View Full Version : Hornady .223 TAP Training Ammo
Does anyone have any experience with this ammo? I just bought a case from ammunitiontogo.com for under 300.00 which included shipping.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-223-hornady-tap-training-55gr-fmj-ammo/cName/223-556-fmj-ammo
QuietShootr
05-07-10, 12:27
I've shot close to five cases of it through a 10.5" and a 16" middy (both LMTs). No problems at all, I like it a lot.
I plan on running this in the Magpul class that I am attending later this year. Hard to beat that price. Ammo to go is GTG in my book.
Yes,
I'd have to see what's left, but 4-5K rounds, no issues, shoots very well for 55gr FMJ.
Fired about 2500 rounds of it through my BCM 11.5" SBR without cleaning the gun. No issues to report. I should buy more.
Thanks for the info. just snagged a few cases so I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
I've shot both the 55 grain and 75 grain with excellent results. I couldn't believe how accurate the 75 grain bullets were with my 16" DD barrel and I plan on using the 55 grain this fall for a US Training Center course. Buy and don't look back!!
I've used this before with excellent results and at that price (better than I can get through my PD with a PO) just ordered another 4k.
Just ran 1k of 55gr through a class. It ran flawlessly. Shooting another 500rd or so tomorrow. I did a fair amount of research prior to buying some. I have not read anything bad about the TAP practice with some folks having run several thousand rounds of it. My buddy has run probably 4k of it over the past few months once again no prob. Stuff seems GTG.
I've shot both the 55 grain and 75 grain with excellent results. I couldn't believe how accurate the 75 grain bullets were with my 16" DD barrel and I plan on using the 55 grain this fall for a US Training Center course. Buy and don't look back!!
Yeah that 75gr TAP is pretty accurate stuff. I've had really good results. I mean figuring what it is it is impressive.
Does anyone have any experience with this ammo? I just bought a case from ammunitiontogo.com for under 300.00 which included shipping.
Think: Wolf, with better QC, greater consistency, and real accountability if there are problems.
I had one malf out of a box. Failure to completely eject if I remember right. It runs pretty good. I use it when I'm shooting down on my targets from the rocky hillsides.
GermanSynergy
05-07-10, 19:03
Shot thousands of rds with only 2 dead primers in the 55 grain FMJ offering. Other than that it's been good ammo. Buy with confidence.
I just finished a 5 day Patrol Rifle Course with this stuff. Not a single function issue with this ammo, a Colt 6921 and Lancer mags. It was very accurate at 100m despite the use of a KAC 300m Sight. The rest of the class were using refit SP1s with 10.5" barrels and they had no issues either.
Think: Wolf, with better QC, greater consistency, and real accountability if there are problems.
Interesting. Can't recall seeing any of this listed over the years.
But if there's something available anywhere, then ammo-to-go is likely to have it.
Interesting. Can't recall seeing any of this listed over the years.
But if there's something available anywhere, then ammo-to-go is likely to have it.
G&R carry it in 50 round boxes.
G&R carry it in 50 round boxes.
Well that certainly is another good source. And since several chimed in about the stated rounds then they must be out there. Somehow we miss things here in NJ, despite the internet. :mad:
Anyway, considering Grant's weekend of bliss going in GD, I doubt he will have much to say about it here tonight.
:)
Well that certainly is another good source. And since several chimed in about the stated rounds then they must be out there. Somehow we miss things here in NJ, despite the internet. :mad:
Anyway, considering Grant's weekend of bliss going in GD, I doubt he will have much to say about it here tonight.
:)
We shoot and sell the 55gr and 75gr TAP practice. Best budget ammo on the market IMHO.
C4
We shoot and sell the 55gr and 75gr TAP practice. Best budget ammo on the market IMHO.
C4
Well that was meant to be an overt joke, but you sure to proved to be on your toes regardless. ;)
Very nice back yard you have there, by the way. Reminds me of the good old days of shooting dove and woodchucks (considered groundhogs most other places) on my father's back porch when we had a farm years ago.
A priceless luxury, especially the pure sense of freedom.
I picked up a couple of cases for a recent carbine course after work reneged on supplying the ammo. Shoots well, no dirtier that M855 or M193. It shoots straight and I never had any feeding, extraction, or ejection issues. It does smell funny but you get used to it. I'm ordering another couple of cases too. BTW, Ammunition2go is good to go and is now my go-to (couldn't resist) supplier for all my ammo needs.
Hornady's 75 Grain Practice Ammunition
Hornady’s 75 grain practice ammunition uses a Berdan primed, steel case instead of a brass case to reduce the cost of the loaded cartridge. The round uses Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP bullet with a cannelure (referred to as the T1C here on AR15.com.) The round is charged with ball powder and has a muzzle velocity similar to Hornady’s 75 grain TAP FPD. Fired from my 20” Colt government profile barrel with a NATO chamber, a 10-shot string had an average muzzle velocity of 2,646 fps with a standard deviation of 9 fps.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/xsbzu8o3b2.jpg
http://www.box.net/shared/static/pux1fjacjp.jpg
The steel case employs the heaviest amount of bullet-pull I have ever encountered in a 223 Remington case. I was unable to remove a bullet from the case using Dillon’s kinetic bullet puller, so I chucked a Lee collet bullet-puller into my reloading press and attempted to pull the bullet. I still couldn’t get the bullet out of the case! At that point, I had to resort to more primitive means to get the bullet out of the case.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/5qnfhakn5j.jpg
I tested the accuracy of the 75 grain practice round following my usual procedures. Using a free-floated 20” Colt HBAR and shooting from a bench-rest from 100 yards, I obtained three 10-shot groups and over-layed them on each other using RSI Shooting Lab. The 30-round composite group had a mean radius of 0.47”. While not as accurate as Hornady’s 75 grain TAP FPD, accuracy was on par with the 75 grain 5.56 TAP load.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/us8pqbd4tl.jpg
The 75gr stuff looks like good to excellent training ammo that one can fall back on as serious ammo in an emergency.
You and I will be doing some shooting in the next few weeks. Get ready! ;)
I had one malf out of a box. Failure to completely eject if I remember right. It runs pretty good. I use it when I'm shooting down on my targets from the rocky hillsides.
You and I will be doing some shooting in the next few weeks. Get ready! ;)
Cool! You can give me your opinion of the M&P 45 I bought.
PrivateCitizen
05-21-10, 17:11
The 75gr stuff looks like good to excellent training ammo that one can fall back on as serious ammo in an emergency.
I was just about to ask if anyone is doing this …
I currently keep about TAP LE on hand for primary SD.
The 75gr TAP Training uses the same BTHP "T1" bullet as the LEO/FPD TAP as I understand. So …
If this stuff is reasonably accurate and reliable, which by all discussion it seems to be, is it appropriate for effective negative socialization should it come down to that (versus the typical backup stores of M193, etc)?
We shoot and sell the 55gr and 75gr TAP practice. Best budget ammo on the market IMHO.
C4
Grant, do you sell the 55grn practice by the case? I only found the 75 grn 50 nd boxes on your site.
Ammunition to go is the only place I found this on the web and they no longer have 1k round cases and they are in TX which means I have to pay sales tax:mad:
Want to avoid that if I can
Grant, do you sell the 55grn practice by the case? I only found the 75 grn 50 nd boxes on your site.
Ammunition to go is the only place I found this on the web and they no longer have 1k round cases and they are in TX which means I have to pay sales tax:mad:
Want to avoid that if I can
We generally do not, but might be able to put something together shoot us an e-mail.
C4
arizona98tj
06-24-10, 20:42
I've used Hornady TAP before and those boxes clearly reflect the name, from what I recall.
I have a case of the Hornady 55 gr FMJ training ammo sitting here.
Just to clarify, nowhere on the case or individual boxes does it say "TAP". For those folks that think they are getting TAP ammo, you are not. And I bought mine from the ammunitiontogo.com web site.
That being said, I enjoy the ammo, it runs great in my M&P15, and I have recommended it to a number of my friends.
StrikerFired
06-29-10, 21:01
It seems to be very good ammo to me. I've used it in both informal ranges sessions and for Carbine classes with no ill effect.
Just to clarify, nowhere on the case or individual boxes does it say "TAP". For those folks that think they are getting TAP ammo, you are not. And I bought mine from the ammunitiontogo.com web site.
.
Incorrect. On their website, they specifically call out TAP in the name of the training ammo.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=94
C4
arizona98tj
07-21-10, 21:21
Incorrect. On their website, they specifically call out TAP in the name of the training ammo.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=94
C4
You need to read what I wrote.....I said that nowhere on the case or individual boxes does it say "TAP".....I didn't mention any website claim, other than the fact that I bought mine from the ammunitiontogo website. I've bought TAP ammo before and it clearly states it on the box.
Web folks put all kinds of info on web pages that may or may not be true. You buy an A1 stock with aluminum butt plate and door and it shows up with plastic parts......I guess the stock didn't read the web page. :rolleyes:
Since I am buying the ammo and not the web page, I believe what is on the ammo box or case and not what was on a web site.
You need to read what I wrote.....I said that nowhere on the case or individual boxes does it say "TAP".....I didn't mention any website claim, other than the fact that I bought mine from the ammunitiontogo website. I've bought TAP ammo before and it clearly states it on the box.
Web folks put all kinds of info on web pages that may or may not be true. You buy an A1 stock with aluminum butt plate and door and it shows up with plastic parts......I guess the stock didn't read the web page. :rolleyes:
Since I am buying the ammo and not the web page, I believe what is on the ammo box or case and not what was on a web site.
LOL, good try. You made a specific attempt to TRY and tell people that they were not getting a TAP round.
Hornady is an extremely reputable company and are NOT going to put false claims on their website. So when they call it a TAP training round, that's what it is.
C4
arizona98tj
07-21-10, 22:05
I have no problem with the ammo....it runs great in my ARs.
So answer me this simple question....Why won't Hornady put TAP on the box or the case the boxes ship in? They put TAP on the other boxes of their TAP ammo.
Nice try.....but that dog doesn't hunt here.
I have no problem with the ammo....it runs great in my ARs.
So answer me this simple question....Why won't Hornady put TAP on the box or the case the boxes ship in? They put TAP on the other boxes of their TAP ammo.
Nice try.....but that dog doesn't hunt here.
Simple. Marketing. They want to keep LE and everyone else buying the more expensive stuff for serious use and the steel cased stuff for range use. If Hornady put the same flashy packaging and TAP name on the MUCH cheaper practice ammo, they wouldn't sell the other stuff. Brillant idea on their part.
The fact remains that when you do business directly with Hornady and order this ammo, they refer to it as "TAP Practice."
C4
arizona98tj
07-21-10, 22:35
Simple. Marketing. They want to keep LE and everyone else buying the more expensive stuff for serious use and the steel cased stuff for range use. If Hornady put the same flashy packaging and TAP name on the MUCH cheaper practice ammo, they wouldn't sell the other stuff. Brillant idea on their part.
The fact remains that when you do business directly with Hornady and order this ammo, they refer to it as "TAP Practice."
C4
If marketing is driving their reasoning, then, IMHO, they need some new marketing folks.
If one of my main products was TAP ammo to the LE agencies, and I wanted to ensure those agencies that their range time yielded identical terminal results as using the TAP duty/carry ammo, I would be putting TAP PRACTICE on the box....ensuring the LEOs that they were shooting the exact same ammo that they carry except saving some $$ because of the non-brass case.
I don't doubt they call it TAP Practice. The fact remains....they don't label the box as TAP anything.
I have a Shelby Mustang.....it doesn't say Shelby.....but it is. :rolleyes:
LOL! The dog still isn't hunting.
Best regards ;)
Belmont31R
07-21-10, 22:41
Who cares?
I shoot the shit out of some 55 and 75 grain stuff. :moil:
PrivateCitizen
07-21-10, 23:18
Who cares?
I shoot the shit out of some 55 and 75 grain stuff. :moil:
That.
Still, you are in a wad over a paper label on a cardboard box rather than the product inside.
Here's a scoop: http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=94
That box has TAP on the side …
Maybe that is the real TAP but they only made one for the photo …
Patrick Aherne
07-22-10, 02:18
I shot 1k rounds of this stuff back in February for a Magpul Dynamics HVWM class and it ran great. Better, in fact, than some other folks brass-cased ammo. We use it for training ammo at my PD.
If marketing is driving their reasoning, then, IMHO, they need some new marketing folks.
If one of my main products was TAP ammo to the LE agencies, and I wanted to ensure those agencies that their range time yielded identical terminal results as using the TAP duty/carry ammo, I would be putting TAP PRACTICE on the box....ensuring the LEOs that they were shooting the exact same ammo that they carry except saving some $$ because of the non-brass case.
I don't doubt they call it TAP Practice. The fact remains....they don't label the box as TAP anything.
I guess you don't understand how PD's, agencies, etc get their TAP. They call up Hornady. They want training ammo for their duty loads (and don't want POI shifts). Hornady TELLS THEM that the Training ammo (AKA TAP Training) is what they want.
They have NO NEED TO READ THE BOX (or care) AS HORNADY IS TELLING THEM THAT IT IS A TAP TRAINING ROUND! ;)
EVERYONE IN THE FREE WORLD UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS IS TAP TRAINING/PRACTICE AMMO, BUT YOU (CLUE).
C4
Notice the impact of three rounds at 200yds. The Training round also uses the T1 bullet (same one used in many of the other TAP rounds).
http://www.box.net/shared/static/8qh3rkc01f.jpg
arizona98tj
07-23-10, 22:08
I asked Hornady if the training ammo in question is TAP ammo. They said it was not.
So I stand on my original post that said the steel cased training ammo they are selling is not TAP ammo. It shoots great, I like it, will certainly get more. But like I said, it is not TAP ammo. ;)
Here is a screen shot of the e-mail Hornady responded with.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/temp/not_tap_e-mail.jpg
The other half of Hornady's e-mail.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/temp/not_tap2.jpg
Aside from the drama about whether or not something is TAP or not, the ammo has performed very well thus far. I have shot approx. 300 rounds so far, in my SBR, suppressed and unsuppressed and a few other of my AR's. As long as the price is good, I'll keep buying it.
GermanSynergy
07-24-10, 09:41
Yup- just dumped 2000 rds of the 55 grain into ammo cans for training ammo. This is, for the price, the best bang for the buck right now.
Aside from the drama about whether or not something is TAP or not, the ammo has performed very well thus far. I have shot approx. 300 rounds so far, in my SBR, suppressed and unsuppressed and a few other of my AR's. As long as the price is good, I'll keep buying it.
I asked Hornady if the training ammo in question is TAP ammo. They said it was not.
So I stand on my original post that said the steel cased training ammo they are selling is not TAP ammo. It shoots great, I like it, will certainly get more. But like I said, it is not TAP ammo. ;)
Here is a screen shot of the e-mail Hornady responded with.
Of COURSE it is isn't "TAP." It is TAP TRAINING! If it were "TAP" it would be using different powder, different primer and have a brass case.
The fundamental part of the ENTIRE ROUND IS THE BULLET. This bullet IS the part that is found in SOME of the "TAP" rounds and IS the part that enters your body and kills you. ;)
So when we discuss the fact that the TAP "PRACTICE" round would kill you just as dead as the "TAP" round, this what we are talking about. You are getting the same capabilities without the cost (as they cut costs on the primer, powder and casings, but NOT the bullet).
The main part that makes a "TAP" round a "TAP" round is the bullet. The TAP "Practice" round doesn't use some POS bullet, but one that is shared with a lot of the "TAP" family (CLUE).
Back to the accuracy capability of the TAP Practice ammo. If it did not have the same capabilities as the TAP round, it wouldn't be able to perform like it does!
http://www.box.net/shared/static/us8pqbd4tl.jpg
You did not need to e-mail Hornady that question, I would have easily told you the same thing. If I was Hornady, I would NEVER tell anyone that the ammo is both reliable and will gives the shooter the similar levels of accuracy that the brass cased TAP round delivers (as they wouldn't sell any more "TAP" ammo). ;)
C4
arizona98tj
07-24-10, 14:08
I wanted to say thanks.....your response got me a free box of those non-TAP Hornady training rounds from my range buddy. I told him your response would tap dance all around what Hornady said in their e-mail....he said no way.
Much appreciated! :D
My only regret about the entire thing was that I didn't bet him for two boxes. :(
I wanted to say thanks.....your response got me a free box of those non-TAP Hornady training rounds from my range buddy. I told him your response would tap dance all around what Hornady said in their e-mail....he said no way.
Much appreciated! :D
My only regret about the entire thing was that I didn't bet him for two boxes. :(
Your buddy is moron for believing that I "tap danced" around anything and needs to read my response and then get his ammo back. ;)
Your question to Hornady was NOT worded correctly. You needed to ask them if ANY of the components used in the TAP practice came from the "TAP" rounds. Like I said, I would have told you the SAME THING that Hornady did.
As stated, no one in this thread has stated that the brass cased TAP and steel cased TAP Practice were identical.
What we DID say (and backed it up with graphs and accuracy reports) is that the TAP Practive ammo delivers similar capabilities as the "TAP" rounds (hence why it is called TAP Practice) and why it was designed so that officers that have their weapons zero'd for the "TAP" rounds to not have to re-zero their weapons when they train.
C4
GermanSynergy
07-24-10, 14:55
Grant nailed it.
I fail to see what is so difficult to comprehend here.....
Grant nailed it.
I fail to see what is so difficult to comprehend here.....
It almost seems like I am talking to myself sometimes.
Question: What part of a round enters into the bad guy?
Answer: The bullet.
Question: What does the brass cased TAP round share with the steel cased TAP Training round?
Answer: The bullet.
Question: Will a TAP Practice round kill you dead like a brass cased TAP round will?
Answer: Yes.
C4
arizona98tj
07-24-10, 17:57
Thanks again. ;)
Belmont31R
07-24-10, 18:53
The 75 GR TAP Training rounds are accurate...at least for me, and a great value for the range. I would stick with brass for a duty round but the majority of my ammo purchases the past few months has been the training round.
Im shooting 4-6" groups with it at 300 yards with only a 4X optic, and I can't really do any better except for maybe Mk262/SSA 77 out of my Mk12 build. I can't say I like the smell of shooting the training rounds but steel case ammo has always smelled worse than brass.
As far as not needing to change zero...with my SB 3-12 with MRAD adjustments Im down 18 clicks w/ a 100 yard zero shooting the training round. With TAP T2 Im only down 10 clicks (same as SSA 77 556). TAP LE 75 .223 is down 15. This @ 300yrds with 100yard zero.
Reminds me I need to order another 500rd case...:D
I have shot several thousand rounds of "TAP" 55 grain practice ammo. You can't beat it for the price and I will continue to buy it.
Some sweet man-drama you two have going here.
This ammo has worked good for me so far. Cheap training ammo.
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