View Full Version : Questions about LMT
Hello, first post here. I have been reading and learning alot about different ARs on here since I discovered it. There are alot of people out there like me who never knew about LMT, Sabre, CMG, etc. I have heard all the B.S. at gunshows and shops...."Colt makes M4s for the govt, but Bushmaster makes the M16s" and "Most of the parts in all ARs are made by FN, so you should buy these Model1 uppers..."
I have owned a few ARs in the past, but always non tier 1. After discovering the difference in qualities, I have looked at my current ARs and can see the differences between the very common ARs and these "tier 1" ARs :mad:
I want to get a 14.5" carbine. I am thinking about going with LMT lower and upper after reading about the different brands. I have a few questions if you could give me your expert opinions.
1. Other than cost, is there any reason not to go with the Enhanced BCG? Are they generally thought to be as reliable as the standard BCG?
2. Are all LMTs created equally? I know with Colt the civilian vs. government models are supposedly different quality, the civilian isnt milspec? This might be another gunshow myth now that I think about it.
3. Is there any reason why I should go with another brand upper or lower?
Thanks for your consideration.
2. Are all LMTs created equally? I know with Colt the civilian vs. government models are supposedly different quality, the civilian isnt milspec? This might be another gunshow myth now that I think about it.
i doubt that is true, i put most gunshow comments in the myth section of my storage device :p
Hello, first post here. I have been reading and learning alot about different ARs on here since I discovered it. There are alot of people out there like me who never knew about LMT, Sabre, CMG, etc. I have heard all the B.S. at gunshows and shops...."Colt makes M4s for the govt, but Bushmaster makes the M16s" and "Most of the parts in all ARs are made by FN, so you should buy these Model1 uppers..."
I have owned a few ARs in the past, but always non tier 1. After discovering the difference in qualities, I have looked at my current ARs and can see the differences between the very common ARs and these "tier 1" ARs :mad:
I want to get a 14.5" carbine. I am thinking about going with LMT lower and upper after reading about the different brands. I have a few questions if you could give me your expert opinions.
1. Other than cost, is there any reason not to go with the Enhanced BCG? Are they generally thought to be as reliable as the standard BCG?
2. Are all LMTs created equally? I know with Colt the civilian vs. government models are supposedly different quality, the civilian isnt milspec? This might be another gunshow myth now that I think about it.
3. Is there any reason why I should go with another brand upper or lower?
Thanks for your consideration.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert:cool:
Yes Colt makes M4's for the gov't, but FN has the primary contract their M16's. Not sure about BM, although they've made M16's for the gov't in the past (GW1era?)
1. No need to pay for the enhanced bolt when you can buy an extractor upgrade for $4 from Bravo Co. (stronger silicon spring, black bumper & Crane O ring). Really only needed if going below 14", but I have a SBR so it's preferred.
2. LMT makes good stuff, however, there has been some debate about that recently due to purple uppers, not parking under FSB, no F marked FSB, etc. Personal preference I guess. Folks insist on LMT because they supply some uppers to the Navy & USCG for their Mk18Mod0 program, so they must be better right?
3. Again...personal preference due to experience/likes. I would buy CMMG before LMT, but that's me. I will never buy an upper other than CMMG. I just grabbed a SBR upper from CMMG & it's the best piece of war gear I've bought & it's one of those perverbial stubborn shorties. It is truly a joy to deploy. You get more options than the LMT & you can't beat what they give you for the price...i.e., complete bcg. Buy an LMT at $485 + ship w/out a bcg vs. a CMMG for$525 (for mine) with a quality bcg. LMT will cost you over $600 just to get a bcg/charging handle combo after all is said & done. No thanks.
I'm not bashing LMT. I just won't buy one over a CMMG due to the reasons listed above. That's me, but only you can decide what's best for you. Good luck & keep asking questions. This site sure has helped me with a few details!
Just a FYI the LMT bolt comes with the bolt upgrade already. I have several complete LMT's and never a problem with either. Im a LMT dealer have sold many with no complaints whatsoever. I would just go with the standard FA BCG and skip the enhanced and save a few bucks.
I vote go for the LMT.
I've got a 16" LMT upper with LMT standard Defender 2000 lower, I'm satisfied with its quality and I've had quite a bit of Colt pre ban and currently have a Colt 6721 and a Colt Match Target HBAR with a Colt M16A2 upper half.
The best part that I like with the LMT is its barrel and accuracy, their barrels are supplied by Rock Creek Barrels and are processed differently compared to other brands of barrels.
Rock Creek overbores their barrels prior to chrome plating to prevent tolerance stacking and it's a more accurate method before the chrome pating are applied.
Other brands of barrels usually just adjust the bore size by Electropolishing prior to chroming which which have more variable and larger tolerances compared to the less variable and more accurate overboring process of Rock Creek.
I have not heard of too many complaints of owners of the LMT Enhanced BCG, I'm using the standard LMT M16 BCG with properly staked carrier key screws, MPI, shot peened, test fired each and every one (like Colt), and I only upgraded it with chrome silicone springs (no Crane O-ring for now maybe later on).
If you have extra budget go ahead and try the Enhanced BCG it should be fine as is without upgrading it like the standard SA and FA BCGs.
As far as I know from other LMT owners their quality is liked by a majority of guys except for a few with bad finish color (purple) or other rare defects which the factory are willing to fix, no company are immune from this even tier 1 brands.
The only brand I would suggest as an alternate would be the Colt 6921 (14.5" SBR model) but cost a little more.
LMT has a solid rep, ISO certified, and supplies numerous m4/m16/m203 and other parts to SOCOM and other services... Bottom line the have a solid QA/QC process.
Dano, you should go tell that to the Colt nutjobs/collectors over at ARFcom..... they insist and argue that LMT's uppers are not in use with certain units in SOCOM. If you state that the LMT 10.5" is issued to NSW... all hell breaks loose.
Robb Jensen
05-18-07, 05:03
LMT is GTG. Occasionally I see overtorqued barrels. It doesn't effect function, it's just when removing a barrel from an upper that you discover this. I've taken to cutting off the delta ring, snap ring and weld spring with bolt cutters and use a large pipe wrench to loosen the barrel nut. Then I just replace these parts.
Razorhunter
05-18-07, 06:36
I could have sworn that I read on LMT's website, something to the affect of them torquing bbls to about 130 ft lbs!!!
Robb Jensen
05-18-07, 06:39
I could have sworn that I read on LMT's website, something to the affect of them torquing bbls to about 130 ft lbs!!!
I've seen them that high. I've often wondered if the integrity of the aluminum at the receiver is compromised when you torque that high?
I've torqued barrels as low as 25ft lbs without ill effects.
I find that the least torque required to time the barrel nut seems to provide the most consistent accuracy in an AR. Other things I do contribute to it's overall accuracy but one of the biggies is barrel torque.
Thanks for all of the replies. I found a dealer to order me up an LMT lower with SOPMOD stock. I am still looking at uppers and trying to decide. I am just looking for the most reliable gun and I dont mind spending a few hundred more. I just bought a new 20" AR and am having to send the upper back to the manufacturer because it took over 20 clicks to sight it in. After researching after the fact I realized these easy to obtain brands take all of these shortcuts just to save a few dollars. I am selling that once it gets back fixed and my other "famous" maker AR to get this one. I appreciate all of your feedback and m4carbine.net for the no nonsense info compared to other sites.
Dano, you should go tell that to the Colt nutjobs/collectors over at ARFcom..... they insist and argue that LMT's uppers are not in use with certain units in SOCOM. If you state that the LMT 10.5" is issued to NSW... all hell breaks loose.
Shoot, I have seen the classified CRANE catalog and it is full of LMT parts. This is what we call a CLUE!
C4
Thanks for all of the replies. I found a dealer to order me up an LMT lower with SOPMOD stock. I am still looking at uppers and trying to decide. I am just looking for the most reliable gun and I dont mind spending a few hundred more. I just bought a new 20" AR and am having to send the upper back to the manufacturer because it took over 20 clicks to sight it in. After researching after the fact I realized these easy to obtain brands take all of these shortcuts just to save a few dollars. I am selling that once it gets back fixed and my other "famous" maker AR to get this one. I appreciate all of your feedback and m4carbine.net for the no nonsense info compared to other sites.
Just get a LMT upper and be done with it.
C4
docsprague
05-18-07, 18:00
Just get a LMT upper and be done with it.
C4
+1 I have had olympic (in the ban days) Colt, and Bushmaster. Right now all three of my ARs are LMT.
Shoot, I have seen the classified CRANE catalog and it is full of LMT parts. This is what we call a CLUE!
C4
Yeah, MANY people have told them that, including KevinB. They say that LMT only supplies parts (stocks, sights etc etc), not uppers. The Colt kool aid drinkers demand proof or pictures as they have not seen 'solicitations' for LMT CQBR uppers.
GunLovinTexan
05-18-07, 22:01
Im a heavy Colt Kool-Aid Drinker and i beilive that CRANE uses LMT parts...
Been then agian i have two LMTS.
Rob
Shoot, I have seen the classified CRANE catalog and it is full of LMT parts. This is what we call a CLUE!
C4
Are you giving away classified information?
I'm really happy with my LMT 14.5". Got a Colt/Diemaco carrier in it, Colt carry handle and going to replace LMT 6-pos. buffer tube with a Colt 4-pos. extension and H-buffer (as soon as I get the goddamn castle nut off which is a testament to the quality of their staking).
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9465/clipboard01wb0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Are you giving away classified information?
Yes I am. :eek:
C4
Yeah, MANY people have told them that, including KevinB. They say that LMT only supplies parts (stocks, sights etc etc), not uppers. The Colt kool aid drinkers demand proof or pictures as they have not seen 'solicitations' for LMT CQBR uppers.
No, LMT uppers and complete weapons are in it along with their BUIS. I am sure more has been added, but that is just what I remember.
C4
It's a shame they don't make a mid-length.
It's a shame they don't make a mid-length.
LMT makes midlength barrels but only for their MRP model.
LMT : 5.56, 16" 1/7 Stainless Steel, Threaded Muzzle, for MRP link (http://www.lewismachine.net/product.php?p=62&cid=5&session=1105d433d65c9c9b57e27edaab6deb48)
going to replace LMT 6-pos. buffer tube with a Colt 4-pos. extension and H-buffer .
Any reason for the stock swap other then just to have a Colt or do you like the 4 postion better and if so why?
Any reason for the stock swap other then just to have a Colt or do you like the 4 postion better and if so why?
Just aesthetics I guess. I believe the LMT receiver extension tube is actually superior, 5 positions and 3 drain holes. The finish looks smoother too.
6 position on LMT's now
Correct, they also feature 3 additional drain holes:
http://aycu17.webshots.com/image/17496/2001852443980893217_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001852443980893217)
http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/17630/2001844001971268767_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001844001971268767)
After this part I'm sold on LMT
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/Gibbles1221/CMT_LMT.jpg
I also have a LMT charging handle and a CMT one, and the LMT one has a nicer finish it also seems to function smoother.
Soon I'm replacing my extension tube and the stock on my RRA carbine with an LMT tube, heavy buffer, and an CTR stock. :D
Razorhunter
06-01-07, 06:37
Anyone here got info on the new LMT gas piston system???
I have seen pics of it, and it looks quite odd (at least the piston itself does).
Anyone know when it might be available???
I'm dying to know...
twodollarbill
06-01-07, 16:50
As a new member...I just had to jump in on this one.
UPS just dropped off today a new LMT Monolithic Rail Platform
with a 16" barrel, standard bolt group and charging handle.
Order was filled in 18 days!!!! I am totally impressed!!!!
I was sold on LMT a few years ago and retired my Colts to "vault queens".
The LMT's are just WORK HORSE"S, nothing against the Colt's...I luv them.
We are currently running three LMT M4's.....hard to pick which is going to get
the upper......the wife's...oldest son's......or MINE!!!!!
I'm going with MINE!!!!!
PERFECT CHOICE
AR15barrels
06-02-07, 00:53
I've taken to cutting off the delta ring, snap ring and weld spring with bolt cutters and use a large pipe wrench to loosen the barrel nut. Then I just replace these parts.
:eek:
Bad Rob.
You must repent.
Robb Jensen
06-02-07, 06:08
:eek:
Bad Robb.
You must repent.
Sometimes you have to get Medieval w/o breaking stuff or hurting oneself. :)
We don't have a freezer big enough at work to try that trick, but when I used to work on my own stuff at home it did work pretty well.
Dano, you should go tell that to the Colt nutjobs/collectors over at ARFcom..... they insist and argue that LMT's uppers are not in use with certain units in SOCOM. If you state that the LMT 10.5" is issued to NSW... all hell breaks loose.
The issue is more specific then what LMT items are available from Crane, the issue is about the MK18 Mod0. So far this has been found:
KAC RIS and or M4A1 QD Compensator W/O shim:
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/07-July/08-Jul-2004/FBO-00615686.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/07-July/08-Jul-2004/FBO-00615686.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/09-September/13-Sep-2006/FBO-01140069.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/09-September/13-Sep-2006/FBO-01140069.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/12-December/02-Dec-2006/FBO-01188853.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/12-December/02-Dec-2006/FBO-01188853.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/12-Aug-2006/FBO-01112007.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/12-Aug-2006/FBO-01112007.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/03-March/26-Mar-2006/FBO-01014522.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/03-March/26-Mar-2006/FBO-01014522.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/02-February/05-Feb-2006/FBO-00980071.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/02-February/05-Feb-2006/FBO-00980071.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/07-July/29-Jul-2005/FBO-00856122.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/07-July/29-Jul-2005/FBO-00856122.htm)
LMT SOPMOD buttstock:
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/12-December/14-Dec-2005/FBO-00950382.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/12-December/14-Dec-2005/FBO-009 50382.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/09-September/24-Sep-2006/FBO-01152347.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/09-September/24-Sep-2006/FBO-01152347.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2007/04-April/08-Apr-2007/FBO-01268350.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2007/04-April/08-Apr-2007/FBO-01268350.htm)
LMT rear sight:
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/04-April/14-Apr-2004/FBO-00564127.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/04-April/14-Apr-2004/FBO-00564127.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/04-April/30-Apr-2005/FBO-00797625.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/04-April/30-Apr-2005/FBO-00797625.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/07-July/29-Jul-2005/FBO-00856131.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/07-July/29-Jul-2005/FBO-00856131.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/04-April/15-Apr-2006/FBO-01027690.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/04-April/15-Apr-2006/FBO-01027690.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2007/02-February/07-Feb-2007/FBO-01226120.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2007/02-February/07-Feb-2007/FBO-01226120.htm)
LMT Rear sight and SOPMOD buttstock:
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/06-June/23-Jun-2006/FBO-01074899.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/06-June/23-Jun-2006/FBO-01074899.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/16-Aug-2006/FBO-01114704.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/16-Aug-2006/FBO-01114704.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/26-Aug-2006/FBO-01125029.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/08-August/26-Aug-2006/FBO-01125029.htm)
Colt uppers and carbines:
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/02-February/22-Feb-2004/FBO-00527246.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/02-February/22-Feb-2004/FBO-00527246.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/05-May/08-May-2004/FBO-00581273.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2004/05-May/08-May-2004/FBO-00581273.htm)
www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/07-July/02-Jul-2006/FBO-01081514.htm (http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/07-July/02-Jul-2006/FBO-01081514.htm)
www.neco.navy.mil/static/840-v5static_sh.cfm?header_key=54687372&CFID=2667714&CFTOKEN=67770327 (https://www.neco.navy.mil/static/840-v5static_sh.cfm?header_key=54687372&CFID=2667714&CFTOKEN=67770327)
Chris Bartocci is currently researching the MK18 Mod0, considering he has much better contacts we shall see if he can find a LMT link (other then rear sights and buttstocks).
The issue is more specific then what LMT items are available from Crane, the issue is about the MK18 Mod0. So far this has been found:
-snip-
Chris Bartocci is currently researching the MK18 Mod0, considering he has much better contacts we shall see if he can find a LMT link (other then rear sights and buttstocks).
Here we go! :rolleyes:
Yeah, MANY people have told them that, including KevinB. They say that LMT only supplies parts (stocks, sights etc etc), not uppers. The Colt kool aid drinkers demand proof or pictures as they have not seen 'solicitations' for LMT CQBR uppers.
LMT makes just about everypart on there guns except for a few small parts that are made by Karl's other company
including barrels except for the rifleing, cromelining, rock creek does that part.
S-1
You ought to just answer all of the questions before we get cut and pastes from other sites...
S-1
You ought to just answer all of the questions before we get cut and pastes from other sites...
Nah.... There are members here that have first hand knowledge of what's issued and what's not, as they are users of said issued weapons.
I'll pass and let them deal with the Kool-Aid drinkers if they want to.
Oh no. The K-A phrase needs to be forbidden by the rules here- not because this place is biased but because that has become a serious insult lately...
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