View Full Version : Caracal pistol coming soon
Assy Mcgee
05-03-10, 19:00
interesting find. this gun has less parts than glocks, lowest bore axis of any pistol in the world, and was designed by the former glock & stery m9 designer.
caracal company videos:
YouTube - Caracal Paris (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E50Z_yjpHcI)
YouTube - Caracal Roma (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7uXLiPc98)
http://www.defensivecarry.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Caracalbrochure003.jpg
Click to enlarge
http://www.caracal-consulting.com/caracal-pistol-pictures/bv000002.jpg
http://www.caracal.ae/web//images/products/cf1.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Caracal/671898.gif
found a pic of the subcompact model and specs:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/attachments/defensive-carry-guns/17521d1267072875-new-caracal-polymer-pistol-has-less-parts-than-glock-super-c.jpg
Caracal SC sub-compact pistol, with fibre glass front sight insert and magazine with a finger rest for extra grip:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Caracal_SC.JPG
9mm
Weight: 22.93 oz
Height: 4.4"
Width: .9"
Capacity: 13+1
Before being put into production the Caracal pistol was evaluated through independent tests. These tests were carried out by the Federal German Armed Forces Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in Meppen, Germany[2] which included metallurgic and composite analysis, functional fitness-for-purpose and quality evaluation, endurance firing, environmental exposure, safety and accuracy tests. A certificate was issued by the Bundeswehr Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in May 2006 after the pistol successfully complied with the NATO D14 standard, the German Federal Police Standard and the German Federal Armed Forces Technical Purchasing requirements. These tests are the most stringent test protocols ever devised for a service firearm.
The pistols were unveiled at the International Defence Exhibition, IDEX 2007 in Abu Dhabi.
In February 2007 25,000 Caracal F pistols in 9 mm were ordered by various armies and security forces of the Gulf Cooperation Council countries.[3] The Caracal pistol is now the new service pistol of the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Jordan as of April, 2008. The United Arab Emirates and Algeria established on November, 17th, 2008 a joint committee in order to test the Caracal pistol for further adoption by Algeria. The Caracal pistols were originally slated to be introduced into the European market and made available to Austrian customers in early 2009[4]; this was rectified at the IDEX 2009 exhibition, when Caracal announced that an export line to Italy was to be started with "the first samples delivered immediately after the IDEX"[5]. The Caracal pistols have been introduced on the Italian civilian/sport shooters market during the 2009 EXA expo (Brescia, 18–21 April 2009), and are being imported by the Italian arms company Fratelli Tanfoglio S.N.C.
nice width .9" NICE!
nice bore axis
missed the chance to have ergo grips ala M&P, HKP30, etc.
unknown maker, quality, etc. competition is good for the market and end user
Some mighty fine speed reholstering in those videos...
I'm curious to know how much it will cost compared to a Glock, and if it will live up to it's reliability. Somehow, I doubt it.
One thing's for sure, it beats it in an ugly contest...
spamsammich
05-03-10, 20:36
same designer as the Steyr M and S series pistols IIRC. I hope they have better triggers than my M-A1s, talk about mushy reset and too many parts.
Assy Mcgee
05-03-10, 21:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwccqe7E_8o&feature=PlayList&p=59F85D93EF663964&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=45
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/safety.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwccqe7E_8o&feature=PlayList&p=59F85D93EF663964&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=45
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/waterhouse/safety.gif
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That's T-shirt material, right there.
Dragon Slayer
05-04-10, 01:17
What is the country of origin of this pistols?
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 01:19
What is the country of origin of this pistols?
UAE
United Arab Emirates.
At a modest below Glock price point - I'm game. To my eyes it looks like it would point like a P7 which from my few years with one, is a very good thing in my hands.
I predict this will be as successful as the Steyr M9.
Maybe.
I predict this will be as successful as the Steyr M9.
Maybe.
+1000 :D
Moose-Knuckle
05-04-10, 08:51
Seems more and more polymer framed striker fired handguns are coming to market.
SpookyPistolero
05-04-10, 08:56
Given the current marketplace, I think it'd have to have a very good trigger to survive, especially with the lack of interchangable backstraps.
GermanSynergy
05-04-10, 08:57
I predict this will be as successful as the Steyr M9.
Maybe.
IIRC the same guy that designed the Steyr M9 was behind this pistol as well. MAYBE they can manage to sell some of these to clients in the Middle East. MAYBE......
Dragon Slayer
05-04-10, 10:38
I am not buying no Arab produced gun and sending them money so they can support all the terrorist organizations in the middle east. The hell with them.:mad:
I am not buying no Arab produced gun and sending them money so they can support all the terrorist organizations in the middle east. The hell with them.:mad:
lmao, why am I not surprised a post like this was going to pop up?
"Them gawd damn turrists!":D
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 10:44
I am not buying no Arab produced gun and sending them money so they can support all the terrorist organizations in the middle east. The hell with them.:mad:
unless your vehicles run on good intentions, you already support the middle east.....and they're not all terrorists ;)
The majority of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico. However, we do give billions to those bastards. Not going to give anymore than I have to; especially to a more than likely not as good as pistol manufacturer.
Knock it off right now, move back to talking about the pistol.
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 10:54
Knock it off right now, move back to talking about the pistol.
thank you. i really didn't want my thread to turn into a political debate. :)
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 10:59
I predict this will be as successful as the Steyr M9.
Maybe.
it's already a success in the countries that have adopted it.
if it performs as advertised, is as durable and reliable as glock, along with a preolitheration of cheap parts on the market, it may give the glock a run for it's money in the US market. certainly not easy criteria to meet.
i'm going to wait for the guinea pigs, er...i mean initial purchasers, to check it's performance. if all's well, i think i would consider buying one.
it's simplicity and low bore axis is pretty impressive.
Littlelebowski
05-04-10, 11:05
it's already a success in the countries that have adopted it.
if it performs as advertised, is as durable and reliable as glock, along with a preolitheration of cheap parts on the market, it may give the glock a run for it's money in the US market. certainly not easy criteria to meet.
i'm going to wait for the guinea pigs, er...i mean initial purchasers, to check it's performance. if all's well, i think i would consider buying one.
it's simplicity and low bore axis is pretty impressive.
Are you talking about the S&W M&P :D
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 11:06
Are you talking about the S&W M&P :D
touche. :)
except for the preolitheration of cheap parts on the market.....:eek:
By "coming soon" what are we talking about here? Six months, a year, two years?
For some strange reason im attracted to the pistol. Sure there are a few negatives there that may or may not be unfounded political bias but that doesnt over ride my desire for the latest and greatest. :)
I really like the bore axis, it seems to point very much like a P7 which i love.
Who will be importing these? Anyone have any price points?
How can you say it is as durable and reliable as a Glock? Glock has millions of pistols out that have proven their durability and reliability. I'm speaking more specifically about the G17/19 platform. I am as yet unaware that the Carcal has as many pistols out in the hands of as many professionals as the Glock; especially low drag/high speed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've been aware of the Caracal (and designer Willi Bubits) for some time. I wanted to be impressed by my previous Steyr M40; in some ways it had the potential of being a sort of a product-improved Glock G23, but ultimately repeated malfunctioning/jams turned me off.
My question regarding the Caracal is this: One, inherently as a gun, what specifically does it do/do better that a comparable fielded pistol (i.e., Glock, M&P, HK, et al) doesn't (other than to provide an indigenously manufactured gun for the Middle East)?
Second, how/who provides after-market support, and what is their support level and anticipated response time? In addition to the intrinsic qualities inherent to Glocks, this is a crucial additional area where they've excelled. Even if you buy into Thomas Friedman's contention that the 21st century world is rendered flat by the internet and other service providers, if I can't get sufficient magazines (and at a reasonable/market competitive price), and/or have to send a problematic gun to the UAE for servicing...my enthusiasm level is somewhat less than pegged. (And, come to think of it, these are also some of the reasons I've chosen to remain with Glock as opposed to HK...)
Best, Jon
I, too like the P7 looks, capacity, small size and design.
Price point will be a biggie for me. I'm pretty sure I saw UAE SF dudes working with us last year who had these. I thought they were P7s at the time, but now that I see this, I'm not so sure.
QuickStrike
05-04-10, 17:33
Looks kinda interesting. I'll see how it pans out.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
Assy Mcgee
05-04-10, 17:38
How can you say it is as durable and reliable as a Glock? Glock has millions of pistols out that have proven their durability and reliability. I'm speaking more specifically about the G17/19 platform. I am as yet unaware that the Carcal has as many pistols out in the hands of as many professionals as the Glock; especially low drag/high speed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
re-read my post plz. i said "if". ;)
I think it has real potential, its main nemesis will be the reputation of its competators rather than any real merits they have, imho.
Given all the criteria that the pistol apparently posses I'd definetly look into one if they can be had for under $450. If not then its not worth it given what else is on the market.
Haj pistols...whats next?
I just wish Gaston would do something about that nasty grip angle is all...
ChicagoTex
05-05-10, 02:20
I think the UAE pedigree will be a problem. Not necessarily because people are gonna think that it's made by terrorists (and, for the record, those who are familiar with the middle-east know that the UAE is one of the most progressive nations in it and one of the least associated with terrorist groups in that region) but because Americans aren't really aware of what the UAE is capable of in terms of engineering, QC, quality, etc.
I mean, everybody knows the Austrians, Germans and Swiss are meticulous with their mechanics and we've seen plenty of surplus AKs from 3rd world countries like Yugoslavia and Romania so we would know what to expect from a pistol produced by one of these nations, but we don't really know what to expect from the UAE.
So the national manufacturing identity of the UAE is currently a somewhat unknown quantity, we don't know how their support network is going to be setup (or even if this company intends to support it's weapons to end users) and the pistol looks seriously funky. As another poster alluded to in talking about triggers, this pistol is really going to need something that stands out to make it competitive in the US Market (such as a great trigger, or a staggeringly good price). Otherwise, I would indeed expect it to do even worse than the Steyr (which at least had Austrian pedigree behind it).
Either way, though, I'll bet if it's even half-ass reliable they get some good sales from neighboring middle eastern national militaries who'll be able to buy it for next to nothing. This sure beats 70 year old neglected GP35s IMO.
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 04:42
I think the UAE pedigree will be a problem. Not necessarily because people are gonna think that it's made by terrorists (and, for the record, those who are familiar with the middle-east know that the UAE is one of the most progressive nations in it and one of the least associated with terrorist groups in that region) but because Americans aren't really aware of what the UAE is capable of in terms of engineering, QC, quality, etc.
I mean, everybody knows the Austrians, Germans and Swiss are meticulous with their mechanics and we've seen plenty of surplus AKs from 3rd world countries like Yugoslavia and Romania so we would know what to expect from a pistol produced by one of these nations, but we don't really know what to expect from the UAE.
So the national manufacturing identity of the UAE is currently a somewhat unknown quantity, we don't know how their support network is going to be setup (or even if this company intends to support it's weapons to end users) and the pistol looks seriously funky. As another poster alluded to in talking about triggers, this pistol is really going to need something that stands out to make it competitive in the US Market (such as a great trigger, or a staggeringly good price). Otherwise, I would indeed expect it to do even worse than the Steyr (which at least had Austrian pedigree behind it).
good point.
they have been showing dubai's architectural, design, and engineering marvels a lot on nat geo recently though.
there's no question that they spare no expense to produce quality. i don't see the caracel as being the one exception.
Either way, though, I'll bet if it's even half-ass reliable they get some good sales from neighboring middle eastern national militaries who'll be able to buy it for next to nothing. This sure beats 70 year old neglected GP35s IMO.
Before being put into production the Caracal pistol was evaluated through independent tests. These tests were carried out by the Federal German Armed Forces Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in Meppen, Germany[2] which included metallurgic and composite analysis, functional fitness-for-purpose and quality evaluation, endurance firing, environmental exposure, safety and accuracy tests. A certificate was issued by the Bundeswehr Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in May 2006 after the pistol successfully complied with the NATO D14 standard, the German Federal Police Standard and the German Federal Armed Forces Technical Purchasing requirements. These tests are the most stringent test protocols ever devised for a service firearm.
......
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 04:45
By "coming soon" what are we talking about here? Six months, a year, two years?
For some strange reason im attracted to the pistol. Sure there are a few negatives there that may or may not be unfounded political bias but that doesnt over ride my desire for the latest and greatest. :)
I really like the bore axis, it seems to point very much like a P7 which i love.
Who will be importing these? Anyone have any price points?
On 15 January 2009 Caracal received an export licence from the United States, which will enable it to ship its products to the United States.[6] According to Caracal's commercial director Saeed Ali Al Shamsi, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms gave its approval for sales in the United States in May 2009 and the company plans to embark on a soft launch of the firearms in America in 2010 with the handguns selling for up to USD 720 (AED 2,650) in North America.
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 04:46
http://www.tanfoglio.it/upload_dinamici/immaginid/2009/CARACAL-NEWS.jpg
Partnered with Tanfoglio for Europe?
I suppose maybe they'll partner up with some importer for the U.S. then? EAA or similar?
Looks really neat.
As far as adjustable back straps, I don't think its that big of an issue. One less thing to go wrong.
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-10, 07:07
I predict this pistol will be a real bitch in the slide bite department with it's ultra low bore axis. Looking at the pistol again there is not much of a beaver rail to protect the webbing of one's hand.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-05-10, 07:22
I will pick one up and try it out if the price is sane.
My bad for not paying attention to the "if.":cool:
I don't personally buy into the front stock business, but the rest of it looks pretty slick.
I like it.
Looks really neat.
As far as adjustable back straps, I don't think its that big of an issue. One less thing to go wrong.
Yeah, i hate it when the backstraps on my M&P fall off and beat up a third grader in the neighboring town... Come on man, while i hear what you're saying a properly designed firearm with adjustable backstraps is no less durable than one without.
Yeah i know, sarcasm overload on that one. ;)
720 is the MSRP or...? Im going to be hard pressed to justify the price of one of these if they're actually selling for over 700 USD.
I predict this will be as successful as the Steyr M9.
Maybe.
If it is sold as the "United Arab Emirates Caracal" - I agree - certain failure in the USA.
OTOH, if they simply remark the EXACT SAME GUN as something like:
"Springfield Armory CP-9" or
"Colt CP9" or
"Armalite AR-9"
-it would sell like hot-cakes.
Doubt that?
Then explain the success of the Springfield XD where the HS2000 failed, or the failure of the Turkish Huglu where the AR-24 succedes, or the fact that Colt was on the verge of selling Colt Z40s made in the Czech Republic even though there was nothing "Colt" about them beyond the name?
I am sad to report that many U.S. handgun buyers are rather ignorant.
I used to own the Steyr M357. It was a well made pistol, but it wasn't very reliable. The loaded chamber indicator practically destroyed the brass, and it caused the occasional failure to go into battery when the pistol got dirty. Also, in order to get the extremely low bore axis, the extractor could not be positioned 90 degrees to the casing which is the most reliable setup used in Sigs, Glocks, HKs, M&Ps,...etc. The Steyr extractor was canted down at almost a 45 degree angle to position the barrel so low. This caused additional friction on the surfaces of the slide and extractor when the pistol got dirty. Lastly, the grip was angled so much that your natural point of aim made the pistol shoot high. It was not a good pointer, and it was even more difficult to do a proper thumbs forward wrist cant grip.
My feeling on the Steyr is that the designer was so focused on achieving "his" ideal ergonomics that he compromised elements of reliabilty. Rule number one in firearms selection is always reliability. It looks like the Caracal designer(Wilhelm Bubits) is still pushing the Steyr concept which is fine so long as the reliability is there. As far as the stock goes, if you have enough room to carry it you have enough room to pack a compact long gun in a rifle caliber giving you a far superior combat advantage over a pistol caliber with a 6" sight radius. I'd rather have removable backstraps.
If it is sold as the "United Arab Emirates Caracal" - I agree - certain failure in the USA.
OTOH, if they simply remark the EXACT SAME GUN as something like:
"Springfield Armory CP-9" or
"Colt CP9" or
"Armalite AR-9"
-it would sell like hot-cakes.
Doubt that?
Then explain the success of the Springfield XD where the HS2000 failed, or the failure of the Turkish Huglu where the AR-24 succedes, or the fact that Colt was on the verge of selling Colt Z40s made in the Czech Republic even though there was nothing "Colt" about them beyond the name?
I am sad to report that many U.S. handgun buyers are rather ignorant.
I would agree. It is as much about marketing as it is about actual performance. Maybe Remington could release it. It could be their follow up to their 1911 entry:rolleyes:
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 13:20
I will pick one up and try it out if the price is sane.
initial reports are indicating a possible MSRP of $700. who knows how accurate that is though.
they won't be selling as many unless they can get the price point closer to glock's.
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 13:21
I predict this pistol will be a real bitch in the slide bite department with it's ultra low bore axis. Looking at the pistol again there is not much of a beaver rail to protect the webbing of one's hand.
this is one instance where i'm glad to have small hands :D
I would agree. It is as much about marketing as it is about actual performance. Maybe Remington could release it. It could be their follow up to their 1911 entry:rolleyes:
Or maybe their adaptive combat rifle we were all promised:o
sniperfrog
05-05-10, 16:51
I got to shoot the first two Caracals in the US, a full size and a compact. A friend at work has alot of contacts in the industry and was asked to try them out. He went through alot with ATF but finally got them.
We put about 400 rounds through each gun. We had a few failure to ejects with both guns.
The gun does sit very low in the hand and is easy to shoot. It's a pretty basic looking design. I didn't experience any issues with the slide coming back but I have small hands.
The compact I shot had the rear sight milled into the slide forward of the ejection port. While the sight radius was very short, it was still easy to shoot good groups from about 10 yards.
It was very fast to pick up the sights on the compact but I'm not sure I liked having the rear sight that far forward and not removable.
Overall, I liked the compact a little better than the full size. It just fit my hand well and was easy to shoot.
I don't think I would ever buy one but it was cool to shoot it.
My friend is going to suggest some changes so we'll see what happens.
This friend was the first distributor of the HS2000 (now XD) in the US until Springfield pulled the rug out from under him.
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 17:08
I got to shoot the first two Caracals in the US, a full size and a compact. A friend at work has alot of contacts in the industry and was asked to try them out. He went through alot with ATF but finally got them.
We put about 400 rounds through each gun. We had a few failure to ejects with both guns.
The gun does sit very low in the hand and is easy to shoot. It's a pretty basic looking design. I didn't experience any issues with the slide coming back but I have small hands.
The compact I shot had the rear sight milled into the slide forward of the ejection port. While the sight radius was very short, it was still easy to shoot good groups from about 10 yards.
It was very fast to pick up the sights on the compact but I'm not sure I liked having the rear sight that far forward and not removable.
Overall, I liked the compact a little better than the full size. It just fit my hand well and was easy to shoot.
I don't think I would ever buy one but it was cool to shoot it.
My friend is going to suggest some changes so we'll see what happens.
This friend was the first distributor of the HS2000 (now XD) in the US until Springfield pulled the rug out from under him.
cool. do you know the msrp, or availability dates?
Or maybe their adaptive combat rifle we were all promised:o
Agreed
I was interested at first, but the $700 price tag is a major turn off for me. At the $700 price point I'm getting into HK type pricing. Nothing wrong but if I'm spending serious money I want it on a proven design and such.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-05-10, 18:29
No way they charge $700 for this. I would bet something in the low 4s.
Assy Mcgee
05-05-10, 18:39
No way they charge $700 for this. I would bet something in the low 4s.
i wouldn't think so either. i'm thinkin maybe $500, tops.
TheSmiter1
05-05-10, 18:49
The suggested retail price of the M&P is put at $719 by Smith and Wesson on their website. Without night sights.
This gun may be the same case, as far as super high MSRP vs actual retail price are concerned.
The suggested retail price of the M&P is put at $719 by Smith and Wesson on their website. Without night sights.
This gun may be the same case, as far as super high MSRP vs actual retail price are concerned.
Hence the reason why i asked if that 700 dollar price that was loosely thrown out earlier was the MSRP or the supposed retail price.
There is a difference between the two.
TheSmiter1
05-06-10, 00:37
Hence the reason why i asked if that 700 dollar price that was loosely thrown out earlier was the MSRP or the supposed retail price.
There is a difference between the two.
I hope, for the sake of this newcomer to the market, that it is merely a suggested retail price, and not what it will actually cost. Price point would be this weapon's saving grace.
touche. :)
except for the preolitheration of cheap parts on the market.....:eek:
i'm curious why everyone always brings up "cheap parts on the market" for glocks. most of the aftermarket "pimp my glock" stuff is just junk/harmful to reliabity. i DO like the fact that most of the OEM parts are easily available and around 5 dollars though. :D
Assy Mcgee
05-06-10, 01:52
i'm curious why everyone always brings up "cheap parts on the market" for glocks. most of the aftermarket "pimp my glock" stuff is just junk/harmful to reliabity. i DO like the fact that most of the OEM parts are easily available and around 5 dollars though. :D
every part on the glock is available from online, and local vendors cheap, save for the frame.
i've changed out my g19 to a smoothface trigger, NY-1 spring, and glock 3.5lb connector, for example.
Dragon Slayer
05-06-10, 09:42
every part on the glock is available from online, and local vendors cheap, save for the frame.
i've changed out my g19 to a smoothface trigger, NY-1 spring, and glock 3.5lb connector, for example.
The Glock complete frames are also available on line from "Glockmeister" for $240.00 shipped. I bought a Glock 30 SF complete frame from them.
I had a Steyr M9A1 from CDNN. The price point ($379) was probably the weapon's main attraction. I got to handle, not shoot, one at a local shop and it felt good in hand.
I agree that it isn't very ergonomically friendly for the modern iso thumbs forward grip, but I started out shooting modified weaver when I first started so it seemed fine for that.
Aside from that, everything went down hill. I had tons of issues with extraction (8 FText for every 100 rounds). This was eventually fully corrected by getting an updated extractor from SAI. The gun, on two or three occasions, would not fully go into battery, but would lock up with a live round in it that required very careful pulling back HARD on the slide, with the weapon facing downrange, while pressing the trigger. I hope that this gun isn't anything like the Steyr.
I couldn't ever trust it again and sold it.
This new gun, with the UAE stamped on the slide may not do very well unless it's redistributed.
I used to own the Steyr M357. It was a well made pistol, but it wasn't very reliable. The loaded chamber indicator practically destroyed the brass, and it caused the occasional failure to go into battery when the pistol got dirty. Also, in order to get the extremely low bore axis, the extractor could not be positioned 90 degrees to the casing which is the most reliable setup used in Sigs, Glocks, HKs, M&Ps,...etc. The Steyr extractor was canted down at almost a 45 degree angle to position the barrel so low. This caused additional friction on the surfaces of the slide and extractor when the pistol got dirty. Lastly, the grip was angled so much that your natural point of aim made the pistol shoot high. It was not a good pointer, and it was even more difficult to do a proper thumbs forward wrist cant grip.
My feeling on the Steyr is that the designer was so focused on achieving "his" ideal ergonomics that he compromised elements of reliabilty. Rule number one in firearms selection is always reliability. It looks like the Caracal designer(Wilhelm Bubits) is still pushing the Steyr concept which is fine so long as the reliability is there. As far as the stock goes, if you have enough room to carry it you have enough room to pack a compact long gun in a rifle caliber giving you a far superior combat advantage over a pistol caliber with a 6" sight radius. I'd rather have removable backstraps.
Assy Mcgee
05-06-10, 14:29
The Glock complete frames are also available on line from "Glockmeister" for $240.00 shipped. I bought a Glock 30 SF complete frame from them.
right. i was referring to oem parts.
GermanSynergy
05-06-10, 23:44
Here's a promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSMaBhtcZ0M
Don Robison
05-07-10, 07:40
Partnered with Tanfoglio for Europe?
I suppose maybe they'll partner up with some importer for the U.S. then? EAA or similar?
The importer is the same company that imported the HS2000 out of Knoxville.
This friend was the first distributor of the HS2000 (now XD) in the US until Springfield pulled the rug out from under him.
ETA: Sorry didn't see you had answered it already. If you're talking about Tim I shot with him at a class this last weekend in GA and we were talking about how they lost the HS2000.
eternal24k
05-07-10, 08:41
I am really liking the compact
Dragon Slayer
05-07-10, 09:44
I am really liking the compact
What do you like about it? Have you shot it? Is it reliable? Is it accurate? Is it durable? How is the service from the company? Can you find parts easily? So many questions.:confused:
Sorry not trying to pick on you, this is directed at every body, what is this love affair developing with a gun based only on pictures? :rolleyes:
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 11:38
What do you like about it? Have you shot it? Is it reliable? Is it accurate? Is it durable? How is the service from the company? Can you find parts easily? So many questions.:confused:
Sorry not trying to pick on you, this is directed at every body, what is this love affair developing with a gun based only on pictures? :rolleyes:
we all have questions, but if you'll read the OP, instead of simply looking at the pictures--you'll see that there's more than just pictures to support this gun's effectiveness. ;)
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 11:39
Here's a promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSMaBhtcZ0M
do you have another link? that one comes up error.
thanx
What do you like about it? Have you shot it? Is it reliable? Is it accurate? Is it durable? How is the service from the company? Can you find parts easily? So many questions.:confused:
Sorry not trying to pick on you, this is directed at every body, what is this love affair developing with a gun based only on pictures? :rolleyes:
Actually, since you asked, I can see in the pictures that it is possibly more ergo, with a lower bore line to grip, than comparable pistols. It also resembles the P7, which I liked very much.
I think it holds promise.
Added to that, adding industrial capacity to the middle east can solve some problems there. Which can solve some problems, here. So I like to see things like this coming from countries like UAE.
GermanSynergy
05-07-10, 13:17
I'd be willing to try one if the company would subsidize the ammo:D
and I got to shoot it till it broke ;)
eternal24k
05-07-10, 13:19
What do you like about it? Have you shot it? Is it reliable? Is it accurate? Is it durable? How is the service from the company? Can you find parts easily? So many questions.:confused:
Sorry not trying to pick on you, this is directed at every body, what is this love affair developing with a gun based only on pictures? :rolleyes:
Im sorry, I guess I should have mentioned what parts I liked about,
I like the concept of the design, the dimensions with capacity, and just a new product on the market. I guess I shouldn't mention I also like the new BMW S1000rr since I have never ridden one and I cant find parts and dont know if it's reliable yet.
The love affair is nothing new, unless you have never noticed that pic threads are the most common and popular on forums :rolleyes:
Dragon Slayer
05-07-10, 14:41
Actually, since you asked, I can see in the pictures that it is possibly more ergo, with a lower bore line to grip, than comparable pistols. It also resembles the P7, which I liked very much.
I think it holds promise.
Added to that, adding industrial capacity to the middle east can solve some problems there. Which can solve some problems, here. So I like to see things like this coming from countries like UAE.
Sorry but being an ex Israeli and having dealt with the mind frame of the ME and quality of products that come from there I am very much a skeptic on any product from that area except from Israel.
Also considering the embargo on any company that dealt with Israel or was from Israel by the countries from the ME which still exists, I do not think the manufacturing of guns in any of these countries will solve or change their mindset, it is not like this countries are poor and need an industrial revolution to become more open minded.
Dragon Slayer
05-07-10, 14:47
The love affair is nothing new, unless you have never noticed that pic threads are the most common and popular on forums :rolleyes:
I love pictures of new guns also, but like the picture of a beautiful woman that might be a good companion for one quick tryst but not for a long time association and dependence on for many years, I use my sense of value and judgment when it comes to guns also.;)
Specially when I know where that woman/gun is coming from.;)
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 14:56
Sorry but being an ex Israeli and having dealt with the mind frame of the ME and quality of products that come from there I am very much a skeptic on any product from that area except from Israel.
Also considering the embargo on any company that dealt with Israel or was from Israel by the countries from the ME which still exists, I do not think the manufacturing of guns in any of these countries will solve or change their mindset, it is not like this countries are poor and need an industrial revolution to become more open minded.
we're not interested in hearing the reasons for your prejudices.
plz respond to the design of the pistol, as a mod has already stated in this thread--keep it on topic!
Sorry but being an ex Israeli and having dealt with the mind frame of the ME and quality of products that come from there I am very much a skeptic on any product from that area except from Israel.
Also considering the embargo on any company that dealt with Israel or was from Israel by the countries from the ME which still exists, I do not think the manufacturing of guns in any of these countries will solve or change their mindset, it is not like this countries are poor and need an industrial revolution to become more open minded.
I agree with this. Though I am not all that impressed with some of the weapons that Israel produces either, I am thinking Desert Eagle;)
we're not interested in hearing the reasons for your prejudices.
plz respond to the design of the pistol, as a mod has already stated in this thread--keep it on topic!
Settle down Francis. He was merely responding to comments made by 120mm. Personally I don't have much faith in anything that comes out of the middle east but for different reasons
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 15:16
Settle down Francis. He was merely responding to comments made by 120mm. Personally I don't have much faith in anything that comes out of the middle east but for different reasons
*facepalm*
Dragon Slayer
05-07-10, 15:42
Aside from other prejudices I am very much prejudiced about the quality, customer service, ability to deal with issues and people of the companies and the things that are manufactured and come from the ME.
BTW others have expressed the same sentiments as I have about the origin of this product not only me in this thread.
I agree with Abraxas, on warrior Talk forums when I used to be there a friend from Florida which some here know very well who he was if they were on WT, sent me a Jericho 45 ACP pistol as a gift through the legal FFL channels, the gun turned out to be a POS and in the end went back to the distributor Charles Daly and I got the cash for it and ended up buying a Glock 30SF, so nothing is guaranteed no matter where it comes from.
I do not care if someone here wants to listen to what I am saying or not I am saying it to warn you on products from certain parts of this world, their quality, and all other things that might be of importance to us all.
*facepalm*
Look, like it or not most of the countries in the middle east are third world with first world enclaves, UAE included. Third world countries are not known for their QC. All of the political complaints are truly peripheral and not the point. Damn you are uptight:rolleyes:
I've already said this once before....
Knock off the political bullshit.
I don't think this thing will succeed, but I'm really getting tired of someone with an axe to grind shitting on the thread.
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 17:35
I've already said this once before....
Knock off the political bullshit.
I don't think this thing will succeed, but I'm really getting tired of someone with an axe to grind shitting on the thread.
thanx again. hopefully your warning will be heeded by all this time.
Dragon Slayer
05-07-10, 17:36
I've already said this once before....
Knock off the political bullshit.
I don't think this thing will succeed, but I'm really getting tired of someone with an axe to grind shitting on the thread.
That is fine I am done, it only takes living and learning.:)
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 17:38
interesting news on here:
http://www.caracal-consulting.com/caracal-pistol-latest-news/caracal-pistol-latest-news.html
sniperfrog
05-07-10, 18:13
The importer is the same company that imported the HS2000 out of Knoxville.
ETA: Sorry didn't see you had answered it already. If you're talking about Tim I shot with him at a class this last weekend in GA and we were talking about how they lost the HS2000.
Yeah, It's Tim. He's a damn good shooter. He is one of our range instructors/armorers.
Don Robison
05-07-10, 18:38
Yeah, It's Tim. He's a damn good shooter. He is one of our range instructors/armorers.
Yep, he's a hell of a nice guy too. I've been to a couple of the same classes as him the last few years. I always pick something up from him.
Sorry for the thread hijack guys. Please continue the discussion of third world quality control. :D
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 18:57
Yep, he's a hell of a nice guy too. I've been to a couple of the same classes as him the last few years. I always pick something up from him.
Sorry for the thread hijack guys. Please continue the discussion of third world quality control. :D
not at all. keep us posted if you hear an import date :)
TheSmiter1
05-07-10, 22:18
On the subject of them being a 3rd world country with poor quality control, I looked on the Wikipedia page for the UAE, and it seems that they're not doing too badly. They are a contributor to natural disaster and relief funds, not a receiver, and they have highways and large industrialized cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates
Perhaps the quality control won't be so bad. Frankly, I don't care where a gun is from, as long as it works. We'll just have to see if it works...
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 22:52
On the subject of them being a 3rd world country with poor quality control, I looked on the Wikipedia page for the UAE, and it seems that they're not doing too badly. They are a contributor to natural disaster and relief funds, not a receiver, and they have highways and large industrialized cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates
Perhaps the quality control won't be so bad. Frankly, I don't care where a gun is from, as long as it works. We'll just have to see if it works...
you're right :)
Dubai spends far more money on what they design, engineer, and build than we do. try and find a "cheap looking" building in that whole city.
they're building little island cities for god's sake lol.
they're actually a very rich, and very small, 1st world country. i doubt they're all of a sudden going to "cheap out" on this one product. (which has the potential to bring in an assload more money into their nation)
Assy Mcgee
05-07-10, 22:57
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/Caracal/Caracalsubcompact.jpg
ChicagoTex
05-08-10, 02:03
I see the Caracal as a unique opportunity to witness UAE craftsmanship, design, and customer service tendencies first-hand. As I said before, to US buyers such as myself, they are an unknown quantity and this could turn out to be a wonderful opportunity for them to make a great first impression to the US shooting community.
You can tell me all about how fabulous the buildings in Dubai are, but the Caracal is something I can potentially hold in my hands here in the U.S. and experience for myself.
However, I will also point out that just because the industrialists of the UAE have demonstrated a willingness to throw large amounts of money around does not necessarily mean the products they turn out will be quality. There are certain intangibles like inspiration, work ethic, and a good eye for the BEST solution rather than the most expensive one, that cannot be defined by cashflow. It is these elements that I look most forward to seeing exhibited in and through the Caracal.
Whether it's crap, great, or just another Glock clone, I think we're in for a very interesting and educational ride with this one.
Assy Mcgee
05-08-10, 02:23
I see the Caracal as a unique opportunity to witness UAE craftsmanship, design, and customer service tendencies first-hand. As I said before, to US buyers such as myself, they are an unknown quantity and this could turn out to be a wonderful opportunity for them to make a great first impression to the US shooting community.
You can tell me all about how fabulous the buildings in Dubai are, but the Caracal is something I can potentially hold in my hands here in the U.S. and experience for myself.
However, I will also point out that just because the industrialists of the UAE have demonstrated a willingness to throw large amounts of money around does not necessarily mean the products they turn out will be quality. There are certain intangibles like inspiration, work ethic, and a good eye for the BEST solution rather than the most expensive one, that cannot be defined by cashflow. It is these elements that I look most forward to seeing exhibited in and through the Caracal.
Whether it's crap, great, or just another Glock clone, I think we're in for a very interesting and educational ride with this one.
my previous reference to dubai's architecture & engineering was simply that it's some of the best in the world--which was only in response in to a post claiming this country to be primitive, and "3rd world".
and good work ethic, inspiration, and discerning the best solution certainly are defined by "money flow", as you put it. you get what you pay for......
they hire the finest engineers & designers from around the world (sparing no expense).
i think this can be evidenced by the fact that they hired the glock/steyr designer was hired for this endeavor.
;)
Is it just me or does this pistol look nearly impossible to manually lock the slide back on? The slide catch is resting above a ledge of polymer. It looks easy enough to disengage, but engagement looks like it would be somewhat troublesome by comparison.
Assy Mcgee
05-08-10, 02:48
Is it just me or does this pistol look nearly impossible to manually lock the slide back on? The slide catch is resting above a ledge of polymer. It looks easy enough to disengage, but engagement looks like it would be somewhat troublesome by comparison.
had the same question. they do lock the slide back with pretty quick in the videos though.....
Actually, I thought exactly the opposite. The slide catch looks like a metal stamping, which sticks out and is aggressively turned down.
From the picture above, I figured it would work too good and snagged/actuated accidentally while shooting.
Of course, if that's the case, I just take a mill file and make it right.
Actually, I thought exactly the opposite. The slide catch looks like a metal stamping, which sticks out and is aggressively turned down.
From the picture above, I figured it would work too good and snagged/actuated accidentally while shooting.
Of course, if that's the case, I just take a mill file and make it right.
It is a metal stamping that's been turned down. However, if you look at the photographs, there a ledge of plastic positioned directly below it. That's what I was commenting on.
Does the compact also have the integrated rear sight like on that subcompact model?
If so...fail...in a major way.
ChicagoTex
05-08-10, 08:05
Does the compact also have the integrated rear sight like on that subcompact model?
If so...fail...in a major way.
All three versions are pictured throughout this thread, the full-size and compact have standard dovetailed rear sights, only the subcompact tries to do the integrated tunnel of fail.
Heavy Metal
11-30-11, 21:14
Guys, stumbled on this old thread. Found out some new info.
Looks like they are making the Caracal in Germany now too FWIW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracal_pistol
Hence the reason why i asked if that 700 dollar price that was loosely thrown out earlier was the MSRP or the supposed retail price.
There is a difference between the two.
My money is on a price set to compete against Glock and the M&P. It needs to be reliable and have a good OOTB trigger in order to make a dent in their market share.
The MSRP is now $599 for the US.
An Undocumented Worker
12-01-11, 08:53
Now that the PPQ is out, why would one want to go with a Caracal?
Now that the PPQ is out, why would one want to go with a Caracal?
Now that the Glock has been out for 20 years why would anyone go with anything else? :)
Options brother.
The caracal still hasnt proven itself and they're still absurdly hard to find. I finally got to finger bang one two weeks ago and i was unimpressed. The guns suffer from the same HORRIBLE grip tang as the steyr pistols. It feels like you're trying to wedge the web of your hand into a brick.
For now, no thanks. If i had infinite funds i would get one and run it for shits and giggles but the pistol just doesnt serve any purpose when i already own several Glocks and M&P's.
Moose-Knuckle
12-01-11, 16:05
Now that the Glock has been out for 20 years why would anyone go with anything else?
Because GLOCK took a page out of the Sig USA play book and shot themselves in the foot with their latter Gen3 9mms and Gen 4 9mms. They took what was arguably the most reliable combat handgun in the world and turned it into another gun you have to buy, change out parts, keep your fingers cross, and shoot thousands of rounds just to see if if the damn thing has any extraction issues.
I trust my life each and every day with older Gen 3 G19s and a G17. When I buy my next 9mm, if I can't find a used Gen 3 G17 I may pony up for an HK P30L.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.