View Full Version : Am I cleaning too much?
BigBuckeye
05-02-10, 22:53
Gents,
I LOVE to clean my firearms, especially my AR's... I clean them after every trip to the range.
Can I clean them too much?
Gents,
I LOVE to clean my firearms, especially my AR's... I clean them after every trip to the range.
Can I clean them too much?
You can, but that does not mean that you are.
I don't think so...I only do a serious cleaning after 500-1000 rds or so. After every range trip I'll clean the barrel with a bore snake but thats about it.
Clean is good, plus I really enjoy spending time with my guns...
BigBuckeye
05-02-10, 23:21
Clean is good, plus I really enjoy spending time with my guns...
+1
I love the mechanical aspects of firrarms and working with the various pieces...
DaBears_85
05-03-10, 00:29
+1
I love the mechanical aspects of firrarms and working with the various pieces...
Amen to that.
My Dad was a Cop for 31 years, and ever since he introduced me to guns, he always taught me to clean my guns after shooting them every single time.
I've been following that rule for the better part of 15 years now. Consequently, I've never had any of my guns jam or malfunction on me in any way, shape, or form. Ever. Maybe it's good luck, maybe it's not. Either way, it's a good habit to get into.
nothing wrong with cleaning a gun.
call me crazy, one time i cleaned my pistol 2 times a day. lol:D
Magic_Salad0892
05-03-10, 03:45
I neglect mine.
If I shoot less than 1000 rounds through it, I don't even bother.
Except for my KAC. I can't neglect that. I would like to and see how it holds up though. :)
My CZ452 and Mossberg 500 need cleaning frequently, else they will turn to a gun shaped pile of rusted powder.
The rest of my guns I seldom clean. My AR, I hit with dry shop air and then add more lube.
Clean is over-rated, imo, when it comes to firearms
You’ll find people on both ends of the cleaning spectrum. Some clean their weapons after every range session, some hardly ever clean at all.
I personally wouldn’t leave it up to someone else to determine whether my cleaning frequency is adequate or not. It’s really a decision for you to decide, to find out exactly where within that spectrum you fall.
Personally, I clean after every range session. The basics of my cleaning routine:
- Disassemble
- Clean
- Inspect
- Lube (Either for storage or operation.)
- Reassemble
- Function Check
PdxMotoxer
05-03-10, 05:39
Also "some" may argue that taking a shower/bath with soap
just washes away those essential oils your body produces
and needs.
Myself, after a hard day I can't wait to get clean.
When i get home from a range or shooting trip i clean all used/dirty
weapons before they go back into the safe.
RogerinTPA
05-03-10, 06:59
You’ll find people on both ends of the cleaning spectrum. Some clean their weapons after every range session, some hardly ever clean at all.
I personally wouldn’t leave it up to someone else to determine whether my cleaning frequency is adequate or not. It’s really a decision for you to decide, to find out exactly where within that spectrum you fall.
Personally, I clean after every range session. The basics of my cleaning routine:
- Disassemble
- Clean
- Inspect
- Lube (Either for storage or operation.)
- Reassemble
- Function Check
That would be me...just lube and shoot. 3-4K rounds fired is my cleaning schedule. :eek:
I clean after every trip to the range.
Jay Cunningham
05-03-10, 07:17
If you are the OCD type and can't sleep unless your AR is spotless, or if you just love to clean your AR... go for it. It's not going to hurt anything. It's probably a waste of time, operationally speaking, but it's nothing that's bad.
The "overcleaning" things comes from issue rifles than pass from recruit to recruit. I don't think an individual can "overclean" their rifle.
So knock yourselves out. You're just spending a lot more on cleaning supplies...
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 07:27
You can clean too much if you're cleaning improperly.
Examples of cleaning improperly are:
-using abrasive materials on close tolerance surfaces
-using a cleaning brush for the bore improperly so that you fret the
crown
-inhaling dangerous chemicals and getting them on your skin
I would recommend less cleaning and more dry firing.
I'm of the not hardly ever crowd. I generally shoot Glocks and AR's and rarely detail clean, or even punch out the bore. I do lube, often and plenty.
Personally, I clean after every range session. The basics of my cleaning routine:
- Disassemble
- Clean
- Inspect
- Lube (Either for storage or operation.)
- Reassemble
- Function Check
Amen Brother!
Yes, I understand that the system runs while dirty, as well as it is lubricated. Just the same, I'll stick to the above regiment every time.
I'm sure you will cause more wear by running a dirty weapon as opposed to a clean and lubed weapon.
I try to clean my AR and SIG after range trips. I do not clean my AK or 870. The only time my AK gets any sort of lube is WD-40 to the outside to prevent rust.:D:D
Jay Cunningham
05-03-10, 09:21
I'm sure you will cause more wear by running a dirty weapon as opposed to a clean and lubed weapon.
I try to clean my AR and SIG after range trips. I do not clean my AK or 870. The only time my AK gets any sort of lube is WD-40 to the outside to prevent rust.:D:D
I find this amazing. You OCD clean your AR but you neither clean nor lube your AK. Do you think an AK is a magical device? Is it not a simple machine with reciprocating metal-to-metal contact?
-using a cleaning brush for the bore improperly so that you fret the
crown
So then when I was in boot and my DI took a dremmel to make the crown(if you could call it that after he was done) on my M16 shiny for final inspection, that was bad;)? When they started doing that all I could think was that I was so happy that I had already qualed.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 10:30
I'm sure you will cause more wear by running a dirty weapon as opposed to a clean and lubed weapon.
Disagree. More damage has been done by cleaning than neglect. You can hose off carbon buildup. You cannot hose off damage done by overcleaning.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 10:30
So then when I was in boot and my DI took a dremmel to make the crown(if you could call it that after he was done) on my M16 shiny for final inspection, that was bad;)? When they started doing that all I could think was that I was so happy that I had already qualed.
Doesn't surprise me but disappointing nonetheless. Was he a pog?
Doesn't surprise me but disappointing nonetheless. Was he a pog?
Yes he was. The one grunt DI we had got in trouble and got court marshaled earlier on. All of the rest had been either admin or motor T.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 11:02
Nothing like a born again hardass pog DI :rolleyes:
One point I see repeated over the years, when the topic of cleaning arises:
- I think some people get “over cleaning” confused with “improper cleaning”.
I believe regardless of how many times I properly clean a weapon, it will simply not cause damage. At some point though, I will be wasting my time. But that would be because once clean; the weapon can physically get no cleaner. If I scrub a bolt assembly with CLP and a tooth brush, and do this over a period of 3 days, am I damaging the bolt assembly? No, I’m not. But yet, I’ve been in units that utilized the “3-day/3-separate cleaning” process and this is where problems arise.
Using improper cleaning methods, can ruin a weapon. Depending on the method, it may take only one incident, or it could be the use of repeated improper cleaning methods over a period of time. Take that same bolt assembly, give to a Private who knows that after this cleaning session, he still has two more cleaning sessions to go through, then that Private will start to improvise and try to come up with quicker, easier ways to get the job done.
And that is where and how we start damaging weapons.
I'm sure you will cause more wear by running a dirty weapon as opposed to a clean and lubed weapon.
I try to clean my AR and SIG after range trips. I do not clean my AK or 870. The only time my AK gets any sort of lube is WD-40 to the outside to prevent rust.:D:D
Not really. As long as there is sufficient lube on your weapon, everywhere two pieces of clearanced machinery that move together, the moving action combined with the lube will "swipe" foreign matter from between the moving pieces.
The supposed abrasive paste that is formed by too much lube is bullshit. To be sure, some particulate matter is suspended in lubricant, but a small amount of lube creates the exact same condition, but is insufficient lube for the swiping action to happen. No lube at all is even worse.
I find this amazing. You OCD clean your AR but you neither clean nor lube your AK. Do you think an AK is a magical device? Is it not a simple machine with reciprocating metal-to-metal contact?
Agreed. All machines and investments of time, money or emotion (sometimes a gun is all 3) need proper care.
As to the cleaning too much.. are you rubbing the finish off yet?
I'm not too religious about cleaning any of my guns, quite frankly. I just exercise a little common sense. If the gun is obviously getting filthy, then yeah, it's time to get things taken care of.
Unless I have time to waste, I'm not going to strip down my AR and M&P after just 100-200 rounds or so. I DO keep a very close eye on lubrication however.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 13:14
The supposed abrasive paste that is formed by too much lube is bullshit. To be sure, some particulate matter is suspended in lubricant, but a small amount of lube creates the exact same condition, but is insufficient lube for the swiping action to happen. No lube at all is even worse.
Thank you. Don't ever try to say the above on a 1911 forum :D
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 13:43
I clean usually every 500-2000 rounds depending on the gun. I did recently take my SR15 up to about 5k without cleaning but I couldn't take it anymore, and cleaned it.
While my cleaning method isn't meant to get every last particle of carbon out it does at least a 90 to 95 percent job. Just scrub down with Carbon Cutter, foam bore cleaned, USGI chamber brush in a low speed cordless drill, spray everything off with brake cleaner, wipe everything with an oily rag, and then a few drops of oil in the BCG. Ill run a bore snake a few times as well. "Precision" barrels get cleaned with a rod, patches, and brushes every couple to three thousand rounds. Lowers I usually just wipe down every other time, and get scrubbed/sprayed the other time. Guys with cans should be cleaning them every time as the blow back will cause a lot more fouling than without a can. Ive seen/heard 1st hand where peoples guns started to fail around 2k rounds due to the build up in the FCG.
I don't think you can over clean an AR but you can damage them. Things like scrubbing metal so much you wear the finish off (lots of military guns), using USGI cleaning rods (steel), maybe leaving harsh bore cleaners on too long.
Im definitely not in the crowd of guys who treat their guns like shit intentionally dinging them up, and spouting off how cleaning a firearm every couple thousand rounds is pointless. Besides part of the purpose of cleaning is giving you the chance to perform a PMCS on thr weapon checking for unusual wear, broken parts, overall condition, etc. The guys who shoot their guns, and then just toss them in a case until the next time they shoot never get a chance to properly break the weapon down, and see whats going on. Not very responsible especially if you use the gun for HD or duty use.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 13:45
USGI chamber brush in a low speed cordless drill
Whoah.....
Besides part of the purpose of cleaning is giving you the chance to perform a PMCS on thr weapon checking for unusual wear, broken parts, overall condition, etc. The guys who shoot their guns, and then just toss them in a case until the next time they shoot never get a chance to properly break the weapon down, and see whats going on. Not very responsible especially if you use the gun for HD or duty use.
Another very good point, and one that most don’t consider.
There’s more behind cleaning, than simply the task of having a clean weapon.
I am anal about my duty carbine (6921). Wether I shoot it 50 or 500 rounds, it gets a good cleaning, inspection, lubing and function check before being returned to duty. It makes me sleep better at night.
I regularly clean my DI guns. Guns for duty/defense use obviously get more attention.
Others, not so much.
On the other hand, I was just looking at my Mini-14 due to discussing it in another thread. It's running on over 1,000 rounds w/o cleaning. I have an old S&W M64 revolver that I honestly can't remember ever cleaning.
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 14:41
Whoah.....
What?
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 14:45
What?
Sorry, I should have clarified. I think that's overdoing it. That's my personal opinion. Hosing the chamber out with brake cleaner is much less trouble and not polishing metal with metal.
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 14:57
Sorry, I should have clarified. I think that's overdoing it. That's my personal opinion. Hosing the chamber out with brake cleaner is much less trouble and not polishing metal with metal.
Copper and soft/mild steel is going to damage chromed and hardened steel?
A few seconds on low speed with plenty of lube (liquid cleaner) isn't going to harm anything in what amounts to about 1 minute and 30 seconds +- in the guns life. If a barrel can survive bullets going down the barrel at 2700+ FPS tens of thousands of time before wearing out in addition to the super heated gas I think a few seconds of a cleaning brush on a hard chromed surface is going to be just fine.
IME brake cleaner is excellent at getting loose material out. If its baked on BC will not remove it, and you need a physical means to do so aside from the spray. This is why I brush the BCG out with a GI cleaning brush, and Carbon Cutter first. If spray was enough there would be no need for things like bore snakes, chamber brushes, cleaning rods, and every other mechanical means of cleaning a firearm.
Littlelebowski
05-03-10, 15:13
I have never see material I needed to chip out of a chamber with metal on an AR. Bear in mind, I shoot 5.45 too. If it works for you, fine. None of my ARs need me to fire up a drill and I abuse them a bit.
As far as brushing out the BCG and all that; I've never seen that do more than waste time. I dunk it once a year or so in Carbon Cutter and spray out with brake cleaner.
I have not used a chamber brush since I got out of the Corps in 04 and have no found a need for one since then either.
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 15:39
I have never see material I needed to chip out of a chamber with metal on an AR. Bear in mind, I shoot 5.45 too. If it works for you, fine. None of my ARs need me to fire up a drill and I abuse them a bit.
As far as brushing out the BCG and all that; I've never seen that do more than waste time. I dunk it once a year or so in Carbon Cutter and spray out with brake cleaner.
I have not used a chamber brush since I got out of the Corps in 04 and have no found a need for one since then either.
Thats certainly up to you how to clean your weapons.
I just do not think a few seconds with a low speed cordless drill is going to damage anything. Ive been doing it for years on multiple guns and never seen any hint of damage.
I actually started this method when I was shooting competitive trap, and used a cleaning rod in a drill with a nylon brush to get the plastic wad fouling out of shotgun barrels. People used to do it all the time on 10k trap guns.
To each his own though.
ETA: Im not "chipping" anything out of my guns. No need to make it sound worse than it is, and the chambers are certainly not being polished anymore than hard chrome already does.
bullitt5172
05-03-10, 16:45
That would be me...just lube and shoot. 3-4K rounds fired is my cleaning schedule. :eek:
Same here, I normally clean my AR's a couple times a year. Doesn't hurt anything. As stated above and all over the internet, most people clean their guns every time they shoot because someone told them to. Modern ammo is non-corrosive and won't hurt anything. I wipe down the outside when they get dirty. Guess what I shoot Wolf too, never had a failure I didn't induce...imagine that ;)
I clean guns I use for Self-Defense and that I know I don't use very frequently, so if left dirty, they'll sit dirty for six months to a year.
I like them cleaned and lubed for storage.
I also like to inspect guns I use for Self-Defense for parts breakage, spring wear, function, etc. Also the gun I conceal carry, I don't want carbon all over me when I press check it, holster it, lay it down on something, handle it, etc.
But if it's something like for example my Browning Buckmark .22 LR Pistol? I've shot about 1,500 rounds through it since I bought it in January... accuracy hasn't degraded and it works reliably.
I don't really see any reason to do anything other than lubricate it.
I'll probably clean it eventually.
You know what I don't do? Keep track of how many rounds I've fired through a gun, I keep a ball park figure, or I remember it, but... I just don't count each round that goes down range that some people do.
Who here does that?
I do clean magazines of weapons periodically as well, and then lubricate them. Probably after about three or four range trips with a particular gun.
Also, I probably over lubricate stuff, intentionally, as I just think I don't know when I'll clean it again but periodically, and also, as stated other places (I forget where) and I found true I've never seen a gun malfunction from too much lubrication, but I have seen them malfunction from too little.
Alaskapopo
05-03-10, 17:24
You can clean too much if you're cleaning improperly.
Examples of cleaning improperly are:
-using abrasive materials on close tolerance surfaces
-using a cleaning brush for the bore improperly so that you fret the
crown
-inhaling dangerous chemicals and getting them on your skin
I would recommend less cleaning and more dry firing.
+1
Pat
So is using a bronze brush on the tail end of the bolt "too much"?
Nah.......... after every trip to the range I love to grab a couple
beers and plop down in front of the big screen in the basement. Spread out a few news papers and do a little cleaning.
Same for after a waterfowl hunt too............ ahhhhhhh.............. that's GOOD time. :D
JP
Originally Posted by Belmont31R
Besides part of the purpose of cleaning is giving you the chance to perform a PMCS on thr weapon checking for unusual wear, broken parts, overall condition, etc. The guys who shoot their guns, and then just toss them in a case until the next time they shoot never get a chance to properly break the weapon down, and see whats going on. Not very responsible especially if you use the gun for HD or duty use.
Originally Posted by Quib
very good point, and one that most don’t consider.
There’s more behind cleaning, than simply the task of having a clean weapon.
+1
I usually clean my guns after each range time to inspect the interior parts also.
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