View Full Version : No love for the XD?
SpookyPistolero
04-29-10, 11:50
After perusing this forum for a while, I can't help but notice that the XD doesn't seem to be real popular! I know the Glocks and 1911s are popular and strong platforms (I own both), but no one seems to dig the lowly XD?
I've had an XD9 for a couple of years and it's been boringly reliable, and I strongly prefer the trigger v. the glock. The grip angle is another strong plus. It's been more accurate than me across its life. I've seen many XDs in IDPA matches (I think being in a kit form appeals to beginners) and they've also all been reliable.
Anyone got one, prefer one, use one? Here's mine prior to a lot of use & wear...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t259/Spookypistolero/P1010045.jpg
Of the main polymer pistols available (HK, Glock, M&P, FN), I would rank it the worst of the bunch.
We commonly refer to them as "bubba" guns as we typically only see them with people that don't know anything about guns with them. No offense to you though (as you could be a world class gunfighter).
If you like the pistol, then great, but I would not rate it above a Glock or M&P for reliability and performance.
C4
I had the opportunity to A/B a XD9 4" against a G19 3rd Gen for five different range sessions over the last three weeks. While this trial obviously has no bearing on the long-term reliability of the platforms, I was able to experience the differing and similar ergonomics, the ease and accuracy of shooting, and the ease of maintenance. My personal conclusions, having never previously shot either platform, but being a long-term shooter of both a Browning HP and the Beretta 92, is a preference for the XD9. The grip size, length, and angle are much more comfortable, the differences in muzzle flip and ease of returning to target are negligible, firearm manipulations are easier on the XD, and the takedown procedure is a little more straightforward. My only gripe with the XD was with the grip safety. If you somehow manage to grasp the slide without holding onto he grip safety, it will not manipulate.
Just my preferences of course!
lfromsalem
04-29-10, 14:10
I had a xd .45 a couple years ago. I never had any problems with it. Not for me, just felt chunky.
montanadave
04-29-10, 14:18
I own a XD45 and a XDm 9mm. Used 'em in a couple of classes, never had any issues, and find they fit my hand better than Glocks, but, SHHHHHH!, let's just keep that little bit of information between you and me. This here's Indian Country for XD owners. :D
TheSmiter1
04-29-10, 14:36
I haven't been here long, but I have learned a thing or two. There are people on these forums that shoot more than we do. A lot more. I hope to shoot as much as them some day, but who knows if that will ever happen.
Since they have so much experience with so many different platforms, both with their own personal usage and the observation of others that use the platforms, their advice is generally more appreciated than isolated individual shooter experiences.
Even if someone owns three of the same platform in the same caliber, shoots them a lot, and has excellent results, it doesn't mean that the weapon is perfect or doesn't have issues. The benefit of being able to listen to industry professionals voice their opinions is that you get a panoramic view of the weapon in question.
For instance, take .40 caliber Glocks (which were my recent informational interest). Most people report no problems with them. But many officers and industry professionals here have seen significant issues with them, because they see them used in such large quantities.
The information relayed by these professionals is good reference. It shouldn't influence you too heavily, though, if you like a certain platform, for whatever reason, and want to use it. The reason that it shouldn't influence you TOO heavily (it should still have bearing) is that you are a single person, and your experience could be good. And if it's not, you can just complain to the company until they fix it or replace your gun. If it still isn't fixed, you can simply sell it and be done with it, having gained experience along the way.
Their advice, however, is far more pertinent to those wishing to use the weapons on a large scale (Law Enforcement Agencies).
If an agency has issues with a weapon system, it puts lives at risk, and doesn't leave them a whole lot of outs, except getting the issue fixed with the issuing company, which can be tedious and consumes time that they don't have.
In the end, you have to come to your own conclusions. If it's not an almost guaranteed dead-end (Taurus), then I wouldn't hesitate too much about buying and trying it, if that's what you are comfortable with. Just be aware of the issues you may encounter, and be prepared to deal with those issues, should they arise.
Just don't expect 'Love' for something on this forum. This forum has less bullshit than most. People still have varying opinions. The difference is that there are many well-respected folks who know what they're talking about, as opposed to arm-chair commandos with infinity billion rounds through their High Point with no malfunctions.
Holy crap I just wrote a book. :p
Tennvol12345
04-29-10, 15:40
I switched to the MP series from a XD45C due to the 9mm compact offerings. I didn't get a warm and fuzzy with the XD9SC and since I like to carry the same platform in multiple calibers I switched to the MP9C and the MP45C
I love my XD. I have the 5" 45 with the compact grip. Have owned it for 3-4 years and put about 1000 rounds through it per year. Never have had any stoppage of any kind. It is accurate and reliable. And carries a lot of rounds in a small, lightweight package. I also have several LEO friends who have them and shoot them regularly and to my knowledge have never had a problem with them. The only one who carries his on duty is a Sheriff deputy who has a lot of leeway in choice of weapons.
Personally I have never been able to shoot Glocks. The grip is uncomfortable and at the wrong angle for me and only one of the 20 or so I have shot had a trigger I liked. The person who owned it at the time bought it used and did not know if it had a factory trigger or not. I did have the opportunity to shoot one which had the Robar grip reduction and it was definately better for me. Just can't justify spending more for the glock only to have a trigger job and a grip reduction done as well. That would be kinda like buying a Colt 1911 just to have the name then spending a fortune to have it customized. (Which I did by the way in my youth, don't get me wrong!)
The finish on Glocks is hard a diamonds and does not scratch or wear as easily as XDs or MPs. Don't know about the finish on FNs. I have shot the MPs and FN USPs and like both of them.
I have a number of XDs that have had no issues with round counts of over 10K. I have used them in a number of classes without a single hiccup. There were/are two potential issues with XDs; the older ones would crack blocks, and the trigger bars can break with high round counts. The block issue has been fixed by the factory adding relief cuts. The trigger bar is fixed by dumping the factory part and replacing it with one from Springer Precision. Out of the box, Glock is a better platform. A little work and the XD is right there. I have seen many more issues with M&Ps than I have XDs. Unless you have actual parts breakage, most issues with any decent quality pistol today can be traced back to shooter error. Keep in mind that everyone has their bias and many people only know platforms that are issued to them. I can afford to shoot anything that I want. I like XDs, and yes I too am biased.
This here's Indian Country for XD owners. :D
That's funny!:D
I tried to like them and give them a fair shake. All other issues aside, their recoil impulse and time back on target compared to Glocks and M&P's in the same caliber pretty much made my decision for me.
Grip safety is silly. Before SA put there name on em people thought they where junk. SA on the side and they are great. Not saying they aren't. Only ex I have with em is a friends who rusted in his glove box and a guard i worked with who had one that he loved for all 100 rnds he put thru it. Grip angle is weird for me, but so is a glock. I like my HK.
what is hard to strip about a glock?
I really dont like the XD or the glock platform. Both feel bulky in my hand in 45acp and point really low.
Can anyone tell me what large PD, SO or Federal Agency runs the XD???
C4
Although I have never fired or handled one, I dont like them because of how they look.
I have no other reason......
SpookyPistolero
04-29-10, 19:05
Of the main polymer pistols available (HK, Glock, M&P, FN), I would rank it the worst of the bunch.
We commonly refer to them as "bubba" guns as we typically only see them with people that don't know anything about guns with them.
Classy!
Can anyone tell me what large PD, SO or Federal Agency runs the XD???
C4
I think some run the RRA too, should we all get those instead of BravoCompany, et al?
citizensoldier16
04-29-10, 19:11
Can anyone tell me what large PD, SO or Federal Agency runs the XD???
C4
After some investigation, I've found the following issue or authorize xD pistols:
-quite a few departments in northern Colorado (issue or authorize)
-Croatian Army (issued)
-Georgia State Police (unconfirmed)
-Houston Police Department (authorized)
-US Dept. of Agriculture (issued) :confused: (mad cow disease?!)
-Plano, TX Police Dept (authorized)
-Chicago, IL Police (unconfirmed)
-Tampa, FL Police Dept (authorized)
-Easton, PA Police Dept (issued)
However, the following have SWITCHED to the M&P:
-Colorado State Patrol
-Worchester, Massachusetts Police Department
-Washington Dept. of Corrections
-Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice
-Wisconsin Dept. of Criminal Investigations
-Detroit Police Department
-Iowa State patrol
-Numerous departments here in NC.
Personally, I do not like the xD pistols. They all seem top- and front-heavy to me and do not point well. The M&P on the other hand...that's one sweet gun.
After some investigation, I've found the following issue or authorize xD pistols:
-quite a few departments in northern Colorado (issue or authorize)
-Croatian Army (issued)
-Georgia State Police (unconfirmed)
-Houston Police Department (authorized)
-US Dept. of Agriculture (issued) :confused: (mad cow disease?!)
-Plano, TX Police Dept (authorized)
-Chicago, IL Police (unconfirmed)
-Tampa, FL Police Dept (authorized)
-Easton, PA Police Dept (issued)
However, the following have SWITCHED to the M&P:
-Colorado State Patrol
-Worchester, Massachusetts Police Department
-Washington Dept. of Corrections
-Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice
-Wisconsin Dept. of Criminal Investigations
-Detroit Police Department
-Iowa State patrol
-Numerous departments here in NC.
Personally, I do not like the xD pistols. They all seem top- and front-heavy to me and do not point well. The M&P on the other hand...that's one sweet gun.
Most all PD's and SO's will "authorize" the XD. What were are looking for is major cities and agencies buying the guns with tax payers dollars. Like NYPD, LAPD, etc.
C4
Classy!
I think some run the RRA too, should we all get those instead of BravoCompany, et al?
Hey, thanks! I call it like I see it.
Funny you should bring up the RRA. Typically, PD's, SO and Federal Agencies make VERY good choices in pistols, but VERY POOR choices in AR's. Don't know why that is.
C4
citizensoldier16
04-29-10, 19:22
Most all PD's and SO's will "authorize" the XD. What were are looking for is major cities and agencies buying the guns with tax payers dollars. Like NYPD, LAPD, etc.
C4
Yeah, I the only ones I found I listed above and marked with (issued). The only Federal agency I found was the USDA. Go figure....
RogerinTPA
04-29-10, 19:26
You can also add Clearwater, FL PD to the M&P list. They recently adopted the M&P40.
Here's an article about how 330 PD's have adopted the M&Ps.
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2008/05/21/smith-and-wesson-mp-pistols-adopted-by-more-than-330-police-departments-latest-worcester-mass-pd-in-45-acp/
Another states the number is over 500 PDs.
http://gunnuts.net/2010/02/10/smith-wesson-mp-pistol-named-best-in-class/
To the OP, overall, the XDs have way too many warts and is way over priced for what is being offered. If yours works fine, without issue, you are indeed fortunate. Me, I'll stick with my M&Ps.
After some investigation, I've found the following issue or authorize xD pistols:
-quite a few departments in northern Colorado (issue or authorize)
-Croatian Army (issued)
-Georgia State Police (unconfirmed)
-Houston Police Department (authorized)
-US Dept. of Agriculture (issued) :confused: (mad cow disease?!)
-Plano, TX Police Dept (authorized)
-Chicago, IL Police (unconfirmed)
-Tampa, FL Police Dept (authorized)
-Easton, PA Police Dept (issued)
However, the following have SWITCHED to the M&P:
-Colorado State Patrol
-Worchester, Massachusetts Police Department
-Washington Dept. of Corrections
-Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice
-Wisconsin Dept. of Criminal Investigations
-Detroit Police Department
-Iowa State patrol
-Numerous departments here in NC.
Personally, I do not like the xD pistols. They all seem top- and front-heavy to me and do not point well. The M&P on the other hand...that's one sweet gun.
Yeah, I the only ones I found I listed above and marked with (issued). The only Federal agency I found was the USDA. Go figure....
Right. This would be referred to a clue. ;)
Onto the next question, what professional instructors use AND endorse the XD??
Here is the list of the ones that don't:
Vickers
Hackathorn
Rogers
Magpul Dynamics
The only instructor that I have even heard mentioning the XD is Clint Smith.
C4
citizensoldier16
04-29-10, 19:32
Right. This would be referred to a clue. ;)
Hahaha...gee, thanks!
I wasn't endorsing the xD by any means, trust me. My friend has one and he loves it. I've shot it many times (range and scenario) and just can't seem to like it at all. It doesn't fit my hands, its heavy in all the wrong places, and I just don't like it. I'll stick with my Glocks and my M&P9c.
I am really close to being trespassed from the Cabela's gun counter. :D
Everytime I go I try to stay away from the always busy gun counter. I never take a number. I just hang and listen to the conversations between customers and the gun salesman.
Everytime a novice gun buyer (most) goes to the counter and says "whadya recommend.........", the answer is always "you need an XD", followed by "if it's not a 40 or a 45....."
First time gun buyer? XD40. Home defense? XD45. CCW? XD40C. Camp gun? XD40. Gun for the wife? XD40. My son's going into the police academy? XD45. Most "knock-down power" :rolleyes:? XD45 Tactical. I want a gun to carry while I ride my 4 wheeler to plink with, and just incase of a bear or mountain loin encounter? XD40...no shit? I saw a guy who specifically came in to look at a Taurus revolver. 10 minutes later, the same guy was filling out paperwork for a Springfield XD! Big people, little people, men, women, you need an XD. On and on and on.
I can't help it. I bite my tongue until it bleeds. I have steered away and "sold" the outdoorsman S&W revolvers, the first time shooters 9mm's and questioned why not the M&P or Glock. The salesman get pissed. Do they have incentives to sell these guns? People seem to be attracted to the "bells and whistles" of the XD. The word of the salesman is gospel. "Gun of the YEAR"!
This, by itself irritates me about the XD.
On the other hand, my Sergeant claims his XD9C is the best gun he's ever owned. A fellow officer carries an XD45 and thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. Two co-workers involved in OIS's (seperate) used XD's and made good hits. A few others own and carry them. These are personally owned guns in a department that issues Glocks.
Maybe I'm a gun snob. Maybe I can't stray away from the HS2000 "Croation Creation" days, but the XD is not for me.
If price point is the driving factor for those on a tight budget there are excellent alternatives to the XD's.
Unfortunately Charles Daly went under recently but their CD9, a Turkish licensed Walther P99 can be found on Gunbroker with buy it now prices under $350.00, almost half the price of the Walther version. Magazines and parts are interchangeable with Walther and S&W. I think I am going to order one just for the novelty.
The FN polymer pistols consistently retail under $400. Unfortunately for my taste all that is available now is the DA/SA versions but they are great pistols for the $$$ and are an excellent alternative to the SIG P Series pistols.
Maybe I'm a gun snob. Maybe I can't stray away from the HS2000 "Croation Creation" days, but the XD is not for me.
Yeah, I mean if it had HS2000 stamped on its side and its original price of $300, then I could see how someone would decide to try it out, but when you consider that you can buy a great condition used iteration of the industry standard (G17/G19) for only slightly more, complete with arguably higher reliability and durability, ubiquitous and economical parts, magazines, holsters and almost idiot proof ease of being one's own armorer, than I really don't see the point.
The insult to injury comes when SA stamps "SA XD" on the slide and decides to jack up the price to $500. I also don't like the grip safety, but I suppose that it is necessary on the XD since its striker is like 99% precocked and is essentially a SA gun.
I am a 1911 and m&p guy but have much respect for glocks. As far as local prices go an xd9 full size is $500. A glock 19 rtf is $550. My goodness with just a little education why in the @#%$ would you not buy the Austrian over the Croatian?
Can anyone tell me what large PD, SO or Federal Agency runs the XD???
C4
This always comes up. I have to ask; who cares? By this logic, we should all carry Beretta 92s. Incidentally, the Houston PD and Harriss County Sherriffs departments both authorize the XD. Having said that, I doubt any large agency will ever adopt the XD platform in full force. Springfield is simply an importer, they are not in the same position as Glock/S&W/Sig who can give away pistols for free just to get the business.
Right. This would be referred to a clue. ;)
Onto the next question, what professional instructors use AND endorse the XD??
Here is the list of the ones that don't:
Vickers
Hackathorn
Rogers
Magpul Dynamics
The only instructor that I have even heard mentioning the XD is Clint Smith.
C4
You can add John Farnum and Tiger Magee to the XD list. And the last Hackathorn course I took he stated that he didn't like the XD, but the XDM was a much improved pistol that had all the bugs worked out of it. His comment about the XDM were actually better than those that he made about the M&P.
I am really close to being trespassed from the Cabela's gun counter. :D
Everytime I go I try to stay away from the always busy gun counter. I never take a number. I just hang and listen to the conversations between customers and the gun salesman.
Everytime a novice gun buyer (most) goes to the counter and says "whadya recommend.........", the answer is always "you need an XD", followed by "if it's not a 40 or a 45....."
First time gun buyer? XD40. Home defense? XD45. CCW? XD40C. Camp gun? XD40. Gun for the wife? XD40. My son's going into the police academy? XD45. Most "knock-down power" :rolleyes:? XD45 Tactical. I want a gun to carry while I ride my 4 wheeler to plink with, and just incase of a bear or mountain loin encounter? XD40...no shit? I saw a guy who specifically came in to look at a Taurus revolver. 10 minutes later, the same guy was filling out paperwork for a Springfield XD! Big people, little people, men, women, you need an XD. On and on and on.
I can't help it. I bite my tongue until it bleeds. I have steered away and "sold" the outdoorsman S&W revolvers, the first time shooters 9mm's and questioned why not the M&P or Glock. The salesman get pissed. Do they have incentives to sell these guns? People seem to be attracted to the "bells and whistles" of the XD. The word of the salesman is gospel. "Gun of the YEAR"!
This, by itself irritates me about the XD.
On the other hand, my Sergeant claims his XD9C is the best gun he's ever owned. A fellow officer carries an XD45 and thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. Two co-workers involved in OIS's (seperate) used XD's and made good hits. A few others own and carry them. These are personally owned guns in a department that issues Glocks.
Maybe I'm a gun snob. Maybe I can't stray away from the HS2000 "Croation Creation" days, but the XD is not for me.
the XD stuff has got to be the marketing! Springfield must spend a fortune just pimping that gun....I have a few friends who picked up XD's when they first came out...and dont have any problems with them, one of them has the HS2000 and its simple and gets the job done. But, Springfield has just overdone it, all the extra crap, stamping XD about 48586474 times on the gun just seem a bit much.
BTW, I am partial to the HS also....as my family name is Croatian:)
This always comes up. I have to ask; who cares? By this logic, we should all carry Beretta 92s. Incidentally, the Houston PD and Harriss County Sherriffs departments both authorize the XD. Having said that, I doubt any large agency will ever adopt the XD platform in full force. Springfield is simply an importer, they are not in the same position as Glock/S&W/Sig who can give away pistols for free just to get the business.
Well, I care and you should too. If Springfield XD pistols can't pass the rigorous testing process inflicted on pistols by the purchasing trials of a major department or agency why would you think their pistols would fare any better in your hands? Glock USA is an Importer, as is HK USA, no different that Springfield. The difference lies in the fact that these makers build a product that they can stand behind, a product fielded professionally by the tens of thousands. Spingfield will never, ever be able to make that claim.
Yeah, I the only ones I found I listed above and marked with (issued). The only Federal agency I found was the USDA. Go figure....
Oh, man... quit hating on the armed USDA agent. I have friends that do that, and they do have people who'd like to kill them. You'd be surprised how much heavy prison time crimes they investigate.
Plus, they secure most of our bio-war defense research facilities.
I found my XD40 to be really unpointable for my mitts. I played with my grip for a year to try to find a place where it would point, but finally gave up and sold it.
Well, I care and you should too. If Springfield XD pistols can't pass the rigorous testing process inflicted on pistols by the purchasing trials of a major department or agency why would you think their pistols would fare any better in your hands? Glock USA is an Importer, as is HK USA, no different that Springfield. The difference lies in the fact that these makers build a product that they can stand behind, a product fielded professionally by the tens of thousands. Spingfield will never, ever be able to make that claim.
No I don't care. Show me where the XD can't pass the trials. Glock USA and HK USA are subsidiaries of the parent companies and they are making guns in this country. Springfield merely has the rights to import and sell the HS line in the US.
TheSmiter1
04-30-10, 00:49
Can anyone tell me what large PD, SO or Federal Agency runs the XD???
C4
Lot's of agencies run .40 caliber Glocks. Those aren't very highly regarded here. So if a bunch of agencies used the XD, would that make them good? Just rhetorical.
Assy Mcgee
04-30-10, 02:44
i bought an XD45 midsize when they first came out. it was a disaster.
wouldn't feed any brand of FMJ without FTF's, and the accuracy was horrible. when the barrel was cold, it would get 6 inch groups, and they opened up beyond that the hotter the barrel got.
of course, after 700 rounds i called SA. they said it would be at least 6-8 weeks to get it back. as i received 3 months free range time with the purchase, sending it in for this long was not feasible.
obviously pissed, i promptly sold it at $200 loss for a glock21sf, which performed flawlessly.
that's my experience with xd's. will never buy another xd anything.
This always comes up. I have to ask; who cares? By this logic, we should all carry Beretta 92s. Incidentally, the Houston PD and Harriss County Sherriffs departments both authorize the XD. Having said that, I doubt any large agency will ever adopt the XD platform in full force. Springfield is simply an importer, they are not in the same position as Glock/S&W/Sig who can give away pistols for free just to get the business.
Here is how it works. Everyone competes in the large bids. The guns go through T&E. The XD never seems to win any big congrats. On top of that, I know that no XD has ever passed .Mil testing (when they were looking for a new pistol).
The way the game works (and SA does the same thing) is that they sell the guns for near or at their cost and then buy the pistols that the PD has. Then they offload them to some lard distributor (making them money that way (FYI).
C4
You can add John Farnum and Tiger Magee to the XD list. And the last Hackathorn course I took he stated that he didn't like the XD, but the XDM was a much improved pistol that had all the bugs worked out of it. His comment about the XDM were actually better than those that he made about the M&P.
I don't know much about the XDM and have NEVER heard Ken say anything positive about the XD or XDM, but will ask him about it.
C4
Lot's of agencies run .40 caliber Glocks. Those aren't very highly regarded here. So if a bunch of agencies used the XD, would that make them good? Just rhetorical.
You are right. The GEN 3 Glock in 40 is the WORST of the bunch. The problem is that they generally don't figure it out until you attach a metal light to it and shoot it. This is not a common practive for most.
Glock also did a fantastic job at covering up/dodging the GEN 3 40 issues for many years.
The GEN 4 Glocks in 40 appear to be much better than the GEN 3's.
C4
I really can't understand the logic of buying a XD at a premium price over Glock or a M&P.
I just went online and looked at a my cost on an XD. This is coming from a distr. and ANY FFL can get this price. Dealers that go direct to SA or have LE accounts can get much better pricing I am sure.
A bare bones XD in 40 is $421. An XDM is $521 (basic model).
The $421 price is really cheap (The M&P sells for $475 and the Glock is $440).
So the XD is at least $20 bucks cheaper and generally comes with some crappy holster and mag pouch. That $20 goes directly into the FFL's pocket (which is actually a lot of money). THIS IS why the XD will always be pushed over the Glock and M&P. Not because its better, but because the dealer can make more money.
I jumped over to GB to check what XDM's are selling for. It looks like the average is around $575ish. This puts it in the same price as a Glock and M&P. Why anyone would buy it over these two guns is 100% beyond me.
C4
I dont know how any pistol that survives a torture test like this could be considered junk.
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php
If some big name guys had tons of actual experience with em and endoresed them people would be on the XD's nuts, the same way many people jump at other manufacturers or parts.
Everybody on the forums from newb to pro has seen different pistol platforms fail and succeed, we of course take the "pros" word over the guy at the range who saw a Glock FTE over and over.
I bought an XD 9mm as my first handgun and in my 5000rd life Ive never had one issue, it has always gone bang.
Lots of the well known guys are obviously sponsored to run pistols, parts, etc, hell if I could shoot an HK or Sig for free or close to free Id endorse them over XD's also.
crowkiller
04-30-10, 07:06
My cousin bought an XD45 and said it was the best gun he ever had, "its safer than a Glock" he says. This is coming from the same cousin who would pack a Hi Point for his CCW gun over his Glock because "if you ever had to use it the police would confiscate it and you wouldnt be out as much money with the Hi Point".:rolleyes: Whatever! I give up trying to inform folks on quality guns.
I dont know how any pistol that survives a torture test like this could be considered junk.
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php
If some big name guys had tons of actual experience with em and endoresed them people would be on the XD's nuts, the same way many people jump at other manufacturers or parts.
Everybody on the forums from newb to pro has seen different pistol platforms fail and succeed, we of course take the "pros" word over the guy at the range who saw a Glock FTE over and over.
I bought an XD 9mm as my first handgun and in my 5000rd life Ive never had one issue, it has always gone bang.
Lots of the well known guys are obviously sponsored to run pistols, parts, etc, hell if I could shoot an HK or Sig for free or close to free Id endorse them over XD's also.
Torture tests are nice, but I generally don't pay much attention to them (good or bad) because it is a statistical sampling of one.
When we evaulate a pistol, we look at the internals of the gun (how well is it made), is it reliable and accurate. We are also interested in seeing HUNDREDS of guns over a time period.
You are right, if the professional instructors that I train with told me that they thought the XD was GTG, I would take another look at it. To date, they don't. These folks are also NOT sponsored by any gun company.
C4
I have seen plenty of XD’s in training classes. So far they all seem to run just fine. Some need to be lubed but that's a student issue. Would I buy one over a 9mm Glock, S&W M&P, HK, Sig, Berretta, etc – NO. But that still does not change the fact that they run just fine and students seem do fine with them.
Moose-Knuckle
04-30-10, 08:07
One thing no one has mentioned yet is the cost of mags compared to say GLOCK mags.
Also a member on another board runs a refinishing business on the side. He told me once that when you fully take down an XD to paint it that you have about twice as many parts as you do when you take a GLOCK down. That's twice as much stuff that can break, get lost, needs replaced, or repaired, etc...
You can add John Farnum and Tiger Magee to the XD list. And the last Hackathorn course I took he stated that he didn't like the XD, but the XDM was a much improved pistol that had all the bugs worked out of it. His comment about the XDM were actually better than those that he made about the M&P.
I got an e-mail from Ken about this topic. Here is what he had to say:
It is always of interest how people get totally wrong some of the things I say in a class concerning guns, drills, or history of this business. I never have said the XD or XDM is a gun I favor. I think that some of these guys who use XD or XDM like to change the facts and say that I like that stupid gun.
Well that about covers that.
C4
I have a xd-9 SC and xd-45, I like the grip angle on them but hate the back strap saftey. They run just fine when i shot them. I like my new Glock 17 better!:D
but hate the back strap saftey
What exactly is the issue? Is it uncomfortable? unreliable?
I've been thinking about the XD since I found out it has that type of safety mechanism.
I got an e-mail from Ken about this topic. Here is what he had to say:
Well that about covers that.
C4
I suggest that you go back and read what I posted he said. I don't think he will deny it. I never said that he favored it. By the way, this is my last comment in this thread. I fear that we are quickly approaching my dad can beat up your dad territory.
What exactly is the issue? Is it uncomfortable? unreliable?
I've been thinking about the XD since I found out it has that type of safety mechanism.
I don't care for it because it 1) isn't a value added part, and only offers more moving parts to break and possibly make the gun inoperable and 2) it doesn't allow for one to use their thumb on the back of the slide to block slide movement. Adding to #2, there's also a greater chance of the gun become inoperable should a 'non standard' grip be used for whatever reason. Maybe the hand is injured, maybe you're picking the gun up off the floor and you only have a half assed grip on it...
#2 is something most people probably don't consider or even care about, but I would think #1 is something people would be concerned over.
I've been to more then a few classes, and there's almost always an XD that has a failure. I've seen a few that didn't have issues.
I suggest that you go back and read what I posted he said. I don't think he will deny it. I never said that he favored it. By the way, this is my last comment in this thread. I fear that we are quickly approaching my dad can beat up your dad territory.
He called the XD, quote, "Stupid." That's a far cry from you claiming that he said, quote, "the XDM was a much improved pistol that had all the bugs worked out of it." Not making an argument out of it - just pointing out the obvious.
But, now that's it brought up, who talks like that in conversation? No one does. The fact that one would mention "bugs being worked out" signifies a response over something they are defending, which he clearly is not, meaning he's either lying (which I very, very highly doubt), or his statements are being twisted as was already stated.
I know/have known plenty of guys that run them, run them plenty, and run them just fine. IMO its just another functional polymer gun, doesnt stand out really in any distict way.
The awful trigger is why I dont prefer them myself.
XD's have an excuciatingly long amount of slack to be taken up between the reset point and the engagment point.
IMO the most important part of the gun after basic reliabilty is the trigger.
of course, the M&P IMO has a way too light reset out of the box for my liking, although some of the better trigger jobs deal with this well by increasing the strength of the trigger return spring(I think that how, dont own one, have shot some).
I don't care for it because it 1) isn't a value added part, and only offers more moving parts to break and possibly make the gun inoperable and 2) it doesn't allow for one to use their thumb on the back of the slide to block slide movement. Adding to #2, there's also a greater chance of the gun become inoperable should a 'non standard' grip be used for whatever reason. Maybe the hand is injured, maybe you're picking the gun up off the floor and you only have a half assed grip on it...
#2 is something most people probably don't consider or even care about, but I would think #1 is something people would be concerned over.
I've been to more then a few classes, and there's almost always an XD that has a failure. I've seen a few that didn't have issues.
I will agree that the grip safety doesnt really add anything.
I dont understand why they dont make them with a "speed bump".
Ive also seen plenty of GLOCKS fail in classes. All machines fail.
lovetohunt
04-30-10, 14:58
I will agree that the grip safety doesnt really add anything.
I dont understand why they dont make them with a "speed bump".
Ive also seen plenty of GLOCKS fail in classes. All machines fail.
Indeed, all machines fail. All of the handguns mentioned in this thread have failed at some point. Does this mean they are all junk? At some point in its life time, probably. Maintain your handgun and have the spare parts you think will wear out and you will be fine. Take into consideration what you may hear but don't be sold on a handgun because the instructor of the month likes or dislikes it. There will be a new instructor come along and tell you "X" brand is better than "Y" brand because........ What works for them may not work for you. Just because you own a $1000 handgun doesn't mean it will preform better than everything else.
SevenSixTwo
04-30-10, 16:02
I don't think its the fact that the XD is bad, its just not as good as a glock and shouldn't cost as much. It does have more parts and so doesn't share the same reliability potential as a glock. The bore axis is higer than a glock and an M&P so there is more felt recoil. The backstrap safety wasn't even a good idea when J.M. Browning used it (he put it there to satisfy Army desires) which is why he left it off of the Browning Hi Power. I have seen one fail firsthand, 3rd round out of the mag wouldn't go into battery, neither would the 7th round. A little lube and the issue was no more, but what the heck? If its meant to compete with a glock then it should be able to handle similar conditions to the glock.
The bottom line is that the glock is about as perfect a pistol as has ever been made. Sure the grip angle isn't right for everyone, or the grip width, or the trigger, or whatever. I agree, its not a one size fits all. But from a functional standpoint, there is no pistol that functions as well as a glock.
Lucky Strike
04-30-10, 16:11
I bought an XD after trying it out along with a Glock and M&P. The Glock quickly got crossed off the list as the grip angle was very annoying compared to the XD and M&P.
I went with the XD over the M&P because the M&P had one of the worst factory triggers I'd felt on a gun (and this wasn't just one particular M&P, it was dry firing 5 or so at different gun stores, shooting friends's and renting one at a range).
The XD's factory trigger was much better but it has a super long reset which kinda stunk. The M&P's have a long reset but also would have "false resets" where it'd feel like it was reseting but you'd still have to let the trigger out before it'd actually reset.
I got the XD and sent it off to Springer Precision for his combat/carry trigger job and now it feels awesome. It now has a nicely shortened and positive feeling reset. My friend has an M&P and he sent his off to Burwell for his trigger job and the Springer job is definitely the better of the two. I also had the grip chopped to subcompact size which I like since it's also my carry gun. With a pierce pinky extension on my mags I can have 13rounds,still have a 4" barrel, and am more discrete when I carry since the shorter grip doesn't print like a full size. When I want a "full size" grip when shooting steel challenge I just use 16 rounders with the extension sleeve.
Great gun and have used it in numerous training classes, IPSC matches, Speed Challenge matches, etc without any issue. Well I take that back I did have one box of Blazer Aluminum (I had shot about 400 rounds of aluminum stuff previously without issue) where I had two FTE's but since then I've stopped buying aluminum cased and I now reload my own stuff.
I've seen that a lot of agencies haven't adopted it but does anyone have proof of them failing these police dept's tests that Glocks and M&P's passed? I work with a lot of gov't contracts and in my experience price usually trumps all so I just assumed Glock and S&W were offering better deals. But i'm just one dude and there's a lot of other folks here with more knowledge.
I just know for me, having tried Glocks and M&P's there's no way I'd own one over my XD.
Now the HK P30 though is another story and I'm considering one for my next purchase.
I don't care for it because it 1) isn't a value added part, and only offers more moving parts to break and possibly make the gun inoperable and 2) it doesn't allow for one to use their thumb on the back of the slide to block slide movement. Adding to #2, there's also a greater chance of the gun become inoperable should a 'non standard' grip be used for whatever reason. Maybe the hand is injured, maybe you're picking the gun up off the floor and you only have a half assed grip on it...
#2 is something most people probably don't consider or even care about, but I would think #1 is something people would be concerned over.
I've been to more then a few classes, and there's almost always an XD that has a failure. I've seen a few that didn't have issues.
My thoughts exactly, but to quote on #2, with my Subcompact, i have grabbed it to chamber a round, and could not get the slide to come back, because my hand was place on the grip where it did not fully seat the back strap saftey. Not a big deal when just plinking but if in a real situation where i would need to pull the gun and had a faliure i could see a problem. Im sure you could train and be fine with it. In all i would just prefer not to have it on the gun at all.
I have used my XD 357 in more than a few fights and it worked great. I also carried a Glock in .40 around in Iraq because I hate the M9. I love my XD because after two weeks in the desert the glocks front sight disappeared(piece of plastic crap). Ended up using a white out line on the slide. Every day I asked permission to have my XD shipped to me. Now that I am home it goes with me everywhere.
I suggest that you go back and read what I posted he said. I don't think he will deny it. I never said that he favored it. By the way, this is my last comment in this thread. I fear that we are quickly approaching my dad can beat up your dad territory.
I did. I also asked him if he thought the XD or XDM were better than an M&P. I got a "no" on that one as well.
No one is trying to start a fight. You said that Ken made favorable comment about the XDM and that he liked aspects of it over the M&P. He did not seem to share this opinion.
C4
William B.
04-30-10, 21:51
I have used my XD 357 in more than a few fights and it worked great. I also carried a Glock in .40 around in Iraq because I hate the M9. I love my XD because after two weeks in the desert the glocks front sight disappeared(piece of plastic crap). Ended up using a white out line on the slide. Every day I asked permission to have my XD shipped to me. Now that I am home it goes with me everywhere.
Deleted
Did you acquire your .40 Glock or was it issued to you?
It was acquired from a confiscated weapons area. Helps to be good friends with the S4...
With modern handguns it's more about the operator than the machine.
From M. Ayoob's blog:
"The Evil Princess has lately become a fan of the Springfield Armory XD(m) and brought two, one tuned by the Springfield Custom Shop (she used it to place 3rd, beating most of the SWAT cops, in the house-clearing test at the National Tactical Conference)..."
Read post entire post here: http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/
By the way, I'm a G19 fan. I personally don't care for the XD's but I'm sure that in skiled hands they'll get the job done.
GermanSynergy
05-07-10, 20:05
I owned a HS 2000 many moons ago and promptly sold it for something better. I've never regretted that decision. FWIW I've never seen Croatian troops with XD's, but this was several years ago.
With modern handguns it's more about the operator than the machine.
From M. Ayoob's blog:
"The Evil Princess has lately become a fan of the Springfield Armory XD(m) and brought two, one tuned by the Springfield Custom Shop (she used it to place 3rd, beating most of the SWAT cops, in the house-clearing test at the National Tactical Conference)..."
Read post entire post here: http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/
By the way, I'm a G19 fan. I personally don't care for the XD's but I'm sure that in skiled hands they'll get the job done.
I could kill a bunch of people with a high point. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for a defensive weapon.
C4
I could kill a bunch of people with a high point. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for a defensive weapon.
C4
Wow! You are really thinking out of the box!:)
Wow! You are really thinking out of the box!:)
Thanks much. ;)
C4
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 23:28
I owned a HS 2000 many moons ago and promptly sold it for something better. I've never regretted that decision. FWIW I've never seen Croatian troops with XD's, but this was several years ago.
can you elaborate? i owned an XD and promptly sold it for something better ;). just curious.
thnx
With modern handguns it's more about the operator than the machine.
From M. Ayoob's blog:
"The Evil Princess has lately become a fan of the Springfield Armory XD(m) and brought two, one tuned by the Springfield Custom Shop (she used it to place 3rd, beating most of the SWAT cops, in the house-clearing test at the National Tactical Conference)..."
Read post entire post here: http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/
By the way, I'm a G19 fan. I personally don't care for the XD's but I'm sure that in skiled hands they'll get the job done.
I have tons of respect for Mas Ayoob and was raised on his magazine articles before the errornet was invented by Al Gore.
I clicked the link and read the article. I could not help but notice the add/link to Front Sight with a XD on it. Front Sight, where you can get a free XD "kit" with a class.
Not a fan of Iggy Piazza.
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