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View Full Version : The Strange Odyssey Of The California Colt Rifle...



SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 17:53
A long time ago, an Army Sergeant in Kansas purchased a Colt 6920 LE rifle.

We received the rifle in a reasonable time frame (Obama had not yet been elected so it was still possible to get such things) and we shipped it out to his FFL on 11-25-2008. Everything seemed fine.

Then almost a month later I get a "Hey have you shipped my rifle yet?" email. I run the FedEx tracking number and the trail goes cold in Orlando a few days after I shipped it. I inform the customer of this and provide him the track number so he knows I'm not making anything up and tell him not to be too concerned as the package was fully insured.

I call FedEx and they confirm they have no idea where it is and I submit my claim for compensation. Now I should provide some background. I came to FedEx because I they provided a delivery option that wasn't dependent upon the internet. I had a few bad experiences with UPS resulting from computer problems interfering with shipments. Bottom line I wanted to be able to pick up the phone and schedule a pickup without involving my computer with the situation. FedEx provided me a log book and tracking number labels and I was all set.

I'd physically write in the address and note any declared values and I'd hand the page to the driver and keep a copy. And that is how I did things for about 5 years. No problems. At least, not until there was an actual problem.

It seems FedEx required me to check a box designated as "A.O.D." to get a customer signature. This had never been mentioned prior and nothing in the log book page indicates what "A.O.D." stands for. Now I printed labels similar to an address label that states "Signature Required" because I learned FedEx would simply leave packages out front if you didn't. I had one customer early on call me to explain when he got back home (he was a home based FFL) his package containing a $2,500.00 rifle was simply left on the porch. I called FedEx to find out how to prevent this in the future and they told me to simply make some "Signature Required" labels, at no time did anyone mention checking the "A.O.D." column in my log book. And everything seemed fine.

That was until the FedEx claims adjuster informed me that the package sent in this case was NOT INSURED since I didn't check the "A.O.D." column even though the insured amount column was completely filled out. Basically the fact that I didn't follow FedEx guidelines by checking "A.O.D." for Signature Required means they were not liable for the claim despite the fact that I had a Signature Required sticker and completely filled out the declared value column for purposes of insuring the claim. Basically FedEx customer service told me they were not going to honor the claim. It made no difference that I did everything exactly as instructed to by FedEx and nobody ever made me aware of the "A.O.D." requirement or even took the time to explain what it was.

I then asked about every other package I ever shipped insured. It seems, from day one, everything I ever shipped with FedEx was NOT INSURED despite the fact that I requested it to be insured. This means when I did the Barrett Group Buy involving rifle orders totaling about a quarter million dollars, everything shipped uninsured.

What I learned much, much later is this was all a case of FedEx ground subcontractors failing to enter the requested services into the system like they were supposed to. FedEx basically put the responsibility on them, they claimed they did nothing wrong and that was that, tough shit.

Long story short I went back and forth with FedEx for many, many months and the situation involving this rifle and another claim where the delivery was made with significant damage never really was resolved in a satisfactory manner. Bottom line I ended up being screwed for about $1,000.00 in a negotiated settlement. Could have been worse, I could have gotten nothing and been burned for two grand.

Then out of the blue I get a phone call from California. Seems some woman there who moved from Florida recently received my rifle along with her packages. This was something of a relief because if I could get the rifle back then I would about break even on the FedEx claim. She asked if there was any kind of reward and I told her if she got the rifle back to me I'd be happy to take care of her. I told her all she needed to do is ship the rifle to the address on my license and she would be legally returning a misrouted delivery to a licensed FFL and once we got it I'd be more than happy to give her $100 for her time and effort.

Everything seemed ok, but very quickly things changed. She wanted some money "up front" and indicated if I didn't she could probably make a lot more money selling the rifle locally. This started to feel like a shake down and went from good citizen helping me recover lost property to somebody who might have been in on it with the people who stole it from FedEx and it now looking to scam some reward money out of me.

Armed with her contact info such as where I could send reward money I contacted the local PD and explained the situation. Within 24 hours the local PD was in possession of the Colt rifle. I contacted my customer and brought him up to speed and he was almost as relieved as I was. The local PD informed me that all they needed was supporting paperwork such as a copy of my FFL and the invoice. I informed them that both were already in their possession in the box. I further provided them the FedEx track number and a scan from my log book showing the package was sent to Kansas and went missing in Orlando before arriving in California. This satisfied their concerns that the rifle may have been deliberately and illegally sent to a California customer.

I was told I would probably have the rifle within 2 weeks. That was early 2009. Soon after that during one of my daily "Has it shipped yet?" inquires I was advised the entire matter was turned over to ATF and given the name of the investigating agent. Now I was back to square one. I contacted the agent and basically submitted the same documentation previously provided. The agent was concerned why I hadn't contacted ATF regarding the lost rifle and I explained that FedEx told me the rifle wasn't really lost, just unaccounted for during the claim process. I would later learn this was just another move by FedEx to jerk me around for awhile with promises of the rifle turning up while they found a way to avoid paying the claim. Basically FedEx told me the rifle wasn't lost, it was just out of their system.

And when FedEx finally did acknowledge the rifle was "lost" and settled with a negotiated claim I got the call from California a few days later. So the rifle wasn't really lost yet, I knew where it was. It was my plan to contact ATF if the local PD was unsuccessful in recovering my property. Thankfully the local Cali PD supported everything I told ATF. ATF spent a reasonable amount of time investigating everything and satisfying themselves that their was no illegal activity and advised the local PD to release my property. That was about June of 2009.

I was told to issue a call tag and they would release my rifle for pickup. Just one problem. I no longer used FedEx for anything. It would be reasonable enough for me to drop them after all they put me through, but I actually even gave them another chance. I shipped a single package filling out the log book EXACTLY as advised including checking the "A.O.D." column and adding a Signature Required sticker. And when I called FedEx to track it, once again the local subcontractors failed to enter ANY of the requested services and the package shipped completely uninsured. I was done with FedEx from that point on. And my new carrier, UPS didn't issue "call tags" anymore. As amazing as it sounds there was no way for me to pay for the shipment in FL and have the driver in CA arrive at the PD with a shipping label, even if I chose an overnight option. UPS simply no longer offered that kind of service.

And the Cali PD had no way of accepting a credit card. Furthermore I was informed by virtually everyone at the PD that scheduling a UPS pickup was "not their job." I strongly suspected a case of "evil rifle" syndrome where nobody wanted to help anyone involved with something like that. I honestly feel I could have gotten more consideration if I was trying to get medical marijuana returned to me. Several months passed with me speaking to anyone and everyone trying to get any kind of help in having my released property returned to me.

Several frustrating months passed before I finally told them I was sending a check for an amount that should cover any shipping and pleaded with them for simple basic assistance. I guess having paid the PD by check somehow motivated somebody to put their donut down and have property schedule a UPS pickup. I received the rifle around Dec. of 2009 (more than a year after FedEx first lost it) and it shipped to my customer on 2-25-2010 following his return from deployment.

M4arc
05-20-10, 18:05
Holy shit!

That is truly an incredible story and very educational. I ship guns via FedEx because they're great to deal with but I'm going to watch my ass from now on.

randolph
05-20-10, 18:07
what a story :p

was the lady charged with anything ?

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 18:17
Holy shit!

That is truly an incredible story and very educational. I ship guns via FedEx because they're great to deal with but I'm going to watch my ass from now on.

The key difference is are you dealing with FedEx or FedEx Ground? If you ship ground you are actually dealing with a subcontractor. I was advised of this after the fact and FedEx suggested I ship overnight rather than ground and I would be much better protected.

Instead I just went with UPS.

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 18:17
what a story :p

was the lady charged with anything ?

No. She may or may not have been in on it somehow. I was more interested in recovering the rifle than going after long distance prosecution.

M4arc
05-20-10, 18:19
FedEx Ground.

Va_Dinger has a hell of a FedEx story too that actually led to several arrest.

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 18:24
FedEx Ground.

Va_Dinger has a hell of a FedEx story too that actually led to several arrest.


If you are doing things online you are probably safe. My problem resulted from my wanting to not be computer dependent and our local Ground subcontractor not wanting to take the time to enter any requested information.

The fact that things went out uninsured for years was really a wake up call. I thought FedEx would honor the claims in full on the basis of them dropping the ball on me all along. At one point I had a customer service manager basically stating I would get nothing on either claim. That really did it for me. I only gave them one more chance when another manager basically gave me something rather than nothing.

When it was "business as usual with no insurance entered" I closed my log book and never used them again. Could have been worse. With the rifle recovered and a partial claim payment I was only out a few hundred bucks.

Had they lost any of the Barrett shipments when I did that Group Buy I could have been well and truly screwed.

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 18:31
Oh and perhaps worst of all.

When I ran into a wall getting the rifle shipped after it was released to me, I had the idea of paying a Cali FFL to ship it to me.

So I went over to the GunBroker forums asking if anyone was a Cali registered FFL (preferably a SOT) and willing to arrange shipment of the rifle back to me for $100.

Because I don't have a 10,000 post count on that forum I was promptly declared an undercover ATF operative involved in a sting operation. That was fun.

Naxet1959
05-20-10, 18:44
It occurs to me that if you were shipping for years items checked insured and it wasn't actually insured, then maybe they owe you a refund for the insurance charges...

Sic 'em!

Iraqgunz
05-20-10, 18:46
Steyr,

That is phooking incredible. Is there anyway to verify when you ship FEDEX that they did in fact check the boxes and do as you requested or is it all automated and you can't see it?

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 18:55
It occurs to me that if you were shipping for years items checked insured and it wasn't actually insured, then maybe they owe you a refund for the insurance charges...

Sic 'em!

They don't owe me a refund because the requested shipping was never entered by the local subcontractor so I was never charged. When I got the invoices I never looked at the various codes to confirm what they all were and I simply assumed one of them was insurance.

So I saved a few bucks over the years on insurance, but I'd have rather paid it and been covered.

Artos
05-20-10, 20:07
hmmm...that explains it.

Being a home based guy, I have learned to always watch the tracking for ups and fedex regardless of what the shippers confirms regarding 'adult sig'...anyway, after having items left at the front door, I started putting up a sign on the door when shipments were known to touch down:

All Deliveries Require Adult Signature...no acceptions

Now, I'm on a first name basis w/ my ups guy but I still put the sign up in case he was off...never had a problem. Fedex STILL rings/knocks and by the time I get to the door, the package leaning up against the friggin sign and the truck (ground) is heading down the road. WTF??

Now it's making a little sense.

Belmont31R
05-20-10, 20:25
I had the same thing happened. Requested insurance on a package, package is lost, and then they said there was no insurance.



And while it certainly makes you feel better about dropping FedEx they don't care. For every person that drops FedEx to go to UPS someone drops UPS to go with FedEx.



What pisses me off is our damn mail man. If someone is parked on the street he just drives right past our mail box. Lazy fat **** can't walk 5 feet to the mail box? And he'll leave packages sitting against the post of my mail box. People complain about packages getting left on their porch...try 2 feet from the road in plain sight possibly for hours.

C4IGrant
05-20-10, 20:44
Oh and perhaps worst of all.

When I ran into a wall getting the rifle shipped after it was released to me, I had the idea of paying a Cali FFL to ship it to me.

So I went over to the GunBroker forums asking if anyone was a Cali registered FFL (preferably a SOT) and willing to arrange shipment of the rifle back to me for $100.

Because I don't have a 10,000 post count on that forum I was promptly declared an undercover ATF operative involved in a sting operation. That was fun.

This is great!



C4

MarshallDodge
05-20-10, 20:45
What a crazy tale of shipping gone wrong. The good part is that the rifle ended up back in good hands after all and we all learned something to watch out for when sending the packages. :cool:

Artos
05-20-10, 20:46
What pisses me off is our damn mail man. If someone is parked on the street he just drives right past our mail box. Lazy fat **** can't walk 5 feet to the mail box? And he'll leave packages sitting against the post of my mail box. People complain about packages getting left on their porch...try 2 feet from the road in plain sight possibly for hours.


he's got a large route...we got the same guy

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 20:58
Steyr,

That is phooking incredible. Is there anyway to verify when you ship FEDEX that they did in fact check the boxes and do as you requested or is it all automated and you can't see it?

Probably if you do it online. But I was trying to do things the old fashioned way and depended upon other people to actually enter the requested information.

I have no way to confirm if they did or did not except call after the fact. That is how I was able to determine they still didn't do it even AFTER I checked all the boxes and requested insured values the last time. Basically the shipment is only as good as the guy who picks it up and decides if he is gonna do his job.

SteyrAUG
05-20-10, 21:06
What a crazy tale of shipping gone wrong. The good part is that the rifle ended up back in good hands after all and we all learned something to watch out for when sending the packages. :cool:

The best thing of all (for me especially) was the customer was one of those rare breed of reasonable and fair men. Basically he stayed cool for more than a year after paying in full for a Colt LE rifle.

Had this been a typical "internet forums" customer within a week I'd have been branded a crook and a thief on every forum known to man with all my personal info posted so fellow members could make me pay.

Thankfully I had dealt with this guy before and he knew me to be a stand up guy who will come through one way or another (even if it might take some time).

In previous cases I had stored many rifles for him while he was deployed, apparently this is some kind of hardship a lot of dealer are unwilling to do though I never understood the problem of doing it. I do it as a courtesy for any member of the military every time.

And this guys next purchases were definitely "at cost" even though he told me none of it was my fault and I didn't owe him anything.

thopkins22
05-20-10, 21:16
Now, I'm on a first name basis w/ my ups guy but I still put the sign up in case he was off...never had a problem. Fedex STILL rings/knocks and by the time I get to the door, the package leaning up against the friggin sign and the truck (ground) is heading down the road. WTF??

Now it's making a little sense.

I almost always find reasons to support the companies that aren't union, but my UPS guy is significantly better than Fedex. Fedex(and maybe UPS,) drivers are paid by the delivery so it's not surprising to see them deliver packages without signature despite instructions to the contrary.

aquajon
05-20-10, 22:04
About 5% of all the FedEx ground packages that are sent to my home show "delivered" in their tracking system, but never actually make it to my front door.

Unfortunately, many merchants I buy from do not offer UPS as a shipping service.

DragonDoc
05-21-10, 09:24
I guess that explains why my local FFL that I use for transfers only uses UPS.

Rider79
05-21-10, 10:26
When I lived in a condo I had a UPS guy who was too lazy to do the steps with my ammo orders, so he'd put in the system that he tried to deliver them with no answer and no one to sign, then I'd have to go to the UPS hub to pick them up. Since I sleep during the day I thought I was just not hearing the doorbell. This happened for several orders. Then one day I happened to be on my porch when I see the UPS guy pull into the complex, and I was waiting on an ammo delivery that I had already got one notice on. So I sit in the living room, figuring it'll take a bit til he gets around to my unit but I want to make sure I hear the doorbell. A half hour goes by, no UPS guy and I have my blinds open to see him when he comes to the porch. So I get online to check the tracking number, and status says final attempt made to deliver, no answer or whatever. I'm furious, I call UPS, they give me the run around, they say the guy is already down the road blah blah blah. "Do you want to come to the hub to pick it up?" No I don't want to come to the ****ing hub in the middle of the hood to pick up something the asshole should have delivered to my door. I guess they got ahold of his supervisor because about a half hour later he was on my doorstep with the ammo.

John_Wayne777
05-21-10, 11:45
A good example of how shipping insurance works. The company will do anything possible to weasel out of paying a claim.

MadcapMagician
05-23-10, 10:33
Having worked full time and now part time in a shop, I will say that Fedex has the most goofy people working for them of the carriers. We ship out USPS and UPS, but receive from all three. The UPS guys look like Delta Force compared to private pulling KP that FedEx sends.

Case in point: We have a UPS driver that is always delivering tons of stuff including orders with 30+ cases of ammo. The one time the Fedex guy delivered some ammo he bitched like a baby and wanted us to help him carry it in.

Also, we have one Fedex guy card everyone in the store for adult signature items (including the obvious over 21 guys that are well in their 40s). Says its policy. Then the next two Fedex guys just shrug it off and would probably let the 9yr old girl in pigtails sign for it.

I'm not saying any of them are perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I just find UPS the best of the bunch and seem to have more professionals working for them.

skyugo
05-24-10, 00:34
wow...
i don't think i'll ever be using fedex again. :eek:

Fyrhazzrd
05-24-10, 08:30
If it were me, I would drag up every order I ever shipped; and sue them for every penny that you spent on insurance. They gladly excepted your money for insurance, when not one single item was actually insured. That sounds like fraud to me.

thopkins22
05-24-10, 09:08
If it were me, I would drag up every order I ever shipped; and sue them for every penny that you spent on insurance. They gladly excepted your money for insurance, when not one single item was actually insured. That sounds like fraud to me.
They don't owe him anything other than an apology because he never paid for insurance.


They don't owe me a refund because the requested shipping was never entered by the local subcontractor so I was never charged. When I got the invoices I never looked at the various codes to confirm what they all were and I simply assumed one of them was insurance.

So I saved a few bucks over the years on insurance, but I'd have rather paid it and been covered.

Fyrhazzrd
05-24-10, 10:53
oh okay, I guess I misread that part.

Wow that just plain sucks.

99HMC4
05-24-10, 11:29
I guess that explains why my local FFL that I use for transfers only uses UPS.

UPS is not much better. In fact Ive had more issues with ups than fedex. And BTW, fedex left my personal SCAR in plain sight at my front door too....

xfyrfiter
05-24-10, 21:50
You might try DHL, pretty much have better overall service than Fed Ups, don't know if they do firearms though.

SteyrAUG
05-24-10, 22:37
You might try DHL, pretty much have better overall service than Fed Ups, don't know if they do firearms though.


I've been using UPS without incident for awhile now. My deliveries are now computer dependent and I hate it, but I guess that is just the way the modern world works.