View Full Version : Recce recommendations
wild_wild_wes
05-10-10, 22:17
I'm thinking of doing a Recce, using a Noveske Recon barrel. The lower I was planning on using has a Geissele SSA trigger; it currently has a CTR telestock. Sould I replace the CTR with a UBR? I handled a UBR and it felt pretty heavy- will the improved balance outweigh the increased total weight?
Centurion Arms build a nice RECCE based on the Mk12 SPR barrel that has been sized to 16 inches.
http://www.centurionarms.com/images/stories/image3.jpg
wild_wild_wes
05-10-10, 23:04
Any reviews of the Centurion barrel yet?
lots.. they're excellent barrels.
as far as the stock- are you building a recce for a recce-esque application? if i were to build another recce, i'd stick with an M4 stock... i'm generally all about balance, but with medium profile stainless barrels and long rails, there's not enough stock on earth to "balance" it out. all you're doing is adding more pain.
I'm thinking of doing a Recce, using a Noveske Recon barrel. The lower I was planning on using has a Geissele SSA trigger; it currently has a CTR telestock. Sould I replace the CTR with a UBR? I handled a UBR and it felt pretty heavy- will the improved balance outweigh the increased total weight?
I am a big fan of UBRs...but its b/c they bring so much more than any other stock out there other than perhaps a current spec SOPMOD.
The extra weight is in the one location that imho its generally only going to make a gun balance out better, the rear....sure carrying it will be a bit more heavy, but once you shoulder the rifle and get that incredible cheek weld....zero movement at any area on the stock...and to your point lastly, they balance both my SPR and my Recon (pic'd below) perfectly. The main reason why i got hooked on the UBR was the fact that both of my ubrs went on the heavier precision based guns and for this purpose, the UBR is flat out unbeatable and for me at least a gamechanger.
http://i43.tinypic.com/6isokx.jpg
I've tried UBRs but I prefer the cheek weld from an LMT SOPMOD or Magpul ACS
Sould I replace the CTR with a UBR? I handled a UBR and it felt pretty heavy- will the improved balance outweigh the increased total weight?
I built a Recce that could be my favourite rifle and it originally had an LMT SOPMOD which I replaced with the Magpul UBR. I had lowers that had the SOPMOD and also the Magpul CTR which was too light for my Recce. While fit and feel are personal I found the UBR balances a 16" Recce with an optic perfectly and feel fantastic for LOP and cheek weld.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4585210124_9db1b846c2_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4585211700_50d5885572_b.jpg
Cameron
Belmont31R
05-11-10, 00:41
IMO the UBR is too heavy for practical application.
Centurion barrels shoot really well as do Noveske, and LaRue. You can't really go wrong either either of the 3.
I've been running an Emod on my recce since I built it but tried the upper on a lower with a UBR a while back and I must admit, it felt very nice. Been wanting to pick one up for that rifle for a while now but I'm happy enough with the vltor that I haven't gotten around to it... Starts getting to be a bit of a pig for a 16" gun, but whats a few extra ounces at the butt of the rifle when it is (as has been mentioned) fairly heavy to begin with.
I definitely wouldn't run the CTR on there if it were me. If not the UBR then an ACS or Emod (or Imod maybe) - or a Sopmod if that's your thing.
On a side note, I built mine with the Noveske recce barrel and could not be happier with it. Those centurion barrels are mighty nice as well tough.
I'm thinking of doing a Recce, using a Noveske Recon barrel. The lower I was planning on using has a Geissele SSA trigger; it currently has a CTR telestock. Sould I replace the CTR with a UBR? I handled a UBR and it felt pretty heavy- will the improved balance outweigh the increased total weight?
The only way that you will truly know is to try it out. I placed a MagPul CTR on my Recon rifle, primarily because I wanted to have the same stock on all of my guns.
I don't own a UBR, but I have used one on other shooters rifles. It is a very nice stock. Senior Member Jeff USMC03 has a website with a primer regarding matching particular stocks to certain types of AR rifles. There is some very useful information there for you to consider.
LINK:http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-buttstock-considerations
Lastly, yes a CTR stock will result in a muzzle heavy rifle if you are using the Noveske Recon 16" stainless steel barrel. I like my rifles to be muzzle-heavy but that's just me. Bottom-line it is truly personal preference.
SkiDevil
The rifle pictured below with a loaded 30 RD HK magazine is over 10.5 LBS. in weight.
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/SkiDevil01/NoveskePhotos0014.jpg
wild_wild_wes
10-23-10, 00:10
Okay then the next big choice would be what optic to use.
Many of the Recces I have seen on this site have 1-4X variables, but in another thread I learned this about the original ones:
"The original whatever you want to call them- Recces, SPRs, MK 12s (we usually just say "sniper M4") had a 16" barrel, Leupold 2.5-10 and a PRI foregrip. They were first used operationally in '93 in Somalia by our guys that were attached to our Southern brethren."
Recce users, what say you on this?
Belmont31R
10-23-10, 00:25
To me a recce and SPR are two very distinct guns.
A recce is able to be used in CQB in a pinch due to the size, and optic. An SPR is a dedicated light sniper platform that would be be a real hindrance in a CQB environment. Accuracy is similar but the application of that accuracy is very different.
I am much more confident in my ability to score hits at range with the SPR than a recce.
BrigandTwoFour
10-23-10, 10:33
I'm going to throw in my vote for a Magpul ACS. I put one on my recce set up and it balances quite nicely. I used the 16" centurion light weight barrel.
Without an optic (still saving for a TR 24) and unloaded, the balance sits about an inch in front of the trigger guard, right in the magwell.
I'd say ACS or EMOD with BCM Stickers over the gap. Both have a bit more weight (can be added to with batteries in the storage), which will tame muzzle-heaviness if you want to go that route.
That said, I'm running a preproduction UBR on my Centurion Mk12
I am a big fan of UBRs...but its b/c they bring so much more than any other stock out there other than perhaps a current spec SOPMOD.
how is a sopmod different/better than, say, an Emod? I find the cheekweld to be practically identical. is it something else?
how is a sopmod different/better than, say, an Emod? I find the cheekweld to be practically identical. is it something else?
The cheekweld never moves no matter what what position the stock is in for one, two it locks up every bit as tight as a fixed A2 when in a position, thirdly it allows preset positions, fourthly it has a huge, easily assessable storage capacity.
The cheekweld never moves no matter what what position the stock is in for one, two it locks up every bit as tight as a fixed A2 when in a position, thirdly it allows preset positions, fourthly it has a huge, easily assessable storage capacity.
sopmods fit snug on LMT receiver extensions, but so do most quality stocks. i've had sopmods literally rattle on non-LMT REs- especially the tan ones, for some reason.
as to the other three points... huh? the cheekweld moves if the stock moves, on either stock. are you thinking of the UBR?
wild_wild_wes
10-23-10, 22:04
The max range my Recce would be used at would be 600m. Is the 1-4X enough for that?
sopmods fit snug on LMT receiver extensions, but so do most quality stocks. i've had sopmods literally rattle on non-LMT REs- especially the tan ones, for some reason.
as to the other three points... huh? the cheekweld moves if the stock moves, on either stock. are you thinking of the UBR?
LOL...indeed I am.....gotta run, short bus is honking out front;)
reasons why I personally like the sopmod second best would be the actual LMT Rec. Ext, I also like how easily you can pop the actual stock on and off.
Centurion makes a great barrel. I have their cl barrel so it's a little different than what you want. But, Centurion is on the same level as any top top tier barrel manufacture.
The cheekweld never moves no matter what what position the stock is in for one, two it locks up every bit as tight as a fixed A2 when in a position, thirdly it allows preset positions, fourthly it has a huge, easily assessable storage capacity.
I think maybe you're thinking of a UBR?
He is, and he is right the UBR is a very good stock, most people don't realize that it is less than 7oz heavier than a Magpul ACS, and only about 6.5oz heavier than a Vltor EMod. USMC03 wrote a good article about the different stocks here (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-buttstock-considerations). Where he says:
As a general rule I use:
Magpul UBR stock on 14.5" - 16" barrels with longer rail systems (10.0 - 13.2)
While overall weight reduction is typically a good thing, having a carbine or rifle that balances well and performs is also a good thing. The ACS, UBR, EMod and SOPMOD can offer advantages to first fit the shooter and then to balance and carbine and improve feel. I have had M4 stocks, CTRs, SOPMOD, EMod, M93B, UBRs and the best feel I get for a Recce type carbine with a long rail and an optic is the UBR.
When it comes to stocks, weights, carbines, rifles and balance don't forget that shooters are all different too and what might work for you at 5'9" and 170lbs may feel very different for me at 5'11" and 230lbs.
Cameron
He is, and he is right the UBR is a very good stock, most people don't realize that it is less than 7oz heavier than a Magpul ACS, and only about 6.5oz heavier than a Vltor EMod. USMC03 right a good article about the different stocks here (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-buttstock-considerations). Where he says:
While overall weight reduction is typically a good thing, having a carbine or rifle that balances well and performs is also a good thing. The ACS, UBR, EMod and SOPMOD can offer advantages to first fit the shooter and then to balance and carbine and improve feel. I have had M4 stocks, CTRs, SOPMOD, EMod, M93B, UBRs and the best feel I get for a Recce type carbine with a long rail and an optic is the UBR.
When it comes to stocks, weight carbines, rifles and balance don't forget that shooters are all different too and what might work for you at 5'9" and 170lbs may feel very different for me at 5'11" and 230lbs.
Cameron
I read that article. a very good primer...
I don't want to hijack this thread any more but I was asking what makes the SOPMOD such a desirable stock. it's roughly 50% more expensive than an Emod or ACS and still, some people prefer them.
I just wanted to know what I don't know... :)
I read that article. a very good primer...
I don't want to hijack this thread any more but I was asking what makes the SOPMOD such a desirable stock. it's roughly 50% more expensive than an Emod or ACS and still, some people prefer them.
I just wanted to know what I don't know... :)
they do tend to fit snugger, and there's no jab at the cheekweld to catch your beard hairs.
they were the first stock to come with rubber butt pads, to have storage space, to widen the cheekweld, and to fit snugly... but they're now not the only stock that does these things.
as i mentioned above, i've stopped buying them. new, at least- i'll still buy one used for a good deal... but vltor pretty much came along with something better for less.
Belmont31R
10-24-10, 15:38
I read that article. a very good primer...
I don't want to hijack this thread any more but I was asking what makes the SOPMOD such a desirable stock. it's roughly 50% more expensive than an Emod or ACS and still, some people prefer them.
I just wanted to know what I don't know... :)
In my experience they fit just as tight as Magpul stocks yet only need one latch, and they are very tough stocks. Many people including myself have felt the ACS felt a bit cheap, and I don't like the way the storage tubes are closed off with those little rubber plugs. They tended to come loose pretty easy on the one I had.
But I would not buy one new...in fact Ive come into quite a bit of them because they come on LMT lowers and KAC guns at a price that makes them cheaper than the alternatives being bought stand alone. Ive sold quite a few of them for a really good price. I would not buy a new one for $200 if I was looking at one.
they do tend to fit snugger, and there's no jab at the cheekweld to catch your beard hairs.
they were the first stock to come with rubber butt pads, to have storage space, to widen the cheekweld, and to fit snugly... but they're now not the only stock that does these things.
as i mentioned above, i've stopped buying them. new, at least- i'll still buy one used for a good deal... but vltor pretty much came along with something better for less.
the iMod?
In my experience they fit just as tight as Magpul stocks yet only need one latch, and they are very tough stocks. Many people including myself have felt the ACS felt a bit cheap, and I don't like the way the storage tubes are closed off with those little rubber plugs. They tended to come loose pretty easy on the one I had.
But I would not buy one new...in fact Ive come into quite a bit of them because they come on LMT lowers and KAC guns at a price that makes them cheaper than the alternatives being bought stand alone. Ive sold quite a few of them for a really good price. I would not buy a new one for $200 if I was looking at one.
I get where you're coming from. I simply can't justify the price but if one landed in my lap... :jester:
I was mostly trying to figure out what is so special about the SOPMOD over the Emod as I am the proud owner of not one but TWO of these guys (one black, one FDE) and I haven't really warmed up to the ACS yet.
I like the Emod but it's a heavy bitch. I'm keeping one to use with an A5 extension and buffer kit and selling or trading off the other one for an iMod as soon as I figure out which one I don't want...
you can pull the rubber pad on the emod to lighten them up. i generally did this on my sopmods. not actually to lighten them up- rather just because i like a hard buttstock- but it was an added benny.
i agree with belmont that they're tough stocks. i think the sopmod is probably the last of all telescoping stocks that'll break under hard use. i've never broken one, and never seen one broken that wasn't hit by an IED (and there have been many more than have survived IEDs) or run over by a track vehicle or something. i've seen a few broken M4s, and even broken at least two myself.. i haven't broken a vltor yet- but i haven't been using them that long- just comparing appearances, i'd guess the sopmod is significantly less likely to break.
so if you're trying to build the most bomb-proof weapon you can, the sopmod is definitely the right choice. and, again, like belmont said, if you buy them attached to complete lowers, it's actually a pretty good value. you get a spiffy LMT-marked lower, one of the best LPKs not available, arguably the best receiver extension available, AND the toughest stock there is.
This is the 2nd Recce I've built using Noveske bbls. Excellent shooters! My first Recce put a huge dent on the woodchuck population around here.
I like the SOPMOD because it is Mil issue gear and I can add some more weight to the aft end by sticking in batteries or whatever. Its locking lever is right where my muscle memory thinks it should be, so I don't have to do much manipulation to make the stock slide.
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/IMG_3626/web.jpg?ver=12878194520001
Woodchuck Slayer:
http://gallery.me.com/sgtlmj/100169/m4-1/web.jpg?ver=12877947180001
wild_wild_wes
10-25-10, 21:34
So, sgtlmj, you find the lower-power variable works for you? What ranges were you using it at?
wild_wild_wes
10-30-10, 12:08
Okay, moving on to triggers: I have a Geissele DMR trigger on my SPR and like it. Is the DMR good for a Recce, or would the SSA be better?
Okay, moving on to triggers: I have a Geissele DMR trigger on my SPR and like it. Is the DMR good for a Recce, or would the SSA be better?
Depends on what you plan on using it for, but to maintain the versatility and durability of the 16" / Recce platform, an SSA would be best. DMR triggers in carbines tend to work against the user by not giving that tactile "pull" feeling (especially when firing rapidly) and also don't tend to last as long as their combat-grade trigger counterparts.
The DMR is a match-grade trigger that is used on combat guns for extreme precision roles, but it is not necessarily a "combat trigger." The SSA is mid-ground two-stage combat trigger that can be used in a precision role.
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