View Full Version : Arizona Law against illegals are you for or against it?
Dragon Slayer
05-01-10, 11:22
Please give us your opinion for the new law passed in Arizona are you for it or against it or maybe you don't care either way.
I am strongly for it.
BaldEagle323
05-01-10, 11:27
I am for it. While it's a shame that AZ has had to do this as the Federal government should have done something a long time ago. It's a NATIONAL border, making it more than just AZ's problem
230therapy
05-01-10, 11:31
It's just another tool. The police aren't going to run around asking for papers. It's based upon reasonable suspicion. So, if the person gets stopped for speeding and the person does not present ID, then they're going to get hauled in anyway. They're now allowed to check for immigration status. That's it.
I have seen statements in the news to the effect that illegals are getting ready to move out. Excellent! They should go to California.
What's just plain stupid is that NO Arizona governor has deployed the local National Guard to the border. There's no excuse for this; they could stop 99% of the cross-border traffic in a week. The Minute Men did so; why can't the Arizona National Guard?
SpookyPistolero
05-01-10, 11:33
I find myself torn on the issue. On the one hand, there is a real and present danger from thousands of illegal immigrants entering our country. They eating our resources and overburdening our systems, and swaying our weak two-party system. They also often end up working harder than many of their American-born counterparts. On the other hand, the AZ law is unconstitutional in its empowerment of police to search and seize at will, based on arbitrary rules.
All I do know is that if the federal government got off their ass and took steps to solve the problem, AZ wouldn't have to be a scapegoat and wouldn't be left to their own devices.
I do not think the AZ law is asking police officers to do anything they would not already do- if they have a reasonable suspicion to act on their suspicion- pretty mcuh the basis of old fashioned police work
It's just another tool. The police aren't going to run around asking for papers. It's based upon reasonable suspicion. So, if the person gets stopped for speeding and the person does not present ID, then they're going to get hauled in anyway. They're now allowed to check for immigration status. That's it.
Unfortunately up until now, many police in AZ have tended to just let illegals go (for issues like speeding) rather than haul them in, since they didn't consider illegals to be their problem. Now they finally have to.
What's just plain stupid is that NO Arizona governor has deployed the local National Guard to the border. There's no excuse for this; they could stop 99% of the cross-border traffic in a week. The Minute Men did so; why can't the Arizona National Guard?
I agree, the AZ Governor should mobilize the NG to deal with our Federally-undefended border. That should be the next step. Our national border being violated by foreign nationals isn't a police problem, it is a military one.
Its already illegal to be an illegal alien, and to tell LEO that they can't ask or verify the status of someone under investigation for an additional crime is a travesty.
I don't support stopping people on the street and asking for their papers. However,I see this as no different than checking someone for warrants, drivers status or their criminal background which is something I do every day while investigating crimes.
Cascades236
05-01-10, 13:42
Its already illegal to be an illegal alien, and to tell LEO that they can't ask or verify the status of someone under investigation for an additional crime is a travesty.
I don't support stopping people on the street and asking for their papers. However,I see this as no different than checking someone for warrants, drivers status or their criminal background which is something I do every day while investigating crimes.
+1
I mentioned it in another thread but it's worth repeating. I arrested a DUI one night who provided a bogus social security card, but the department I work for doesn't allow for me to check his "status" or call for someone else to do so. In my opinion, that's the perfect example of where this Arizona law would be used.
On the other hand, the AZ law is unconstitutional in its empowerment of police to search and seize at will, based on arbitrary rules.
Your statement that police will be empowered "to search and seize at will" is just flat wrong.
Edited to add: I am for legal immigration and a highly controlled guest worker program, but I am totally against illegal immigration and would like to see all (no race specified) illegals out of our country.
I went through the "process" of having my wife(German) legally get a green card and later on citizenship...illegal's are breaking the law, I don't get all the arguments on their behalf???
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-01-10, 14:12
Treason is only a federal crime correct? Should a beat cop turn a blind eye to someone with plans to overthrow the national government?
I do think it is a horrible idea in that a lot of the illegals are said to be heading to Colorado. Thanks for that.
I can't stand illegal immigrants. I have meet many USAF members that did the right thing and enlisted or became an officer and got their citizenship legally. They are becoming a productive American citizen.
In my squadron we are joking about the next big mission. The Border Wars.
I'm sorta for it, certianly not against it, but to me it really just another lame act...
""We're going to make it Illegal to be Illegal"""...
STOP I say, Stop.... Or Or Or, I'll Say STOP Again...
Its not going to make a difference... So you catch one and throw'em over the fence, 6 more Climb right back over and under about a half hour later...
Want to make a differnce stop what they come over for...
Stop the Hand outs (No School, No Welfare, No Medicare, no nothing)
Stop Business from Hiring Illegals
Start with those, then I can give a few more...
threefeathers
05-01-10, 17:26
I opposed the first draft but support strongly the final document.
Your statement that police will be empowered "to search and seize at will" is just flat wrong.
Edited to add: I am for legal immigration and a highly controlled guest worker program, but I am totally against illegal immigration and would like to see all (no race specified) illegals out of our country.
Exactly. This is not the Doomsday Device the hysterical pro-illegal immigration side proclaims it to be.
Assy Mcgee
05-01-10, 20:59
for. :cool:
I support this law but it really wasn't necessary to pass another law because we already have a federal law that covers this. They just need to enforce it.
It drives me nuts hearing ignorant people, on the TV or radio, talk about immigration reform. It's like they don't know the difference between Illegal Immigrant and Immigrant. The key word in Illegal Immigrant is "Illegal." One of the conservative pundits usually points this fact out and then the liberal talking heads act like a set of devil horns just popped out of his/her head.
230therapy
05-01-10, 21:51
The Feds were not enforcing the law. If Arizona does go to Federal court, they need to make the correct arguments. If they argue "Feds were not doing their job", then Arizona will lose. This is not how the delegation of powers to the Federal government from the states operates.
The states have just as much authority to enforce their borders as the Federal government.
This law just gives Arizona law enforcement the ability to look into the backgrounds of people they detain. There is nothing that I can see that is a violation of the Constitution. LE still has to demonstrate the reasons for searches and detainment.
They cannot just walk around grabbing people...that would last about 10 seconds in court. The law would then be useless.
I think the effect of this bill will be to motivate illegals in Arizona to seek greener pastures...like California.
Its already illegal to be an illegal alien, and to tell LEO that they can't ask or verify the status of someone under investigation for an additional crime is a travesty.
I don't support stopping people on the street and asking for their papers. However,I see this as no different than checking someone for warrants, drivers status or their criminal background which is something I do every day while investigating crimes.
Question for the LEO's: I was told only ICE can detain and deport illegals. A regular street cop can not. If this is true it really ties the hands of law enforcement. Select agencies (like State Police etc.)have acquired the capability by taking a class to obtain whatever certification is needed to be able to do this. Is this true?
I am for the law. Those that are against the law are the same people that when someone is arrested for a crime. They think that it is inhuman to put the person in jail, but rather give that person home confinement or classes for their problems.
Eddiesketti
05-01-10, 22:24
People here illegally have no rights given to legal citizens. The next thing to do is take away incentives to come here illegally. No plopping out kids on the border to make them anchors. No aid for people who broke the law. Places like Arizona stopping the flow of illegals is a great thing. All the border states should follow suit. The other states will not have such an influx once the head of the snake is cut off.
CarlosDJackal
05-01-10, 22:53
I'm an immigrant and I support the law. I had to follow the established process in order to become a "Green Card Holder". Why some of these people think that they are entitled to be given the same credentials without taking the same steps as I did, is beyond me.
CarlosDJackal
05-01-10, 23:10
...What's just plain stupid is that NO Arizona governor has deployed the local National Guard to the border. There's no excuse for this; they could stop 99% of the cross-border traffic in a week. The Minute Men did so; why can't the Arizona National Guard?
Simple: cost. Do you have any idea what the cost would be to activate and maintain such a force indefinitely? Also, given the GWOT OPTEMPO, you would put such a pressure on the AZ-NG that it would probably make it very hard for them to respond to Natural Disasters.
IMHO, they need to activate the unorganized militia and put them at the border in 1-week shifts. This would basically be any able-bodied male who are not serving in any military organizzation. Use them as teh eyes and ears and have specialized units of the AZ-ARNG and/or State Police respond to their reports. JM2CW.
I am of two minds about the law. The reasons behind it are understandable. The federal government is shirking their duty and the people of AZ are tired of having to bear the burden. So to their line of thinking if they are being abandoned by the federal government then they have to fend for themselves.
Is the law constitutional? I don't think so since immigration and border security is reserved for the federal government. So the people of AZ have been backed into a corner, they had to take some sort of action. I can't blame them for that. I also thinks its BS that some agencies wont allow their officers / deputies to do a immigration check with probable cause.
If the federal government feels that they have egg on their face or their panties are in a twist over this then good. Instead of trotting out hyperbolic claims of racism or trotting out false lines about how this will interfere with Federal anti drug law enforcement operations, maybe they should do their job for once (I.e. stopping or chasing down illegal aliens). It's a rather simple solution. Will they do it? No. So now this can go to the SCOTUS.
I support this law but it really wasn't necessary to pass another law because we already have a federal law that covers this. They just need to enforce it.
The way the Bill is written is that it requires local LE to enforce the existing US Code. Which makes most of the national-level hair pulling that much more amusing.
It drives me nuts hearing ignorant people, on the TV or radio, talk about immigration reform. It's like they don't know the difference between Illegal Immigrant and Immigrant. The key word in Illegal Immigrant is "Illegal."
Indeed, like there is a difference between sex and rape.
Strongly pro - about time the States started exercising their authority. Fed.gov has been asleep at the wheel for a long time when it comes to protecting our borders.
Let us not forget that, per our Constitution, any powers of the Federal government are granted by the States. As such, the States have the right to act in their own defense when the Federal government fails.
For those against enforcement of our immigration laws, try entering Mexico illegally and see what happens to you when you're discovered without proper documentation. You sure as hell won't be getting a free education, health care, etc.
For those against enforcement of our immigration laws, try entering Mexico illegally and see what happens to you when you're discovered without proper documentation. You sure as hell won't be getting a free education, health care, etc.
I would be willing to try it if Shakira will come visit me in prison.
I strongly support Arizona's new law.
Something I'v not heard anyong mention, is the gang, M13, who sent hundreds of their members across the border. Also, it's the preferred infiltration route for Al Quida to enter the US.
IMO this is a National Security issue and it's apparent that the current administration has no interest in National Security.
RogerinTPA
05-02-10, 08:28
I support the new AZ Law, however, they didn't go far enough. They should have made the "Hiring" of Illegals, a $20K fine per head, plus jail time, for business owners, if they are found on the premises. That, in and of it self, would have reversed the flow.
CarlosDJackal
05-02-10, 08:34
...Is the law constitutional? I don't think so since immigration and border security is reserved for the federal government. So the people of AZ have been backed into a corner, they had to take some sort of action. I can't blame them for that. I also thinks its BS that some agencies wont allow their officers / deputies to do a immigration check with probable cause...
I disagree. Illegal Immigration is not just a Federal problem. Besides, this is not the first time a State enacted a statute that is a direct copy of Federal Law.
This is the same misinformation I hear from my left-leaning co-workers who would have supported this law whole-heartedly if their mis-sihah had publicly endorsed it (NOTE: I'm not implying that you're one of them).
If AZ was defining what constitutes "illegal immigration" outside of Federal Law I would agree. But what this law is doing is stating that they (AZ) is complimenting the Federal Law with a statute of their own by stating that it is now against AZ State Law for an illegal alien to be in AZ.
This is no different for them passing a similar law against illegal drugs or against a crime that was committed outside of their borders. Can you imagine how things would be if one State never passed a law against acts of kidnapping or murder that happend in another State or on Federal land?
Not only that, the bill clearly states that the standard that must be used to identify if someone is an illegal alien is based entirely on the current Federal Law. It clearly states that LEOs can only apply this law in the course of making contact for another violation or incident. Much like seatbelt laws that are in place in a lot of States. In these cases you cannot be cited for not wearing your seatbelt. You can only be cited if you get pulled over for another violation (IE: speeding, etc.) and you are caught not wearing the seatbelt after the fact.
I think it's a good law that seems to be well written. But as with any laws, it still has to ratified by Case Law. JM2CW.
CarlosDJackal
05-02-10, 08:39
I support the new AZ Law, however, they didn't go far enough. They should have made the "Hiring" of Illegals, a $20K fine per head, plus jail time, for business owners, if they are found on the premises. That, in and of it self, would have reversed the flow.
I agree with a caveat. This should only be applicable if they can prove that the business owner had conscious knowledge that the employees were in fact, illegal or if they did not investigate any suspicion of it.
The reason I say this is I've met business owners who followed Federal Law and reported possible violations of this statute but was told by INS not to worry about it. Since they could not spend the time and money to perform a thorough investigation, they had no real reccourse but to do nothing. JM2CW.
230therapy
05-02-10, 09:00
Is the law constitutional? I don't think so since immigration and border security is reserved for the federal government.
This is not true.
The states have delegated authority to the Federal government; they have not given it up. The state does have the power to enforce the state's borders.
If, during an investigation, I can't identify you, we have a problem. This could be as simple as a traffic stop or a shooting investigation. Regardless of skin color, nationality or language spoken, it is a problem.
Daily I encouter people who have no ID and basically do not exist to our government based on the info they provide. Sadly, most times I have to just accept it and take their word. They are not always hispanic either.
Resident criminals take advantage of this all too often.
Example: Traffic stop on an improper registration. Open container (beer) in car. This is something I never would book someone into jail for. The driver, "Jorge ******" does not speak english, has no ID and reports coming here from Mexico 2 weeks ago. I know he is lying. He has gang tats I recognize from California.
I call bullshit and arrest him. At the jail he is ID'd by prints and tats as a US Citizen and fugitive from California. A little more reseach shows he had been stopped and cited numerous times under his alias, posing as an Illegal Alien.
This happens all the time.
I fully support Arizona. Hopefully it will force Washington to pull their heads out of their ass and secure our borders. Otherwise, any new law enforcing immigration, in my opinion, is useless.
In the mean time, it is going to drasctically increase risks to LEO's, wether they are enforcing immigration or not. I have already witnessed it this week.
All these idiots spouting off about "racial profiling" should come ride with me for a week, then submit their ****ing righteous opinions.
The act of breaking into the country does NOT give one constitutional rights.
I say treat them as we would be treated if we illegally entered their country.
Dragon Slayer
05-02-10, 09:56
I am not anti immigration by far, for that matter I am an immigrant, I came here 35 years ago and became a US citizen. I am very much pro immigration through legal channels and I think legal immigration should be expanded if we need the work force.
The way I look at it is I have a right to protect my home from home invasion because the local police can not protect me and my home, when you apply that to Arizona the state has the right to protect itself from an invasion of criminals, illegals, terrorists, drug runners if the feds refuse to do it.
There is nothing that bothers me more then to see the demonstrations like the ones that took place yesterday of thousands of people screaming (specially the ones with Mexican flags) that there is a given right to people that have come here illegally to become legal and the idiots in the media or entertainment industry or anywhere else that support them.
What I want to hear is from people that think this law is unconstitutional because they think that no body has the right to ask you for papers to prove that you are legally in this country and you have no reason to provide any papers.
Where are the Libertarians and some others on this issue?
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-10, 11:17
There is nothing that bothers me more then to see the demonstrations like the ones that took place yesterday of thousands of people screaming (specially the ones with Mexican flags) that there is a given right to people that have come here illegally to become legal and the idiots in the media or entertainment industry or anywhere else that support them.
Were their any Canadian flags? ;)
Just wait till Napolitano starts to release the people turned over to feds.
Dragon Slayer
05-02-10, 13:33
Were their any Canadian flags? ;)
Just wait till Napolitano starts to release the people turned over to feds.
You mean Janet Incompetano as some even in her department call her?;):D
Belmont31R
05-02-10, 13:53
I am of two minds about the law. The reasons behind it are understandable. The federal government is shirking their duty and the people of AZ are tired of having to bear the burden. So to their line of thinking if they are being abandoned by the federal government then they have to fend for themselves.
Is the law constitutional? I don't think so since immigration and border security is reserved for the federal government. So the people of AZ have been backed into a corner, they had to take some sort of action. I can't blame them for that. I also thinks its BS that some agencies wont allow their officers / deputies to do a immigration check with probable cause.
If the federal government feels that they have egg on their face or their panties are in a twist over this then good. Instead of trotting out hyperbolic claims of racism or trotting out false lines about how this will interfere with Federal anti drug law enforcement operations, maybe they should do their job for once (I.e. stopping or chasing down illegal aliens). It's a rather simple solution. Will they do it? No. So now this can go to the SCOTUS.
Constitution says Congress has the power to establish uniform rules of naturalization not that FedGov is the only people on Earth who can enforce naturalization laws.
There is also nothing in the prohibitions on states that says a state cannot enforce naturalization laws, or enact their own laws.
Also SCOTUS has already ruled that profiling is ok as long as its not the only source of 'cause'. So if an LEO is 5 miles from the border, and sees a truck with Mexicans who look like they just got done walking 50 miles through the desert they would have probable cause. They would use the same type of judgment BP uses, and do you think BP would stop a truck full of scruffy Mexicans 5 miles from the border? They can use a variety of occurrences to draw a conclusion but race cannot be the sole reason. If you go through a BP checkpoint they use the same set of rules to pull people over, and check them out more closely. Ive lived close to BP checkpoints most of my life, and this is exactly how they operate. A white guy in a clean car is not going to get pulled over. A truck full of Mexicans most likely is. Hell one time a family friend of ours from Holland came to visit, and we took him to TJ. He forgot his passport, and they just waved him through after asking if we were all American citizens. We just told the agent he is visiting us, and forgot his passport. He said remember it next time, and have a nice day. Race has always been an issue on the border, and is used by FedGov every single day, and has been for decades.
And always remember this country is a collection of sovereign states. When our country was founded it was "These United States". A state is its own entity just the same as the "State of Israel".
Wow! It's now illegal to be an illegal alien in AZ...makes too much sense. Want to fix health care, follow AZ lead and stop giving free health care to those who are not here legally.
I spoke with a Hispanic American on Wed. whose family came to this area in 1516 AD, he was totally in favor of closing our nations borders to all illegal entry, and send all illegals' back to their homeland. I am of Irish and Native American descent, and I have to agree with him in all respects in this matter.
I heard an analysis on the radio that approx $20K per year in social benefits would be provided to the average illegal alien if made a citizen because they hold low paying jobs and therefore qualify for ... section 8 housing, food stamps, etc. etc. etc.
Bulldog7972
05-03-10, 07:13
Were their any Canadian flags? ;)
Just wait till Napolitano starts to release the people turned over to feds.
Then don't turn the over to the Fed's. Arizona should ship them back themselves. This reliance on the Federal government should stop!
ForTehNguyen
05-03-10, 07:50
abolish the minimum wage, I guarantee you employers will hire legal citizens again and there will be more jobs overall. One of the main reasons they hire illegals is because its too damn expensive to pay a legal citizen because of BS min wage laws because most of those jobs arent worth $7.25/hour. Min wage laws give incentive to hire illegals over legals. I'm starting to think legal citizens on welfare created another unintended consequence also. There's no way in hell some people will take these low skilled manual labor jobs when you can mooch on welfare instead. To me that basically creates a giant void in low skilled low education jobs, which the illegals swooped in to fill.
The AZ law does not conflict with the federal law so there isn't a problem there. I think racial profiling has been covered in the newest version of the law so no problem there. I hope it stands up in court. Many of the illegals say they are headed for Texas. I love Texas but fighting illegal immigration is not where they are strong.
I love Texas but fighting illegal immigration is not where they are strong.
This is right up Rick Perry's play book. I look forward to our own version of of this law soon.
This is right up Rick Perry's play book. I look forward to our own version of of this law soon.
I hope you are right.
LegalAlien
05-03-10, 10:48
I am strongly in favor of this law!
As an immigrant with a 'foreign' accent, I had a long discussion with an associate a few days ago, whether this would be considered 'profiling'.
He asked me how I would react if I was detained/asked by an LE for proof of legal residency, because I 'sounded' different. My response was, that I always carry my green card with me and I would have no qualms about the question. However, if I had done nothing illegal, or give cause for an LE to pay attention to me, I would not expect to be subject to any questioning on my residency status.
Would it infringe my rights? Strict interpertation, yes. BUT, only if I was detained for reason of having a 'strange accent'.
(and just an FYI, as a legal resident I have almost all (except for voting) rights in this lovely country as a full blown citizen)
However, an out of control situation calls for strong enforcement. Unfortunately the hispanic citizens and hispanic legal aliens might get targeted. BUT, if they have not done anything wrong to cause an LEO to stop/detain/question them, then under this law (as well as the Federal Immigration Laws) it would be business as usual. The Law is very clear that residency status questioning by an LEO can only be done, if there is a reasonable suspicion, after being detained for another legal infringement.
And on a final note, the Mexican Immigration Laws are far worse and much more restrictive than any US Federal or AZ state laws. These illegal scum have nothing to complain about!! Hell in Mexico a resident can make a citizens arrest of a suspected illegal and hand them over to the Federales. SHould be the same thing here.
For years the US Senators from Arizona have done nothing...Spend time on the border watching for illegals crossing into the U.S. and you'll see the devastation in our desert from trash and filth..The coyotes don't give a shit wheteher these people reach America, it's all about the money, the same reason illegals come here. And with them is crime, death and disease. THE LAW IS CLEAR, NO TRESPASSING!!!!!
BRAVO1
ForTehNguyen
05-03-10, 12:03
Cafferty laying down the law, surprising to see this on CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBoiupXjzc
Cafferty laying down the law, surprising to see this on CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBoiupXjzc
I usually find Cafferty refreshing. Makes me wonder why CNN keeps him.
You would think the issue of illegal immigration would be clear-cut...
Being a citizen of a foreign country who came here through illegal means you have no constitutional rights in this country and should be dealt with as a criminal.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/01/suspected-illegal-immigrants-caught-search-ariz-deputys-attackers/
PHOENIX -- Authorities have captured 17 suspected illegal immigrants in southern Arizona as they continued their manhunt Saturday for smugglers who they say shot and wounded a sheriff's deputy in a remote desert area 50 miles south of Phoenix.
Three of those captured overnight Friday matched descriptions from the wounded Pinal County deputy and were being questioned Saturday, sheriff's Lt. Tamatha Villar said. The deputy was released from the hospital, and was recovering at home.
The shooting came amid a growing national debate over the state's new law cracking down on illegal immigration. A backlash over the law has erupted, with civil rights activists, concerned it will lead to racial profiling, calling for protests and boycotts.
Criticism of the law was sure to figure prominently at dozens of immigrants rights marches and rallies planned for Saturday across the nation, including one set for the grounds of the Arizona state Capitol.
The new law's passage came amid increasing anger in Arizona about violence, drug smugglers and illegal immigration drop houses. The issue gained renewed attention a month ago when a southern Arizona rancher was shot and killed by a suspected illegal border crosser.
video
Deputy Shot In ArizonaAlleged immigrant shoots Ariz. deputy
Arizona politicians called Friday's shooting an outrage and urged the federal government to do more to secure the U.S.-Mexico border.
The violence "should show the rest of the country what we Arizonans have known for too long -- the unsecured border poses a very real and very immediate danger," said U.S. Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, a Democrat whose district includes part of Pinal County.
On Friday afternoon, Deputy Louie Puroll, 53, was patrolling near Interstate 8 when he came upon a stash of marijuana bales and five suspected smugglers. At least one of the suspects opened fire on him, tearing a chunk of skin from his back.
Puroll radioed in that he was shot, setting off a frantic hourlong search for the deputy in the remote desert, Villar said.
The area is a well-known smuggling corridor for drugs and illegal immigrants headed from Mexico to Phoenix and the U.S. interior.
State and federal law enforcement agencies deployed helicopters and scores of officers to search a 100-square-mile zone for the suspects. The Arizona Republic reported that officials said more than one of the choppers came under fire during the manhunt on Friday.
Puroll, a 15-year department veteran, had been on the lookout for smugglers when he discovered the suspected smugglers, two armed with rifles, authorities said.
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 14:34
abolish the minimum wage, I guarantee you employers will hire legal citizens again and there will be more jobs overall. One of the main reasons they hire illegals is because its too damn expensive to pay a legal citizen because of BS min wage laws because most of those jobs arent worth $7.25/hour. Min wage laws give incentive to hire illegals over legals. I'm starting to think legal citizens on welfare created another unintended consequence also. There's no way in hell some people will take these low skilled manual labor jobs when you can mooch on welfare instead. To me that basically creates a giant void in low skilled low education jobs, which the illegals swooped in to fill.
Lowering the tax burden on businesses would do a lot more for a business wanting to hire a citizen at minimum wage than doing away with the minimum wage while keeping the tax burden high.
ForTehNguyen
05-03-10, 15:14
Lowering the tax burden on businesses would do a lot more for a business wanting to hire a citizen at minimum wage than doing away with the minimum wage while keeping the tax burden high.
I dont see how their corporate taxes are any different when hiring illegals vs legals. I still agree that lowering taxes overall will increase employment. I still think min wage is a greater driving factor for hiring illegals. Higher taxes just chase the jobs out of the country completely.
Cafferty laying down the law, surprising to see this on CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBoiupXjzc
This is awesome, especially coming from CNN.
bubabootie
05-03-10, 15:24
i'm all for states rights. If it isnt blatantly unconstitutional i'm all for it. And hey, if the federal government wants to sit on their hands for dozens of years then i'm all for states seizing the initiative.
Cafferty laying down the law, surprising to see this on CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBoiupXjzc
That was uplifting coming from someone respectable on CNN, thanks for posting. Hope they don't fire Jack now for such blasphemy.
Its already illegal to be an illegal alien, and to tell LEO that they can't ask or verify the status of someone under investigation for an additional crime is a travesty.
I don't support stopping people on the street and asking for their papers. However,I see this as no different than checking someone for warrants, drivers status or their criminal background which is something I do every day while investigating crimes.
Right. Police come into people on a daily basis and ask to see their drivers license and ask them questions (in all the States).
The AZ law is no different.
C4
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 15:54
I dont see how their corporate taxes are any different when hiring illegals vs legals. I still agree that lowering taxes overall will increase employment. I still think min wage is a greater driving factor for hiring illegals. Higher taxes just chase the jobs out of the country completely.
No Im saying it would be easier for a business to be able to handle American minimum wage workers pay if that business didn't have such a high tax burden. Lower taxes would offset the higher pay a legal American citizen gets over hiring an illegal under the table. Then businesses wouldnt be able to bitch about hiring illegals because they cant afford 7.25 an hour for an American.
If the LE's are going to be held liable for enforcement, I wish the AZ legislature should have helped them out a bit by being more specific about the mechanics of verification. That being said, I'm a huge supporter of this law and wish the state of Indiana would follow suit.
I've heard they have made some changes in the law...any LE's have an opinion on these changes?
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