CMMG barrels: What is the deal? [Archive]

RP88

05-15-10, 18:01

jbsmwd

05-15-10, 20:50

I could be wrong since my search-Fu is umm......weak.....but this what they have posted on their website for uppers

CMMG M4 Profile Uppers have the following standard features.

Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel M4 contour barrel
5.56x45 NATO chamber
1/7 twist
Hard chrome lined chamber and bore
M4 feed ramps
11 degree recessed target crown
F marked forged front sight base
Parkerized Barrel including under the front sight base
A2 Flash hider installed with Peel washer
Forged A3 upper receivers are T marked and have extended feed ramp cuts (M4 ramps).
Semi Auto bolt carrier
Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested. Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7. Each Upper is head spaced and test fired before shipping. Upper specific features are listed with the individual item. When selecting the gas piston operating system, it will override your choices for the bolt carrier and front sight/gas block.

and the barrels

CMMG M4 barrels have the following standard features.

Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel
5.56x45 NATO chamber
1/7 twist
Hard chrome lined chamber and bore
M4 feed ramps/Barrel Extension
11 degree recessed target crown
1/2x28 Threaded Muzzle
Parkerized Barrel, including under the front sight base
F marked front sight base for flat top receivers
Round M4 Handguard cap
M4 contour for attaching 40mm M203 and 37mm Less Lethal launchers

Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested.
Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1/7.
Barrel specific features are listed with the individual item.

of course i am assuming that you have the M4 profile barrel. oh and here is the link to there website
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=66

RP88

05-15-10, 20:56

All of their standard uppers have their barrel steel advertised as you listed, along with all the other features. No real difference until you look at their other sections that have nitriding, WASP coating, etc.

However, the M4 chart no longer credits CMMG as using a correct or better grade of steel. It used to a couple years back, but does not now.

I was wondering what led to the change...

pcardinal42

05-16-10, 03:28

Hey all,

I've been reading up a lot and have found that it has been discovered that, apparently, CMMG does not use proper "milspec"/MIl-B grade steel.

I searched this forum, Arfcom, and google and could not find any conclusive evidence if this was true or not.

Does anyone have a link or info to irrefutable evidence to this? If they are not using what they have been advertising, then what exactly do they use?

I own a middie that was built from mostly CMMG parts (including the upper group), and, despite having no problems even when putting it through light abuse in the middle of the country, I'd like to know exactly what my AR is actually made of.

Thanks.

I have one of their mid length uppers currently, I have only put around 450 rounds through it with no problems. If you aren't having a problem with anything I wouldn't worry too much about mil-spec. But then again thats my own opinion. I'm military and mil-spec usually means lowest bidder. For example I am avionics on the B1-B our FCGMS (Fuel Center of Gravity Management System) computer is made by BF Goodwrench. What the H*ll is a car parts manufacture doing making Fuel computers for a multi million dollar air craft?

crazymoose

05-16-10, 04:39

I think the deal with CMMG is that no one really knows what the deal is with CMMG. Lots of reports of long wait times, bad customer service, etc. Some accusations that materials used are not what have been advertised. That said, I've used a few CMMG barrels in builds and have been happy with the quality. Not happy with the fact that they seem to no longer produce a chrome-lined 1:8 twist barrel. They were about the only outfit in town making a barrel of that type.

Iraqgunz

05-16-10, 04:57

This has been discussed numerous times here before. Milspec does not mean lowest bidder. And every company that produces anything Milspec must meet the minimum requirements as set forth by the gov't. So if a company can't meet that standard what does that say? There are of course those that exceed the standard as well.

Why is a stretch for a car parts manufacturer to make something for an aircraft? There are plenty of companies out there that have diversified manufacturing capabilities. Think back to WWII when companies supported the war effort by manufacturing weapons and other equipment outside of their normal purview for the gov't.

I have one of their mid length uppers currently, I have only put around 450 rounds through it with no problems. If you aren't having a problem with anything I wouldn't worry too much about mil-spec. But then again thats my own opinion. I'm military and mil-spec usually means lowest bidder. For example I am avionics on the B1-B our FCGMS (Fuel Center of Gravity Management System) computer is made by BF Goodwrench. What the H*ll is a car parts manufacture doing making Fuel computers for a multi million dollar air craft?

davey

05-16-10, 06:05

Hey all,

I've been reading up a lot and have found that it has been discovered that, apparently, CMMG does not use proper "milspec"/MIl-B grade steel.

Here's my take on the whole question - Don't sweat it. It ain't worth it.

I'm Dave and I'm an engineer. (Hi, Dave!) I think I remember this correctly. Generally, the M4, M16, etc. are spec'd to use 4150 ordnance steel. It's a good choice to stand up to overheating and full-auto shooting. Many recreational barrels are made from 4140 steel because its a bit easier to machine. That means that machine tools last longer and barrels cost less. I don't know what CMMG's barrels are made from, and I'd be surprised if their supplier hadn't had to change alloys from lot to lot if materials are in short supply.

Performance-wise, I don't think you can create conditions where a barrel made from 4150 would function OK, but one made from 4140 would fail. I don't think a recreational shooter will notice the difference. A scientific sampling of say 2 million barrels (GI quantities) might turn up statistically significant differences, though.

This is one situation where I think "The List" gets overly anal. Chrome-plated chrome-moly steel gets a check mark, but something like stainless would be "incorrect"? Get outa here. Just don't go to bed worried that your barrel is made from Play-Doh.

jh9

05-16-10, 07:12

Are any manufacturers audited by a 3rd party to verify any of their claims?

The only way to know that my CMMG and BCM barrels are 4150 is, well, that the respective companies say they are. That or sending one of their barrels off for alloy analysis. If I did that, though, and posted the results who's to say my claims are any more genuine than the manufacturer's? The lack of a trusted 3rd party to independently verify means you either trust what the manufacturer says or find another manufacturer, I guess. (Or you spend a boatload to constantly verify their claims.)

This is one situation where I think "The List" gets overly anal. Chrome-plated chrome-moly steel gets a check mark, but something like stainless would be "incorrect"?

Rather, people misusing The Chart(tm) for something other than its only useful purpose get overly anal. It would be incorrect...for an m4. If you're not trying to reproduce an m4, you shouldn't really care.

I agree, however, that some folks get wrapped around the handle about a part that's going to be replaced anyway. If you do a lot of shooting. And if you don't, it won't matter.

120mm

05-16-10, 11:46

Skyyr

05-16-10, 12:48

What the H*ll is a car parts manufacture doing making Fuel computers for a multi million dollar air craft?

As a Certified Flight Instructor, Advanced Aviation Ground Instructor, Commercial Pilot, and an aviation professional... I say you need to stop posting.

And don't fly another plane or drive another car if the thought of cross-industry production scares you. The same companies that make automobile tires also produce aircraft tires, tank treads, and similar products across various industries and theatres. Those $150 GPS systems that you purchase for your daily commute to work? The same companies make the systems that fly multi-million dollar commercial aircraft on autopilot.

And lol @ "BF Goodwrench."

pcardinal42

05-16-10, 13:12

justin_247

05-16-10, 13:37

I have one of their mid length uppers currently, I have only put around 450 rounds through it with no problems. If you aren't having a problem with anything I wouldn't worry too much about mil-spec. But then again thats my own opinion. I'm military and mil-spec usually means lowest bidder. For example I am avionics on the B1-B our FCGMS (Fuel Center of Gravity Management System) computer is made by BF Goodwrench. What the H*ll is a car parts manufacture doing making Fuel computers for a multi million dollar air craft?

Hugo Boss once manufactured uniforms for the SS. General Motors once manufactured M-16s. Mitsubishi manufactures bombs and airplanes for the JSDF. Saab makes submarines and fighter jets. Texas Instruments doesn't just make calculators. And MIT does more than house Noam Chomsky.

Oh, and if you receive a bad part out of supply from Goodrich, be sure to QDR it. Sorry that you have to work B-1s... just think: you could be working C-5As, or AC-130Hs. I recommend HH-60s if you ever get the chance - they're the best aircraft to work on, by far.

justin_247

05-16-10, 13:44

I own a middie that was built from mostly CMMG parts (including the upper group), and, despite having no problems even when putting it through light abuse in the middle of the country, I'd like to know exactly what my AR is actually made of.

Thanks.

What is written on the barrel?

120mm

05-16-10, 14:12

Sorry my opinions don't sit well with others. Guess I'll stop fixing the planes too. This might as well be my last post on the internet. God forbid everyone not agree with what I say. I only brought up that particular part because I know exactly how much it fails and causes me more work. I directly relate it to the manufacturer. Now the name might be off I'll have to take another look at the part. As far as WWII most of the companies that took on government contracts completely stopped production of their civilian products and focused entirely on military ones. Like I said my opinion no need to crucify me for it.

Well then, sport. I suggest you check on that there name thingy and get it right. You know, between us aircraft maintenance professionals and all.

Don't want you to be putting a FCGMS Computer from a Cobalt into that B1, after all.

Car-15 Guy / Bravo 1

05-16-10, 15:17

I ordered a CMMG upper from the Sportsmansguide a month ago and the first time at the range my weapon jammed, the forward assist parts came loose and jammed the bolt, it took almost an hour to break the small parts free to send it back to CMMG direct.

I called Garson @ CMMG and he took care of it ASAP and sent it back to me before my next Coyote Hunt the following week.

I never got a we are sorry for the problem you had with our product but, they did fix it....:p

As for the barrel, it groups nicely I had it out yesterday @ the range and I`m happy with it. No malfunctions / No pieces lodging in the weapon so ...so far so good!

Later
Louie S.
And
Remember
A Firearm Should Be Considered A Fighting Weapon First.
Any Other Use Should Be Considered A Bonus !!

fdxpilot

05-16-10, 15:44

Sorry my opinions don't sit well with others. Guess I'll stop fixing the planes too. This might as well be my last post on the internet. God forbid everyone not agree with what I say. I only brought up that particular part because I know exactly how much it fails and causes me more work. I directly relate it to the manufacturer. Now the name might be off I'll have to take another look at the part. As far as WWII most of the companies that took on government contracts completely stopped production of their civilian products and focused entirely on military ones. Like I said my opinion no need to crucify me for it.

Perhaps you should, because as a former Air Force and current commercial pilot, it doesn't sound like you can tell your A** from a hole in the ground. Lots of BF Goodrich parts on commercial jets. And I guess the Boeing jet I fly must be pre-WW2, since Boeing is the biggest military contracter the Air Force has.

RP88

05-16-10, 15:52

What is written on the barrel?

I honestly don't know; I have a DD Omega rail on it and can't get to it at the moment (still at work). But if memory serves me right, it was something like "MP 1x7 twist", and I think it said 5.56 somewhere. It was marked in the middle where the rail system covers it up.

Is there something in particular it should say? I can get pics up later.

Also, it was not a bargain bin or anything. It was one of their "government profile" uppers. I got it in the later part of 2008.

Another neat point to point out in reference to my "chart" question: the full-auto carrier came properly staked.

boltcatch

05-16-10, 20:07

Performance-wise, I don't think you can create conditions where a barrel made from 4150 would function OK, but one made from 4140 would fail. I don't think a recreational shooter will notice the difference. A scientific sampling of say 2 million barrels (GI quantities) might turn up statistically significant differences, though.

This is one situation where I think "The List" gets overly anal. Chrome-plated chrome-moly steel gets a check mark, but something like stainless would be "incorrect"? Get outa here. Just don't go to bed worried that your barrel is made from Play-Doh.

OK for recreational use is all well and good, but you also need to recall that not everyone here decided to plonk down $1000-$3000 for "recreational use". Quite a few might even be using them on select-fire lowers for work.

Stainless steel is apples to oranges. The chart refers to M4 type rifles.

RP88

05-17-10, 04:02

Well, i am aware of the technical limits of the steel, the question was: what does CMMG use, and who found out (and how/what evidence) that they don't use the 4150 mil-certified steel they advertise.

Truth is, yes: most users - including most military applications - won't notice a difference between 4140, 4150, and 4150 CMV Mil-B cert. steel, assuming it is chromed and properly made. The majority of military firearms (note: refering to other nations' militaries and designs here) out there use 4140 and even 4130 steel in most major components; AK-47s are known as being unbreakable beasts, despite being made out of mostly "lower grade" material.

And milspec is nowhere near lowest bidder standards. In fact, it is quite the opposite: it is the "you must do all of these things this exact way; this is the absolute least we will expect this rifle to be made of" standard. And the scary thing is, comparing old firearms and even the original M16 TDPs, and even to the most modern designs' TDPs that have been fielded as potential replacements, the M4 is quite overbuilt, from what it seems.

5shot

06-04-10, 16:26

My lightweight barrel is super accurate, and has never given me a single problem. I have put about 1000 rounds through it, and I expect it will get above 10K before I think of replacing it.

Since there are some here who really get to shoot (I guess those guys have deep pockets or get ammo from the department - I can't afford to shoot the number of rounds I would like to)....

Who has a bunch of rounds (say ~10K or more) through a CMMG barrel and what is your conclusion?

TehLlama

06-04-10, 20:14

Chambers are a bit tight, which is why lacquered cases probably cause problems with them a lot.

I get 1.5MOA groups with cheap surplus out of my M18 barrel, and I'm under MOA with improvised prone supported with all three of mine, my wife's lightweight being about 1.2MOA for 5 shot groups and PPU 75gr.

I think they're fantastic Tier2 rifles - great for recreational shooting, and if you shoot it enough with the ammo you intend to use, and give it some solid PMing and do minor improvements (BCM Bolt Enhancement Kit, PMags, H/H2 buffer) and they're very good candidates for HD/SHTF rifles.

polymorpheous

06-05-10, 00:38

correct me if i'm wrong...

but i've read from a certain company that they won't touch them because the bores are sometimes not concentric.

TehLlama

06-05-10, 07:42

I have heard this as well, and decided to put that to the test - sending them my M18 upper to get turned down, and have OPS hardware installed...

For anybody running a suppressor, a consideration, but even in my case the CMMG was the nicest option in my price range at the time, and as I told Adco, I don't mind if the barrel bore is like rotini pasta, the thing does shoot plenty well for me.

5shot

06-05-10, 11:53

Mine is a pencil barrel, which would make the off center bore quite evident, but mine looks to be dead center. I bought 2 more to make rifles for my girls as well.

RP88

09-05-10, 21:28

sorry to necro my own thrad, but I still haven't heard anything.

My bore is fine. No issues, and is pretty much dead-center to the finest point.

I never heard of the bore of chamber issues. the only issue I've heard of is with their bolts and extractors, since they aren't milspec quality. And those were usually replaced at ease.

Is it true that they seriously won't touch it for supressor work? That's...definitely odd. Also, still no source on if CMMG is lying about their barrels.

The Solid

09-05-10, 22:30

There is a Company that supposedly stopped because of non-concentric bores on some barrels. It could be true or it could be he just didn't like CMMG, as no other armorer/machinist has come forward with the same conclusion. He was quick to also state though that many many barrels from many many makers are also non-concentric, and is not an issue exclusive to CMMG.

SuppressingFire

09-06-10, 18:43

This has been discussed numerous times here before. Milspec does not mean lowest bidder. And every company that produces anything Milspec must meet the minimum requirements as set forth by the gov't. So if a company can't meet that standard what does that say? There are of course those that exceed the standard as well.

Why is a stretch for a car parts manufacturer to make something for an aircraft? There are plenty of companies out there that have diversified manufacturing capabilities. Think back to WWII when companies supported the war effort by manufacturing weapons and other equipment outside of their normal purview for the gov't.

....are you saying the gov't is going to spend more money on an identical item they can get for less? I think the gov't goes with the lowest bidder in pretty much every instance. The product they are acquiring is going to meet certain standards no matter who makes it.....knowing this, why would they pay more?

az doug

09-06-10, 22:17

I cannot answer the OP's question as to the material CMMG barrels are made out of, but I do own two CMMG barrels. One is a 5.56 16" middie "pencil barrel" and the other a 16" 6.8. I have not had any problems with either and my 5.56 did spend time on a select fire duty gun. It did not see heavy use though.

Iraqgunz

09-07-10, 01:10

I think my post was pretty clear. Lowest bidder doesn't mean shit quality because they have to meet the standard that was put out.

....are you saying the gov't is going to spend more money on an identical item they can get for less? I think the gov't goes with the lowest bidder in pretty much every instance. The product they are acquiring is going to meet certain standards no matter who makes it.....knowing this, why would they pay more?

RP88

03-08-11, 00:47

I know this is four months old...but according to google I'm the last person to specifically bring this question up.

Does anyone know what the deal is with CMMG yet?

The only thing I've learned so far is that "4150 CMV" does not technically exist as per the TDP according to the steel industry. This means that either 4150 CMV is just a misnomer that vaguely and/or poorly describes what the steel actually is (assuming they aren't lying), or is basically a made-up name for a made-up formula of 4150 steel with carbon and Vanadium added for some sort of custom order that is very similar to but not the exact formula used in 'milspec' barrels.

However, this came from Arfcom, so...yeah. I was hoping someone would have maybe staked outside of CMMG's office with sonic equipment and listened in for the devil in the details....

justin_247

03-08-11, 02:38

The only thing I've learned so far is that "4150 CMV" does not technically exist as per the TDP according to the steel industry. This means that either 4150 CMV is just a misnomer that vaguely and/or poorly describes what the steel actually is (assuming they aren't lying), or is basically a made-up name for a made-up formula of 4150 steel with carbon and Vanadium added for some sort of custom order that is very similar to but not the exact formula used in 'milspec' barrels.

However, this came from Arfcom, so...yeah. I was hoping someone would have maybe staked outside of CMMG's office with sonic equipment and listened in for the devil in the details....

I suggest you look up MIL-B-11595E. It addresses all of these questions.

DrScooter

03-08-11, 05:14

Last year I purchased a CMMG upper noted to have "Chrome" barrel and chamber from a (to be un-named shop).After the upper arrived I noted it had the WASP finish and as I recall a different "twist" then noted in the ad. The company was none to pleased (with me) when I complained, explaining it was better, then the chrome and no one else had complained. I'm no expert, however, I was a bit upset that I was sold something different then what I expected and what I paid for. I don't remember all the details, one reason I won't name the seller but I finally complained to "Paypal" which really pissed them off. However, I then got an immediate refund and an "authorized return number" :agree: . After that I purchased a BCM upper and have been very happy. Maybe the WASP finish IS great, or perhaps it was just an honest mistake, still it felt a bit like bait and switch.

rob_s

03-08-11, 05:33

Dave L.

03-08-11, 06:06

CMMG does not use true 5.56 chambers. I bought one of their "mil-spec" barrels in the 7.5" length and cases were getting stuck in the chamber. I sent the barrel to Ned Christiansen and before he reamed it out, he noted it was not 5.56.
The 7.5" build was for a novelty range gun. I would never buy anything from CMMG meant for serious use or even bet my life on their shit.

SomeOtherGuy

03-08-11, 11:01

CMMG does not use true 5.56 chambers. I bought one of their "mil-spec" barrels in the 7.5" length and cases were getting stuck in the chamber. I sent the barrel to Ned Christiansen and before he reamed it out, he noted it was not 5.56.

That's really interesting, here's why: I bought a CMMG 20" 1:7 govt profile upper from AIM Surplus about two years ago. At the time I thought it was wonderful, more recently I did more reading.

Anyway, I have several uppers/barrels from "tier 2" type makers, so I decided to buy Ned Christiansen's 5.56 chamber tester gauge to see how many of them actually had 5.56 NATO chamber dimensions:

http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php

I was very pleasantly surprised to find that my CMMG upper has 5.56 NATO dimensions, at least within what that gauge can test. The gauge dropped in easily, dropped out with no resistance. In fact the only looser chamber I found was on recent production Daniel Defense hammer-forged barrels, where the gauge practically rattles.

Conclusion: at least some CMMG barrels have proper 5.56 NATO dimensions in the leade (which is what that gauge measures). My 20" CMMG upper has been completely reliable. The upper receiver itself also seems to be machined slightly off so that it will only mate with some lowers (others can't be fully closed without excessive force), so I'm not going to say it's magically some tier 1 - in fact that's a pretty bad thing to screw up - but at least some of their barrels have the proper chamber dimensions.

RP88

03-08-11, 12:28

and here we have the problem with the Chart.

The issue of barrel steel, along with links to the appropriate documents, are in the Explanation of Features. But since everyone turns to the back page to see whodunnit they miss that information. While this doesn't directly answer the question about what CMMG uses or doesn't use the information is there for anyone who wants to ask them directly.

6, 8, 10 months later and nobody has thought to read the document and ask the pertinent questions?

There are three steels approved for the M4
ORD 4150, ORD 4150 Resulfurized, Chome-Moly-Vanadium

See the below link to learn more about the chemical composition of each.
http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL+SPECS+(MIL-B)/download.php?spec=MIL-B-11595E.014406.PDF

The problem is that they show no interest in responding, and this is apparently how they handled it the first time they were asked collectively by Arfcom after CMMG themselves posted in a thread on it. I've tried so a couple times and either got nothing back, or they just assure me that they do. They do not conjure up an actual formula name or tell me who makes their barrels, although I've heard LAR manufacturing might be who. Then, there are the rumors that they use DPMS parts instead.

They are avoiding the question. I'm about to just ask LAR and see if they actually make or supply CMMG with barrels, and then ask them about the steel...

And yes, I do know that the actual formula specs available. I even asked for the formula (and even just how much Vanadium they use) they use for comparison. Now, if I got an answer back, I could stop worrying about it.

The only thing I have strong belief in now is that they probably do not use an actual mil-cert formula, but add the proper amount of Vanadium in theirs, meaning that it is possible that the barrel COULD meet military specifications...maybe.

Hopefully you have uncovered something about it, Rob, and it'll all be cleared once your work is finished. Thank you and good luck.

rob_s

03-08-11, 12:31

The problem is that they show no interest in responding, and this is apparently how they handled it the first time they were asked collectively by Arfcom after CMMG themselves posted in a thread on it. I've tried so a couple times and either got nothing back, or they just assure me that they do. They do not conjure up an actual formula name or tell me who makes their barrels, although I've heard LAR manufacturing might be who. Then, there are the rumors that they use DPMS parts instead.

They are avoiding the question. I'm about to just ask LAR and see if they actually make or supply CMMG with barrels, and then ask them about the steel...

And yes, I do know that the actual formula specs available. I even asked for the formula (and even just how much Vanadium they use) they use for comparison. Now, if I got an answer back, I could stop worrying about it.

The only thing I have strong belief in now is that they probably do not use an actual mil-cert formula, but add the proper amount of Vanadium in theirs, meaning that it is possible that the barrel COULD meet military specifications...maybe.

Hopefully you have uncovered something about it, Rob, and it'll all be cleared once your work is finished. Thank you and good luck.

Thanks for clarifying.

We shall see how this unfolds.

QuietShootr

03-08-11, 12:43

CMMG does not use true 5.56 chambers. I bought one of their "mil-spec" barrels in the 7.5" length and cases were getting stuck in the chamber. I sent the barrel to Ned Christiansen and before he reamed it out, he noted it was not 5.56.
The 7.5" build was for a novelty range gun. I would never buy anything from CMMG meant for serious use or even bet my life on their shit.

That's unfortunate. That barrel was the only thing they make I was interested in.

RP88

03-08-11, 12:56

They did have chamber issues for awhile. A simple reaming or polishing fixed all the issues from what I heard. But yes, still an unfortunate occurrence.

Although sad that you got lemon'd, I don't think that a common AR problem means that they are lying about chambers. And the fact that not making a chamber to the right spec is 'common for when things go wrong' in apparently 60-80% of the AR brands out there says something...

Either way, I can't wait for my BCM middie to come in.;)

11B101ABN

03-08-11, 15:17

I am so glad I bought my 14.7 upper some years ago. The thing will make short work of anything I aim it at, and look good doing it. No FTF, FTE, or any other malfunctions at all that weren't attribuatble to a bad mag or ammo, and those were very few and far between. Currently, I have about 45-5000 rounds down the pipe.

Seriously, I think that either I was "lucky", or the level of service has dramatically changed. My upper was completely good to go, including the BCG I ordered w/ it. Good staking, too.

WOuld I buy CMMG again? No. There are too many other options, but I bring my girl to work every day, and have absolutely zero doubts about her killing the baddie when I ask her to.

Chef Jeff

03-08-11, 16:02

I've got the M4LE and from the looks of it, I musta got one of the good ones. I've had Zero problems with mine. And the price was nice too. My barrel is stamped CMMG WASP 5.56 NATO 1/9. (I love that 1/9 twist!)

mstennes

03-08-11, 18:17

As a Certified Flight Instructor, Advanced Aviation Ground Instructor, Commercial Pilot, and an aviation professional... I say you need to stop posting.

And don't fly another plane or drive another car if the thought of cross-industry production scares you. The same companies that make automobile tires also produce aircraft tires, tank treads, and similar products across various industries and theatres. Those $150 GPS systems that you purchase for your daily commute to work? The same companies make the systems that fly multi-million dollar commercial aircraft on autopilot.

And lol @ "BF Goodwrench."

You mean like GE light bulbs and GE jet engines:secret: