View Full Version : G19 CCW and Lack of Thumb Safety?
I know nothing about CCW of a handgun since I live in a state which does not think I have the right to protect myself. But I just got a G19 for my GF to use when we go to the range since she finds my Beretta 90-Two to big/heavy and having too much recoil with a then .40 round.
I sent away all my paperwork for the Florida CCW permit so that I can carry when I visit my friends in the normal parts of the country, ie PA, NC, SC and so on. I go to NC at least 2 times a year to visit my best friends who moves away fron NJ... Lucky guys.
Anyway, I am looking to get a IWB holster but the fact that the G19 does not have a safety that I am more comfortable with like the one on my Beretta kinda scares me. I don't want to pull a Plaxico Burress and shoot my nuts off... I am kinda partial to them. I know there is that integrated safety on the trigger, but I wanted to get the oppinions of those who know.
I see a lot on here carry G17/19 just wanted to see what you think of the issue.
Well for starters, Plaxico Burress wasn't using a holster. If he was wearing a belt and a holster, the likelihood of that incident occurring drops by orders of magnitude IMO.
Use a good kydex and/or leather holster and be careful when holstering. Treat the weapon as if it is loaded and you should be fine.
Well for starters, Plaxico Burress wasn't using a holster. If he was wearing a belt and a holster, the likelihood of that incident occurring drops by orders of magnitude IMO.
Use a good kydex and/or leather holster and be careful when holstering. Treat the weapon as if it is loaded and you should be fine.
LOL
I wasn't reffring to Plexico's use of a holster... just saying I did not want to shoot myself lol.
The G19 is a better choise to carry than my 90-two which is MUCH larger... but mechanical safety issue made me thing of the football player with a bullet wound in his thigh lol.
LOL
I wasn't reffring to Plexico's use of a holster... just saying I did not want to shoot myself lol.
Understood...point is though, if you are using a holster that securely holds the firearm and covers the trigger guard, the lack of a manual safety is a relative non-issue if you ask me. When my 19 is in my Comp-tac MTAC, I don't see any way that the gun can fire; safety or no safety.
rifleman2000
05-17-10, 10:13
I would rather have a no safety glock or any DA/SA pistol over the Beretta slide mounted safety.
First, it can be very difficult to switch off with your thumb when drawing from a holster. I carried an issue 92 on fire for this reason.
Second, and more important in my opinion, the Beretta safety can easily be engaged accidentally while manipulating the slide (reloads or immediate action). That can get you killed.
With a good holster and safe gun handling habits, a Glock 19 should be an acceptable choice for carry. I have carried for years, mostly with guns that have no external safety.
Understood...point is though, if you are using a holster that securely holds the firearm and covers the trigger guard, the lack of a manual safety is a relative non-issue if you ask me. When my 19 is in my Comp-tac MTAC, I don't see any way that the gun can fire; safety or no safety.
Most excelent!
Thanks!
I would say get a cheap holster for now and just wear it around the house. Get used to it. Heck even use an airsoft gun to get the feel for it. Draw and re holster see if you hit the trigger.
Then step up to a real gun and holster. Stay unloaded for a while till your used to it. Before long it will be 2nd nature and you and your boys will be happy.
Just_Plain_T.
05-17-10, 10:50
Use of a good holster will prevent any accidents.
Personally, I tend to recommend one of the following for IWB/conceal carry:
Crossbreed Holsters (http://crossbreedholsters.com/Holsters/IWBInsideWaistBand/tabid/56/CategoryID/1/List/0/Level/1/ProductID/1/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost+DESC%2cProductName) (leather and kydex)
Or one (http://www.onesourcetactical.com/archangelappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband.aspx) of these two (http://www.onesourcetactical.com/joabappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband.aspx) holsters by Dale Fricke (all kydex)
Both Crossbreed and Dale Fricke make great holsters for conceal carry. I personally have holsters from both of them, and I will say you cannot go wrong with either.
The Crossbreed has some cant to it. The Dale Fricke holsters have none. It's just a personal preference on how you wish to carry and draw your handgun, and it doesn't matter otherwise.
John_Wayne777
05-17-10, 10:55
I see a lot on here carry G17/19 just wanted to see what you think of the issue.
The objective reality is that it is easier to shoot yourself with a striker-fired handgun that has a ~ 5.5 pound trigger and no manual safety than it is to shoot yourself with a hammer-fired handgun that has a manual safety and a 14 pound trigger.
...but there are lots of people who manage to avoid shooting themselves with the former and plenty of people who have managed to shoot themselves with the latter.
Be aware that when you're using something like a Glock you have a bit less room for error in handling the weapon than you do with some other weapons, train appropriately to instill good handling habits, avoid holstering with any dangly stuff on that can get in the trigger guard, and drive on.
Use of a good holster will prevent any accidents.
Unfortunately that's not true. You can have a great holster and still shoot yourself because of a drawstring on your jacket or because you just had your finger on the trigger. A good holster will cover the trigger and will not allow something like say a thumbsnap to work inside of the trigger guard of the weapon...but that's about it. Preventing accidents is going to be largely your responsibility regardless of the quality of your equipment. Some options make it harder...some make it easier.
Been carrying a 19 IWB for years now and still have both nuts. Biggest worry would probably be shirt, zipper pulls, drawstrings, etc. getting caught in the trigger guard. Just practice and you should be fine (the airsoft gun is a really good idea).
As others have stated, lack of manual safety does require you to be more "tuned in" especially when re-holstering the gun, making sure there is no clothing / obstructions in the way. I would also suggest picking up a SW 642/442 if possible. It is reliable and makes a great pocket gun if it turns out that IWB is not for you.
Bulldog7972
05-17-10, 16:50
I had a 92 and sold it. Because of that slide mounted decocker. IMHO there is no worse place to place a safety/decocker than on the slide. In addition, I believe Beretta recommends carrying the 92 with the decocker in the fire position. That's how I carried mine for about 10 years anyway. Get a good holster and keep that finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. Do that and you will be fine.
I agree practice with airsoft/wearing around the house will get you used tothings but would go for a good holster right off the bat. I too carried my beretta safe off when deployed for the same reasons mentioned. The biggest difference between the glock and beretta is the much heavier and longer trigger stroke on the beretta. FYI if you train to grasp the front of the slide and adjust technique you can avoid issues with the beretta decokcer/safety-which goes from fire to safe a bit too easy for my tastes. I have seen many occurences (thankfully only on the training range) where soldiers grasped slide to do a reload and did not realize they put the safety on-then they can't figure out why the pistol won't fire.
My take is that you have 3 possible choices:
1. Learn how to handle and CC your weapon in a ready to fire, no thumb-safety state.
2. Israeli Carry/Condition 3, no round in the chamber, and get really good with fast draw/rack procedure.
3. If neither of those choices satisfy you and you're still looking for a striker-fired polymer framed gun, look into the M&P which has a thumb-safety option.
You have nothing to worry about as long as you practice proper gun safety. Glocks are probably the most carried sidearm in the US, if not the world, and you don't exactly hear lots of reports of people having ND's with them more than other guns.
You have nothing to worry about as long as you practice proper gun safety. Glocks are probably the most carried sidearm in the US, if not the world, and you don't exactly hear lots of reports of people having ND's with them more than other guns.
Respectfully, there are an awful lot of NDs with Glocks out there. Sure, every gun has it's pros and cons (a DA Beretta is pretty damn safe, until you forget to decock, etc). I love 'em, but you've got to be pretty dialed in between the ears with a gun with a short 5.5#trigger, and no safety. The gun is fantastic, I carry it, but it is not forgiving of any mistakes ever - and we not perfect. JW777nailed it.
Even the best of us can get something caught in the trigger guard while reholstering.
I have carried a Glock 19 and can tell you that if you follow the rules of gun safety, use a proper holster, and you pay attention to what you're doing, you're not likely to have an issue.
If you don't follow the rules of gun safety, aren't using a proper holster and/or won't pay attention to what you're doing, the only gun you should carry is the blue plastic kind.
Sparing all of us the endlessly-rehashed discussion of manual safety vs. not, Glock vs. Gun X, etc., I'll say this: Choosing a firearm is a balance of positives and negatives in all circumstances. As long as that's the calculus you're using, you can choose the right gun for you. I carry a Glock 19.
You could always try a cominolli thumb safety...although reviews are mixed.
http://www.cominolli.com/ourproducts.html
...but there are lots of people who manage to avoid shooting themselves with the former and plenty of people who have managed to shoot themselves with the latter.
We are professional enough to carry a Glock.................... I am by carry like I am suicide...... I like myself wayyyyyyyy to much to put more holes in myself.
Comp-Tac Infidel: simple, trigger is not accessible, tension is adjustable, reasonably priced and fairly comfortable.
Thanks for all the awesome info guys! All well noted!
I know lots f you carry this sidearm everyday, and are safe with it. I am no idiot myself, I do not play with guns so I can only assume I will be safe carrying.
But since I will only be doing it a few days a year when I am not in this communist hell hole of a state, I just wanted to see what the oppinions where and what my options are.
Thanks again!
All mechanical safeties can and will fail. The number one safety is between your ears. But as had been written previously the glock as well as any of the other striker fired pistols with no external safeties leave no room for error. You must train yourself to always keep your finger off of the trigger. You must also train yourself to clear the holster of any obstructions prior to reholstering the weapon.
For most of us not in law enforcement who have CCW permits re-holstering a weapon is less of an issue. Your weapon should be concealed at all times. The only time you would need to re-holster without using both hands (one to clear the holster and one to re-holster) would be after you were required to defend yourself. At that point your training/practice will hopefully take over and you would re-holster safely. The times where you re-holster in a vehicle for example should be few and far between.
All of that being said though, the only striker fired pistol I carry is an XD because I want that added insurance of the grip safety. When I holster it my thumb is placed over the rear of the slide to keep it in battery as I holster the weapon. This removes any pressure from the grip safety.
I would rather have a no safety glock or any DA/SA pistol over the Beretta slide mounted safety.
Exactly.
The choice of a holster is important but more important by far is being familiar with the pistol and it's manual of arms. Practice drawing, shooting, dry fire lots. Take a class or two if you can.
The Archangel
05-21-10, 14:43
Revolvers don't have safeties either don't know why people fear the lack of an external safety on Glocks. Get a Kydex holster that covers up the triggerguard and keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target.
Because most revolvers have a different trigger pull. People are right to be concerned about the Glock trigger if they are not familiar with the pistol, safety, or shooting.
RAM Engineer
05-21-10, 15:26
The most dangerous part of CCW-ing a striker-fired gun is during holstering. Seems like that is the most likely time for negligence to bite you in the arse.
Thusly, if you are 100% switched on during CCW (like you should be) then you should be 110% switched on during holstering.
The most dangerous part of CCW-ing a striker-fired gun is during holstering. Seems like that is the most likely time for negligence to bite you in the arse.
Thusly, if you are 100% switched on during CCW (like you should be) then you should be 110% switched on during holstering.
Many of the NDs that have happened at local ranges or classes were during holstering. Indexing along the frame works for me.
My take is that you have 3 possible choices:
1. Learn how to handle and CC your weapon in a ready to fire, no thumb-safety state.
2. Israeli Carry/Condition 3, no round in the chamber, and get really good with fast draw/rack procedure.
3. If neither of those choices satisfy you and you're still looking for a striker-fired polymer framed gun, look into the M&P which has a thumb-safety option.
I believe if you have kids and/or gangster/appendix carry, #2 is the only way to go with a Glock.
TriumphRat675
05-21-10, 17:16
Revolvers don't have safeties either don't know why people fear the lack of an external safety on Glocks. Get a Kydex holster that covers up the triggerguard and keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target.
Revos have 8 - 12 lb trigger pulls and external hammers. If something gets in the trigger guard when you're reholstering, you'll have the tactile sensation of either the hammer being cocked or simply resistance to the act of reholstering itself. Most Glocks have 3.5 - 5.5 triggers with short trigger pulls and no external hammer to warn you the gun is getting cocked - there is way less margin for error.
I believe if you have kids and/or gangster/appendix carry, #2 is the only way to go with a Glock.
After listening to Todd Green's AIWB lecture, I firmly believe nobody should AIWB with a gun that doesn't have an external hammer, or at the very, very least a manual safety. The whole idea scares the bejeezus out of me.
John_Wayne777
05-21-10, 23:04
With an external hammer it is almost impossible to fire the weapon when you place your thumb on the hammer. At some point I'm going to have to find a way to put up on youtube a demonstration of this. If you take a DA handgun with an external hammer, hook the trigger on something solid and lean into it with your full body weight...while your thumb is pressing on the hammer...and the hammer will not move.
While it may be fashionable in some circles to deny the basic truths of physics in favor of a certain type of handgun, reality doesn't change. The ability to put your thumb on the hammer can provide a great safety benefit when reholstering. A large federal LE agency has actually done studies on accidental/negligent discharges and has found that longer trigger pulls offer better protection against them than a shorter travel trigger.
I carry a striker-fired handgun with no manual safety, and a roughly 5 pound short-travel trigger every day...and I do so without inordinate amounts of fear. It's not unsafe, but a weapon like that has less of a margin for error than some other types of handguns. That's just the simple reality of it. To compensate I've adopted some procedures that help minimize the chances of an AD...especially since I now carry appendix most of the time.
Glocks/M&P's/similar designs are not inherently unsafe...but neither are they forgiving when it comes to handling errors. People shouldn't be terrified of them, but they should have a realistic understanding of what they are dealing with.
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