View Full Version : The Gun Safe Thread!
Jay Cunningham
04-30-10, 08:28
Let's talk big-ass steel vaults that hold guns!!
Let's hear experiences and recommendations! Provide some links and don't be afraid to post pics!
Don't get one with the electonic locks on them, yes some what easy but a pain later on.........................
Let's talk big-ass steel vaults that hold guns!!
Let's hear experiences and recommendations! Provide some links and don't be afraid to post pics!
Don't get one with the electonic locks on them, yes some what easy but a pain later on.........................
Truth!
Had a electronic go down last year. Dial for me from now on.
Nathan_Bell
04-30-10, 08:54
Most of what are sold as gun safes are actually rated as secured lockers.
If you are patient and get to know a few local locksmiths they might be able to hook you up with a big assed commercial safe for a smoking price. I got a Diebold commercial unit that is 6' tall x 42" wide and 20" deep for $450 that way.
Nathan_Bell
04-30-10, 09:13
Yup.
Secure lockers/cages behind a vault door is what I'm going with in the new hizzy.
Favorite setup I have seen.
Front porch is concrete top, and basemented beneath. The underporch area is on the outside of the supportwall basement.
So you have a nice little cave underneath the porch.
Vault door or just really heavy security/firedoor (as is the case of the one that I know of like this) for the pass through from basement to the underporch.
Good points of this is: you have righteous fire protection, you can hide it because most porches do not have a man-cave under them, its a concrete walled room.
Cons: Have to spend a good bit sealing and insulating as part of the room is above grade and you have temp variations, if your house doesn't have the proper grade and layout you cannot retrofit this.
Most of what are sold as gun safes are actually rated as secured lockers.
If you are patient and get to know a few local locksmiths they might be able to hook you up with a big assed commercial safe for a smoking price. I got a Diebold commercial unit that is 6' tall x 42" wide and 20" deep for $450 that way.
I second this. It is how I got my safe.
One thing to consider when placing your safe in your house, is what wall you're going to put it on. Putting it up against a perimeter wall may sound great, but if you have temperature variations, (ie. you turn the heat on in the winter, duhh) and your safe is up against a cold wall, it can induce sweating/condensation. It's not too bad if you live in a fairly dry area, or mitigate it with a dehumidifier, but I just chose to put my gun safe against an interior wall. (in the basement).
I've been looking more into building a vault, with plenty of insulation and fire protection against a three wall section of concrete, but need to check into just how cold/how much insulation it'll need on those three walls to reduce the above mentioned problem, so I can build out the 4th wall and put a vault door in. Been eyeing an old bank door (think 1880's) that they may be selling off in town, but not sure if it'll make sense overall being I want the room to be fireproof. It sure is a pretty door though. The vault would be about 12'x14'x8' when all said and done. This is probably a few years out though, as the vault door will probably go for a couple grand if/when they sell it.
I hate to hear about the electronic locks going down. Mine has been flawless on my Canon safe for the past nine years. Our local locksmith/ safecracker speaks highly of them. Going down would be a real bummer, but they sure are fast.
The safe market is full of really good stuff. You can have about anything you want. The internet is a great safe shopping tool.
Skip
Many of these real gun safes are far too expensive for me. For the price of one I could buy 2 or 3 more guns!:eek:
I rely on secure lockers and creativity to prevent theft.
Can't tell you how I'm "creative". Shit's OPSEC, son.:D
It's all smoke and mirrors to keep a potential burglar looking in all the wrong directions.
Favorite setup I have seen.
Front porch is concrete top, and basemented beneath. The underporch area is on the outside of the supportwall basement.
So you have a nice little cave underneath the porch.
Vault door or just really heavy security/firedoor (as is the case of the one that I know of like this) for the pass through from basement to the underporch.
Good points of this is: you have righteous fire protection, you can hide it because most porches do not have a man-cave under them, its a concrete walled room.
Cons: Have to spend a good bit sealing and insulating as part of the room is above grade and you have temp variations, if your house doesn't have the proper grade and layout you cannot retrofit this.
Any links to said type of door? I have a cave that is going to be "fortified" this summer and am looking for said type of door.
As already mentioned the commercial route is the way to go but be prepared to bust your balls at least once. I have two and don’t think that I have more than $500 in both. I paid $100 for one and traded a scope for the second. I have a 48" Diebold bank vault door in storage just waiting for the right location.
In the past one of the safes was stored in my detached garage. I never had a moisture problem nor did I have a humidity rod in it. I assume because these things are so air tight there are no issues. The other was nicely tucked away in my basement till I moved. Remember gravity can work against you! It went down the stairs easy with four guys I hired however it took five guys that use to be my friends and a large Bob Cat to pull it up and out.
Best way to go without a doubt and you can customize the interior yourself to suit your particular needs. Just put it where you want the first time.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0001.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0004.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0003.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0006.jpg
As already mentioned the commercial route is the way to go but be prepared to bust your balls at least once. I have two and don’t think that I have more than $500 in both. I paid $100 for one and traded a scope for the second. I have a 48" Diebold bank vault door in storage just waiting for the right location.
In the past one of the safes was stored in my detached garage. I never had a moisture problem nor did I have a humidity rod in it. I assume because these things are so air tight there are no issues. The other was nicely tucked away in my basement till I moved. Remember gravity can work against you! It went down the stairs easy with four guys I hired however it took five guys that use to be my friends and a large Bob Cat to pull it up and out.
Best way to go without a doubt and you can customize the interior yourself to suit your particular needs. Just put it where you want the first time.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0001.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0004.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0003.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww150/copperfield8910/2009_0416Image0006.jpg
I don't see why those safes were so hard to move....you've got them both on skate boards so you can just wheel them around :D
Grayling14
05-01-10, 04:48
Most of what are sold as gun safes are actually rated as secured lockers.
If you are patient and get to know a few local locksmiths they might be able to hook you up with a big assed commercial safe for a smoking price. I got a Diebold commercial unit that is 6' tall x 42" wide and 20" deep for $450 that way.
If someone can, please explain to me a true gun safe versus a secured locker. I am looking to buy a safe in the near future. Is it a legitimate question to ask how big/heavy a safe needs to be to deter the potential theft of the whole unit? (Yes, I know it would not be the easiest thing for thieves to do, but depending on the situation...). What about sinking lag bolts into the floor for those safes that are so designed?
montanadave
05-01-10, 08:56
If someone can, please explain to me a true gun safe versus a secured locker. I am looking to buy a safe in the near future. Is it a legitimate question to ask how big/heavy a safe needs to be to deter the potential theft of the whole unit? (Yes, I know it would not be the easiest thing for thieves to do, but depending on the situation...). What about sinking lag bolts into the floor for those safes that are so designed?
I've posted this link a time or two on similar threads but I still think it provides some valuable information for folks considering the purchase of a gun safe: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html
Because of structural limitations in my home, I chose a Zanotti Armor modular safe. While I realize this "safe" is actually a heavily secured gun locker and does not offer significant protection in case of fire, it works well for my situation, is well constructed and the fellow that owns and operates the company was terrific to work with.
A quick tour through YouTube will provide abundant evidence that very few gun safes offer fail-proof protection against a determined thief with proper tools and sufficient time. Short of building a bank vault in your home, if someone targets your collection and gains access to your home, you're likely to get ripped off. For myself and my relatively modest collection of firearms, a good gun safe, a home security system, a heat-activated fire sprinkler on a conveniently located water pipe above my safe, and homeowner's insurance offer about as much protection as I can reasonably provide.
After a lot of research I ended up purchasing an Amsec BF series (http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/BF_Series_Gun_Safes/) RSC.
http://www.safes4you.com/images/D/BF6030CMGR.jpg
They offer fairly thick steel vs. many of the other RSC offering out there, and good fire proofing which is in theory supposed to offer 90 minutes of protection at 1200something degrees and also is NOT made of gypsum board/drywall so will hopefully NOT turn to pulp and slump to the bottom of the safe in a burn.
Since I couldn't swing going with a true TL rated safe (looked for a used TL, albeit not that hard, with no luck) I figured this was the most RSC bang for my buck given my minimum acceptable level of security and fire resistance.
I have no illusions that a dedicated tool attack with plenty of time wouldn't get in or that a total unchecked burn down (forest fire, FD occupied elsewhere, etc. - we're rural) wouldn't destroy the contents. However I feel that it's an adequate amount of protection vs. your average or even fairly well equipped burglar and given the opportunity to get water on the safe's area, enough of a fire rating to hopefully save the contents in a burn down.
With the safe bolted to the slab and concealed I feel quite confident in its security, short of guys who know what they're doing/looking for showing up with a plasma cutter or something I'm not too worried.
I very satisfied with my Amsec - the thing is built like a tank, the interior is nicely finished and laid out, the door rides smoothly and easily... no complaints. For anyone in the same boat as me who wants a fair amount of burglary and fire protection but can't quite swing a TL rated safe and doesn't have a good room to throw a vault door on I would highly recommend the BF series.
@grayling - I forget the exact specs but basically the difference between a RSC and a real safe (TL rated) is that the real safes actually have a guaranteed rating to stand up to professional tool attack with all kinds of crazy shit (think dynamite) whereas even a very nice RSC can be gotten into with the right tools fairly quickly (if not noisily).
I responded to a burglary once where an American Security safe had been cut open. Ignoring the door (the strongest part) the badguy took a reciprocating saw that he brought with him across the top and down both sides and cut the entire front of the safe off about 2 inches behind the door. The only thing inside were a few Weatherby hunting rifles and high dollar scopes so nothing was taken. (they were looking for handguns which they found elsewhere in the house) I'm not sure what model safe it was but you could clearly see a layer of sheetrock between the inner and outer steel layers so it was a fire resistant model. We interviewed them all seperately after figuring out who they were-all 3 said they were inside less than 5 minutes.
What I learned- fortify the area around the safe so nothing can be accessed but the door. That takes longer to defeat. Get the thickest steel (body and door) that you can. Get insurance.
-Interesting anecdote: The homeowner has a doberman pinscher which he sometimes takes to work. They knew the dog was not there that day. Hence, my 2 gunsafes:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/jjhhuurrtt/DSC01257.jpg
and
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn2/jjhhuurrtt/DSC01261.jpg
Jhurt nice looking pups :cool:. You make a very valid point by fortifying the area around the safe. Interesting though that it was an AmSec safe. My friend who is a Locksmith suggested that I get one of the AmSec because it was one of the best safes out there money could buy. But that just goes to show that if someone has the proper tools and motivation they can get by anything...
I bought this Stack-On safe at Dick's Sporting Goods for about $900 on sale before Christmas. I realize that it is Stack-On and it can't compete with the $3000 "real" safes and bank vault doors some guys have, but it does weigh 600 pounds empty and it barely fit in my office with the door removed from the hinges. I'm sure a determined thief could get inside, maybe with a sawzall through the back or side, but it is the best deterent I can afford and it calms the wife down with regard to guns and kids in the house.
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af237/14point5/Hardware/safe.jpg
Oh, and the rated number of long guns that can fit in a safe definitely does not apply to AR or AK type rifles.
Nathan_Bell
05-02-10, 06:24
If someone can, please explain to me a true gun safe versus a secured locker. I am looking to buy a safe in the near future. Is it a legitimate question to ask how big/heavy a safe needs to be to deter the potential theft of the whole unit? (Yes, I know it would not be the easiest thing for thieves to do, but depending on the situation...). What about sinking lag bolts into the floor for those safes that are so designed?
I have my commercial Diebold, (actually looks a LOT like the one that crosgun has on the right in his pics) so it is tool rated.
My in house is a Fort Knox Sweetbabyjesusthisthingisheavy model, it is UL rated but I forget how long it is rated fro fire and tool. It is stupidly heavy almost 1 ton empty. It is squat enough in design that even without floor bolts it is a MFer to tip. Very expensive unit, IIRC i paid around 3500 12 years ago.
Willbrink had a pretty informative thread on some of the specifications to look for in GD here a few weeks/months(?) ago.
I have an interresting safe and will get some pics...found an add in the local paper and although I stole the safe, I ended up paying almost as much to move it. Called ROBUST by Brishoff and was mad in South Africe. Best guess it was for holding diamonds / jewelly. It's TL-30 rated and the first moving attempt broke the winch as the dolly's wheels plowed into the asphault. They ended up coming back with about 8 guys and a 4 wheeler. Best guess is 4000-5000lbs. I swear the door has to be at least 500 itself and the hinges are the size of a beer can. Tried doing some research but really didn't come up with anything. Walls are 4-5" thick and some guess have asbestos sandwiched in between the steel due to the ul rating??
I have an interresting safe and will get some pics...
Is it this: http://www.empiresafe.com/220/bischoff (see brochure at bottom of page)?
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