View Full Version : 20" Barrels
I was looking at "The Chart" trying to find a barrel/upper for use in sanctioned matches under the service rifle entry.
The problem I'm having is finding a quality 20" barrel. Let alone a complete upper that is going to be legal for use in competition.
According to "The Chart", the only quality barrel I can purchase is BCM. I'm pretty bummed however that they don't have one in CHF. But I guess since it's easier to find a dodo bird than a quality 20" barrel then I shouldn't complain.
I started on the chart from the far left and worked my way to Sabre Defense and BCM is the only company that actually offered a 20" barrel. Now I know that Sabre has one, but the problem is that it is fluted. I'm not sure if that is legal for use in service rifle or not.
Where are people actually buying their barrels from?
xrayoneone
05-03-10, 19:38
FWIW
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167023292
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167236831
I'm not familiar with 'the Chart', but Lothar Walther makes a sweet accurate 20" barrel in med/heavy contour.
ignore the chart for comp rifles. search using: CMP, service rifle, etc. Look up the rules on the CMP website. Basically must look the same from the outside as an A2.
As a teenage service member I shot service rifle with a 13lb AR, a Bushmaster, gasp, heavy barrel and did fine. Eventually my skills merited a Compass Lake upper... shoot what you can get your claws on at a good price.. when your skill eventually overtakes your rifles capability, you will know exactly what you want and need.
If you stick with the spray glue crowd.. you will eventually get a lothar, kreiger, or other premium barrel. Do not think you need it to get in the game.
I'm not familiar with 'the Chart', but Lothar Walther makes a sweet accurate 20" barrel in med/heavy contour.
Okay they have one extremely confusing web site.
The chart - http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html
ignore the chart for comp rifles. search using: CMP, service rifle, etc. Look up the rules on the CMP website. Basically must look the same from the outside as an A2.
As a teenage service member I shot service rifle with a 13lb AR, a Bushmaster, gasp, heavy barrel and did fine. Eventually my skills merited a Compass Lake upper... shoot what you can get your claws on at a good price.. when your skill eventually overtakes your rifles capability, you will know exactly what you want and need.
If you stick with the spray glue crowd.. you will eventually get a lothar, kreiger, or other premium barrel. Do not think you need it to get in the game.
Yeah, I looked up the rules, and that is why I would rather not purchase a complete upper. Most are A3's and come with rails. I know they recently started allowing flat top receivers, but they still have to have the A2 carry handle attached. and I understand they aren't as accurate (or can lose their zero). Or at least that is what I've been told.
if you shoot to 600M you will run out of adjust with a removable carryhandle upper, there is not as much vertical adjust, they hold zero fine.
if you only shoot the 200m reduced competitions, a removable would be fine.
The range I would be shooting at; shoots at 300 and 500 yd. for competitions.
Yeah, I looked up the rules, and that is why I would rather not purchase a complete upper. Most are A3's and come with rails. I know they recently started allowing flat top receivers, but they still have to have the A2 carry handle attached. and I understand they aren't as accurate (or can lose their zero). Or at least that is what I've been told.
Maybe that's what it was, was that there wasn't enough adjustment for elevation. I remember them saying they were not a good idea, I just couldn't remember exactly why.
for CMP/service rifle.. non floated rail systems bad.. you will probably want a freefloated stock looking handguard. The classic shooting positions are sling intensive and will fubar a non freefloat.
Since your new.. I would suggest showing up at a competition, and chat up folks. Probably someone or the club will let you borrow beginner gear before you have to pony up.
ohiorifleman
05-03-10, 22:32
Check out White Oak Armament for your service rifle upper.
As was well stated before the info on this site pertains more to the fighting rifles than the competition rifles.
We're straight then, that "The Chart" only really applies to heavy use carbines?
And that CMP RIFLES do not fit under that category?
Sometimes, looking at "the Chart" as a be all end all ends up screwing you into the ground, in your head. Especially when you try to make things other than heavy use M4 Carbines fit it.
ohiorifleman
05-03-10, 22:57
We're straight then, that "The Chart" only really applies to heavy use carbines?
And that CMP RIFLES do not fit under that category?
Sometimes, looking at "the Chart" as a be all end all ends up screwing you into the ground, in your head. Especially when you try to make things other than heavy use M4 Carbines fit it.
Sounds like the right line of thinking to me. Although you can pick up some good info on this site about good parts to put in say, an A2 build, there are many things that cannot make the transition from a fighting gun to a competition gun or vice versa. Take for instance my NM rifle has the FSB attached with four set screws- acceptable at Camp Perry- not acceptable at Thunder Ranch.
For service rifle you can not go wrong with Compass Lake Engineering...
Hewr is a link===> http://www.compasslake.com/
B
Okay they have one extremely confusing web site.
The chart - http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html
Ahh...yes...they have a horrible website.
Get their USA phone # from here:
http://www.lothar-walther.com/335.php
and just give them a call. Ignore the profiles/prices on their website, and talk to a human.
Also, superior barrels uses LW blanks and makes some great barrels for reasonable prices.
HelloLarry
05-05-10, 08:00
I have an extra Rock River stainless steel service rifle match barrel I'll sell you. PM me.
We're straight then, that "The Chart" only really applies to heavy use carbines?
And that CMP RIFLES do not fit under that category?
Sometimes, looking at "the Chart" as a be all end all ends up screwing you into the ground, in your head. Especially when you try to make things other than heavy use M4 Carbines fit it.
If you look at the chart, you will see 4 different tabs. on the one titled Explanation, Charts @ bottom, you will see this you will see this right below the title:
"Without the information in the explanations below, The Chart(s) that appears at the bottom of this page is all but worthless. It is critical, when considering an M4-pattern carbine, to ensure that you understand the list of features and can figure out for yourself if a specific feature is applicable to your intended use. If a sufficient number of the features below and on The Chart are not applicable to your use, then perhaps an M4-pattern carbine is not the right choice for you. "
The chart only lists desirable features on an AR and M4-pattern carbines that are available as complete rifles. Therefore, while the explanation of features is handy, the actual chart has no applicability to a match rifle.
The "chart" compares carbines to the mil-spec. Basically, battle carbines. Match rifles are a totally different ball game. They are built for accuracy and reliability, but they aren't compared to a military standard. Soldiers don't take competition match rifles to war. Note that military service rifle teams build their own rifles in house.
There are two major players in the CMP service rifle game as far as uppers go: White Oak and Compas Lake Engineering. There are a few other players but those two are the most highly regarded. John Hollinger (WOA/WOP) and Frank White (CLE) are well known for their barrel work.
In addition to those alot of people start out with Rock River A2 National Match rifles. Downsides to the RR NM is that the sights are not fortified/pinned like the WOP/CLE, but those who buy RR NMs will shoot the gun until they shoot out the barrel and then send it off to WOA or CLE to have it rebarreled and have the rear sights and FSB modified to match standards. Upside is that it comes stock with a RR 2 stage trigger (which is very servicable for competition).
IMHO the best bargain for entering service rifle competition is to get a White Oak Armament upper (that is barreled with a Wilson 1/7 stainless barrel with the set screw FSB) with the rear sights pinned option. Then build a lower with an A2 butstock and the best trigger you can afford (Gieselle Service Rifle trigger is the best, but costly). After you shoot out the barrel you can rebarrel with whatever you want (another Wilson, a Douglas, or premium Pac Nor, Shilen, Krieger, etc).
If you plan on getting into match shooting you need to reload.
Dom
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