View Full Version : Best bolt precision rifle for $2000
Alaskapopo
05-15-10, 01:24
I already have the optic. I am selling my GAP AR10 because I want to get better accuracy. I would love a GAP Bolt like the Rock but they are a bit more than I can afford right now. So what is the best bolt for 2K. I was thinking about Remington's Target Tatical. Is it any good? I am going to put my Night force 5.5-22 x56 NSX with a mil dot reticle and a zero stop on it. I would like .5 moa. I want a .308
Pat
Look into FNH USA's SPR A3G model. It's guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA.
How about having a custom built. I have a Hart Barrels cutom barreled action I think I paid 1100 for a donor rifle (Remignton 700 sps) and to have Hart put on one of their barrels, chamber it, square action and lap lugs. i then put it into a Manners stcok. I think I have about 1500 (give or take 100.00). This rifle will do .5 to .7 if I do my part (.7 with regualr hunting loads and .5 with match and handloads).
FYI, my rifle is a .270wsm, I could not be happier about it. Most some barrel makes (hart and spencer) will do the chambering, squaring action.
GeezerHood
05-16-10, 14:01
Pick your favorite action and have a Krieger barrel installed on it by a competent gunsmith. Drop it into a McMillan or if you want to save some cash a Medalist stock.
I am a penny pincher so I almost always go with a Savage action, then add a removable magazine bottom metal that use AI mags and put it in a Stockade or Medalist stock. The Savage has the fastest lock time of any of the factory offerings, doesn't need to be trued due to the barrel nut / floating bolt head system and the price saved over a BAT would pay for almost half of your Nightforce scope and the target accutrigger is superb. Plus you can swap barrels and even bolt heads yourself with minimal tools. You will never have to send your action out again to have a barrel installed. Just buy it prethreaded and fully chambered and you are good to go on the Savage action. Every one of my Savage action rifles will match or in most cases out shoot anything coming from FN, GAP, HS Precision, the Remington custom shop, Sako or Accuracy International. I generally use Pac Nor or Krieger barrels.
get a rem 5r if you can find one and get it set correctly in a mcmillian stock and your close to 2g if you get it bedded correctly mine shoots 1/2 moa all day long
lotsa good choices... NOT a triangular barrelled abomination.
check out snipershide and 6mmbr
(a) 5R or 700P, sell the stock and replace with your choice.
or (b) go custom...lotsa choices for that coin. railled stainless actions are sweet. http://www.6mmbr.com/actions.html
Check out tube guns! That way you won't have to give up your AR ergos.
Do you require a detachable mag system?
Here is a good solution to a custom rifle -
Howa Std. bbl action - 389.00
Timney Trigger - 109.00
McMillan Stock (HTG) - 500.00
Hart barrel and trued action - 650.00
1648.00 (prices based on websites)
Leaves you a little over 300.00 for ammo, reloading supplies, rings and bases.
Littlelebowski
05-17-10, 14:26
Remmy 700, glass, bipod, practice.
Beautiful pics of long range precision receivers compared...
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/raptors-ready-56532/
Alaskapopo
05-18-10, 23:42
Do you require a detachable mag system?
No its a fun rifle
Pat
Gutshot John
05-19-10, 07:30
Have you considered an 700 SPS as giving you everything you need now but can still upgrade the stock, bipod and mount?
It's a lot of rifle in a cheap package.
Littlelebowski
05-19-10, 08:14
Have you considered an 700 SPS as giving you everything you need now but can still upgrade the stock, bipod and mount?
It's a lot of rifle in a cheap package.
This. It will shoot sub MOA out of the box.
I assume the SPS recommendation is for the Varmint model...
The SPS can be had in a tactical rifle. It comes with a 20"bbl and Hogue stock.
Just saw a Rem 700 LTR for, what, $599.00? $699.00? Right about that. Well under your $2k, with plenty of extra for rings, bases, bipods, and ammo.
Just saw a Rem 700 LTR for, what, $599.00? $699.00? Right about that. Well under your $2k, with plenty of extra for rings, bases, bipods, and ammo.
With prudent shopping, a bit left over to have a competent person mount the optic. This cannot be understated. A good job of mounting your optic can make a world of difference in performance.
Since it's just for fun, you don't need to spend extra for the nicer finish of the police models. Also, the "tactical model" is spending much more for a shorter barrel and similarly cheap stock. So I'd stick with the SPS-V for $550, or a heavy ADL at D__k's for $450 (blind mag). Shoot it with the 26" until you decide how much shorter you want, then your smith will put a nice crown and shorten for < $50. You can make the stock a little stiffer with some Marine Tex and bits of carbon fiber arrow shaft or aluminum. I would hold out for a trigger which is tolerable out the door, since a heavy one may involve adjusting so far the screw invades trigger finger space.
I agree about the mounting. At minimum, Talley lightweights (integral ring/mount). Although the entry level recommendation for one-piece base is the EGW, I found the aluminum is very soft.
My LTR with a jewell trigger shoots 5 shots I can cover with a dime
great, great gun
Just to echo what has been mentioned above.....
I have a box stock Rem 700 SPS tactical, mounted a harris bipod, dropped on a Swarovski Habicht fixed 10X and it will shoot right around .75 MOA all day long with Federal 168gr GMM ammo. My partner has one also. He swapped on a McMillian stock and bedded it. It will shoot .5 MOA and I have measured some groups in the low .4's.
This is really all you need, plus quality ammo and quality trigger time.
For $2000, you can get a very good Rem700 built up.
I am a penny pincher so I almost always go with a Savage action, then add a removable magazine bottom metal that use AI mags and put it in a Stockade or Medalist stock. .....
i have only found one place that has just actions (Midwest Hunters Outlet). i also didn't know you can get AI mags with savage.
The Badger and H&S Bottom metal are both good options, there are a couple more. If detachable magazine isn't required, then this won't matter for AKPopo.
I'm still a bit curious how much more you're trying to get out of this than the AR10 you currently have, accuracy wise.
pick one:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1823047#Post1823047
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1805084#Post1805084
...but of course you must have seen them, since I saw your AR-10 listed in between!
Alaskapopo
05-20-10, 23:32
The Badger and H&S Bottom metal are both good options, there are a couple more. If detachable magazine isn't required, then this won't matter for AKPopo.
I'm still a bit curious how much more you're trying to get out of this than the AR10 you currently have, accuracy wise.
I have decided to keep the AR 10 but what frustrates me is the inconsistency. For example my cold bore shot has been as much as 2.5 inches from my point of aim. Its almost always low between 1.5 and 2 inches. Maybe its because I clean it after I shoot it. I am going to try to leave the gun dirty longer and see if I keep more consistent accuracy. I am sure some of it maybe me. But sometimes I can get .65 inch groups and the next will be 1.5. The average is not too bad around 1.25. I really want better. I can shoot rings around my GAP (average .64 with the load it likes) with my Larue Stealth but its only a .223
Pat
Gutshot John
05-21-10, 06:22
Maybe its because I clean it after I shoot it. I am going to try to leave the gun dirty longer and see if I keep more consistent accuracy.
That might explain it. I know that many precision shooters will fire a round after cleaning and then put it away.
In Scheels AllSports today, Rem 700 SPS for $569.00, your choice of .223 or .308.
Rings and bases, LT-123 or 719 rings, $195.00. LT-113 rail, $75.00
A great start for $839.00 + some tax and shipping.
Littlelebowski
05-21-10, 18:26
In Scheels AllSports today, Rem 700 SPS for $569.00, your choice of .223 or .308.
Rings and bases, LT-123 or 719 rings, $195.00. LT-113 rail, $75.00
A great start for $839.00 + some tax and shipping.
</thread>
Alaskapopo
05-21-10, 21:13
This. It will shoot sub MOA out of the box.
Thanks. I will have to save up for one. I decided to keep my GAP but I still want a really accurate bolt eventually.
pat
This in a high-end stock would be good for some people's needs and it is already threaded.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical-aac-sd.aspx
I think that's a great job of meeting the market halfway; thanks for the heads-up on that model. The 1:10 twist is an eye-opener.
You can always drop it into an AICS or McMillan stock.
buy the cheapest rem 700 action and have it sent to a quality smith. This guy does some real nice work ( www.louisianaprecisionrifles.com ), and a .25 moa guarantee to boot. when i was looking into having work done on my Rem 700 i called Mike at TacOps but since he doesnt offer the tune-ups anymore he refered me to Mr. Roscoe of LA precision.
I know someone who tested 900 precision rifles for a major LE agency, and he said only about 5 of them were true 0.5 MOA rifles. 0.25 MOA is preposterous. The rifle would have to cost $30,000 as the scrap rate would be enormous (maybe 1% of production would pass).
If someone offered a 0.25 MOA guarantee they have to rely on either no one invoking the guarantee or having the 'test' be something like "I will fire many 3 shot groups (if you can call 3 shots a group), and eventually I will get one which is 0.25 MOA, and if so, the rifle passes."
Not that I doubt that some tactical rifles can indeed shoot .25moa, but to get a rifle that shoots these groups sizes (5 shots per group) a person would need to be able to read the wind, much like benchrest shooting. I think that the only rifle right now that I would trust to shoot groups this small would either be a custom benchrest or HS Precision's new BR rifle. Also how many shoots would a person get in real life, I think the major part of a tactical rifle would be the 1st cold shoot.
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7281
Cool. I will read that thread later today.
5 shot groups are not a very significant indicator of the precision of a rifle. 10 shots is a minimum and ONLY WHEN using mean radius or radial standard deviation. If you use the more common extreme spread method, then more like 25 shots are needed to compare rifles.
I don't want to get into the TacOps accuracy discussion or to hijack this thread, so I will just say that from my own personal experience on several of the TacOps rifles, I will attest that they do exactly what Mike and TacOps claims them to do. Finest LE tactical rifle on the market IMO and I have driven many of the top makers rifles. Definitely not 900 rifles or anywhere close, but a lot.
I will also say that everywhere the rifle goes there are 2 types of people that have heard of these rifles. One group is excited and eager to check them out, the other is the "haters" who have formulated an opinion but have never fired one. A quick shooting session and letting them try it out and they are instant converts. This was the case at one of the largest and most respected sniper schools in the country, where the lead instructor (really great guy btw) fit into the "hater" category. After about day 2 or 3 having watched my partner and I pilot these rifles, he finally asked to shoot the rifle. It was apparent that it wasn't easy for him to ask to shoot it, but he couldn't resist any longer. Let me just say that he could only say something along the lines of, "gawd damn, that is one slick action. I hate to use the term tack driver but this rifle re-defines that statement."
For myself it is the smoothest action and best accuracy tactical rifle, shooting factory match ammo, that I have ever laid my hands on. Oh and read the link above, Mike gave some great insight on their building specs / techniques. I will leave it at that. Mike likes to rant on the phone a bit much. Sorry Mike, lol. Keep doin what you do best my friend. ;)
Just to keep this one on track, if I can get a good .5MOA rifle for under 2K, is that extra money worth it for a .25 MOA rifle? Well that is up to the shooter and his / her pocketbook / needs. IMO, it isn't necessary but it sure as hell is a nice thing and .25 MOA accuracy isn't quite everything. A .5MOA rifle will serve you well no doubt, but I will say with a slicker than snot action, speed of accurate follow ups are much improved also.
As always, YMMV.
With highly skilled technicians using very expensive and precise equipment, "squareness" and "parallelism" of our bolts and
receiver lugs can be, and are, held to tolerances within 50 millionths of an inch.
It is very unlikely that is true. What they are saying is that, if you take 10 of their parts and measure them all, there will be no more than 0.00005 variation. That is hard to measure even with a good micrometer. Even just walking near the parts would heat them up and introduce millions of an inch of variation.
How closely is the bore centered before chambering? ... Krieger checked ours, and reported that we were only 2 millionths misaligned.
Well, I cannot say Krieger did not 'report' this, but I don't believe that is is actually true. That would be 0.000002.
3rdly, they are just reporting 3 shot groups which is not statistically meaningful, and they don't even say they are limited to one try which makes it even less meaningful. They can keep on shooting 3 shot groups until one of them happens to be 0.25 or less MOA.
The industry should standardize on 30 shot mean radius at 100 yards.
I will also say that everywhere the rifle goes there are 2 types of people that have heard of these rifles. One group is excited and eager to check them out, the other is the "haters" who have formulated an opinion but have never fired one.
I am not saying their rifle is not the most accurate rifle for under $10,000. It may be. I also don't doubt that if you keep on firing 3 shot groups from one of their rifles, that some portion of the time some of those will be 0.25 or less. I totally believe it would be, as it would be from many nice rifles.
I am just saying, when they start out by saying things that are exceedingly unlikely to be true (like 2 millionths of runout), I already lost interest in learning more.
Just post any 30 round group from their rifle at 100 yards. Why 30 rounds? Because there is not really a 'best' or 'worst' group when you shoot a statistically significant sample like there is with 3 shot groups.
rsilvers, I understand what you are saying and can respect that. I will also contribute the following....
As we know there are many variables such as mother nature, ammo variance, the shooter etc, that play a role in the equation, so IMO taking these variables into account is necessary. Is it the weapon, or is it some of these outside variables? Most likely the latter, which is often enough the case. Sure lesser groups may more easily maintain a smaller MOA, but more rounds in a group also leads to more chance for outside variables playing a role, which may not be attributable to the rifle itself. Sure we can take mean variances etc over many large groups into account, but IMO more outside factors will more consistently play a role than a role played by a finely built rifle. On the other hand, I cannot just see one, or two, three shot groups in that .25 MOA range and call it a .25 MOA rifle, but I definitely need to see that type of repeatability, enough so to take it beyond luck.
For myself, I do not use 3 shot groups. I like to use 5 shot groups. I like to use a minimum of 10 groups of 5 rounds or 50 rounds total before I begin to suggest claims of accuracy from a weapon. Again, I am not saying that all groups fall into this exact MOA range as a good shooter can easily call a shot the moment the trigger breaks and that is definitely an outside variable (the shooter).
Outside of the above testing, I don't go measuring all of my groups that I ever shoot, but if I am doing my job and everything is working well, .25MOA 5 shot groups, which are consistent with my called shots, are not uncommon. They are repeatable enough that I cannot just say that it was a lucky alignment of the planets, but true quantifiable results. Over the several thousands of rounds through these rifles, I am convinced enough to back the claim of this being a true .25MOA rifle. Again these are my own personal experiences and results. Not completely scientific, but not exactly lacking in qualified experience. Or at least I like to think so. :)
I cannot attest to any build techniques or number claims that Mike gives out, but I will say without a doubt, this is the finest rifle I have ever fired within its class hands down and he is definitely doing something repeatable that puts his rifles squarely in that top spot.
Again YMMV.
I should also add that accuracy claims, or standards set in the industry for testing that give us the ability to make these claims is secondary. We can pick whatever standard we chose and follow it to a "T", but IMO that will not change results of how these rifles will perform head to head. First and foremost, head to head on a level playing field, all things being as equal as possible, I am convinced of where the TacOps rifles would fall. :)
It is true that with extreme spread, one bad shot - either human or environmentally induced, ruins the group. That is not the case with mean radius or radial standard deviation. In fact, the more shots the more accurately the precision is measured because the signal (true rifle performance) to noise (outside influences) ratio only improves with more shots and the random outliers become less significant.
Again, not saying it is not a great rifle. My main point was that 3 shot groups, especially when you can fire an unlimited number of them and only pick the best one, are worthless. Problem is, so many gun makers use that metric that a company is at a disadvantage if they don't offer the same deal.
What we need is a company which tests every rifle with a meaningful test and sells the better ones for more as a graded product. This is how diamonds are sold. The test needs to be 30 rounds as that is when you start to get statistically-significant results.
The problem with extreme spread is that every round, has the same results on the score, even if the deviation from center is not typical. While mean radius solves that, the problem with mean radius is that no one has a feel for what it means to get a certain score but everyone understands extreme spread.
The solution is 4RSD (TM).
I am trademarking it and defining it to mean taking the radial standard deviation and multiplying the result by 4. Why 4? It is 2 times 2. 2 for a standard deviation means (for a normal distribution) that 95.4% of the results fall within that value but always at least 75%.
So 4RSD will show the MOA of the diameter of a circle for which at least 75% but typically 95.4% of the centers of the shots (19 out of 20 shots) will fall within. Because it is a diameter, it will be easy to understand - as it will look much like extreme spread.
In this dream metric that I wish everyone would adopt, 30 or more rounds must be used and all shots must be fired within 60 minutes. The distance must be quoted, and the ammo must be named.
I would like to see each individual premium rifle made tested this way, and then priced based on the score - just like how diamonds are sold. For production rifles, it would really only be meaningful to put at least 10 but ideally 30 or so rifles through this test and then average the scores - but that would never happen outside of a major military buy.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Standard_deviation_diagram.svg
The problem with extreme spread is that every round, has the same results on the score, even if the deviation from center is not typical. While mean radius solves that, the problem with mean radius is that no one has a feel for what it means to get a certain score but everyone understands extreme spread.
The solution is 4RSD (TM).
I am trademarking it and defining it to mean taking the radial standard deviation and multiplying the result by 4. Why 4? It is 2 times 2. 2 for a standard deviation means (for a normal distribution) that 95.4% of the results fall within that value but always at least 75%.
So 4RSD will show the MOA of the diameter of a circle for which at least 75% but typically 95.4% of the centers of the shots (19 out of 20 shots) will fall within. Because it is a diameter, it will be easy to understand - as it will look much like extreme spread.
In this dream metric that I wish everyone would adopt, 30 or more rounds must be used and all shots must be fired within 60 minutes. The distance must be quoted, and the ammo must be named.
I would like to see each individual premium rifle made tested this way, and then priced based on the score - just like how diamonds are sold. For production rifles, it would really only be meaningful to put at least 10 but ideally 30 or so rifles through this test and then average the scores - but that would never happen outside of a major military buy.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Standard_deviation_diagram.svg
I assume this would be difficult to achieve for a custom builder where each gun is made to order and there is no standing inventory. Sorry to op for hi-jack.
Yeah - almost no one would opt to test each rifle. I think though after people got used to it, there could be a 1.5 MOA 4RSD guarantee or something. Maybe some makers could offer a 1 MOA 4RSD guarantee. If someone has an awesome rifle (one they consider a sub 1/2 MOA rifle), shoot 30 rounds and scan the target at 100 dpi and post it and I will score it for 4RSD. Then we can get a feel for what a good 4RSD score is.
My M24 shoots 10 shots into 1/2 MOA and I am satisfied with that - so I will do the test and see what it can do on 4RSD. I can then round up to come up with a good 4RSD guarantee for a high-end rifle. For example, if it got 1.3 on 4RSD, I would like to see high-end rifles come with a 1.5 MOA 4RSD guarantee.
It would be useful to the consumer if gun magazines would test with 4RSD.
The PSR requirement is 50 10 round groups from 300 to 1500 meters, 80% of which must be 1 MOA vertical spread or less. A 4RSD test should give about the same results.
I am very impressed with the PSR accuracy testing requirement. Any rifle which does well in that test is a known-good rifle.
Littlelebowski
05-24-10, 06:49
I have decided to keep the AR 10 but what frustrates me is the inconsistency. For example my cold bore shot has been as much as 2.5 inches from my point of aim. Its almost always low between 1.5 and 2 inches. Maybe its because I clean it after I shoot it. I am going to try to leave the gun dirty longer and see if I keep more consistent accuracy. I am sure some of it maybe me.
What is your cleaning regimen? You need to set up a solid routine and stick with it or really extend the interval between cleanings.
I would recommend finding a routine and sticking with it. Recommend 2 patches of carbon solvent, 2 of copper solvent, and that's it! Let them soak but that's it. You might also find that there's a inconsistency between the first round and the rounds after it due to how the round is loaded (charging handle versus gas operation).
My brother (who teaches this stuff) helped validate the SR25 for the Marine Corps in combat. He found that after a good cleaning he'd have to run a patch with CLP down the bore to get the first shot close to his combat zero (fouled).
Nothing over two standard deviations will ever be adopted by a company selling the rifle, not that any more than 2% of their customers actually understand what N-StdDev away even means, and how that would pertain to real work groupings. 2σ for a radius would work quite well for practical terms, but to do adequate p value analysis, the number of rounds for one load would necessarily be about 50 rounds - might as well just chunk 50 rounds, toss out the 5 farthest, and call that a final grouping.
Something that has 'some mythical mathematical process' that outputs a number that is bigger than currently used won't find a home in an industry where manufacturers necessarily overbill the mechanical accuracy capability of a rifle so they can get sold to poor shooters with cases of Wolf ammunition they want to run through their weapons.
I agree that makers will not adopt a standard that has larger MOA values than 3 shot groups are currently producing. This is obvious because even individual rifle owners almost never post their 10 shot groups because they know they will look bad compared to the selective 3-shot groups others post.
How about this as a more realistic proposal as far as acceptance goes (people who are in denial of their rifle's true performance) of going just one sd out? RSD*2 (which would be a diameter standard deviation). 30 or maybe as you said 50 shots could predict where 68% of the shots from the rifle would fall within. The numbers should be under 1 MOA for good rifles so it may make people more comfortable using it. The beauty of it is that people who want to know their true performance can just triple the value to know where 99.7% of their shots will go.
Just like there is now an SAE certified HP standard and it requires an observer, there needs to be an accuracy certification.
might as well just chunk 50 rounds, toss out the 5 farthest, and call that a final grouping.
That works for larger numbers of shots but 10 shots with RSD is just as good as 25 shots of extreme spread.
This guy feels that a "1 MOA rifle" is a rifle that puts all shots within 1 MOA 68% of the time. Interesting take on it. I think it makes more sense to go out to 2 or 3 standard deviations.
http://www.the-long-family.com/group_size_analysis.htm
He basically found that by averaging lots of 4 shot groups you can get an idea for the diameter as one standard deviation.
I think the industry could accept reporting group size as one standard deviation of diameter of 30 or so shots as the value would look very much like the extreme spread of a typical 4 shot group.
The problem is, gun makers (and shooters) will just fire lots of 3 shot groups and quote the BEST one rather than the aggregate of them all. Really even a crappy rifle will shoot a 0.25 MOA 3 shot group once in a while.
The remaning problems are that each individual rifle is different, and each brand/batch of ammo is different.
http://fuzzylimey.net/coachtalk/skillanal.html
One final idea - call it RSD2 rather than DSD. That would still look like an expected diameter value but would really show the radial distribution for the second standard deviation (95% of the shots). That satisfies the people who don't understand the number and they just see what looks like a typical extreme spread value but also satisfies those who know it to be a radius for 95% of the universe of shots rather than a diameter.
I think most of us are poor shots (poor consistency) so three is "better" than multiple sets of five shot groups or ten shot groups.
I agree with the analysis, by the way.
For me one minute of angle for 10,000 rounds would satisfy any practical application and I'll NEVER shoot 10,000 rounds - see, I told you most of us are "poor shots". One cannot but be unless he shoots. :(
These last several posts on accuracy measurement have been compelling. Thanks for posting, guys.
http://home.wanadoo.nl/jhogema/skeetn/ballist/precision/Measuring_precision.htm
This seems to show that 40 shots of RSD or MR is as good as shooting 100 shots of extreme spread.
But, if you are going to do extreme spread, then divide your total number of rounds into multiple groups to average.
From Figure 3, the following can be seen.
· For less than 10 shots, 1 group is the best.
· For 10 shots or more, 2 groups is better than 1 (i.e., 2 groups of 5 is the turning point).
· For 18 shots or more, 3 groups are better than 2 (i.e., 3 groups of 6 is the turning point).
· For 24 shots or more, 4 groups is better than 3 (i.e., 4 groups of 6 is the turning point).
Further pieces of the puzzle:
· 3 groups of 4 shots are better than 1 group of 12.
· 4 groups of 4 shots are better that 1 group of 16.
· 5 groups of 4 shots are better than 1 group of 20.
· 3 groups of 6 is better than 2 groups of 9.
· 4 groups of 6 are better than 3 groups of 8.
· 4 groups of 5 are better than 5 groups of 4 and better than 2 groups of 10 .
· 5 groups of 6 are better than 3 groups of 10.
NMBigfoot02
05-26-10, 20:32
Remmy 700, glass, bipod, practice.
I second this. If you're going to spend money, spend it on the glass. It may cost twice as much as an acceptable bolt gun.
Alaskapopo
05-26-10, 21:34
I second this. If you're going to spend money, spend it on the glass. It may cost twice as much as an acceptable bolt gun.
I have a nice Tasco I was going to put on it. :D
Just kidding. If I get a bolt I will move my Nightforce 5.5-22 from my GAP Ar10 over to it.
By the way you guys totally lost me on the DSD and RSD and what not. I have no clue can you inform me or will it make my head hurt.
Pat
Remmy 700, glass, bipod, practice.
Have you considered an 700 SPS as giving you everything you need now but can still upgrade the stock, bipod and mount?
It's a lot of rifle in a cheap package.
This. It will shoot sub MOA out of the box.
Just to echo what has been mentioned above.....
I have a box stock Rem 700 SPS tactical, mounted a harris bipod, dropped on a Swarovski Habicht fixed 10X and it will shoot right around .75 MOA all day long with Federal 168gr GMM ammo. My partner has one also. He swapped on a McMillian stock and bedded it. It will shoot .5 MOA and I have measured some groups in the low .4's.
This is really all you need, plus quality ammo and quality trigger time.
Everything you need to know.....^^^^^^
I remember outshooting a couple of guys with their issued 4K+ big name custom sniper rifles, with my $175.00 Remington 788.
You can also check out the sniper central rifles at snipercentral.com they build them using a howa action and heavy barrel and I believe a medalist stock and the price is around 1,000.
http://www.snipercentral.com/entrypackage.htm
this is the link to the Howa.
http://www.snipercentral.com/rementrypack.phtml
this is the link for the Remington they build.
My SPR has been nothing but outstanding.
My SPR has been nothing but outstanding.
What kind of groups are you obtaining? Did you have the action bedded or is it one of the A3G models?
Thanks in advance.
I would go with a Remington 5R. Great accuracy and performance at a great price.
I am intrigued by these and I'm doing more research. You should consider these as Borden is doing a tube gun action for about $800. I like the light weight but the RTM is nice also. Very serious precision rifles. I'm thinking you might go over $2K depending on the trigger and tube gun selected. The Borden action is ready for a quality barrel and then drop it into the tube gun.
Light Weight (http://www.competitionshootingstuff.com/id30.html)
RTM (http://www.competitionshootingstuff.com/id12.html)
I have an SPR A1 that has been bedded, has a 2# trigger and CDI bottom metal with one magazine. IIRC about 1200 rounds fired. I'm not a good group shooter but I shivered in the rain and put eight rounds of Remington 168gr match under an inch. $2200 shipped to Alaska.
Not really interested in it anymore as I have a lot of other rifles to shoot and I'm going to go hunting in Africa this year so I need cash.
Army Chief
06-06-10, 18:41
Talk about an enlightening thread! I'm only beginning to realize just how shallow my precision shooting knowledge base truly is.
On this note, however ...
It would be useful to the consumer if gun magazines would test with 4RSD.
... it would actually be useful to the consumer if gun magazines would test to ANY definable standard, other than the infusion of advertiser revenue. :rolleyes: A credible discussion among professionals on a forum such as this one is a far better source of data than anything we're likely to see out of a contemporary periodical.
<resume student mode>
AC
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.