View Full Version : Cleaning 'lesson learned'
ok, an embarrasing topic: took the MP15 apart Saturday do do its first clean prior to that afternoon's shoot... came apart just great, no problems at all.
Unfortunately, I didn't like the way my new Otis kit patches were binding, so I used my field use patchworm on the thing.... mistake. Patchworm works great on my pistols at the range, and worked just fine on the AR set up for .20 cal.... added the .22 cal head to get a little extra patch tightness, and the rest is history... the plastic head and patch are stuck in the chamber.
OK, I learned my lesson, so no flames necessary....it is at the gunsmith, since I only have a cheap rod to poke it out with, did not want to do more damage.
That gunsmth sells Bore Tech rods.
- what is the opinion of those here? What diameter rod and what rod length for the AR?
- with the bore tech, what size/model jag do you use, and what size patch, to ensure that a patch does not get stuck in the bore?
- what bore guide to use with it?
- how do you prevent the Otis patch from binding or coming loose? I like the system (field use?) but don't trust it either.
An embarrasing lesson, but since the head is plastic and surrounded by a patch, I assume with competent removal no damage will have been done.
thanks!
I use Bore Snakes on both my 5.56 and 7.62. They work great.
I really like the Patchworms a lot. They're very inexpensive and generally do a great job. I have several. That said, my experience is similar to yours in that I've found the smaller calibers to be problematic. Unless you're using patches that have a very tight weave, the Patchworm will occasionally pull through the patch material resulting in a blocked bore. This never happens with the larger calibers, only with .22 and .17.
I've had great results with my various Otis kits. My only recommendation would be to include a good, coated rod or a hardwood dowel in your range bag for the occasional stuck casing or patch.
tracker722
05-17-10, 11:26
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yes, the patch was very tight and came out 'ragged' as to the outside diameter sections of the pathc- sort of like ragged threads so to speak. I tried to pinch it in accordance with the instructions.
One thing I realize is that since this was a first cleaning, pre-shoot, maybe the chrome lining has some rough spots that need to be smoothed with a few hundred rounds?
to those that used the patchworm successfully- what luck have you had with the .20 cal cleaning head (the one permanently attached) and the felt pieces?
Time to get a good Dewey system....
i'm kinda new to this platform but i havent cleaned my rifle in over 1k rnds and it runs like a top. my targets down range dont seam to mind the grime built up in my chamber. its also great to have black goo within reach to camo up o.O
My Otis patches got stuck too when I first started using it, after I had it all figured out I haven't had the problem since and use it in all my firearms.
RetreatHell
05-17-10, 16:40
Sorry for the thread hijack, buddy. But I've got a few questions in regard to metallic cleaning brushes.
Is it okay to use the bronze cleaning brush on the BCG? I don't know much about the various metals and how they react with one another, but isn't bronze a lot softer than steel? What other metals can a bronze cleaning brush be used on?
Also, I'm assuming it's okay to use the bronze brush to more easily get the thick carbon buildup off of my Surefire flash hiders and muzzle brakes, correct?
Once again SHV, sorry for the thread hijack, man. I just didn't want to start a whole new thread with my dumb questions.
Should be okay. For me, I'd rather soak it(mineral spirits) for a day and then clean it w/o using a brass brush; stiff plastic bristles on a good toothbrush has worked every time. Even after a day of a high round count class. If there is a particularly stubborn deposit, I use a razor blade to shave it off w/o damaging the coating.
Hi,
No worries on any thread hijack, we are all in this together.:)
So the gunsmith had an easy time knocking it out, as expected. We had to triple check that the little plastic cleaning head was out, since he didn't see or find one; a bore light showed a clean chanber, and a round fed to the proper spot in the bottle neck.
Live and learn... a $30 lesson.
So what is the concensus- Dewey or Bore tech (or tipton)?
yes- bronze bristle brushes are A-OK for all parts on the AR, and i'd add any gun. the bronze-phosphate is way softer than the parkerized steel you're brushing. you can actually tell just how soft the bronze is after you've been scrubbing on a bolt/carrier/whatever by the thin coating of bronze that gets left on the clean phosphate.
if you want to be super paranoid about it, you can work twice as hard for half the effect and use nylon bristle brushes.
as to the OP- i occasionally get patches stuck while jagging.. i got one stuck in the leade so bad i actually broke a cabinet in my shop trying to pry it out (longish story). you gotta make sure the patch you're using doesn't fold over past the jag- thats when you run into trouble.
RetreatHell
05-17-10, 18:03
yes- bronze bristle brushes are A-OK for all parts on the AR, and i'd add any gun. the bronze-phosphate is way softer than the parkerized steel you're brushing. you can actually tell just how soft the bronze is after you've been scrubbing on a bolt/carrier/whatever by the thin coating of bronze that gets left on the clean phosphate.
if you want to be super paranoid about it, you can work twice as hard for half the effect and use nylon bristle brushes.
Thanks a lot, man!:) I was pretty sure it was good to go.
I forgot to mention that the reason my SF brakes and FHs are so caked with carbon is b/c I've been shooting suppressed a lot lately. I actually soaked one of my surefire brakes in Slip 2000 Carbon Killer for 20 or so minutes, and it did absolutely nothing. It just doesn't seem to work on that really thick-layered, chunky carbon buildup. Next I sprayed it with cleaner/degreaser and scrubbed it with a standard nylon cleaning brush. Like you said, twice as hard and half the effect, if even that. Then I remembered I had a brand new, unused bronze brush.
It took me all of 15 minutes to get practically every last flake of carbon off that muzzle brake. It only would've taken 5 minutes if I just wanted to get the worst of it off so that the suppressor slides on and off easier, but it was so easy and effective that I decided to clean off all the carbon. Pretty friggin' cool!
However, it wasn't until AFTER I cleaned both of my MBs and my FH that I thought about the possibility of damaging them by using the bronze brush. Whoops:p
Anyhoo, thanks again!
Belmont31R
05-17-10, 18:15
I use an old paring knife to scrap carbon off the tail of my bolts. :confused: :cool:
I use an old paring knife to scrap carbon off the tail of my bolts. :confused: :cool:
i use razor blades. exacto blades work good for can adapters/brakes
RetreatHell
05-17-10, 19:03
I use an old paring knife to scrap carbon off the tail of my bolts. :confused: :cool:
Whoa there, wait a minute... you're a "bolt-tail scraper?" Well shit, if I'd have known that I wouldn't have even met up with you at the range last week, let alone trained with you! I feel like I don't even know you, man.:mad:
Kidding.:p To each their own. I'm too lazy to even break down the bolt carrier group at all whenever I actually get around to cleaning. The only reason I even cleaned my brake is so the SF suppressor would slide on and off much easier without getting hung up. Whenever I finally do take the time to completely clean a carbine of mine, I'll do it on a Sunday afternoon while watching a movie and it takes me about an hour and a half or two hours to clean every little nook and cranny. I don't do that very often though, mostly just wipe down the BCG, CH, upper and chamber, then apply more lube.
I was a lot more meticulous about cleaning when I only had 1 AR15, but now I open my gun safe and see 5 dirty carbines in front of me and I'm like, "ah, **** it.":p
Belmont31R
05-17-10, 19:41
Whoa there, wait a minute... you're a "bolt-tail scraper?" Well shit, if I'd have known that I wouldn't have even met up with you at the range last week, let alone trained with you! I feel like I don't even know you, man.:mad:
Kidding.:p To each their own. I'm too lazy to even break down the bolt carrier group at all whenever I actually get around to cleaning. The only reason I even cleaned my brake is so the SF suppressor would slide on and off much easier without getting hung up. Whenever I finally do take the time to completely clean a carbine of mine, I'll do it on a Sunday afternoon while watching a movie and it takes me about an hour and a half or two hours to clean every little nook and cranny. I don't do that very often though, mostly just wipe down the BCG, CH, upper and chamber, then apply more lube.
I was a lot more meticulous about cleaning when I only had 1 AR15, but now I open my gun safe and see 5 dirty carbines in front of me and I'm like, "ah, **** it.":p
Ha...I don't even know why you're worried about carbon on your brake when it was me who had to muscle it off the dang thing...:D
Old habits die hard I guess. I like cleaning guns so its no big deal to me. You can clean an AR to 95% in 20 minutes. Take one USGI cleaning brush, and quickly scrub the feedramp area, and BCG with Carbon cutter. Spray foaming bore cleaner in bore. Take brake cleaner, and rinse off BCG and CH. Take USGI chamber brush, dip it in carbon cutter, and clean chamber. Spray down inside of the upper, down the barrel, and down the gas tube with brake cleaner. Wipe everything down with an oily rag, apply lube, run bore snake down barrel with a couple drops of oil around the brush area.
I only clean every 1k or more. I went 5k +- on my SR15, and Im up to around 3-4k on my 11.5".
RetreatHell
05-17-10, 20:11
Ha...I don't even know why you're worried about carbon on your brake when it was me who had to muscle it off the dang thing...:D
Oh man, BURN!!:p
Ha! It's all good though, I just leave the bitch work to Soldiers is all.:D ;)
Alright, I promise I'm done thread jacking now. Apologies to the OP.
Belmont31R
05-17-10, 20:41
Oh man, BURN!!:p
Ha! It's all good though, I just leave the bitch work to Soldiers is all.:D ;)
Alright, I promise I'm done thread jacking now. Apologies to the OP.
Hey you know why Marines have to sew name tapes on their back pockets? To let the sailors know to thank when they are done...;) But then again Im not sure if the "its not gay if you're underway" thing is from the Navy or USMC....:confused:
What do you think. SR25 EMC, Hensoldt 3-12, or a 2nd SR15?
Speaking of cleaning (to keep on topic) did you catch what those guys on the range were trying to get out when they borrowed my cleaning rod? That small guy was too hyper to make out much....:cool:
Oh and OP....if you get cleaning patches the ones Ive seen are usually something like 22-270 caliber. I just cut them in half, and they work fine going down a 5.56 bore. I use a Dewey rod. Always use a coated rod unless you want to risk damaging your bore, and go back to front. Use a bore guide if possible. With a CL barrel though bore maintenance is really quite minimal. Id only give it a good brushing with patches, brushes, and rods if I noticed an accuracy drop off. Ive got current use setups with 10K+ rounds, and only really cleaned the bore once. They shoot as good as they did when new.
A stainless barrel Id pay a little more attention to but not much.
A follow up question- I wiped down the outsides of my AR with CLP, and the finish dulled on the aluminum upper and lower. I assume that is due to oil absorption into the oxide surface.
However, since the MP15 seemed shinier before- did it do anything harmful? I noticed that wherever the factory grease had touched when I first got it, the same dulling happened.
what's the opinion on leaving the bolt back to get a lock cable thru the magwell and ejection port? Will leaving the bolt back stress any spings or action components?
Thanks
thanks everyone! appreciate the advice.
Finally got to shoot a few boxes through it this weekend- no issues. The set of BUIS I got for it were very consistent, once I figured out how to compensate for them.
How does one adjust windage on a front sight? Mine are off to the left.
My Bushnell HoloScope did not work out so well... I will take my son with me to figure out why. Can't seem to adjust the reticle low enough; I have shot the SWAT team's EotTech's twice now, so I know the concept works. :-) I might have to look into a riser, but I will see what he says- he is on the university paintball team (our tuition $ hard at work. :-) )
My cleaning regimen: Field strip, knock the chunks out, brush the chamber, run a bore snake, generously relube.
I own some very nice coated cleaning rods. I'm not sure where they are.
For the carbon on the bolt tail, if it doesn't come off with the rag I wiped it with, I ignore it.
Windage is generally adjusted via knob on the right side of the rear sight, not the front, unless you have a FS sight that allows you to do so.
Locking the bolt back does no harm, though if using a cable lock I would close the bolt as far as it would go.
thopkins22
05-24-10, 09:23
A follow up question- I wiped down the outsides of my AR with CLP, and the finish dulled on the aluminum upper and lower. I assume that is due to oil absorption into the oxide surface.
However, since the MP15 seemed shinier before- did it do anything harmful? I noticed that wherever the factory grease had touched when I first got it, the same dulling happened.
It's fine...as you'll see when the oil dries.;)
How does one adjust windage on a front sight? Mine are off to the left.
Unless you're shooting an M240 or the like...you don't. Windage is adjusted on the rear sight.
Usually, there is a knob, and on that knob there is an arrow with the word "left" or "right" by it. That arrow indicates that, if you turn the knob in that direction, the strike of the round will move in the direction indicated by the word adjacent to the arrow.
thanks, got it... if hits are to the left. you turn the rear site windage adjustment to the right. I probably need to turn it more than I did.
what's the best way to adjust the front site elevation, without a specific tool? Keep in mind that this is a cheap leapers/UTG, no instructions (I know, I know... let the flames begin... I had (have) high hopes for my Holosight :-))
thopkins22
05-25-10, 11:12
Bullet tips usually work well, as do Glock tools.
Honestly though, as well as they work, the proper $5 tool makes everything easy.
Years ago when I was in BCT in the Army... I won't go into how many years, but it was just post-Viet Nam, you do the math, we had a nimrod from LA(Not Lower Alabama) that stuck the bore brush/rod in from the muzzle end. The brush got stuck. He pushed and shoved, and couldn't get the brush to move. He tried twisting, and suddenly it started turning easy(unscrewing the bore brush into the bore). He then went to the firing line for record fire, and fired a round into the bore brush. M16 jammed. He did immediate action and shoved another round in there and fired again. Jammed again. Immediate action again and shoved another round in there. Drill sergeant looks over and there is smoke pouring from the weapon. Drill sergeant performs immediate action on the nimrod kicking the weapon away before it had a chance to explode and proceeded to beat the crap out of the recruit. The barrel had expanded out. The upper was toast. The lower looked to be intact. Recruit paid for a new weapon.:eek:
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