Israel primed for war with Iran.

[rifleman2000]

In his address to the Fisher Institute for Air & Space Strategic Studies, Yaalon said Israel was in a proxy war with Iran due to its sponsorship of Lebanon's Hezbollah guerrillas and the Palestinian Islamic movement Hamas.

"There is no doubt, looking at the overall situation, that we are already in a military confrontation with Iran," he said. "Iran is the main motivator of those attacking us."

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-48365520100510?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=11732

[Abraxas]

To be honest, I am surprised that this is news. I don't mean that in a smart ass way towards you, just that this does not seem like new info. Though much of it was assumption on my part. I just don't see that Israel can do anything else. The problems over there are not going to go away all of a sudden.

[GermanSynergy]

The asymmetric nature of the conflict between Israel & Iran recently illustrated in the summer 2006 war in Lebanon, IMHO.

[Alex V]

To be honest, I am surprised that this is news. I don't mean that in a smart ass way towards you, just that this does not seem like new info. Though much of it was assumption on my part on my part. I just don't see that Israel can do anything else. The problems over there are not going to go away all of a sudden.

It is if you "all of a sudden" you mean many many megatons worth of nuclear ordnance lol

Either way, I agree with you. Nothing new, and not going anywhere within the foreseeable future...

[rifleman2000]

It is if you "all of a sudden" you mean many many megatons worth of nuclear ordnance lol

Either way, I agree with you. Nothing new, and not going anywhere within the foreseeable future...

I think it is going somewhere soon and you can quote me on that. Within two years.

[austinN4]

I think it is going somewhere soon and you can quote me on that. Within two years.
I think you are right. What I want to know is how it ends.

[Abraxas]

I think it is going somewhere soon and you can quote me on that. Within two years.

I wholeheartedly agree. Again, I just don't see that Israel can do anything else.


What I want to know is how it ends.
That is the trillion dollar question

[GermanSynergy]

In that case it is time to stock up on IMI ammunition :D

[rifleman2000]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece

This is from September 2007. The Israelis will not let Iran get nukes. The interesting part of the Israeli strike on Syria is that Syria and Iran both have the same air defense equipment provided by Russia. Which totally failed to detect the Israelis. An Indian army officer in Iran said that in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Syria the Iranian military crapped on themselves. They were counting on their air defense network that has been proven worthless.

I can only think the Israelis are holding back for political reasons, but when it is time they will go.

As a side note, the Iranian government is not very stable. The population of Iran is very westernized and against their government. In Israeli strike may topple the Iranian government.

[Abraxas]

The interesting part of the Israeli strike on Syria is that Syria and Iran both have the same air defense equipment provided by Russia. Which totally failed to detect the Israelis. An Indian army officer in Iran said that in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Syria the Iranian military crapped on themselves. They were counting on their air defense network that has been proven worthless.


I listened to a interview of Richard Clarke not too long ago. He talked about this being one of the biggest successes of a military hacking someones system to support an operation. He said that the Israelis were able to hack their system so that it did not light up when they came in to hit the target. He said that they also used it to shut down some of their communications. So I wonder if the Iranians have the same weak spots

[rifleman2000]

I listened to a interview of Richard Clarke not too long ago. He talked about this being one of the biggest successes of a military hacking someones system to support an operation. He said that the Israelis were able to hack their system so that it did not light up when they came in to hit the target. He said that they also used it to shut down some of their communications. So I wonder if the Iranians have the same weak spots

I heard postulations that it was some jamming that was so good they did not know they were being jammed. But hacking the system make sense.

[Dragon Slayer]

The day that Israel will hit Iran is coming, there is no question about that. The questions are when will it happen?

Will the Obama administration help, hinder, oppose the attack and what will the Obama administrations reaction will be if Israel does it anyway against the administrations opposition?

I have no doubt in my mind that they will do it one way or another with or without Americas help or blessing because they have to do it or risk getting hit by a nuclear weapon and most of us know that Israel is over with with one hit.

[lomp64]

Is it possible Israel is just waiting for a friendlier United States Government?

Seems like Obama and co. have made no secret about how they really feel about Israel despite what may have been said to the press recently.

[Dragon Slayer]

Is it possible Israel is just waiting for a friendlier United States Government?

Seems like Obama and co. have made no secret about how they really feel about Israel despite what may have been said to the press recently.

As I said Israel can not afford to wait for anybody or anything because their very existence is at stake. But they might be giving a chance to the Obama administration to see the light and change their attitude towards Israel when they see that Israel waited until it could wait no more.

[GermanSynergy]

99% of the world hates Israel already for simply existing, so I can see them going for broke striking Iran.

[dmanflynn]

It sucks that hardly anybody is supporting Israel in this. Even the US wants to take the approach of, ohh poor iran, its their right to seek nuclear "power":rolleyes: Like Iran is building nuclear power plants.... Why is it that nobody supports Israel striking Iran even though Iran has publicly stated that it intends to strike Israel? I mean I know that I and other individuals support them but its like the number of countries that did support them is dropping off to nill as the conflict brews.

I just wonder how many countries are going to get stirred into the mix when the shtf, WWIII?! I mean hell, when you start talking nukes its not just mortar and missile strikes anymore. Next 2 years for sure:(

[dmanflynn]

In that case it is time to stock up on IMI ammunition :D

And desert eagles:D I got a mint little baby eagle that might go up in price:p

[Dragon Slayer]

And desert eagles:D I got a mint little baby eagle that might go up in price:p

It is going to be more Iranian/Persian rugs that will be scarce and going up in price after Israel strikes them not baby eagles or desert eagles.;):D

[GermanSynergy]

I've heard that there is a large Jewish population in Iran. Wouldn't an Israeli strike give the Iranian Hitler and his mullahs an excuse to harm these folks?

[Dragon Slayer]

I've heard that there is a large Jewish population in Iran. Wouldn't an Israeli strike give the Iranian Hitler and his mullahs an excuse to harm these folks?

After an Israeli surgical strike it will be clear to Amahandjob and his mullah's that they can stay alive or call on themselves total destruction by their actions, the choice is going to be theirs.;):(

I do not think that there is a large Jewish population in Iran, at best there is a very small one and frankly it was their choice to stay or leave. Many Iranian Jews left and are living in Israel and other parts of the world a very long time ago.

I hate to say that but when it comes to the question of Israels survival and a few thousand Jews being put at risk the choice is clear.:(

[ROGOPGEAR]

not to go religious on you guys, but this has already all been prophesied for thousands of years. Israel will be fine.

[Dragon Slayer]

not to go religious on you guys, but this has already all been prophesied for thousands of years. Israel will be fine.

From your mouth to the Almighty's ears.:)

[dmanflynn]

not to go religious on you guys, but this has already all been prophesied for thousands of years. Israel will be fine.

Absolutely, I just think its crazy how little support they get. And I do wonder to what magnitude it will effect the world? Deep stuff

[Dragon Slayer]

Absolutely, I just think its crazy how little support they get. And I do wonder to what magnitude it will effect the world? Deep stuff

The reason they do not get more support is because the morals and ethics of this world are in the sewer or the world is full of cowards. They elected Iran to the committee for womens rights in the UN and Libya to the committee for human rights some time ago.:rolleyes:
You tell me if I am wrong.

[GermanSynergy]

The reason they do not get more support is because the morals and ethics of this world are in the sewer or the world is full of cowards. They elected Iran to the committee for womens rights in the UN and Libya to the committee for human rights some time ago.:rolleyes:
You tell me if I am wrong.

Now all they need is North Korea and Zimbabwe running a committee of human rights.... This sounds like a bad Monty Python plot......

[C-grunt]

When I was in Iraq I would talk with this guy who worked at a power plant. He was an Iraqi scout during the Iran Iraq war.

He was telling me that the Iran military is full of a bunch of untrained, drugged conscripts. He had a story about over watching a mine field. The Iraninas came to the minefield and would use their soldiers to walk a path until they crossed it.

I would think in a full blown no hands tied war, Isreal will crush Iran.

[Abraxas]

When I was in Iraq I would talk with this guy who worked at a power plant. He was an Iraqi scout during the Iran Iraq war.

He was telling me that the Iran military is full of a bunch of untrained, drugged conscripts. He had a story about over watching a mine field. The Iranians came to the minefield and would use their soldiers to walk a path until they crossed it.

I would think in a full blown no hands tied war, Israel will crush Iran.

While I do think that in a head to head, Israel would beat Iran, I am not sure that they would crush them easily. I thought that they would easily crush Hezbollah, and that turned out to not be a walk in the park.

[Trajan]

Sounds like Israel is looking for an excuse.
If anything happens I will be surprised.

If anything does happen, Israel will win, UNLESS Russia and/or China gets involved. Could be World War 3.

I do find it odd that Obama is going against Israel. They supposedly have a large lobby here in the US.

[Dragon Slayer]

I do find it odd that Obama is going against Israel. They supposedly have a large lobby here in the US.

The Oil Lobby is much bigger and with a President that always was pro Arab/Muslim, Israel does not and never did stand a chance.

[Abraxas]

The Oil Lobby is much bigger and with a President that always was pro Arab/Muslim, Israel does not and never did stand a chance.

Which begs the question of, why do Jewish voters support Obama by a margin of 70%? At least that was the number I saw last week.

[Dragon Slayer]

Which begs the question of, why do Jewish voters support Obama by a margin of 70%? At least that was the number I saw last week.

In the past Jews identified with the secular left because the religious right used to blame the Jews for everything including the killing of Christ. We all know that with time this has changed and the biggest supporters of the Jews and the state of Israel are the religious Christians, these are the real Christians the ones that do not believe and follow old prejudices and follow the Bible at its word.

Also do not forget that most old Jews came to this country from other countries that were devout Christians (as an example Spain where Jews are hated to this day) and the old hatred and prejudices prevailed in those countries and some of the biggest atrocities happened because of those prejudices. So the Jews identifying with the secular left was a natural follow up.

The one thing that Jews did not get was that they will be hated just because they are Jews religion or not by some on either side.
Some are starting to get it and Obama is helping greatly in that and the Christian and the secular conservatives support for Israel is starting to change many young Jewish peoples minds and I think the split is closer to 50/50 if you do not count New York.

Don't forget Bush got elected twice in Florida because many Jews voted for him because of his support of the State of Israel when in other times he would have lost there.

[Dragon Slayer]

By the way the Israeli Jewish support for Obama and his policies is at 4% when it was much much higher before the election.

[Mauser KAR98K]

Under Bush, if Israel went all out on Iran I could see them winning hands down with our support and stern eye to other nations. But now under President Obama, I think they are going to have a real tough time, forcing the war to drag out that will crumple world opinion that is on their side. Since most countries and terrorist see Obama as weak (proof of the recent attempted terrorist attacks; his no show of great support during the Iranian election fiasco of June, 2008; and his great apology tour of the Muslim world), other countries like Russia, China, and NKorea will put their hands in the game, and could possibly force Israel to loose.

Bad all around.

In any case, buy IMI stuff to help boost Israel's cash flow to stock up on better weapons. A Baby Eagle looks promising in my future if this situation starts looking to really fold out.

[armakraut]

Any ordnance Israel drops on Iran might measured in the kilotons on up. There is a good chance that if they mounted a large scale conventional operation it would not only fail to achieve their goals in any long term sense, but there is also a danger that US public or political opinion could against them causing a repeat of the embargoes after the six-day war. If they want to survive they have to destroy the ability and will of their enemies to wage war.

[arizonaranchman]

Sounds like Israel is looking for an excuse.
If anything happens I will be surprised.

If anything does happen, Israel will win, UNLESS Russia and/or China gets involved. Could be World War 3.

I do find it odd that Obama is going against Israel. They supposedly have a large lobby here in the US.

Obama is a radical muslim is why. He's a closet sympathizer with the middle east.

[Mjolnir]

Despite all of the proselytizing sympathies for Israel both Putin and Medved have publicly stated that an attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Russia and have changed their nuclear usage policy to include "conventional attacks on Russia". I "get it". I am not at all interested in determining if Putin-Medved are serious or not, either. If the bulk of the persons are incorrect; what happens then??

[skyugo]

It sucks that hardly anybody is supporting Israel in this. Even the US wants to take the approach of, ohh poor iran, its their right to seek nuclear "power":rolleyes: Like Iran is building nuclear power plants.... Why is it that nobody supports Israel striking Iran even though Iran has publicly stated that it intends to strike Israel? I mean I know that I and other individuals support them but its like the number of countries that did support them is dropping off to nill as the conflict brews.

I just wonder how many countries are going to get stirred into the mix when the shtf, WWIII?! I mean hell, when you start talking nukes its not just mortar and missile strikes anymore. Next 2 years for sure:(

of course iran is building nuclear power plants, they need them! it's not like they're sitting on an ocean of oil... oh wait :o

[Dragon Slayer]

Despite all of the proselytizing sympathies for Israel both Putin and Medved have publicly stated that an attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Russia and have changed their nuclear usage policy to include "conventional attacks on Russia". I "get it". I am not at all interested in determining if Putin-Medved are serious or not, either. If the bulk of the persons are incorrect; what happens then??

If Israel attacks Iran then it is between Israel, Iran and Russia if the Russians want to attack Israel not America, so do not worry you are safe from a Russian attack because Obama will not lift a finger to help Israel.

The other solution is that Israel does nothing, Iran puts one Nuke on Israel and it is all over and the world gets rid of those pesky Jew's in the middle east and maybe later everywhere else.:rolleyes:

Then of course Iran is happy they got rid of the "little satan" and they got away with it so why not try a few more nukes on the "great satan" and put it in its place and see what happens because the great satan will be afraid to move because Putke said an attack on Iran is an attack on Russia.:rolleyes:

How do you like this scenario?:rolleyes:

Do not forget sometimes you have to do what you have to do and take your chances that's the way things go.:rolleyes:

[rifleman2000]

If Israel attacks Iran then it is between Israel, Iran and Russia if the Russians want to attack Israel not America, so do not worry you are safe from a Russian attack because Obama will not lift a finger to help Israel.

The other solution is that Israel does nothing, Iran puts one Nuke on Israel and it is all over and the world gets rid of those pesky Jew's in the middle east and maybe later everywhere else.:rolleyes:

Then of course Iran is happy they got rid of the "little satan" and they got away with it so why not try a few more nukes on the "great satan" and put it in its place and see what happens because the great satan will be afraid to move because Putke said an attack on Iran is an attack on Russia.:rolleyes:

How do you like this scenario?:rolleyes:

Do not forget sometimes you have to do what you have to do and take your chances that's the way things go.:rolleyes:

Obama will avert war by bowing to all of our enemies, thus demonstrating our peaceful nature.

[TOrrock]

Israel can't hit Iran without US or Turkish permission, and that's not going to happen.

[rifleman2000]

Israel can't hit Iran without US or Turkish permission, and that's not going to happen.

If Israel thinks it is a matter of life or death, they will. I don't think many nations, Israel among them, are particularly intimidated by our current 'resolve' to back up anything.

Israel will go without us.

[kmrtnsn]

Number One, no war has ever been won solely on the use of air power, ground troops would have to be committed.

Number Two, Israel CANNOT project air power that far, beyond the bingo point of their fighters, without the substantial assistance of someone.

Israel has less than 70 F15's and less than 300 F16's. Assuming a 100% mission capable rate, they would have to commit at least 50% of their air fleet to a first strike (at least 50%, because they are going to have to do it with buddy stores) with 25 percent of the remaining for air defense and the other 25% for a second sortie. Air combat losses, how would they replace them, from where, how soon?

If the two previous wars are any indication expect the neighboring air forces to sortie after Israel's first strike to hit the planes flying home after having gone winchester. 8 hours of flying, no fuel, out of ammo, how do you think they'd fare against Saudi F15's and Syrian and Egyptian Mig 29's and SU 27 Flankers? Do you think any IAF General in his right mind is going to take that gamble.

Without an air force Israel is defenseless. Israel isn't going to do shit against Iran. They cannot afford to, the can't risk the loss of their CAP umbrella. Doing something like this would leave them all alone, they cannot survive without the 6 billion plus dollars a year we stuff their treasury with and that checkbook would close after any attack on Iran. Despite their chest thumping the IAF and the IDF aren't all of that without someone standing behind them to back them up.

[TOrrock]

As a side note, the Iranian government is not very stable. The population of Iran is very westernized and against their government. In Israeli strike may topple the Iranian government.


While the first part is very true, the younger generation is much more secular and ready for change, I'll disagree with you on the effects of an Israeli strike....it would solidify the govt's control and would serve as a rallying point that would unite the population.

[Dragon Slayer]

Number One, no war has ever been won solely on the use of air power, ground troops would have to be committed.

Number Two, Israel CANNOT project air power that far, beyond the bingo point of their fighters, without the substantial assistance of someone.

Israel has less than 70 F15's and less than 300 F16's. Assuming a 100% mission capable rate, they would have to commit at least 50% of their air fleet to a first strike (at least 50%, because they are going to have to do it with buddy stores) with 25 percent of the remaining for air defense and the other 25% for a second sortie. Air combat losses, how would they replace them, from where, how soon?

If the two previous wars are any indication expect the neighboring air forces to sortie after Israel's first strike to hit the planes flying home after having gone winchester. 8 hours of flying, no fuel, out of ammo, how do you think they'd fare against Saudi F15's and Syrian and Egyptian Mig 29's and SU 27 Flankers? Do you think any IAF General in his right mind is going to take that gamble.

Without an air force Israel is defenseless. Israel isn't going to do shit against Iran. They cannot afford to, the can't risk the loss of their CAP umbrella. Doing something like this would leave them all alone, they cannot survive without the 6 billion plus dollars a year we stuff their treasury with and that checkbook would close after any attack on Iran. Despite their chest thumping the IAF and the IDF aren't all of that without someone standing behind them to back them up.

You are making assumptions with out knowing what you are talking about, when the IAF will hit Iran it will be with very few planes that will sneak into Iran over other air space flying below radar range like they did in the past when they hit Iraq and had to fly over enemy territory, you see they had to fly over Jordan or Syria to get to Iraq.

When they Hit the Syrian reactor recently nobody saw them coming either when they flew over most of Syria.

You do not need 1/2 of the IAF to do the job specially when one or two bombs can do the job. Also if you think any other Arab state will attack Israeli planes because they hit Iran you really don't know what you are talking about, most Arab states are petrified with fear from Iran getting stronger and acquiring Nukes.

Israel does not get 6 billion dollars from the US it gets approx 3 billion and most of it has to be spent here buying weapons, it is time that Israel stops getting all aide from the US specially with Obama in power so they do not have to do anything that will put them at risk trying to please a hostile administration that is more pro Arab.

And assuming that you are right and Israel can not fly over there and bomb maybe they will use their Nuclear armed missiles on their submarines that can reach Iran easily with out sacrificing one plane.

[TOrrock]

DS, they hit Syria with our permission and assistance.

There is no way they're going to be able to fly through Iraqi airspace, which we control, without our permission.

The Turks certainly aren't going to give their permission.

If anything, the Saudi's might allow something under the table. They're scared shitless of a nuclear armed Shiite power next door to them. They gave tacit approval of the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah.

[rljatl]

One or two non-nuclear bombs cannot do the job. Iran has at least six critical nuclear facilities. I've heard experts interviewed that said even with USA assistance and USA bunker buster bombs, it would take days and repeated strikes. The Iranians have nearly bomb-proofed their nuclear installations. Obama's delay has just made the situation worse by giving the Iranians even more time to fortify their installations.

My understanding is also that Israel cannot fly that distance without USA air to air refueling assistance and must over fly US controlled air space. Neither of which will Obama allow. Israel does have ICBMs and submarines that could be used.

[Dragon Slayer]

DS, they hit Syria with our permission and assistance.

.

They hit Syria with our permission because they knew they would get it from GWB, but they did not need it.;)

[rifleman2000]

DS, they hit Syria with our permission and assistance.

There is no way they're going to be able to fly through Iraqi airspace, which we control, without our permission.

The Turks certainly aren't going to give their permission.

If anything, the Saudi's might allow something under the table. They're scared shitless of a nuclear armed Shiite power next door to them. They gave tacit approval of the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah.

You are right there, but I don't think Obama will have the balls to say no when they tell him "shoot us down then" and overfly Iraq anyway.

[mattjmcd]

DS, they hit Syria with our permission and assistance.

There is no way they're going to be able to fly through Iraqi airspace, which we control, without our permission.

The Turks certainly aren't going to give their permission.

If anything, the Saudi's might allow something under the table. They're scared shitless of a nuclear armed Shiite power next door to them. They gave tacit approval of the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah.

One idea I've heard bandied about is that the the Saudis might look the other way when/if the IAF infiltrates the inner desert and builds a covert expeditionary field from which to launch a series of strikes. Possible, IMO, but doubtful given the challenges associated with that.

I agree with you, though. Iran is a complex problem. Their nuke program is no doubt hidden, hardened, and redundant. One quick strike isn't going to do it. Not that it matters, because they (the IAF) don't have the requisite gear to go that far without the strike hitting at least 2 tankers, maybe more. We own all of the airspace where that would likely happen, and I don't see Obama giving that a green light.

There was a decent discussion of this issue over at sigforum a ways back. I noted that at least 1 Israeli diesel SS recently made a daylight transit of the Suez Canal, which seems to me to be an open signal to Iran that they might have the intention of using missiles to knock back their facilities some. Or maybe insert Matkal/Shaldag to spike one or more of their facilites..?

[Dragon Slayer]

One or two non-nuclear bombs cannot do the job. Iran has at least six critical nuclear facilities. I've heard experts interviewed that said even with USA assistance and USA bunker buster bombs, it would take days and repeated strikes. The Iranians have nearly bomb-proofed their nuclear installations. Obama's delay has just made the situation worse by giving the Iranians even more time to fortify their installations.

My understanding is also that Israel cannot fly that distance without USA air to air refueling assistance and must over fly US controlled air space. Neither of which will Obama allow. Israel does have ICBMs and submarines that could be used.

If they hit Iran's nuclear facilities it will be with some sort of low yield nuclear bombs that will do mostly local damage and if one or two is not enough it will be six or ten.

But as I said before if all else fails it will be ICBMS, cruise missiles from sub's with tactical weapons.

Also the assumption like someone else said that you can not win a war with air power is true unless you are not trying to occupy the country or you show such a degree of force that stops all hostile intentions and actions in their track.

When Israel destroyed the Iraqi nuclear reactor they did not follow with a ground invasion, the hit in itself was good enough to accomplish its goal.

Because Iraq like Iran does not have a border with Israel and could not do shit with out the permission of the countries surrounding Israel to reach Israel which considering the consequences of what might happen those countries will be very reluctant in giving their permission.

[Dragon Slayer]

Look I was in both the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War and in both cases we sat just a few miles away from Cairo and Damascus and like we are sitting right across from Gaza today, we never bombed those cities and everything around them into the ground and killed hundreds of thousands even if we could have done it.

Israelis and Jew's are good people and we did not hurt anybody unless we and our existence is in mortal danger, maybe if we would have done it then it would have been a different story today.

If we have to do it I think this time they might find that they pushed Israel too far and I promise they will not like it.

[TOrrock]

Look I was in both the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War and in both cases we sat just a few miles away from Cairo and Damascus and like we are sitting right across from Gaza today, we never bombed those cities and everything around them into the ground and killed hundreds of thousands even if we could have done it.

Israelis and Jew's are good people and we did not hurt anybody unless we and our existence is in mortal danger, maybe if we would have done it then it would have been a different story today.

If we have to do it I think this time they might find that they pushed Israel too far and I promise they will not like it.


Dude, I'm very pro Israeli on most issues and that's why I'm saying this.....there's no way they'd use nukes on Iran first. They're not that stupid. If they did, they would be standing alone in the world (and no, they're not a lone now) and I believe it would bring about their fall.

[Submariner]

not to go religious on you guys, but this has already all been prophesied for thousands of years. Israel will be fine.

Fine? Don't 2/3 of them get smoked.

[variablebinary]

Many are making Iran out to be something it's not.

By most accounts, the Islamic revolution has been a failure in Iran. It's holding on by a thread, and in no position to lob nukes at Israel. They didn't even use chemical weapons on Iraq after Saddam gassed them.

2/3 of the population is under 30, and they would rather have Ipods, get laid, and roll around in oil money than go to war. Culturally most Iranians are closer to be pre-Islamic revolution "Persians", than religious zealots.

If we play it right, Iran is ripe for being the next Dubai or Qatar. Not playing it right is playing Israel's bodyguard all the time, because it is not always in our interest to do so.

[rifleman2000]

Many are making Iran out to be something it's not.

By most accounts, the Islamic revolution has been a failure in Iran. It's holding on by a thread, and in no position to lob nukes at Israel. They didn't even use chemical weapons on Iraq after Saddam gassed them.

2/3 of the population is under 30, and they would rather have Ipods, get laid, and roll around in oil money than go to war. Culturally most Iranians are closer to be pre-Islamic revolution "Persians", than religious zealots.

If we play it right, Iran is ripe for being the next Dubai or Qatar. Not playing it right is playing Israel's bodyguard all the time, because it is not always in our interest to do so.

The government of Iran would nuke us in 5 seconds if they thought they could get away with it. Not that they are alone in this...

[Mjolnir]

Fine? Don't 2/3 of them get smoked. No, they get pushed into the sea with their allies according to some. It matters not to me; I'm not "feeling" this "war is good" vibe. Initiating a potential WW III scenario is quite foolhardy. We have enough issues here.

MY Philosophy is: War is *NEVER* morally justified but Self-Defense is demanded of ALL.

In other words, no covert or economic "warfare"; treat all as you wish to be treated (i.e., fairly); have strong (in this order) Militia and Military defenses; focus on internal development and refrain from meddling in other's affairs; offer market prices for foreign resources and goods. If this were followed we'd have no real enemies and those who did raise their gnarly heads would, indeed, be "evil".

[Mjolnir]

If Israel attacks Iran then it is between Israel, Iran and Russia if the Russians want to attack Israel not America, so do not worry you are safe from a Russian attack because Obama will not lift a finger to help Israel.

The other solution is that Israel does nothing, Iran puts one Nuke on Israel and it is all over and the world gets rid of those pesky Jew's in the middle east and maybe later everywhere else.:rolleyes:

Then of course Iran is happy they got rid of the "little satan" and they got away with it so why not try a few more nukes on the "great satan" and put it in its place and see what happens because the great satan will be afraid to move because Putke said an attack on Iran is an attack on Russia.:rolleyes:

How do you like this scenario?:rolleyes:

Do not forget sometimes you have to do what you have to do and take your chances that's the way things go.:rolleyes:
Your paranoid scenario is highly unlikely. I would never risk a direct confrontation with Russia for ANY nation. Period. Remember the Shanghai Cooperative Organization (SCO)? That's Russia, China and a few of the "Stans". NO grouping of nations could withstand a combined Russia and China and in that scenario Israel would be vaporized anyway since she's probably the third or fourth largest nuclear power. No warring nation would avoid striking Dimona in an all out confrontation.

[Dragon Slayer]

Your paranoid scenario is highly unlikely. I would never risk a direct confrontation with Russia for ANY nation. Period. Remember the Shanghai Cooperative Organization (SCO)? That's Russia, China and a few of the "Stans". NO grouping of nations could withstand a combined Russia and China and in that scenario Israel would be vaporized anyway since she's probably the third or fourth largest nuclear power. No warring nation would avoid striking Dimona in an all out confrontation.

The only unrealistic person (not to call you paranoid) is you. I do not know which world are you living in, Israel has been threatened with annihilation five times already in five major wars since its inception, in 1948, 1957, 1967, 1973 and the Lebanon war (not once but twice).

Continued attacks by terrorists that started by El Fatah, and many more organizations too long to name in the beginning to the PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah today and again many more to name.

All that in the last 62 years of its existence as a state. You can hide your head between your legs and blame all the evils of the world on Israel and the Jews, but do not forget that you never had to send one soldier to die for Israel and if you stay out of it you never will.

Also do not forget that the war today is between Islam and the so called civilized world that has its head buried in the sand and their buts exposed for a good ****.

As I said there is no chance in the world that America will have to fight Russia for Israel, in all the wars that Israel kicked Arab ass Russia did not do anything except prepare more weapons for sale to the same Arabs that had lost them in the prior war after it was all over.

By the way America sends 3 billion a year to Egypt, close to a billion a year to Jordan, has spent a trillion dollars on Iraq, a few hundred million dollars to the Palestinians, and all this countries and their population hate you more then anything else except Israel and you are worried about what America gives or loans to Israel which they always pay back.:rolleyes:

BTW if it comes to Israel getting annihilated by Iran with out doing anything to satisfy other nations or Israel taking action to defend itself even if it pisses some off and causes an attack on Israel by others then as they said in the bible "and Sampson will die with all the philistines/enemies" but will not be slaughtered like sheep and I promise you Israel will take so many millions with it that this ****ing world will have a very hard time recovering.

NEVER AGAIN.:mad:

[Dragon Slayer]

Dude, I'm very pro Israeli on most issues and that's why I'm saying this.....there's no way they'd use nukes on Iran first. They're not that stupid. If they did, they would be standing alone in the world (and no, they're not a lone now) and I believe it would bring about their fall.

Thanks for being pro Israel (on most issues). If the world turns against Israel because they dared defend themselves from annihilation then all bets are off, but before Israel goes out I promise you that all the Arab countries, Iran, and some of their supporters are going into oblivion also in a cloud of radioactive glow and all the oil in the ME will be usable only if they can find a way to use radioactive oil in the cars.

Maybe the world will realize the cost of turning on the Jews and committing another genocide before they do anything.

You see none of you here in this country have felt the threat of total annihilation and genocide, not even in WW2, we felt it over there every day of our life and I do not think anybody understands what a person or a country is capable of doing if they felt that they were being threatened with total annihilation.

[Fenix1442]

It is intersting to have this discussion about Iran and Israel.

Israel has tankers and will use them for their fighters for long range attacks. They don't have a traditional KC-130 or KC-10 but have fitted F-15's to serve this role. I don't know how many they use for that role but I know I have seen them at Nellis with their 16's during Red Flag.

Also Israel will fly anywhere they please in any airspace at anytime. They are that good flying below the deck under various types of radar, SAM's, and AAA. They are not perfect but are better at it than most would give credit for. They give our pilots and ground radar operators fits during Red Flag when they are there.

The question isn't what is Israel going to do with Iran? What is Iran going to do to the Persian Gulf and near by area? Think about what we have at stake in that region as America. Oil isn't the number one reason.

[Dragon Slayer]

It is intersting to have this discussion about Iran and Israel.

Israel has tankers and will use them for their fighters for long range attacks. They don't have a traditional KC-130 or KC-10 but have fitted F-15's to serve this role. I don't know how many they use for that role but I know I have seen them at Nellis with their 16's during Red Flag.

Also Israel will fly anywhere they please in any airspace at anytime. They are that good flying below the deck under various types of radar, SAM's, and AAA. They are not perfect but are better at it than most would give credit for. They give our pilots and ground radar operators fits during Red Flag when they are there.

The question isn't what is Israel going to do with Iran? What is Iran going to do to the Persian Gulf and near by area? Think about what we have at stake in that region as America. Oil isn't the number one reason.

I agree with everything you say except for Iran to be able to do anything they have to have enough time to do it.;)

[Dragon Slayer]

And with above response i am done, I have been warned so thats it.

Thanks

Dragon Slayer (AKA) IKE

[Mjolnir]

"... I promise you Israel will take so many millions with it that this ****ing world will have a very hard time recovering."

NEVER AGAIN.:mad:
This statement gives all of your enemies - and plenty of "fence sitters" - plenty of ammo against you, dude. Chill out. You almost sound suicidal. Hopefully, you don't speak for all Israelis.

[variablebinary]

Thanks for being pro Israel

What does that even mean? Pro Israel?

We shouldn't be pro-Israel anymore than we should be pro-Palestine.

If Israel cant keep its affairs in order, well tough. Same for any nation that attacks Israel and loses land as a result.

Not one American should die for Israeli soil. We should be 100% neutral. This is not our fight. Obama and Bush are both mooks for picking sides. Why again?

If Israel wants to nuke Iran, they need to do it all alone and live with the consequences of their actions. If Iran wants to nuke Israel, likewise.

[Dragon Slayer]

This statement gives all of your enemies - and plenty of "fence sitters" - plenty of ammo against you, dude. Chill out. You almost sound suicidal. Hopefully, you don't speak for all Israelis.

I really feel sorry for you, you have a twisted sense of logic.:rolleyes:

[TOrrock]

These Israeli threads never end well.

Enough.