View Full Version : Two (or three) quick questions... SOG Armory?
Bobert0989
05-03-10, 03:55
1) Does SOG Armory build a good rifle for the money? I'm looking at the Warrior as of right now (With the monolith free-float). Is there a "better" option for the money, performance/quality-wise?
2) Is there a signifigant advantage or disadvantage to "upgrading" to 6.8 over the ever-popular 5.56? Are SOG rifles dependable in 6.8 as well as 5.56?
Thanks so much for your time and knowledge...
~Bobby
**EDIT** Still looking on info for above, but am also interested in LWRC M2A2 listed on SOG's site. Looks like a FINE piece of equipment. BUT are they worth the extra money, for the piston setup and 1:7 barrel? Thanks
1) Does SOG Armory build a good rifle for the money? I'm looking at the Warrior as of right now (With the monolith free-float). Is there a "better" option for the money, performance/quality-wise?
I don't know anything about SOG Armory but given the specs for the "Warrior" rifle on their website, I would pass (4140 barrel steel, chrome-moly not chrome lined barrel, 1:9 twist barrel, no mention of HPT or MP testing, etc.) For $1800 you could build a comparable rifle using a quality base rifle from BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense or a number of other manufacturers......hell, even using a Colt 6920 you could probably build a similar rifle for less than $1800.
If you're referring to the SOG in Houston, I would pass on everything they offer. Stick w/the recommended "big boys" you cant go wrong...
I have both calibers, the 6.8 is expensive to shoot, the 5.56 is not.
Bobert0989
05-03-10, 11:59
I have both calibers, the 6.8 is expensive to shoot, the 5.56 is not.
So other than price of ammunition, are there any pros or cons to consider in shooting 6.8 over 5.56? More stopping power? Reliability issues?
Thanks!
**As for SOG, they're in Houston. I wondered why I didn't see many pictures of them on here (Haven't found any, really). And the LWRC I mentioned with the piston setup, is $2,399 a fair price on one in 6.8? $2,499 for 5.56?
Thanks for the info!
~Bobby
Their AR's are overpriced for what they offer. I would seriously look at around. A quick peek at BCM and you could build a serious AR for just under 1000.00.
Bobert0989
05-03-10, 12:32
Their AR's are overpriced for what they offer. I would seriously look at around. A quick peek at BCM and you could build a serious AR for just under 1000.00.
Are you saying SOG is overpriced or LWRC's Piston rifles? I found an M6A1 online for $1,698 + shipping... seems like a good price, includes the monolith rail setup.
justin_247
05-03-10, 12:53
Are you saying SOG is overpriced or LWRC's Piston rifles? I found an M6A1 online for $1,698 + shipping... seems like a good price, includes the monolith rail setup.
Both!
Get a Colt, BCM, DD, or Noveske! Heck, for that kind of money you can buy a KAC.
Not to chase you away, as this forums is great for AR info, but there is a lot of info on the 6.8SPC along with many vendors who specialize in it at 68forums.com.
Both SOG and LWRC seem overpriced. I'm currently using a Stag 5H 6.8 upper on a fully equipped Daniels Defense lower I got from one of our vendors, G&R Tactical. The whole deal, with some extra mags (which on the 6.8 tend to be expensive) was about $950. No need to throw away money on a tacticool sounding name, go with the know quality manufacturers. Even Daniels Defense will be coming out with a couple 6.8 rifles this summer.
we talked about SOG last year clicky clicky (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33566)
a 6.8 isnt a good first weapon for you, its to expensive to train on as your only M4.
Bobert0989
05-05-10, 03:44
we talked about SOG last year clicky clicky (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33566)
a 6.8 isnt a good first weapon for you, its to expensive to train on as your only M4.
It's not the first M4 platform for me, just looking for something different than my 5.56, not that there's anything wrong with it, I just like options. Since I posted this, I have been researching 6.5 Grendel, and think that would be an interesting caliber to build-up, with either an 18" or 20" barrel.
So, back to my main concern at this point in time,
PISTON RIFLES:
Where should I start looking? Why does LWRC Claim to have designed the system, and everyone thinks they're overpriced for what they are? It's confusing me a little, but I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just looking for some facts. I have ruled out 6.8 for my first PISTON carbine, so what should I look into for value and reliability in that field?
Thanks for the info, I was suprised that people didn't like SOG weapons. I love their knives... ;)
~Bobby
justin_247
05-05-10, 04:06
Thanks for the info, I was suprised that people didn't like SOG weapons. I love their knives... ;)
I hate to break it to you, but SOG knives are not made by SOG Armory... they're made by SOG Specialty Knives & Tools.
And, yes, SOG knives are very nice.
Bobert0989
05-05-10, 04:15
I hate to break it to you, but SOG knives are not made by SOG Armory... they're made by SOG Specialty Knives & Tools.
And, yes, SOG knives are very nice.
Lol... hence the " ;) " following that comment. I didn't know there was a SOG Armory until I happened across a carbine on GunBroker.
Speaking of which, anyone have experience with the new Les Baer Gas Piston rifles? They look nice, and I've heard they can build a nice 1911, how about a rifle? But a 1:8 barrel, I've never sot one, personally...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=166918091
It's in my budget... what are my other options? Really prefer the monolith setup for this one, as my current AR isn't...
Bobert0989
05-05-10, 04:22
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167162248
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=166293410
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167928427
PLEASE HELP ME...lol
RetreatHell
05-05-10, 04:37
Stay the **** away from SOG Armory, bro!!!
Just log your ass onto Bravo Company's website right now and get yourself a badass 14.5" or 16" Mid-length carbine, with the top tier rail over your choice, that SOG couldn't even dream of nearing with their bullshit builds.
One of my friends bought several carbines from SOG for several of his employees to take a class out at Blackwater. Not one, but TWO of the bolts in the guns he bought from SOG Armory literally snapped in half while firing!:eek: These were VERY low round-count guns too. They were also told upon buying the AR15s that the BCGs (and possibly other components such as the bbl) were made by Colt (this was during the height of the Obama gun scare buy off).
When my buddy got back home from his carbine class, he went up to SOG and dropped his 2 broken bolts on their counter. The excuse that SOG gave my friend (who btw is a former 0311 Marine with plenty of time kicking down doors and killing bad guys in Iraq), was that, "You have to properly clean these things and keep them well lubed with CLP. That's exactly why they broke right there!"
My friend damn near went ballistic on the dude, but held his temper and instead just asked for brand new bolts.
I think I remember what happened afterwards, but I don't wanna say because I could be wrong, so I'll just leave it at that. I might actually still have the pics of the 2 broken bolts on my computer somewhere. I wanted to make sure I took pics of them b/c I'd never seen anything like that happen in my life. If any of you are interested, I can try can look for them and post them here tomorrow. That's IF I still have them though. I deleted a lot of firearms pics awhile back, but hopefully I held onto those at least.
Are you saying SOG is overpriced or LWRC's Piston rifles? I found an M6A1 online for $1,698 + shipping... seems like a good price, includes the monolith rail setup.
LWRC is not a monolithic rail.
Bobert0989
05-05-10, 14:12
LWRC is not a monolithic rail.
Sorry. By monolithic, I meant either true monolith OR monolith style, such as the M6 comes with. Is it a Larue Rail system?
For "2 or 3 quick questions" you sure are all over the place. Like someone else suggested, go read the 68Forums for all you'll ever want to know about the caliber. Hell, if you're stuck on staying here on M4C, do a search...plenty of info comparing 5.56, 6.8spc, 6.5g, etc. both here and there.
While you're at it, search here on LWRC and you'll find out about some quality issues and crappy customer service.
If you want a quality 6.8 rifle right out of the box, go to Wilson Combat. You'll find out a lot about Bill's rifles on 68Forums, too.
Oh, and I will second the comments about SOG Armory in Houston...stay away.
Sorry. By monolithic, I meant either true monolith OR monolith style, such as the M6 comes with. Is it a Larue Rail system?
Just FYI - It's either monolithic or it isn't - "monolithic style" is simply aesthetics and is the same as a upper receiver with a Larue handguard (with a 3/4" gap on it) from a functional standpoint. Yes, it looks nicer, but it's functionally worthless.
bcm or kac and be done with it.
Magic_Salad0892
05-05-10, 16:37
I would recommend LWRCi or KAC for that money.
Personally I'd go with LWRCi.
But not the A2. I own one, and can't think of a reason not to find an A3 or A1.
It's a great rifle, but not one that I'd recommend over the other rifles in their lineup.
thopkins22
05-05-10, 17:07
One of these is below the MSRP...the other is not only not below it, it's $8 more. Never mind the quality issues that you'll get into on their rifles which RetreatHell has already pointed out, why would you be interested in buying things that are being marked UP?
http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=103715&Catid=211&ParentId=60
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SM-OCG
thopkins22
05-05-10, 17:10
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167162248
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=166293410
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167928427
PLEASE HELP ME...lol
What makes you think you need a piston? If you actually have a reason other than hype, the LMT should be the clear choice.
For my money under the $1700 mark you seem to be playing with, I would either select just about any of the BCM options and then accessorize or I'd by a DDM4 and be done with it.
If you want a monolithic rail and a piston rifle then go LMT. The offer both and you can find em around $1800 to $2000 all day on the net. LMT's rep is solid.
556 does not offer the energy of 6.8 at longer range. Up close I think 556 with good rounds offers more but that is all up to you. Just look up the ballistics.
On a side note I was looking into a 6.8 or 6.5 and desided that 556 would be cheaper to shoot, is the round the system was designed for, and I don't plan to engage tangos, there are better rounds for hunting, and I can use any commercial ammo I want, so 6.8 was ruled out. 6.5 might be interesting in a upper or second or third gun. It offers more for my use. Better ballistics, better bullets, and generally better round.
ETA alexander arms makes some nice 6.5 uppers and rifles.
Bobert0989
05-06-10, 03:29
If you want a monolithic rail and a piston rifle then go LMT. The offer both and you can find em around $1800 to $2000 all day on the net. LMT's rep is solid.
556 does not offer the energy of 6.8 at longer range. Up close I think 556 with good rounds offers more but that is all up to you. Just look up the ballistics.
On a side note I was looking into a 6.8 or 6.5 and desided that 556 would be cheaper to shoot, is the round the system was designed for, and I don't plan to engage tangos, there are better rounds for hunting, and I can use any commercial ammo I want, so 6.8 was ruled out. 6.5 might be interesting in a upper or second or third gun. It offers more for my use. Better ballistics, better bullets, and generally better round.
ETA alexander arms makes some nice 6.5 uppers and rifles.
Yes, Alexander was where I began looking into the 6.5 rifle possibility, as a fourth, actually.
To answer other questions, I am set on a Piston AR because I don't have one, and I find them very interesting, and I have some extra money to buy a gun with, and didn't want something I've already got (Standard M4 profiled AR-15's) with a different name across the lower... basically... lol
Thanks for the info... Looking at the LMT's now. Noticed GunBroker was FLOODED with some brand I've never heard of selling some funky looking piston AR's...
Still looking for input, but I'm leaning greatly towards the LMT.
Thanks
Bobby
Bobert0989
05-06-10, 03:32
One of these is below the MSRP...the other is not only not below it, it's $8 more. Never mind the quality issues that you'll get into on their rifles which RetreatHell has already pointed out, why would you be interested in buying things that are being marked UP?
http://www.sogarmory.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=103715&Catid=211&ParentId=60
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SM-OCG
Yes, that's a bit ridiculous. But as someone said before, somebody's buying their merchandise because they are still selling it! May not be "fair" but it's business, anyways... :)
the_fallguy
05-06-10, 05:06
So other than price of ammunition, are there any pros or cons to consider in shooting 6.8 over 5.56? More stopping power? Reliability issues?
I chose the 5.56 because both defensive ammunition and practice ammunition was more readily available in my area than the elusive 6.8, cheaper ammunition means more center fire practice, and because I could use a .22lr conversion in the 5.56 carbine to supplement my training (which translates into a whole lot more trigger time).
My other rationalizations for purchasing the 5.56 over the 6.8 are as follows: A smaller caliber with more training time easily trumps a larger bore that rarely gets shot. Also, I planned to attend some classes, and the cost difference of using 5.56 vs. 6.8 in one carbine course is significant. Besides, I can buy a 6.8 upper down the road if I decide there is a legitimate need for one.
have you thought about hanging loose for a few weeks and buying a ACR Enhanced version when they are released "soon" ?
the_fallguy
05-06-10, 05:27
Oops. 'Sorry for assuming it was your only AR. I guess I should have read more of the thread or asked what your intended use of the new rifle was.
If I had your budget and all I wanted to do was get a new toy, I think I would build/buy a 6.5 to play with in the light tactical division at the local long range tournament.
If your money is burning a hole in your pocket and you haven't taken a good carbine class yet, you might consider spending a good chunk of it for some ammo and a class or two. It would probably be more constructive than just adding one more gun to your collection, and a helluva lot of fun, too.
Bobert0989
05-06-10, 09:05
Oops. 'Sorry for assuming it was your only AR. I guess I should have read more of the thread or asked what your intended use of the new rifle was.
If I had your budget and all I wanted to do was get a new toy, I think I would build/buy a 6.5 to play with in the light tactical division at the local long range tournament.
If your money is burning a hole in your pocket and you haven't taken a good carbine class yet, you might consider spending a good chunk of it for some ammo and a class or two. It would probably be more constructive than just adding one more gun to your collection, and a helluva lot of fun, too.
Well, I have put some consideration into investing in training, but do not know where to go around here (Richmond, KY)...
But I still want the piston setup. As for the ACR, that's a little higher than I wanted to go (I think), as I'm looking at around $2k TOPS.
Thanks for the input though...
Bobby
I know I'll never buy from SOG Armory again. Shortly after the election craze a few years back I was looking long and hard for a mid-length gas-tube and I had already tried to buy two at different places (made a trip all the way to them - an hour one way) and they turned out to be carbine-length tubes.
I ordered one from SOG and made sure to bring it up to the person on the phone 6 or 7 times that it was in fact a mid-length gas-tube and I was assured that it was.
When it came in, it was a carbine-length and SOG wouldn't do anything for me other than refund the original cost of the part (but not shipping - it was their friggin mistake).
I ended up selling the gas-tube since it was easier to do that than dispute it on my Visa and actually ship it back to SOG.
Crappy customer service (the guy on the phone was rude, didn't know what he was talking about when it came to gas-tube lengths, and acted like he was upset that I was even buying anything from them).
Noticed GunBroker was FLOODED with some brand I've never heard of selling some funky looking piston AR's...
What was the brand?
RetreatHell
05-07-10, 13:10
What was the brand?
No shit. Ya can't just make a comment like that and then leave everyone hangin' dude;)
Belmont31R
05-07-10, 13:45
F SOG Armory. I bought an DD Omega rail from them, and they shorted me the bolts to keep the rail together, and the ladder rail covers that are supposed to come with it. Of course after the fact they said they had ladder rail covers for $11 each. Probably the same ones they took off the rail they sent me.
They are at the gunshows down here, and tons of their stuff is overpriced. Only reason I bought from them ONCE was because they had a particular rail length/color I needed and no one else I could find had any in stock.
Bobert0989
05-07-10, 15:43
What was the brand?
POF-USA. There's probably a hundred of them if you simply search "Piston AR" on GunBroker.com
Are they a well-known company that I've just never heard of or come across?
Are they a well-known company that I've just never heard of or come across?
Correct.
Bobert0989
05-08-10, 03:09
Correct.
So do they make a quality rifle? I liked a few models they had for sale on Broker, and they seem to be plentiful and affordable. I'd just never heard of them or even seen one...
RetreatHell
05-08-10, 05:15
So do they make a quality rifle? I liked a few models they had for sale on Broker, and they seem to be plentiful and affordable. I'd just never heard of them or even seen one...
If you're wanting a piston gun, I would go with either an LWRC AR15 or an FN SCAR. That's just my personal opinion based off of talking to guys who own either of those two, as well as reading AARs from guys who run those guns hard in carbine courses. I'm not going to bash any other brands here. I'll just say that I'd highly recommend one of those two I listed more than any other popular piston gun out there.
That said, I'd rather have a nice BCM, KAC, Daniel Defense, Noveske, Larue Tactical, Colt, etc, etc.. Shit, if you got the cash, get a Larue OBR. That'd be a great change for you and would be plenty "different" from your regular 5.56mm ARs.
That's all I got for ya, man. Good luck!;)
Bobert0989
05-08-10, 11:26
If you're wanting a piston gun, I would go with either an LWRC AR15 or an FN SCAR. That's just my personal opinion based off of talking to guys who own either of those two, as well as reading AARs from guys who run those guns hard in carbine courses. I'm not going to bash any other brands here. I'll just say that I'd highly recommend one of those two I listed more than any other popular piston gun out there.
That said, I'd rather have a nice BCM, KAC, Daniel Defense, Noveske, Larue Tactical, Colt, etc, etc.. Shit, if you got the cash, get a Larue OBR. That'd be a great change for you and would be plenty "different" from your regular 5.56mm ARs.
That's all I got for ya, man. Good luck!;)
I appreciate the helpful advice. I seriously considered the LT OBR, or ordering a complete 18" Stealth upper from them, but really need to stay around $2k on this one. That won't buy me a SCAR for sure :( ...
That's why I opted to try a new design on basically the same platform, going with a Piston AR. I'm down to two for my money, LMT or LWRCi . I'd guess that whichever I find a good deal on first will be the victor. I could go with KAC, but would have to cheapen down my optics for it, and I don't want to do that. Already got the Aimpoint package picked out. I could opt for a cheaper mount that Larue, and afford the KAC maybe, but I don't want to make any sacrifices that I may regret later. I just want a quality gun within budget.
Thanks!
Bobby
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