View Full Version : POF p415 Recon V. SCAR 16s
My wife has given me a golden opprotunity to purchase any rifle of my choice for my birthday this summer and I am having a very difficult time deciding. I have limited it to the two rifles mentioned in the post. I have fired the POF but not the SCAR but will be doing so latter this summer. I have done some searching but not really found any negative press on either rifle other than the SCAR stock breaking in rare instances. So I bring my delima to the M4 Carbine experts. If it were up to you which would you choose and why?
PS. Thanks for all that you guys do here. I have learned alot from reading the many posts here.
Rescuegunner
05-11-10, 10:28
I own a POF P415-16-12SX, and if I had to do it all over again, I would buy the exact same rifle. My only complaint (if I even had to think of one) would be that it is a little front heavy due to the heavy barrel and the rail system, but nothing too bad to turn me off to it.
My departments SWAT team recently replaced their Colt shorties for POF shorties, 11" I believe.
I was talking to one of the guys about it and he said they were having some reliability problems with the short Colts. Then it would take weeks or sometimes months for replacement parts or rifles from Colt.
POF is local here and therefor replacement parts or other work doesnt require shipping rifles.
He also said that the POFs have been super reliable and proved to be very accurate.
variablebinary
05-12-10, 02:13
Personally, I'd go SCAR
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/017.jpg
I have both and shoot both. I love my POF rifles and the SCAR is not far behind. The only negatives for me on the SCAR is the reciprocating charging handle and try to flip up the front sight after firing it. Make sure you have BurnGel on hand.
PM me for a lead on the 12" rail POF rifles.
Good luck with your decisiion and props to your wife!
O
Jscrilla21
05-12-10, 02:36
ACR is coming out soon, you could be the first guy on the block with an ACR :cool:
ChicagoTex
05-12-10, 06:51
SCAR definetely has extra gee-wiz factor at the moment, but doesn't have nearly as strong aftermarket support (something improving daily) or parts availability from FN (something rumored to maybe improve someday...). The SCAR will have better resale, for what that's worth.
The POF accomodates a lot more AR kit without modification and has readily available parts, but has less gee-wiz going for it and is also heavier.
Honestly, if it weren't for the parts issue I'd personally favor the SCAR, so maybe you should take a leap of faith.
Of course if it were me I think I'd just get an MSAR and FAL instead for the money.
Magic_Salad0892
05-12-10, 07:57
Get the POF.
Better yet, a DDM4 and extra parts. ;)
ACR is coming out soon, you could be the first guy on the block with an ACR :cool:
yea, I would but the three thousand clams required I can have something better than an overpriced bushmaster.
The extra cash will fund the Sig p229 project/ Zombie repellent kit.
The guys at a range / gunshop said they have had multiple issues with POF. I was surprised. I saw one such incident where it jammed and they could not get it to breakfree. The guy was shooting beside me, I ask- can I shoot your POF, he said sure if I can get it to work. I never shot it. Both incidents surprised me.
POF are heavy and I don't like their large proprietary rail systems.
I just recently shot a SCAR and found it light with good ergonomics - even the stock trigger was decent.
I'd choose SCAR.
Check out the forums at professional soldiers, they have lot's of negative things to say about the Scar. I wouldn't touch a piston upper AR either but whatever floats your boat.
My departments SWAT team recently replaced their Colt shorties for POF shorties, 11" I believe.
I was talking to one of the guys about it and he said they were having some reliability problems with the short Colts. Then it would take weeks or sometimes months for replacement parts or rifles from Colt.
POF is local here and therefor replacement parts or other work doesnt require shipping rifles.
He also said that the POFs have been super reliable and proved to be very accurate.
Bullshit
[ I wouldn't touch a piston upper AR either but whatever floats your boat.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity why? From my humble understanding the piston adds reliability and ability to avoid gas tube fouling which I experienced with my first rifle (DPMS, I know better know). That is why I like these systems I can shoot the cheapest dirtiest ammo I want supposedly:confused:.
SCAR vs POF
This isn't even a hard decision
A quality military grade firearm made by a real gun company that has the potential to be worth $$ if a ban comes.
Or a gun made with an over sized rail, rail on top of a rail, heavy, billet receivers, snake oil gas piston, and ugly ass colors.
CarlosDJackal
05-12-10, 13:56
SCAR.
crazymoose
05-12-10, 14:18
yea, I would but the three thousand clams required I can have something better than an overpriced bushmaster.
The extra cash will fund the Sig p229 project/ Zombie repellent kit.
I see some ACR's going for less than SCAR prices, even on gunbroker.
To address your question, though, I'd go with the SCAR. The POF I had (one of the older-generation models, before the plated receivers) was fairly underwhelming. Balance was awkward and the recoil was sharper than a DI setup. I never had functional issues with it, but I never really pushed it hard.
Iraq Ninja
05-12-10, 16:32
Gents,
The OP is asking for advice, not a poll. Thus, it would be helpful to explain your choice rather than just post SCAR or POF. As he said, "and why"...
Given the two you mentioned, I would have to say get the SCAR for the same reason Scotty mentioned: military grade in a civilian package.
I am a bit unclear as to your purpose for the rifle, but the SCAR is light and compact enough to use all day and not wear you out. Weapons used outside the range tend to be carried more than shot. Your wife will also like the SCAR more than the POF due to the design. The downside is that spare parts are nil, but I think FN will be around a lot longer than POF.
POF seems to be focused on heat reduction, often at the cost of other factors. For instance, I find the rifle to be a bit front heavy and the rail too large for my tastes. Does the SCAR have an issue with heat? I don't think so.
Are you left handed? If so, the SCAR is a great choice.
Lastly, don't discount the ACR just because Bushmaster is making it. There is a big difference between the quality of their normal carbines, and the ACR. It is not as tested as the SCAR, but I think has a lot of potential.
PrivateCitizen
05-12-10, 16:49
SCAR vs POF
This isn't even a hard decision
A quality military grade firearm made by a real gun company that has the potential to be worth $$ if a ban comes.
Or a gun made with an over sized rail, rail on top of a rail, heavy, billet receivers, snake oil gas piston, and ugly ass colors.
Tell us how you really feel … :D
I have 3 POF uppers. All but one are safe queens now. My noveske and colts get much more range time. I dont like the POF's for previously mentioned reasons. Also I find the OP piston to be much less reliable than a DI rod. Ive had pistons break and when I told POF the response I got was "it happens, 125 dollers for a new one"
Pissed me off. Im back to buying only DI M4's. When I get a chance ill pick up an ACR or SCAR but im not excited about either.
To the original poster - I'm curious why are your choices limited down to POF or SCAR?
I should have been more specific when describing the useage of the new rifle in question.
1. This will be my go to gun for shtf
2. Training with an instructor somewhere in NC (If you got good names send them via pm)
3. I will be competing in 3 gun matches in the near future
4. Home defense
5. Want to eventually buy/build wife another just like the rifle I decide on once she is proficient
6. The ever important extreme reliability/durability like firing thousands of rounds with very rare cleaning (I like to be a bit rough on my guns)
7. Ease of finding replacement parts (hopefully not too often)
Hopes this clarifies a bit more to my purpose on this purchase.
To the original poster - I'm curious why are your choices limited down to POF or SCAR?
I chose these two b/c they are both piston rifles.
The POF is made in USA and seems to have a reliable reputation
The scar is a military grade rifle w/cool kid factor
I did consider Noveske but i liked the features of the other two when compared.
crazymoose
05-12-10, 19:33
I chose these two b/c they are both piston rifles.
The POF is made in USA and seems to have a reliable reputation
The scar is a military grade rifle w/cool kid factor
I did consider Noveske but i liked the features of the other two when compared.
I'm as big a critic of Bushmaster as the next guy, but I too think you should perhaps consider the ACR. If I were in your shoes, given your criteria, I'd wait a few months and see what the early adopters of the ACR say about how the rifles are holding up.
I am fairly confident in the design, though. Magpul and BM did take their sweet time on this one, and the indications are that, complaints about the unavailability of the "deluxe" model aside, the basic system is well thought out and quite reliable. And as I said before, the ACR can be had for less than a SCAR-L.
variablebinary
05-12-10, 20:26
Why POF if you dont mind me asking?
Why not an LMT or LWRC?
Why POF if you dont mind me asking?
Why not an LMT or LWRC?
+1 and why havent you ordered a SCAR yet? :D
I too am wondering why just POF - LWRC, or even a Colt or DD with an drop-in aftermarket piston kit you can swap in or out when you want to. Would still cost less than a SCAR with more $$ to burn.
If this is a SHTF gun as your #1 choice, stick with the AR platform. life will suck for you once a SCAR part breaks and the only thing the Zombies are carrying are ARs - you'll have to switch then.
OTOH, if you have a lot of ARs, go for the SCAR just for the collection.
I should have been more specific when describing the useage of the new rifle in question.
1. This will be my go to gun for shtf
2. Training with an instructor somewhere in NC (If you got good names send them via pm)
3. I will be competing in 3 gun matches in the near future
4. Home defense
5. Want to eventually buy/build wife another just like the rifle I decide on once she is proficient
6. The ever important extreme reliability/durability like firing thousands of rounds with very rare cleaning (I like to be a bit rough on my guns)
7. Ease of finding replacement parts (hopefully not too often)
Hopes this clarifies a bit more to my purpose on this purchase.
Sounds to me like you want a high quality DI AR. It's going to take years for SCAR parts/upgrades to even approach the availability the AR platform enjoys.
1. This will be my go to gun for shtf
2. Training with an instructor somewhere in NC (If you got good names send them via pm)
3. I will be competing in 3 gun matches in the near future
4. Home defense
5. Want to eventually buy/build wife another just like the rifle I decide on once she is proficient
6. The ever important extreme reliability/durability like firing thousands of rounds with very rare cleaning (I like to be a bit rough on my guns)
7. Ease of finding replacement parts (hopefully not too often
Hmmm...given your intended uses, you would be FAR better off getting a good quality 16" mid-length DI AR15 (Bravo, Noveske, MSTN, etc...) with a quality rail system (LaRue, DD, etc...) and good RDS optic. For that matter a good Colt 6920, DD, LMT or other top tier DI AR15 would be a better option than the two you listed. You would be incredibly naive to go with the POF; the SCAR is a good rifle, but does not yet have ready parts availability in the civilian sector nor does it offer the versatility of the AR15 at this time. North Carolina is blessed with a surplus of outstanding instructors, for example VTAC and Tiger Swan.
i really want a scar to SBR. how do people have sbr when they cant get the barrel chop process done correctly?
Bullshit
Call bullshit all you want but its true.
Im not trying to say that the Colts were bad guns. But when you really run a shorty, things might start breaking. Then when they sent them back to Colt for repairs, it took a long time for them to return.
That might not be the only reason they are making the switch, maybe POF gave them a good deal, but thats what the guy told me.
BTW, if you think Im a POF fanboy, I dont like pistons.
i really want a scar to SBR. how do people have sbr when they cant get the barrel chop process done correctly?
Any good gunsmith can cut a SCAR barrel with no issues at all. They jusy needa magic saw blade, thats all....:p
Heavy Metal
05-13-10, 09:54
Hmmm...given your intended uses, you would be FAR better off getting a good quality 16" mid-length DI AR15 (Bravo, Noveske, MSTN, etc...) with a quality rail system (LaRue, DD, etc...) and good RDS optic. For that matter a good Colt 6920, DD, LMT or other top tier DI AR15 would be a better option than the two you listed. You would be incredibly naive to go with the POF; the SCAR is a good rifle, but does not yet have ready parts availability in the civilian sector nor does it offer the versatility of the AR15 at this time. North Carolina is blessed with a surplus of outstanding instructors, for example VTAC and Tiger Swan.
Don't forget Larry Vickers.
Magic_Salad0892
05-13-10, 11:33
If you want a 5.56mm piston rifle.
Run an LWRCi or LMT.
I can't see a real reason to run a POF if you aren't limited to it or the SCAR.
If you've narrowed it down to that, I think you should reexamine your options.
If you insist though, run the POF. Much more proven, with more after-market support.
BTW: Pistons and shit, bending, cracking, and breaking is a QC issue. I've not seen or heard of that with LWRCi or LMT.
Call bullshit all you want but its true.
Its not. Someone has an agenda.
I assume these were 933s with 11.5" barrels?
A high quality standard AR doesn't just "keep breaking"
This is the same bullshit line I have heard the Omaha PD firearm instructor give me. They traded a bunch of Colts for LMT because "the Colts were so out of spec" a railed hand guard wouldn't fit.
Magic_Salad0892
05-13-10, 12:02
Colt out of spec?
They would shit themselves if they heard that.
Thanks fir the extra deatil OP/
If you considered Noveske I would seriously reconsider them again. Now they even include the Vltor I-Mod stock as standard as well as their QD end plate sling mount too.
As far as cleaning with DI - it's been my experience that you don't have to clean a quality DI AR rifle as much as legend indicates provided that you use a good quality lubricant like Slip 2000.
Disclosure: I have 2x Noveske N4 Light Recce (16" mid length gas) that are simply fantastic, reliable with all sorts of ammo, and very accurate.
Its not. Someone has an agenda.
I assume these were 933s with 11.5" barrels?
A high quality standard AR doesn't just "keep breaking"
This is the same bullshit line I have heard the Omaha PD firearm instructor give me. They traded a bunch of Colts for LMT because "the Colts were so out of spec" a railed hand guard wouldn't fit.
Oh ok. I thought you were saying I was full of shit:D
I agree that the Colts are good rifles. I was just saying what was told to me by the guys with the guns.
But they still are happy with their POF rifles. Im not a piston guy but I was impressed with the rifles when I handled them. You are right about the large quad rail.
Magic_Salad0892
05-13-10, 15:36
The POF quad rail is obnoxious as hell. I hate it.
Jay Cunningham
05-13-10, 15:44
If the OPs question has not been answered, he can contact me to reopen this thread.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.