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dwood67
05-17-10, 18:28
The below Michigan House Bills deal with overall length of rifles. I'm not sure, as worded, that they would make Michigan SBR legal.
Can someone tell me what real change(s) would occur if they become law. I believe bbl. length must remain 16" + ?

Thanks,

D.W.

Monday, May 17, 2010
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Michigan Firearms Legislative Update

The following Bills are not yet law. They must be passed by both House and Senate then signed into law by the Governor.

House Bills 4501, 4502 and 5037 of 2009 (passed by House June 16, 2009) - Would amend the definition of "pistol" found in three Michigan statutes, effective January 1, 2010. Currently, the term "pistol" in these statutes refers to a loaded or unloaded firearm that is "30 inches or less in length" or one that "by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm." Under the bills, "30 inches or less in length" would be changed to "26 inches or less in length."

Examples of firearms that gun dealers say could be affected by this definition change include AK-47s and AR-15s (civilian versions of military M1 semiautomatic rifles) with folding or adjustable stocks (provided that they measure between 26 and 30 inches long and are operable with the stock folded), and some AK-47s, Walther G-22s, and FN PS 90s with so-called bullpup configurations.

Whether a firearm is classified as a pistol affects many things, including, among others, the minimum age for purchasing it from a dealer with a federal firearms license (FFL); whether a license is necessary to acquire it; how and where the firearm may be lawfully transported and carried; whether it may be sold by a pawn shop, and whether armor-piercing ammunition can be used in it.

House Bill 5038 of 2009 (passed by House June 16, 2009) - Would allow people who lawfully owned firearms with a length of more than 26 inches but less than 30 inches on January 1, 2010, to continue to consider them "pistols" - under a purchase license, a concealed pistol license, or an exemption - after the new pistol definition took effect.

House Bills 4501, 4502, and 5038 are all tie-barred, meaning that none would take effect unless all three bills were enacted into law. House Bill 5037 is not tie-barred to the other bills.

House Bill 6053 of 2010 (introduced April 20, 2010) - Would allow residents with a Concealed Pistol License to carry a can of pepper spray that contains more than 2 percent of the active ingredients. Citizens with this license would be able to carry a more potent pepper spray that could be up to 10 percent active ingredients.
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shittercrewchief
05-17-10, 18:39
im confused
dwood67
05-17-10, 18:50
Unless I'm missing something, I agree, The law is pointless. If overall bbl. length must be 16", what is really gained ?

A shorter over-all length collapsable stock ?

D.W.
dhrith
05-17-10, 21:57
I'm not going to read the bill sorry.
What you captioned looks like they're just tightening up the MI psitol definition to sub 26" which is a very small step in the right direction of cleaning up our retarded laws.
But I can guarantee we aren't getting SBR's with this.

Michigan pistol is a crock of shit left over from some MSP muckity mucks trying to exert their will on the pistol laws from days of old.

The ONLY thing we gain by it, (this appears in HB5038) is that if I have what is defined as a Michigan pistol, (i.e. 26-30 rifle, collapsible stock) can carry it loaded in my truck, ONLY in the state of michigan. This is ONLY ...if it's registered as a PISTOL, while IN the state of michigan. They had to be PRE-registered to JAN of this year if I remember correctly to do this so you're SOL if you missed it. I only have one like that and it's already registered so that's as far as my interest laid in keeping up with this bill.


Apologies in advance for any inaccuracies.
kal
05-18-10, 13:16
I live in MI and would love to see the laws changed on what is defined as a "pistol".

The law states if a "rifle" is capable of firing in its most collapsed position, and is between 26-30 inches in its most collapsed position, it is a "pistol", and has to be registered.:mad:

That shit has to go.
Joeywhat
05-18-10, 16:51
Remember that this means you can no longer carry a loaded 'Michigan pistol' (rifle between 26-30') in your vehicle! Once this passes it will be treated like any other rifle, which means unloaded and cased or in the trunk of your vehicle at all times!

I, for one, do not care to have my ability to legally carry a loaded rifle in my vehicle to be taken away.
kal
05-18-10, 20:15
I, for one, do not care to have my ability to legally carry a loaded rifle in my vehicle to be taken away.

I, for one, don't want to get a pistol permit and register my newly bought rifle.

It is especially frustrating for citizens whose police departments are garbage. I believe the Livonia PD has you wait 3 days after applying for a purchase permit to receive it, which is illegal, and they charge a fee.

WTF, over!?
dhrith
05-18-10, 22:02
Remember that this means you can no longer carry a loaded 'Michigan pistol' (rifle between 26-30') in your vehicle! Once this passes it will be treated like any other rifle, which means unloaded and cased or in the trunk of your vehicle at all times!

I, for one, do not care to have my ability to legally carry a loaded rifle in my vehicle to be taken away.

There's a grandfather clause if it's pre-registered 01JAN10 or something like that.
500grains
05-18-10, 23:03
Unless I'm missing something, I agree, The law is pointless.

Just like all gun laws.
Terry
05-19-10, 08:15
Pro's and con's on both sides, but unless someone can convince me different, I like being to "carry" my folding stock rifle.
bsf
05-19-10, 11:04
I vehemently oppose this as is.

Add a fourth bill tie-barred to the other three that morphs our CPL (Concealed Pistol License) into a CWL (Concealed Weapons License) that covers long guns, and I will support it.
kal
05-19-10, 11:50
Pro's and con's on both sides, but unless someone can convince me different, I like being to "carry" my folding stock rifle.

How about MI passes a law stating citizens can carry loaded weapons in their cars without licenses, permits, registration, and other non-sense. Instead of having a "one or the other" approach.
bsf
05-19-10, 12:53
How about MI passes a law stating citizens can carry loaded weapons in their cars without licenses, permits, registration, and other non-sense. Instead of having a "one or the other" approach.

Great in theory, but I do not believe there is enough support for that. Just getting the CPL expanded to include long guns would require more support from gun owners than they are probably willing to give.
500grains
05-19-10, 13:01
Great in theory, but I do not believe there is enough support for that. Just getting the CPL expanded to include long guns would require more support from gun owners than they are probably willing to give.

I support the idea of both open and concealed carry of long guns. Guns are a great deterrent to crime, especially if the bad guy can see the gun and concludes early on that he should behave. Cops don't have to carry their guns concealed and citizens should not have to either. As far as carrying a long gun, if used they tend to be wielded much more accurately, enhancing safety of the person defending himself and all others in the vicinity except the bad dude.

In Utah it is ok to concealed carry a handgun or a shotgun, but it is illegal to concealed carry an SBR or SBS.
Mjolnir
05-19-10, 21:18
Get caught with what you and I *KNOW* is a technically a center fire carbine, loaded in your vehicle and you'll wish like hell you interpreted the current law differently. Problem is we KNOW it's a "rifle" not a pistol. They'll ask you what is it. You're doomed no matter your answer because the officer knows it's *NOT* a pistol.

The current laws need amending...
bsf
05-20-10, 11:50
Get caught with what you and I *KNOW* is a technically a center fire carbine, loaded in your vehicle and you'll wish like hell you interpreted the current law differently. Problem is we KNOW it's a "rifle" not a pistol. They'll ask you what is it. You're doomed no matter your answer because the officer knows it's *NOT* a pistol.

The current laws need amending...

Of course common sense indicates these “Michigan pistols” are rifles and shotguns. What does law have to do with common sense, though? It is legal to carry them under current MCL. Some would argue the MI and/or US Constitution authorize it. Carry a copy of your RI-60 form, relevant law, and AG Opinion w/ the gun. Avoid behavior that makes LE take notice of you. If stopped anyway, do not consent to any search. If searched anyway, stand your ground w/o coming off as a d**k. You may be “doomed” no matter your answer, but I most certainly would not be. I think you accept defeat too easily. Though I think caution is required when interacting with all LEO’s that are not actually your friends, they are not all a bunch of knuckle dragging Neanderthals with no knowledge of the law looking to jam up every person on the planet for everything conceivable.

Yes the current laws need “amending”, generally meaning “deleting”.