View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical AK Operators Class - May 1-2, 2010 - Fuquay-Varina, NC
John_Wayne777
05-03-10, 11:44
The Vickers Tactical AK course is designed to teach a student the skills and techniques necessary to use the AK platform effectively as a tool for serious social interaction.
The AK is one of the most popular assault rifles in the world, and yet is also probably the most misunderstood assault rifle within the US. As a kid I remember growing up with all kinds of stories the poor quality of com-bloc weapons, their unreliability, and their minute of barn accuracy. The AK, the preferred weapon of our enemy….which makes a distinctive sound when fired at us, sir…was always billed as inferior and incapable.
After half a day Mr. Vickers is usually able to pretty much put all of that nonsense to rest.
Mr. Vickers is an expert on the AK platform from an operational as well as a technical perspective. This means that he can teach you the most effective way to handle and manipulate the AK and is just as capable of giving sage advice in regards to the purchase, setup, and maintenance of an AK. AK’s on the civilian market here in the US are not created equal and the expert advice of someone who knows the ins and outs of the market can save a lot of money and frustration. Many AK’s on gunstore shelves here in the US are an amalgamation of parts from a bunch of different sources…which can cause problems. Before the course even started one individual’s AK was found to have a military safety installed on it that was incompatible with the 922r compliant fire control group in the gun. A simple attempt to adjust the tension on the safety (a simple process) turned into a need to completely replace the safety. I took the Blackjack lever off of my VEPR and we installed it on his gun so he could run the course with it.
The marriage of all these parts from different sources with different tolerances can lead to serious problems. Another individual found that out the hard way when he attempted to disengage the safety on his rifle and the weapon discharged. Thankfully this during a drill and the weapon was pointed in a safe direction so no one was in any sort of danger. Still, it should serve to demonstrate the potential issues you can have with AK builds…and perhaps show why playing with the safety isn’t a good idea if you are behind the line. In this instance the operator was disengaging the safety to complete of a drill just as he was supposed to, but he had an unforeseen equipment issue which resulted in a loud noise when one was not intended. Good handling habits on his part turned something that could have been really bad news into nothing more than a teaching point about the pitfalls of AK parts.
There was also an issue with slings during this course. There are a number of different sling options out there on the market these days, but at least in my humble opinion all of them are not created equal. In this course I saw two rifles part ways with slings because of unnecessarily complex attachment points. One was a gun Mr. Vickers borrowed to do a demo. He took the weapon and the front sling attachment popped right off of the gun. Mr. Vickers had positive control of the weapon so there was no problem, just a slight delay to get the sling back on the gun. The other happened behind the line when I was talking to another student and his rifle, which had just been cleared by design on a previous drill, flopped off of the single-point arrangement he had going and hit the dirt. Mr. Vickers mentioned to one of the students that all the whiz-bang buckles and attachment stuff you see on some slings these days are essentially possible points of failure. Simpler generally is better in regards to sling arrangements, which is why Mr. Vickers’ signature sling is designed as it is. The design is deceptively simple but made of very high quality materials and arranged to provide the best possible security as well as excellent functionality.
One of the first myths about the AK to be demolished was accuracy. AK’s are often billed as inaccurate weapons, and Mr. Vickers was careful to explain that AK’s do have some inherent accuracy limitations due to the nature of their production and to the ammo available. Still, when properly zeroed the weapons themselves are capable of delivering more than enough accuracy to get the job done. To emphasize this Mr. Vickers had us shooting at 6” NRA bullseye targets during the majority of the class. Whether the drill was static, shooting from the weak shoulder, or shooting on the move, the goal was to put all shots in the black whether we were 5 yards from the target or 50. The only respite from the 6” bullseyes to be found was the walkback drills which required hitting a 12” x 12” steel plate. That wasn’t so bad at 25 yards…but 12” seems kind of small at 125 yards. Still, we had lots of people making hits with AK’s at 125 yards, even with iron sights and a 4 second par time.
At the encouragement of a few students during one walkback, Mr. Vickers took us back to 200 yards. From 200 yards, standing, offhand, several students scored solid dead center hits on a 12” steel plate with an AK pattern rifle and a hodgepodge of bulk quality 7.62x39mm ammo. (Only one shooter was using a 5.45 AK, and only Mr. Vickers had an AK in 5.56) I made the hit at 200 yards with Templar’s VZ-58, which he was kind enough to let me borrow for the course.
So much for the minute of barn accuracy attributed to com-bloc weapons. The only person who could legitimately claim that they missed due to equipment would have been, ironically enough, Mr. Vickers who was T&E’ing a new iron sight for his beater AK that didn’t seem to hold a zero very well. The rest of us could blame all of our misses entirely on failures in the trigger control and sight management departments.
There was a mixture of different hardware at the class which the pictures will relate far better than I can. It was rather curious that all but one of the weapons at the class was in 7.62x39mm. About 1/3 of the class was using some sort of red dot sight if I recall correctly, while most of us were using irons.
There were a number of really good shooters in the class. Chris Barrett (of Barrett Mfg. fame) was consistently one of the better shooters on the line. A young Marine (whom we affectionately nicknamed Gunny Highway) showed the benefits of Corps rifle training and some serious bullseye competition with his superb shooting. This was GermanSynergy’s first Vickers course, which is usually a bit of a shock to the system for most in regards to Mr. Vickers’ legendarily high accuracy standards, but he handled it well and shot very well through the entire course despite dealing with a busted rifle. We were fortunate enough to have a medical professional in the course who shot extremely well, generally turning in one of the better performances on any drill. Templar was performing to his usually high commie weapon shooting standards. We were even graced by the presence of a lady shooter who did a pretty good job of getting her hits despite dealing with a rifle that didn’t fit her well.
All in all it was a good course with a lot of good material, some excellent shooters, and some good fellowship. The Drake’s Landing range facility was great. The only thing that would have made it better was the installation of some shade. The sun seemed brutally oppressive over the weekend for some reason which left people a bit fried (figuratively and literally…I think we all have raccoon eyes from the eyepro) by the end of the day. Other than that, the range was clean, well-maintained, and very user friendly. Kudos to Drake’s landing.
If you are serious about learning the AK, this course is a must. It’s difficult to think of anyone else on the planet who can match the unique combination of operational experience, technical expertise on the AK, and raw teaching ability that Mr. Vickers brings to this course. That is a big reason why you see so many repeat students in his classes. Even if you’ve been through the exact same course before, you still walk away learning a great deal. I continue to train with Mr. Vickers because even after attending as many courses as I have with him I always walk away thinking about things differently than I did before.
Part of that could be that I'm about as teachable as a brick, but I think the majority of it is due to the quality of instruction. ;)
Thanks for the write up JW! Sounds like it was an excellent class as usual. With some new faces on the line. Glad German Synergy got the VZ mag situation squared away. Did you run the VZ the whole class?
John_Wayne777
05-03-10, 12:04
I did indeed run it the whole class. Unfortunately GermanSynergy didn't run his VZ-58 very long as it ceased firing pretty early on day 1. I don't remember if we ever figured out what was wrong with it.
I did indeed run it the whole class. Unfortunately GermanSynergy didn't run his VZ-58 very long as it ceased firing pretty early on day 1. I don't remember if we ever figured out what was wrong with it.
I am sure it was much lighter than the Vepr.:D
I cant remember hearing about many VZ's shitting the bed before... Was it a home build?
I am sure it was much lighter than the Vepr.:D
I cant remember hearing about many VZ's shitting the bed before... Was it a home build?
No, factory Czechpoint, but it was the 922R US made trigger group that shit the bed. I meant to take a look at it but the sun baked it out of me.
I'm extraordinarily confident that they'll take care of G.Synergy. I haven't seen an issue with the Czechpoint FCG, while I have with the Ohio Rapid Fire FCG.
No, factory Czechpoint, but it was the 922R US made trigger group that shit the bed. I meant to take a look at it but the sun baked it out of me.
I'm extraordinarily confident that they'll take care of G.Synergy. I haven't seen an issue with the Czechpoint FCG, while I have with the Ohio Rapid Fire FCG.
Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like it was a great class as usual. Sorry I missed it. Hopefully you will be able to make July's 3 day.:cool:
GermanSynergy
05-03-10, 18:17
Hi everyone,
First I'd like to thank Mr.Vickers for an outstanding and informative class. Thanks also to VA Dinger, JW777 and Templar (esp for the mags and cool pigskin pouch) for putting up with me throughout the course. :cool:
To expand a bit on what happened with my VZ-58:
This was my first rifle course with the VZ, and it has less than 1000 rounds thru it. It was purchased new in box by myself in January. Early in the AM on Day I, during the Walk Back Drill, the weapon failed to fire. I performed immediate action, and tried again. Another loud CLICK was heard by all. Larry examined a 7.62x39mm cartridge that I'd extracted from the weapon, and there were no firing pin marks on the primer. This was newly manufactured Wolf 122 grain FMJ ammo, and had been 100% reliable to that point. I took the weapon off the firing line, and it was determined that some of the 922 compliance FCG parts were not working properly.
Chris Barrett was gracious enough to permit me to run his new AK-103 clone in 7.62x39mm for the remainder of the class. This rifle shot very,very well for me and I will be purchasing one soon.
I have contacted Czechpoint and have every confidence that they will repair the rifle in a timely manner.
*** UPDATE- 4 May 2010. I've spoken with Czechpoint and they are issuing a call tag today for return of the rifle and will repair it free of charge.***
I cannot wait to see the photos from this class. :cool:
I cannot wait to see the photos from this class. :cool:
You're killing me. :p
Heavy Metal
05-04-10, 21:39
Did Larry bring anything historic with him this time?
Sherman A. House
05-04-10, 21:52
I'm preparing a more formal write up for this class, but I'll just post a few quick thoughts.
First off, I'd like to thank Larry, VADinger, Templar and JohnWayne777 for the fellowship this weekend. I had a great time, and learned alot of solid material.
For those that haven't taken this class, don't ever enter into a weapon trivia contest with Larry, Templar or JW777...you'll lose for sure. The only one I got right was by pure luck.
I've felt, "good," for quite some time now, with the coarse accuracy capabilities of my standard AK's, but I now feel like I can really wring every inch of capability out of my AK. This is a good thing!
I've been reading here for quite some time, and I am glad to be a, "speaking," member here now.
Thanks for the great class, Larry and Paul.
Jay Cunningham
05-04-10, 22:13
Heard a lot of good things about you from some of the guys in the class, Sherman. Hope we see you around more.
Sherman A. House
05-04-10, 22:16
Thanks man. I appreciate the feedback.
I'm glad to be here!
Another AK class has come and gone, and it was outstanding as usual.
Very good mix of students from all walks of life and skill sets.
From a gear point of view, I found it interesting that there was only one shooter using an AK-74 in 5.45mm. All of the other students were using AK's chambered in 7.62x39mm, with two students, JW777 and German Synergy using Czech vz-58's. As previously mentioned, GS's vz-58 had a major malf in the fire control group which put it out of action fairly early into TD1. Mr. Barrett was kind enough to loan him an outstanding AK-103 build by Chris Butler of AK USA in FL.
I have a lot of pics and vids I am editing now but I can put some up from TD1.
Sherman, it was good to meet and shoot with you.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/P1040567-1.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/P1040549.jpg
"Gunny Highway"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/P1040546-2.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/th_P1040619-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/?action=view¤t=P1040619-1.flv)
Larry Vickers
05-04-10, 22:46
Thanx all for some great feedback
I really enjoy teaching my AK classes as it just reconfirms what we have figured out about these weapons ; in the hands of a dailed in end user they can be very effective
Be safe and see ya next time
LAV
James Yeager
05-04-10, 23:45
Denny Hanson has given me the go ahead for an article so I will save my commentary. I will say that Larry is a class act and I really like him. My wife took most of these pictures and it was her first time covering a class. She hopes you enjoy them.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/jamesyeager/Vickers%20AK/VickersAK1.jpg
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James Yeager
05-04-10, 23:46
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/jamesyeager/Vickers%20AK/VickersAK27.jpg
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Great pics and excellent write up guys! Another outstanding Vickers class. Did I see someone running a Vepr?
I recognize the one guy from the last AK class... He was sneaky accurate and I think he won the walk back at the last class...
Always glad to see pictures along with AARs. I get a better grasp on what the classmates have to say. Plus, it's nice to see what other people are running. I think I might actually buy an AK here shortly.
NCPatrolAR
05-05-10, 07:04
What kind of sights is LAV running on his gun?
What kind of sights is LAV running on his gun?
Looks like a tech sight or something very similar. I don't remember them being squared off though.:confused: I know he was checking them out at the last AK class...
What kind of sights is LAV running on his gun?
I'm sure it's an aimpoint of some sort. Maybe a micro
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/jamesyeager/Vickers%20AK/VickersAK29.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-10, 07:44
What kind of sights is LAV running on his gun?
http://www.tech-sights.com/
For those who attended the class, did Mr. Vickers comment on what he thought of these sights? They have been around for a few years now but I been apprehensive about them due to the dust cover tolerance issue.
John_Wayne777
05-05-10, 07:47
Perhaps Mr. Vickers will comment with more detail, but at the time he seemed to be having issues with the Tech Sights holding zero.
....
You know I can ban you, right?
http://www.tech-sights.com/
For those who attended the class, did Mr. Vickers comment on what he thought of these sights? They have been around for a few years now but I been apprehensive about them due to the dust cover tolerance issue.
Not impressed. They didn't hold zero well on his carbine and if you have to remove the dustcover quickly to clear out something in the receiver, you can't do it in a timely manner.
Sorry, thought you guys were talking about the RDS
You know I can ban you, right?
Touche, lol.
Larry Vickers
05-05-10, 08:06
I'm not ready to give up on the Tech Sights quite yet
To be honest I never really took the time to get a good zero - I was adjusting on the fly which is never a good idea but common when you are the lead instructor and the class must go on
The frustrating part is I put them on my traveling AK - a Romy that was plenty accurate and had a great zero - I finally gave up and went to my tricked out Arsenal 106 with Micro - which has a good zero and allowed me to hit the 12" x 12' plate at 200 yds offhand
One thing I will say about the Tech Sight setup is because of the design requirements it now makes getting the top cover off quick and easy virtually impossible - which can be a problem with some malfunction clearance situations
So let me get a good zero and give the Tech Sight a real shake out - then I will tell you what i think
Cheers
LAV
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-10, 09:36
So let me get a good zero and give the Tech Sight a real shake out - then I will tell you what i think
Cheers
LAV
Fair enough, thank you for your response I look forward to your review.
THE UGLY
After receiving the range command, acknowledging, and then bringing my rifle to my shoulder and depressing the selector from the, “safe,” to the, “fire,” position, the weapon fired. I immediately reapplied the safety and took my hand off of the pistol grip and onto the neck of the stock until Larry figured out what was wrong. He immediately asked me if I had a Tapco G2 trigger group installed, and I DID (double hook). He stopped the class and circled the troops to talk about how, “drop in,” trigger packs are often NOT truly, “drop in,” and thus must be fitted to each weapon to ensure safe operation.
Could you elaborate on this subject a little more please? I run a single-hook G2 FCG in my Romy SAR-1 and I'm sure there are a lot of guys on here who use them as well.
On another note, I couldn't help but notice the female student (sorry I don't know her name) had a PWS FSC47 on her rifle. What is the consensus on these? I am interested in getting these for my AKs with 14x1 LH threads.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/AKCLASSmuzzlebreak.jpg
Looks like a great class.
That's the first time I've ever seen someone rockin' a wife beater at a firearms class :p
On another note, I couldn't help but notice the female student (sorry I don't know her name) had a PWS FSC47 on her rifle. What is the consensus on these? I am interested in getting these for my AKs with 14x1 LH threads.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/AKCLASSmuzzlebreak.jpg
I noticed that it cut down on the muzzle jump as it was supposed to, increases perceived report to about where an AK-74/AK-103 brake is, at least that's how it seemed to me when I was off to the side of her.
Great photographs. It appears a great time was had. I hope to make one of these classes someday.
Sherman A. House
05-05-10, 11:28
Hello,
I'll expound on what I said, although there isn't much left to say! From what I gathered from Larry's soliloquy on the oversize trigger group, some rifles don't fit it correctly, because of variances in the location of the axis pins. Then, what that translates to, is a mechanical interference with the operation of the trigger in relation to the safety lever.
As you know, an AK trigger can get pretty gritty after alot of use, especially with dirty ammo. The more I think about this the more I imagine that the trigger axis pin could have become dirty enough to hamper its rotation, and thus it wasn't returning fully to its, "rested," position after cocking, and thus with the trigger essentially in the, "reset," position, the selector was moved to, "safe," and then when it was moved to, "fire," it bumped the trigger from the reset position to the rearmost position and fired the weapon.
Just a hypothesis...but honestly I'm not really a gunsmith or anything.
Bottom line: Larry said that great care must be taken to ensure that the FCG that YOU install in YOUR weapon (or the builder installs) MUST be fitted to work right. Might it drop in? Certainly, but as well all know, all AK's are NOT created equal, and thus care must be taken to keep accidental discharges like this one from happening.
Hope that answered your question.
Sherman A. House
05-05-10, 11:31
I used the PWS FSC47 on my Yugo. It is a heavy gun, so the recoil is minimal anyway, but it did seem to do a good job of mitigating muzzle rise. You can see in the pic where I shot my rifle dry and transitioned (with the case in the air) that the muzzle rise isn't much at all.
Of course, it does help to have 250 pounds hanging off of the other end of the gun! Nothing mitigates recoil and muzzle rise like putting your weight into it!
Sherman,
Those are awesome gloves, where did you get them :) Seriously great reviews guys. I am hoping Mr. Smith can bring Larry to a class here in Louisville (Knob Creek) again. I would love to take his AK class. See you guys at HRCC in October.
Rebecca could have a blooming second career.
John
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-10, 13:05
Thanks Templar and Sherman for getting to my questions.
I really appreciate it, for those of us who cannot attend one of Mr. Vickers classes it is most informative to a get direct source of the knowledge obtained from those who participated.
Sherman your earlier post was quite long, leave it to me to be the one who stills has a question, lol. :cool: My question in regards to the G2 FCG was specific to Mr. Vickers comments on the subject as I assumed he imparted some advice on the matter to you.
Thanks Templar and Sherman for getting to my questions.
I really appreciate it, for those of us who cannot attend one of Mr. Vickers classes it is most informative to a get direct source of the knowledge obtained from those who participated.
Sherman your earlier post was quite long, leave it to me to be the one who stills has a question, lol. :cool: My question in regards to the G2 FCG was specific to Mr. Vickers comments on the subject as I assumed he imparted some advice on the matter to you.
Moose, it could have been one specific thing that went wrong, or several that worked together.
Sherman's an extremely competent shooter and there is no fault in the way he handled anything. I didn't get to see what happened, but I'm thinking it could be something as simple as the dust cover not stopping the safety from travelling too far up, and allowing the FCG to trip.
Again, I wasn't right there when it happened though. Combining a retro engineered US receiver with a retro engineered US FCG and a military selector....who knows. Just make sure that the gear that you have is fit well and working well.
Sherman said it hadn't happened before and he hasn't been able to replicate it, so it could be just a one time freak occurrence and one more reason we have the 4 Cardinal rules of gun safety.
Some pretty interesting stuff going on here. If the owner is around, I'd love to hear more about this gun.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b379/jamesyeager/Vickers%20AK/VickersAK26.jpg
Thanks for the great write up and pics, fellas. I was bummed I couldn't make it out for at least one day.
Larry, once you have a more definite opinion on the Tech Sights, I'd love to hear it. I've been eager to throw them onto my test platform AK to take it even further towards that KTR-03 you have.
Subzero, "Gunny Highway" as Larry dubbed him, is a young active duty Marine who isn't a member here.
He's running a Romanian SAR-1 with a Mojo rear sight. The speed tab on his safety was installed by a local gun smith in his area.
He's got a clamp on the gas tube and is running his light there, which was a hell of a good idea as long as you don't clamp too tight and crimp the gas tube.
Good dude, good shooter too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20AK%20Class/Class%206%20TD1%20050110%20Full/P1040582.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-10, 13:51
Sherman said it hadn't happened before and he hasn't been able to replicate it, so it could be just a one time freak occurrence and one more reason we have the 4 Cardinal rules of gun safety.
Roger that, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that this was some freak occurrence.
Sherman,
Those are awesome gloves, where did you get them :) Seriously great reviews guys. I am hoping Mr. Smith can bring Larry to a class here in Louisville (Knob Creek) again. I would love to take his AK class. See you guys at HRCC in October.
Rebecca could have a blooming second career.
John
We will get Larry hear in 2011. I have already talked to him on the mater.
We will get Larry hear in 2011. I have already talked to him on the mater.
Great news Joe, sign me up!!
Gents - looks like a great class! Larry's AK classes rock and lots of good info to get there. I took it in 2009 and it was great.
Like seeing some different setups there.
Robb Jensen
05-05-10, 20:47
Great AARs guys. I've trained under LAV twice now. I wish more, he's one hell of an instructor and is one of the best when it comes to identifying where you need help with your shooting. He's more about the quality of the training vs. ballistic masturbation and I respect that.
On the AK triggers I agree, I've seen many not truly 'drop-in'. It's important to function check after installing stuff like this.
GermanSynergy
05-05-10, 20:57
Here's a cool pic of me and another shooter :D
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/funny.jpg
and another....
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/aK_2.jpg
Here are some more:
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/LAV445.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/Steel.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/LAV555.jpg
I am glad to hear that Larry. I was contacted by a friend to give some light on this issue. When we sent you the sight base, it is a bit chaotic prior to adjustment and it can be a little tricky, once it is dialed in, it WILL stay zeroed.
I have probably put down 4k+ down my AKs with the tech-sites installed and never had an issue with them keeping zero. I shoot high power with them (our club is 200 yards only, thus shooting reduced 600 yards target) for 2 years now and sites have been dead on.
We had a customer install it on another Romy, and it was fine. I really dont know what went wrong, but would be happy to give any input/help on the matter, so feel free to email me, you have my contact info.
there are a few things to keep in mind regarding tech sites. They manufactured for those who used to shoot m-14s, m4s, m1s, and so fourth. Guys who prefer peeps/cannot see the AK blade leaf very well.
I personally dont run these on my regular AKs, but match guns only for shooting bulls eye and so fourth. for CQB one cannot beat standard AK sight.
so it really up to the shooter to find what they really like, and so fourth.
regarding the requirement of having 3 arms to remove the damn thing, yes..there is some truth to it. For many used to it, it is a non-issue, but for those just getting started with them, I agree, it can be a royal pain in the ass.
depending on the manufacturer of the rifle, the dust cover will have a bit of play. This was done to achieve maximum compatibilities with many AKs. My veprs are super tight. Almost no play
My buddies romy g wobbles like crazy, but maintains zero.
anyhow Larry, looks like the class was a blast, I wish I was there. I guess its already been a year since I was there last. Time flies.
perhaps I will make it next year....
take care
Vasiliy
p.s. Tim, i am still in the market for hiring you for my wedding, since you take the best pix!!!!:D
I'm not ready to give up on the Tech Sights quite yet
To be honest I never really took the time to get a good zero - I was adjusting on the fly which is never a good idea but common when you are the lead instructor and the class must go on
The frustrating part is I put them on my traveling AK - a Romy that was plenty accurate and had a great zero - I finally gave up and went to my tricked out Arsenal 106 with Micro - which has a good zero and allowed me to hit the 12" x 12' plate at 200 yds offhand
One thing I will say about the Tech Sight setup is because of the design requirements it now makes getting the top cover off quick and easy virtually impossible - which can be a problem with some malfunction clearance situations
So let me get a good zero and give the Tech Sight a real shake out - then I will tell you what i think
Cheers
LAV
I am glad to hear that Larry. I was contacted by a friend to give some light on this issue. When we sent you the sight base, it is a bit chaotic prior to adjustment and it can be a little tricky, once it is dialed in, it WILL stay zeroed.
I have probably put down 4k+ down my AKs with the tech-sites installed and never had an issue with them keeping zero. I shoot high power with them (our club is 200 yards only, thus shooting reduced 600 yards target) for 2 years now and sites have been dead on.
We had a customer install it on another Romy, and it was fine. I really dont know what went wrong, but would be happy to give any input/help on the matter, so feel free to email me, you have my contact info.
there are a few things to keep in mind regarding tech sites. They manufactured for those who used to shoot m-14s, m4s, m1s, and so fourth. Guys who prefer peeps/cannot see the AK blade leaf very well.
I personally dont run these on my regular AKs, but match guns only for shooting bulls eye and so fourth. for CQB one cannot beat standard AK sight.
so it really up to the shooter to find what they really like, and so fourth.
regarding the requirement of having 3 arms to remove the damn thing, yes..there is some truth to it. For many used to it, it is a non-issue, but for those just getting started with them, I agree, it can be a royal pain in the ass.
depending on the manufacturer of the rifle, the dust cover will have a bit of play. This was done to achieve maximum compatibilities with many AKs. My veprs are super tight. Almost no play
My buddies romy g wobbles like crazy, but maintains zero.
anyhow Larry, looks like the class was a blast, I wish I was there. I guess its already been a year since I was there last. Time flies.
perhaps I will make it next year....
take care
Vasiliy
p.s. Tim, i am still in the market for hiring you for my wedding, since you take the best pix!!!!:D
Nice to see you pop in over here! Hope all is well with you and yours....
Sounds like a great class to attend. I'll be looking forward to the day when I have the time to travel to one of those classes.
I had a quick question about the gear on of the students was using. I see one of the guys was using some alice pouches on an lbe. Does anyone know how he fared using that setup? I've been looking at picking up a few of those pouches, but I don't think I've ever seen somebody use them.
Nice to see you pop in over here! Hope all is well with you and yours....
hey man! Mine are fine, thanks, getting big..as well as more and more handfull.
what about yours?
PM me your contact info, i lost it long time ago:cool:
threeheadeddog
05-07-10, 22:40
I saw a set of xs sights in the pics. How did they fair considering the accuracy standard that LAV has?
I saw a set of xs sights in the pics. How did they fair considering the accuracy standard that LAV has?
I'm curious too. I used them for a while, but I'm a much better shooter now using Warrens.
NCPatrolAR
05-11-10, 18:41
I saw a set of xs sights in the pics. How did they fair considering the accuracy standard that LAV has?
I believe I read elsewhere that the traditional sight shooters fared much better that the people using the XS sights.
John_Wayne777
06-09-10, 20:34
I've moved the discussion of XS sights here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=678419&posted=1#post678419
Bulldog1967
10-01-10, 18:56
Man I HAVE to get myself back to a LAV AK class!
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