Basic light questions

[DaBears_85]

I've been thinking about adding a tactical flashlight to my HD rifle for awhile now. I should've known that sifting through all the different makes and models of various lights would prove confusing and exhausting. Then again, what isn't when it comes to AR's? Anyhow, I've read alot of threads here and on other sites and the general consensus seems to be that Surfire makes the best all around lights and Vltor has some of the better mounts. I'm looking for help on which model would be the best for HD. Cost isn't really an issue as I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for. Also, what does all this jargon mean? Like dedicated or momentum/momentary? Forgot what the last one was, I think it's one of those two. Finally, what's the best way to have it set-up for HD? Pressure switch or something? If there's a thread I missed please let me know. Thanks for your time gentlemen.

Edit: I know jack about this stuff so the more you dumb it down the better.

[750.356]

First off, you should read John_Wayne777's excellent write up "low light basics", if you haven't already. This is a great starting point to understanding low light shooting. There's a section dedicated to carbine mounted lights:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16114&highlight=stance

Surefire is unarguably the most highly-regarded manufacturer when it comes to reliable lights. I prefer them myself, but there are a lot of folks out there that use a Streamlight to good effect. You'll also find people that swear by one of the various Chinese manufacturered lights eg. Fenix, Nitecore, Olight, etc. Personally, every time I've tried a non-Surefire light, I've been disappointed in some aspect of the light (normally the quality of the threads, operation of the switch, user-interface, or overall reliability). I've really given a lot of different manufacturer's lights an honest shot. YMMV, but my opinion is that Surefire is the best place to start.

As far as mounts go, there are a TON of good, useable options out there from a lot of different manufacturers. Vltor, LaRue, VTAC, Gear Sector, Danger Close, to name the ones I can think of. They vary in how they mount to the rail, how they hold the light, and how they position the light in relationship to the rail.

'Momentary' generally refers to a flashlight's method of operation in which the user applies constant pressure to the tailcap, which will turn the light ON. When pressure is released, the light turns OFF. The tailcap doesn't 'click' on and off like a typical Mag-Lite does. To turn one of these lights to 'constant on', the user rotates the tailcap clockwise. A lot of Surefire handhelds come stock with a very good, reliable example of this type of switch. Surefire calls it a Momentary Lock-Out Tailcap. This is my preferred tailcap for a weaponlight, but again, YMMV.

There are a lot of different ways to set up a light on an AR carbine. There are dedicated weaponlights (with a rail mount integrated into the flashlight's body) like the Surefire M600C Scoutlight. There's using a regular handheld in conjunction with a mount (like a Surefire G2 in a Vltor mount). There's also using a handgun light, like a Surefire X300 or Streamlight TLR-1, mounted to an AR's rail. There's some very knowledgable dudes on this site that use a Surefire X300 mounted at 12 o'clock, in front of the front sight on an AR. Again, this is user preference.

The best way to determine what setup you want to run would be to take a good low-light shooting course.

I'm a real flashlight geek, but my long gun home defense setup is a very simple and relatively inexpensive Surefire G2 LED in a Vltor SM-OCG offset mount. This however, is on an AK, where light mounting options are lot more limited versus an AR.

[Dennis]

750.356 has summed it up quite well. Your best bet is to try out various setups and see what suits you best, even better if that's during some low-light training. There are lots and lots of ways to mount a light on an AR even if you stick to only Surefire, and it really comes down to personal preference.

However, to get a better recommendation you need to explain your setup a bit more:

Do you run a rail system? How long?
Do you use a vertical grip?
How do you grip your forend? Broomstick? Over barrel? USMC?
How do you want to activate the light? Thumb or tailswitch?
Where do you want the light mounted? 6:00? 11:00? 12:00?

Unfortunately, you really only know the answers to some of these questions after running a system for awhile, and you may well change your mind after some practical experience...

Let us know what you got, and I'd say go with the cheapest SF option given your setup/initial preferences. That way when you change your mind you won't be out much :)

Dennis.

[DaBears_85]

Wow thanks for the responses guys, this is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. I know these are a bunch of beginner over-generalized questions, so I greatly appreciate your patience. As far as the rifle is concerned, it's a Colt 6920 with a KAC M4 RAS and a KAC vert grip. As far as positions on the rail for mounting the light, I'm not really sure at this point. I think that's something I'd have to figure out by trial and error.

[Dennis]

Wow thanks for the responses guys, this is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. I know these are a bunch of beginner over-generalized questions, so I greatly appreciate your patience. As far as the rifle is concerned, it's a Colt 6920 with a KAC M4 RAS and a KAC vert grip. As far as positions on the rail for mounting the light, I'm not really sure at this point. I think that's something I'd have to figure out by trial and error.

Well then I'd recommend the most basic of setups that many people in-the-know use and that I have settled on after spending much, much more on alternate light systems. With this you can mount at 11 or 1 for ambidextrous use with thumb over the barrel hold, or 7 or 5 for broomstick hold (not preferred...).

And if for whatever reason this doesn't work out for you, you can put it on a backup carbine, sell it, or use the light as a handheld.

Mount - best deal works great (and you can mount the smaller lights as well if need be sometime SF LX2!)
http://www.vikingtactics.com/prod_vtac_lightmount.html
OR - a bit nicer, but no real need unless you want QD.
http://www.vltor.com/scount-mount-ocg.htm

Light - Best deal
http://www.surefire.com/G2-Led
OR a bit nicer, but no real need...
http://www.surefire.com/6P-Led

Upgraded LED - More light, better runtime, more reliable... Use the OEM LED as backup, or upgrade an old SF.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/dropins-to-fit-surefire-m60ws-to-fit-surefire-c-1_14_15.html?zenid=c4c4p64dh9qdakae1rs2arvrv4

[750.356]

Either of the lights and mounts that Dennis linked to would make very functional, reliable setups.

The upgraded Malkoff LED in the last link is also generally regarded as THE highest quality LED drop-in you can buy for a Surefire. I have two myself, and they're awesome. The stock Surefire LED is perfectly usable, but if you want to try the one of the brightest, furthest throwing, most efficient LEDs that will drop into a 6P or G2, the Malkoff is it. The Malkoff 'Flood" drop-ins also have a very wide, room filling beam. Using one indoors is literally like flipping the light switch on in whatever room you're in. They are however, expensive and often hard to come by, depending on what model you want.

[DaBears_85]

Thanks again for the input guys. I'm thinking about going with the 6P and the Vltor mount. 80 lumens sounds like it would be ideal for HD. Is there anything I should know about the QD mount? How stable is it? I don't want something where the lever can be easily flipped. I'm hoping it's rather difficult to manipulate, if that makes any sense. Now that I think about it is a QD mount even practical?

Edit: How do you guys feel about tape switches?

[Dennis]

Thanks again for the input guys. I'm thinking about going with the 6P and the Vltor mount. 80 lumens sounds like it would be ideal for HD. Is there anything I should know about the QD mount? How stable is it? I don't want something where the lever can be easily flipped. I'm hoping it's rather difficult to manipulate, if that makes any sense. Now that I think about it is a QD mount even practical?

Edit: How do you guys feel about tape switches?

VLTOR QD is rock solid and has a default locking feature, it's not going anywhere.

Tape switches suck. They have their uses but not for a primary light system where you don't have to run anything else.

Dennis.

[ucrt]

Looks like some good advice.

Malkoff lights are first class but they are hard to get.

My "QD" light mount is the old-style Weaver 1" scope ring for my SF 6P. GG&G sells them as QD Light Mounts for $20 a piece but Wally World has them for $20 a pair. I've got about 500 rounds on one and it hasn't loosened yet. Loosens/tightens with a coin.

Cheap but solid way to mount your light?

[Dennis]

Looks like some good advice.

Malkoff lights are first class but they are hard to get.

My "QD" light mount is the old-style Weaver 1" scope ring for my SF 6P. GG&G sells them as QD Light Mounts for $20 a piece but Wally World has them for $20 a pair. I've got about 500 rounds on one and it hasn't loosened yet. Loosens/tightens with a coin.

Cheap but solid way to mount your light?

I used those exact mounts for years with no major issues other than having to keep up on them and tighten them occasionally. Personally I prefer newer ones that are more positive just in case, but you should maintain your stuff regardless.

Dennis.

[DaBears_85]

I know this is a dumb question but is the 1.010" diameter of the Vltor QD mount and the 1" diameter of the SF 6P going to be a problem?

[750.356]

Now that I think about it is a QD mount even practical?

For my application, a QD's not really necessary. I never have a reason to remove the light from my long gun, so I'm fine with the regular thumbscrew version of the Vltor. I just blue loctite it, paint witness marks on the screws, and call it good.

If I were using a big, aluminum, 3-cell Surefire weaponlight with a turbohead, I'd want the option of easy on/ easy off the QD affords you with such a heavy setup. A SF G2L in the Vltor mount is something like 7oz, which I'm fine with having on the rifle 100% of the time.

That said, most would probably agree that a good QD throwlever mount like LaRue or ADM has an edge in reliability, in the sense that it's less likely fall off or loosen up vs a regular thumbscrew.



Edit: How do you guys feel about tape switches?

Don't like them at all. Snag prone and inherently fragile when compared with a good momentary switch. Tape switches are one of the few items that Surefire considers to be a 'wear and tear' item like batteries and incandescent lamps, which means they don't normally warranty them when they fail. This is telling.

I think there are way too many good mounts and setups that will place a light's tailcap exactly where it needs to be, in relationship to your firing grip, to consider a tape switch.



I know this is a dumb question but is the 1.010" diameter of the Vltor QD mount and the 1" diameter of the SF 6P going to be a problem?

Nope. It'll work just fine.

[JSantoro]

Edit: How do you guys feel about tape switches?

They're not going to burst into flames if you look at them with both eyes at the same time, but they're failure-prone. I'll only use them if I'm running a light and a laser on the same platform, and the tape switch goes to the laser. That's usually if my MFAL device is a -16A, since it's blocky as f**k and hard to manipulate (I refuse to use the white light on that thing unless I have no other choice). If it's a -15, it's streamlined enough that I can sometimes get away with setting up light and laser in such a way that I can use either with slight hand shifts to hit activation buttons. Possible, but unusual.

Otherwise, they're helpful in instances in which you are limited in your mounting options, such as if you have a rifle-length forearm and you want the light as far forward as possible, hence you can't reach a momentary button.

They're getting more reliable, but are not to the point that I'll use them with true confidence unless another option exists.