based on economy of motion, ergonomics and balancing speed with accuracy. The principles used are golden, even though there may be multiple applications based on a given situation. The situation really dictates the technique, not the other way around. If only more shooters were as open-minded about learning, rather than insisting they were the end-all because they used one system that worked. Breaking old paradigms is awesome, and broadens the knowledge base.

At my CA POST Patrol Rifle Instructor Course, the instructor said using the magazine as a monopod was a NO NO, because it could create stoppages. I cheated anyway, and didn't have any problems. The instructor was awesome, as he never claimed to be the best -- but he HAD been trained by a lot of world class trainers.

For the NRA course, monopodding is a NO NO. I cheated anyway, and didn't have any problems. The instructor was a Vietnam-era GySgt, who had forgotten more than most of us will know -- and he came by it honestly.

Took the Magpul HVWM Course in San Bernardino in February of 2010, and just about fell over when Costa recommended using the magazine as a monopod. Said I'd been "cheating" that way for years, but so many other instructors seemed to frown on it. Costa, Drake and Kerry all said the same thing, "If it works, why wouldn't you use it?"

Can't mess with success, and the truth can have more than one angle on it.

There's no such thing as cheating in a gunfight. In fact, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!

And Costa's "dropping into the prone" is more like landing in a one-handed push-up. Dude moves like a snake. Most of us weren't nearly as fast or graceful, but gravity was still our friend!

Yeah, been hearing about not using the magazine as monopod from all kinds of folks for almost 30 years.

Saw a student rifle have a rearward pressure-induced stoppage with an out-of-spec magazine -- when rearward pressure was applied, it would stop. If forward pressure was applied on the mag, it would run. He would have had problems using this magazine as a monopod.

In the meantime, all of the other magazines he had were checked and ran like sewing machines. Ditched the magazine, end of problem. Have only run into a few out-of-spec magwells, and they were with Olys.

STRONGLY recommend testing ALL mags thoroughly before using them in the field. Assuming they are GTG just because they are brand new in package is a HUGE mistake. All equipment should be vetted before use, regardless of manufacturer or other techniques.

As always, JMHO, and YMMV.



I was just thinking that when I read one of the above posts, and then I read yours. I guess he changed his mind since AOTTC.

To the OP, when shooting from prone, both elbows and the 30 round mag on the deck is a really stable shooting position.

[ForTehNguyen]

i remember in the magpul DVDs when they went prone they went to the ground supported by the support hand, not diving onto the magazine.

[BWT]

I wouldn't drop on a gun in the prone... just because I'd be afraid I'd land on the optic, shove the muzzle into the dirt and obstructing the barrel bore/screw up the muzzle crown etc.

As thin as the walls are on an AR-15/M-16 magazine, I'd be afraid I'd damage it, as well.

Just my observation.

[Failure2Stop]

Magazine monopod is good to go, as long as your gear supports it.
Some people have so much crap on their chests that getting that low is nigh impossible unless they have a built-up area to plant the mag.

I have slammed M4s and M16A4s into the ground so hard the mag was 1 inch deep in the dirt. No problems. The mags used were proven O-Kay mags with Gen 1 or 2 Magpul followers. I was able to induce stoppages with old black-follower mags (I am not blaming the follower, simply giving an idea of age) by pushing the magazine into a piece of cover with all my weight and firing as quickly as I could. Out of 5 or 6 mags I had 2 to 3 stoppages per magazine. All stoppages were nose-dives below the feed-ramps (M16A4, no M4 ramps).

[Fontaine]

I took Magpul Carbine 1 in the fall of 2009, and at that time the MD instructors were noting that any decent quality magazine should be able to take the brunt of you and the weapon hitting the deck.

Support hand comes down, and then the weapon hits the deck via the magazine. Philosophy was, when you're getting shot at, you're probably just gonna let the weapon/magazine hit the deck, so train that way. If you magazines can't handle it, get better magazines.

I've abused my PMAGs and Lancer L5 mags with no ill effects. "Dynamic prone" doesn't seem to be a challenge for the magazines either.

[opmike]

Funny thing about this is that in the first Magpul Dynamics DVD, the Art of the Tactical Carbine, one of the students (Debbie?) had their mag resting on the deck in the grass (using it as a monopod) when they were about to BZO their carbines, and Travis Haley saw this and walked over to the student and told her she needed to get that magazine up off the deck so that it doesn't induce a stoppage of her weapon.



Here's the actual dialog for those wondering.

Costa: If you can, we try to keep the magazine off the deck. Mainly because it can cause a weapon malfunction. Okay. If you have pressure pushing this way on the magazine, if you keep forward pressure, meaning if the magazine is actually now going this way, forward, there's a good chance you're gonna have a malfunction. So that's why, as a rule of thumb, you wanna keep that magazine up off the ground.

Haley: It comes down to a gear issue. Uh, if you have doubt about your gear not workin' on the ground, then don't put it there. They should be reliable on the ground, so if ever get on the ground and you fire, um, you know it's a good test. Put your, put all the weight on your weapon system, the magazine, fire some rounds out, and if you have a malfunction, I'd suggest throwing that magazine away and getting another one.

[l3mon]

we were always taught NEVER with GI mags, but with Pmags i was always taught GO FOR IT..

i say this because our instructors in ECS demonstrated for us and with a GI mag every couple rounds would mis-feed.

[RetreatHell]

Here's the actual dialog for those wondering.

Costa: If you can, we try to keep the magazine off the deck. Mainly because it can cause a weapon malfunction. Okay. If you have pressure pushing this way on the magazine, if you keep forward pressure, meaning if the magazine is actually now going this way, forward, there's a good chance you're gonna have a malfunction. So that's why, as a rule of thumb, you wanna keep that magazine up off the ground.

Haley: It comes down to a gear issue. Uh, if you have doubt about your gear not workin' on the ground, then don't put it there. They should be reliable on the ground, so if ever get on the ground and you fire, um, you know it's a good test. Put your, put all the weight on your weapon system, the magazine, fire some rounds out, and if you have a malfunction, I'd suggest throwing that magazine away and getting another one.

Thanks for posting that. I thought it was Haley that said it, but looks like it was Costa.

[markm]

In one of Todd Jarrett's youtube videos he takes an M4 and intentionally pushes the gun's make on the deck and dumps rounds in full auto down range to show that it doesn't cause malfs.

[Pappabear]

I took a class in which the instructor was also a "High Power" shooter and discouraged it. I did it and shot better than most because they tried other methods. I felt if others had used it, I would have been in the norm. Very easy-very stable. I still practice other methods, but if I had my druthers, pmag is GTG.

[ROCKET20_GINSU]

I've used my Mag as a monopod for several years without problems, and with enhanced effects downrange. I've used standard GI mags w/ green followers, GI mags w/ magpul followers and Pmags all with excellent success and zero malfunctions related to the use of the mag as a monopod.

I encouraged my Soldiers when I was AD USA to use it to improve their stability in the prone unsupported position during qualification and it definitely improved their scores overall, they did not encounter any malfunctions related to using the mag in this capacity.

I agree with the consensus that slamming into the ground is a non issue. Sure its not a good thing to practice habitually but if it happens in the heat of the moment once in a while its really no big deal, just don't make this a regular part of your personal TTPs on IMT. As others have mentioned there are plenty of other reasons why you wouldn't slam the rifle into the ground anyway breaking optics, loss of zero, debris in barrel / action, etc.

Give it a try on the range to ensure that the technique does not give your rifle & mags any trouble and then blast away :D

GU

[RogerinTPA]

The old thinking was that using a magazine as a monopod would induce stoppages. I have seen this actually happen with an ancient magazine. It's not an indicator that the technique is flawed, it shows that your magazine is ate up and needs to be moved over to the "range only" pile.

The instructors I have trained with have advocated using the magazine as a monopod since anything you can do to make the gun steadier will aid your shot placement. They also train that when you go prone, don't land on your friggin gun.

The downsides of the magazine monopod method are worth noting. One, older mags with worn feed lips or mag catches could induce a stoppage. Two, with mags and gear on your chest, it may be hard for some folks to get low enough in the prone to see their through their sights as they normally would. You may have to adopt a slightly unconventional prone to get your eyes in position to shoot.

Agreed. I have seen the same thing with out of spec old mags, and or, folks pulling the weapon into them, after planting the mag on the deck, rocking it aft, and inducing a stoppage.

[Shooter101]

It is perfectly acceptable to place your mag on the ground when firing. There is the unsupported and the supported. Not to many folks are goof shooting off hand. If you don't have something to post up against to take a supported shot and you have to go to ground then by all means use your MAG. We teach it in outcome base training in the Army. Like one of the guys above me said as long as your mag does not hit the ground and you are resting your weapon, it is not big deal!

[deuce9166]

I have had two P-Mags cause double feeds while using them as a monopod and that is out of several mags, those two have been replaced. That said I use it as a monopod all the time. I too was taught never to do this and never understood why. If your gear is that sensative then it needs to be replaced.

[kalibos]

aren't the pmag ranger plates for using a mag as a monopod?

[dbrowne1]

Never heard of using the magazine as a monopod being an issue. I've been taught to use the technique when appropriate, and told and shown that it causes no issues, by everyone from Massad Ayoob (in a carbine class 12 years ago) to several of the current "big name" carbine gurus.

[Redhat]

I think this problem was largely caused by worn out training magazines that should have been trashed long before. We used 'em as long as possible because we didn't know if we would be able to get new ones.

We even used to straighten bent feedlips with a Leatherman tool to keep them going!

If the course calls for prone unsupported I will not allow the mag to touch the ground because they are being evaluated on the unsupported position, which you may also need to be well versed in. I actually think of 3 prone positions: supported, unsupported, combat prone (monopod). And then you have all the current variations.

[ST911]

As a couple of others put it, get down, get some weight on the gun, rock it around, and shoot it hard. If it doesn't work, ditch the mag and try again.

If you've got access to an auto, try that too.

When you find that the technique works, help put bunk to bed.

[The Rat]

From what I understand, the mag monopod = bad idea is due to institutional inertia. The old M14 would get stoppages if you monopodded off of its mag, and this transferred over after the M16 was adopted.

[Robb Jensen]

I use the mag as a monopod when shooting prone. I also try to make as much contact with the ground as I possibly can. Once in a while you'll discover a gun which you can induce a stoppage when doing this, if you find one that does get another gun there is nothing you can do to fix it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/competition%20pics/topton3gun1472.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/competition%20pics/robbtoptonrifle3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/competition%20pics/RobbArea8rifle3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/competition%20pics/robbrifle-3.jpg

[Failure2Stop]

I think that the reason that the magazine monopod was a no-go for so long was due to the training cirruculums present in most branches of the military were based off of high-power/service rifle competitions instead of combat efficiency.

[Ratfink]

the new mapul magazines from what i understand are designed to be used as a monopod you can use them now without stopages

[gunrunnerusmc03]

When I was in the Marines it was a big NO NO to do this, I however dont know why, I either forgot or it was just never explained to me.

which range told you this? We got the green light to do this in Lejuene

[Dozer]

I think that the reason that the magazine monopod was a no-go for so long was due to the training cirruculums present in most branches of the military were based off of high-power/service rifle competitions instead of combat efficiency.

Bingo.

[sinister]

Gentlemen,

This is a topic that goes round-and-round because of long-held but unproven beliefs and theories about the reliability of the M16 system. Like lubrication there are arguments pro and con, often made by folks who have not personally tried and tested different methods -- kind of like guys who will argue 9mm vs. .40 vs .45; Ford vs. Chevy; dry, white glove clean vice wet-lubed M16s.

"Canadian Prone" and "Monopod prone" off the magazine have been derided as malfunction-inducing and the root cause for everything from bad breath and flatulence to daylight savings time and the JFK assassination.

It is a viable technique for firing off the most stable shooting platform available -- the earth. Try it with a Ready-Mag with two magazines and you have a built-in bipod with two points of the tripod giving hard stability.

A drawback to Canadian Prone is it should not be used on a hard surface (pavement or concrete) that can cause you to bounce during shot follow-through and come off target. It may also not be low enough if you are shooting in armor with hard plates with gear on your front (magazines, equipment, IFAK) that raise your torso, head, and eyeballs higher than sight line.

You will also have limited traversing capability if you have to cover a wider area and targets are fleeting or prairie-dogging.

It is a good technique for longer-range firing requiring stable aim, such as firing from a support-by-fire position or during bounding overwatch.

[Mjolnir]

By placing forward pressure on the rifle one is moving the front of the magazine in the mag well downward. This could conceivably impede bullet feeding. That's really about it. If there is much play in the mag well then, yes, there could be issues.

I'd not advocate slamming the magazine into the ground, however. In an emergency please take cover but I would not make a habit of it.

[Daekwan]

Great thread. I was scared to use the mag as a monopod because of mag induced failures, but I'll be sure to try it next time I go shooting. Maybe tomorrow! :)

[KevinB]

Cdn Prone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Army%20stuff/F1070003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/IMG_0902a.jpg

and my son who likes to Monopod the tank..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/JandBeast.jpg


No issues

The only times I see an issue is the FATS/SAT trainer which was designed with Marine input... to fail when the mag was bottomed - way to go :rolleyes:

[AEROX711]

It's been said, but I too am a fan of this TTP. Slap a Magpul ranger plate on your magazine and it sits very well on the ground. I have never had any malfunction while doing this on SBR's, 16" patrol rifles, or 18" SPR's.

[mike240]

I have seen malfunctions occur with certain ARs running certain mags. I think this is due to some slight varying in tolerances of front to rear in the mag well allowing some mags to move fore and aft, tolerances in the mags themselves etc. I use the mag as support. I do not teach to do it or not to do it. I present both and stress the need to "proof" your deployment gear prior to putting it into service. Toss out any mags that cause stoppages when using the technique. Make sure your combination of lower receiver and magazines work. Just like tactics being subjective based on an individual's skill set, shooting techniques need to be adjusted to best suit the individual.

[RetreatHell]

I have seen malfunctions occur with certain ARs running certain mags. I think this is due to some slight varying in tolerances of front to rear in the mag well allowing some mags to move fore and aft, tolerances in the mags themselves etc. I use the mag as support. I do not teach to do it or not to do it. I present both and stress the need to "proof" your deployment gear prior to putting it into service. Toss out any mags that cause stoppages when using the technique. Make sure your combination of lower receiver and magazines work. Just like tactics being subjective based on an individual's skill set, shooting techniques need to be adjusted to best suit the individual.

Yeah I could see malfs occur with out of spec mag wells, like if the magazine has way more play than it should while locked in the mag well. When I was shooting in this position last week (b/c the bench was too high for me to use the bipod), I was really leaning into the gun and shoving the magazine into the edge of the bench pretty hard in order to get as much stability as possible, and it worked very well. But I was actually wondering before I fired the first shot whether or not it might induce a malfunction. It didn't. The lower receiver is a Larue Tactical billet lower.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/BCM%20SBR/BCM%20Middy%20SBR/DSCF1513.jpg

[Surf]

As others have mentioned, I do believe that it stemmed from old school doctrine and still persists in many instructors. By old school, meaning that I did see a lot of malfunctions induced in the old USGI black follower mags. However with the advent of the green anti-tilts and other mag designs, this issue, well became not an issue. However it was so indoctrinated in trainers teaching trainers that it persists even to this day.

I remember at an NRALE course (for recertification) only about 4 years ago and this was still being taught as being taboo by the instructors. I will say that the instructors did say that if you are back in 3 years for re-certs many different techniques may evolve or change, so credit for saying that. It is often mentioned by the instructors (especially progressive minded trainers) in many other schools that I have attended that they acknowledge that what you learned 2 years ago, may not be the same today. Techniques, gear, weapons and accessories change, improve or are refined over time, so teaching methodology should adapt accordingly. As an instructor / trainer, this is also a point that I like to make to my students.

[MAP]

A picture is worth a 1,000 words.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/MAP1911/IMG_2369.jpg

[ST911]

A picture is worth a 1,000 words

Yes, it is.

~200 or so rounds today fed from these while on the deck today. Nothing observed other than some extra stability. Notice abrasions at the bottom rear and the slight rounding of the edge there.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/LE6920%20Hammer%20Drag%20Damage/ARC%20Mags/9fa75cdd.jpg

[Robb Jensen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Quantico3gun2010/robbBCM2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/Quantico3gun2010/robbFAL.jpg

[kennith13]

There was plenty of good logic behind advising to avoid the practice. Mass produced and over-used magazines, coupled with the rifles in the same condition could cause unreliability with the magazine being jostled during use as a monopod.

Has that changed? Perhaps. Even in the military, parts are better selected now, and of higher quality. Things fit better, and the weapon system has been massaged a bit over time, as we all know.

On the civilian side of things, there has been a massive change.

If it's working, it's working.

In the past, I have seen the practice help induce malfunctions, but things were old, and they weren't as nice as they are today. As well, the malfunctions I noted weren't on carbines, they were on rifles.

I haven't experimented enough to see things one way or another, anymore. Things aren't very simple now. I had a nice bit of time in the good old fashioned Army. Then, one day, everything started being turned on it's head. The whole system was shaken down for it's lunch money.

If it works, it will be allowed during basic training eventually. I'm not sure what they are doing there now. Proper training, however, is worlds different from what it used to be. Everything is in a constant state of invention and development now.

Practices are changing on a daily basis as new things are learned. Thank God for that. An average Joe now has more ability to function than superior units have had in the past.

Things are just plain better now. Some things, I don't like, but they have little to do with actual training. I'll give it a whirl on a more daily basis to see what I think about using a mag as a monopod. I'm using Magpuls almost exclusively now, but I've still got a stack of old fashioned mags laying about.

I'll try it for a while. Some of the things mentioned around here, I don't like at all. This, however, has some merit. If it turns out to be reliable for me, it's weight off the weapon.

I don't shoot outside of 200 yards. Ever. That's the bleeding edge of my imposed limit, if all else fails. Inside 100 is where I keep myself primarily.

I don't need a proper bi-pod. I don't even really need the grip-pod that I have. I've got to have something, though. It would be nice to find that I can now use the magazine without issue. I honestly haven't bothered with it, outside of those times when it just happens.

A monopod would be enough for my purposes, in all foreseeable events. If it turns out that I can use the mag, great. This is just on of those things that I need to stop avoiding and bitching about, and just try it.

[hossb7]

Works for me :)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/shooting/Long-range-1-9-10-021.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/hossb7/shooting/9027_514267438825_205400086_3095032.jpg

[Zack_trp1911]

I was yelled at during a qualification test when I supported my issued rifle on the magazine. The instructors told me it can cause a malfunction. I laughed in my head, replied and told them I've used my magazine as a monopod every time I went prone with my personal rifles and training classes I seeked out on my own, and never had a failure. Their reply to me was that I would fail the qualification, "not responding to training". I said "yes sir I understand", and completed the qual their way.
I'm estimating maybe 450-500 rounds taken from the monopod magazine prone position...no problems.

[Iraqgunz]

You realize that this post is almost 6 years old and you have now qualified for the 2016 Necropost Awards, right?


I was yelled at during a qualification test when I supported my issued rifle on the magazine. The instructors told me it can cause a malfunction. I laughed in my head, replied and told them I've used my magazine as a monopod every time I went prone with my personal rifles and training classes I seeked out on my own, and never had a failure. Their reply to me was that I would fail the qualification, "not responding to training". I said "yes sir I understand", and completed the qual their way.
I'm estimating maybe 450-500 rounds taken from the monopod magazine prone position...no problems.

[Zack_trp1911]

Actually I didn't even look at the date...

[phenom00]

I was yelled at during a qualification test when I supported my issued rifle on the magazine. The instructors told me it can cause a malfunction. I laughed in my head, replied and told them I've used my magazine as a monopod every time I went prone with my personal rifles and training classes I seeked out on my own, and never had a failure. Their reply to me was that I would fail the qualification, "not responding to training". I said "yes sir I understand", and completed the qual their way.
I'm estimating maybe 450-500 rounds taken from the monopod magazine prone position...no problems.
Lol, this thread may be a blast from the past but a few weeks ago while taking the patrol rifle instructors course for my dept, I was also dinged for using the mag as a monopod. Same sort of old school logic about it causing malfunctions. Made my head hurt.

[WS6]

The only malfunction I have seen it cause is with Lancer mags, and also a Noveske Gen 2 lower with PMAG's. WHen you pull the rifle toward you, it tilts the mag, and can prevent bolt lock on empty.

[Mrgunsngear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcBGtoH_uSc

Interesting. I've yet to have an issue with a "modern" mag

[T2C]

Lol, this thread may be a blast from the past but a few weeks ago while taking the patrol rifle instructors course for my dept, I was also dinged for using the mag as a monopod. Same sort of old school logic about it causing malfunctions. Made my head hurt.


I have seen malfunctions occur a few times during carbine courses and qualifications when the shooter gripped the magazine like a vertical grip and pulled it rearward. Some instructors may confuse that with using the magazine as a monopod.

I have not seen any malfunctions by merely resting the magazine on the ground to steady the rifle. Why not take advantage of an extra point of contact?

[phenom00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcBGtoH_uSc

Interesting. I've yet to have an issue with a "modern" magLOL, thank you! Now that I am certified I think ill show them your vid, their heads will explode.

[SDSwoll]

It took a range demo for me to convince our previous firearms coordinator (old school Army Ranger) that this was an OK practice.