shawn c
05-22-10, 17:06
I wish this class existed 12 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of heartburn in trying to get things figured out. This was by far one of the most beneficial courses I have attended, bar none.
Larry Vickers figured out a long time ago what works in getting your pistol to do the things you want it to do in the most practical realm of all, the real world. He knows how to teach and is a very talented instructor. The uninitiated may feel a little put off by Larry’s, no-nonsense “this is what you need to do so you can forget about all this other stuff” approach. Keeping Larry’s background and how he came about learning what works and what doesn’t will quickly put things into perspective. I can’t give Larry enough credit and will sum it up by saying I got my money’s worth by 1100 hours on the first day. Seeing his Patrick Star impersonation and picking up some lesser known “Super Dave” stories were also worth the price of admission.
I had the pleasure of shooting next to Rob “Man Hands” Schoening. He has posted about the 1911 he built in Larry’s pistolsmithing class, and I had the opportunity to shoot it. His attention to detail in building both of the guns that he brought were outstanding.
DAY 1
Larry started off with a safety brief that dispelled some myths about how most other briefs were given. Larry also touched on the concepts that he believes in and where these ideas came from. Some of them run contrary to what is considered commonly accepted practices but make perfect sense once he explains them. Larry emphasizes that mastering trigger control is the single most important contributing factor to combat accuracy. He conducted drills to reinforce this point.
We started off by conducting dry fire drills with partners. We continued to work on our trigger control by doing several variations of “Ball and Dummy” Drills. We progressed into accuracy drills that were slow and deliberate. In between drills Larry would select a specific component that he feels contributes to what he termed “combat accuracy.” And would discuss it from his perspective. Larry feels very strongly about certain things and is not shy in telling you why he feels that way about it. He would cover such topics as stance, grip, equipment, sight alignment, etc. This is where Larry provided the biggest epiphany for me regarding sight alignment. I consider myself to be an above average shooter. Having said this, I don’t think that I have it figured out and really try to keep a very open mind when I attend training classes. I believe that this allowed me to pick up this gem of info regarding sight alignment which did wonders for shrinking the size of my shot group. It seemed so simple when Larry discussed it, that I can’t for the life of me understand why I wasn’t able to figure it out sooner. This is what Larry brings to the table. Simple, straight-forward advice that just plain works.
Larry uses the B8 replacement center as the primary target and has several great reasons for doing so. We were either shooting on this target or steel. Larry also has an opinion on what the appropriate mix should be for both target systems during a training session and what drills that you should always practice during that session. We moved on to a trigger reset drill and Larry showed the technique that he prefers over others. Larry showed us 3 different ready positions and discussed the merits of all three and stated that he believes that all 3 will cover every situation that you could find yourself in. Now that we had discussed trigger reset and practiced it a few times, Larry put us to the test by conducting a 10 second drill. Next Larry discussed the draw and demonstrated it. Larry covered reloads and did a little myth busting. He believes in using the slide release during reloads and feels that those who believe the “slingshot” method is the only way to execute a reload because that is all you will be able to execute under stress because it is a gross motor skill movement, either don’t understand how your body will react to stress or don’t understand what a gross motor skill movement is. To say that he feels strongly about this would be a slight understatement. We finished off the day by conducting stand-off drills on a 10” steel target. 1 dude made it out to 100 yards as Larry provided an example of adhering to the basics by hitting the steel, weapon-hand only with his Glock 17 from the same distance.
Everything that we learned in the first day provided the foundation off of what was to be learned in the following two days. Larry delivered as promised and even though this is considered a “basic” class, everyone left the class whooped, tired but with some new-found skills.
DAY 2
We started off day 2 reviewing some of the topics we covered from the day before. Larry holds you accountable for every round you fire. When we conducted the Ball and Dummy drills and if “El Snatcho” showed-up, we would have to remediate by conducting 5 perfect dry presses. He would also hold us accountable by having us paste the targets after each string of fire and keeping score during some of the drills that he ran.
Larry introduced some competition drills during Day 2 which continued into Day 3. These were both individual based competitions and partner and team based competitions. Having members of a training course shoot competition is a great way to introduce some stress into the course to see if you really do have the technique down or not. It’s one thing to be grooving in on the target in your own little bubble without anyone paying attention to you. It’s quite another to step-up and perform the technique correctly while standing in front of everyone in the class and Larry with your, a-hem, “friends” giving you the proper amount of motivation to assist you along the path. Larry is also a brutally honest man. If you screw-up he will call you on it but will also tell you what you did wrong and what you need to do to fix it. When we first started doing this, there were some who were able to step-up and perform in front of their peers and there were others who were not able to. The great thing about this class is that everyone was able to set their egos aside and take instruction well so that by the end of the class everyone felt somewhat comfortable in getting up in front of everyone and being able to do what was being asked.
After a review of Day 1, we moved onto some new techniques and drills. Larry covered the draw and what to look out for during the draw. Larry covered point shooting and was quick to give credit to Ken Hackathorn who he said that he learned the technique from. It is a very simple method and I now believe that there is a viable use for it outside just contact distance. We did a few drills and competitions using this method on steel with our sights taped over. Larry covered one-handed shooting both weapon and support hand only and dispelled some more myths about both. Larry covered both weapon hand only draw and reload and support hand only draw and reload. For safety reasons we did not shoot the support-hand only draw live fire. The rain that the Midwest is famous for during the spring months, showed-up. We were able to conduct some steel competitions while under cover which I am sure everyone appreciated. With everyone being a veteran of the always changing midwest weather, they had brought raingear with them but it is sure nice to not have to use it if you don’t have to. As Larry predicted the steel brought to light some bad habits. Some were able to work through these while others were not. This demonstrated why Larry limits the use of steel in his classes and confirms his reasons for doing so. After the rain let up Larry covered static turns and said that it was a transitional drill used to move from shooting from a static position to shooting while on the move. We worked through quite a few of these drills from various positions throughout the day. We finished up with Larry giving us another take on trigger reset. We broke for chow to come back for the night fire portion.
During the night fire portion of the course Larry discussed the various types of pistol sights available and the advantages and disadvantages inherent in all. Larry discussed the use of lasers and what he feels would be the correct application of them in a low to no light environment. Larry discussed the use of weapon mounted and hand held white lights. He discussed and demonstrated the techniques that he prefers and why he does and why he doesn’t recommend other specific techniques. Larry summed up that if you do not have tritium sights, a laser or a white light then you are forced to point shoot with all of the limitations that are inherent in point shooting. He was quick to point out that no technique will get you out of proper target identification before you make the decision to engage. We finished out the night fire portion with some drills. It was a long day and I was mentally exhausted with trying to process all of the information that was presented. Once S2 was done talking to imaginary people I was able to finally drift off to some much needed sleep.
DAY 3
Day 3 started off with a review of both Days 1& 2. We started off with the empty casing drill and ball and dummy to exercise the “El Snatcho” demons from our brain housing groups. Larry brought up an interesting point. He said that even though we have just been shown a better way to fire our pistols he said that it will not take hold until we practice it enough to allow it to overcome all of the bad habits we developed over the years. He said that if we were to get into a gunfight leaving the range today we would automatically revert back to the old way of doing business.
Larry covered malfunction clearance drills and why he advocates doing only two specific types of drills. He said that for the most part a non-diagnostic approach to malfunction clearance will work the best for the majority of people. However he also said that user awareness and experience can be used to diagnose on the fly to come up with the correct remedy. Larry also believes that as much if not more can be accomplished in drilling for malfunction clearances in dry fire vs. live fire. We ran some drills to reinforce these techniques.
Next Larry covered shooting on the move both forward and backward. We conducted drills to reinforce the techniques that Larry showed us. We did a Figure 8 drill and a Serpentine drill.
This pretty much finished up the course.
Larry is one of the best instructors that I have ever taken instruction from. His resume speaks for itself but setting that aside, Larry has all the positive qualities that make a great instructor. His personal integrity is without question and is one of the strongest traits that have allowed him to have the reputation that he has in the industry. He does not hold anything back when “sharing” his opinion that he has on a particular shooting technique. He also does not hold anything back in teaching you. You get the impression that he is giving you everything that he has learned and is now passing on throughout his career. He is really down to earth and can hold a conversation with you about anything. There is none of the stand-offish holier than thou attitude that other instructors display. He has a very understated sense of humor which I think you would need in this profession, or any profession for that matter. From a host’s standpoint, he was extremely easy to work with and I think that is because of the type of guy that he is. If you are in a position to host Larry for a course, do it. You will not regret it.
A shout out to all of the class participants. I have travelled throughout the country undertaking training and there is something to be said about the Midwest. People here are polite and friendly and seem to possess a great work ethic. I heard absolutely no whining whatsoever that I have heard at other courses. None. People in the class stepped-up and pasted and painted targets without being asked to do so. I think that is a direct reflection of their attitude as students and their enthusiasm for learning but more importantly to their own personal character. It was my distinct privilege to have the opportunity to train with each and every one in the class. I hope that I will have the opportunity to train with this group again.
A special thanks to my co-host, Dan Lentsch. He puts up with all of my polite requests for equipment and time to make gigs like this happen which is no small feat. Dan also, without hesitating, put up 5 dudes from the class at his house. Putting up with 5 stinky, dirty men from the class while having a wife and 2 small children in the house, one of which was sick, was almost too much to reasonably ask. Dan did this without having any heartburn over doing it. Dan also put on the chauffeurs hat and provided transportation for the duration of the class. Thanks also to the Ottumwa Police Department for allowing us to host the course at their range.
If you have a chance to take training with Larry, I would do whatever you need to do to throw in on it. It is something that you do not want to miss. If you do, there will always be something missing in your skill set that only Larry can provide. The best endorsement that I can give is that we are having Larry back for another course and will continue to do so.
Larry Vickers figured out a long time ago what works in getting your pistol to do the things you want it to do in the most practical realm of all, the real world. He knows how to teach and is a very talented instructor. The uninitiated may feel a little put off by Larry’s, no-nonsense “this is what you need to do so you can forget about all this other stuff” approach. Keeping Larry’s background and how he came about learning what works and what doesn’t will quickly put things into perspective. I can’t give Larry enough credit and will sum it up by saying I got my money’s worth by 1100 hours on the first day. Seeing his Patrick Star impersonation and picking up some lesser known “Super Dave” stories were also worth the price of admission.
I had the pleasure of shooting next to Rob “Man Hands” Schoening. He has posted about the 1911 he built in Larry’s pistolsmithing class, and I had the opportunity to shoot it. His attention to detail in building both of the guns that he brought were outstanding.
DAY 1
Larry started off with a safety brief that dispelled some myths about how most other briefs were given. Larry also touched on the concepts that he believes in and where these ideas came from. Some of them run contrary to what is considered commonly accepted practices but make perfect sense once he explains them. Larry emphasizes that mastering trigger control is the single most important contributing factor to combat accuracy. He conducted drills to reinforce this point.
We started off by conducting dry fire drills with partners. We continued to work on our trigger control by doing several variations of “Ball and Dummy” Drills. We progressed into accuracy drills that were slow and deliberate. In between drills Larry would select a specific component that he feels contributes to what he termed “combat accuracy.” And would discuss it from his perspective. Larry feels very strongly about certain things and is not shy in telling you why he feels that way about it. He would cover such topics as stance, grip, equipment, sight alignment, etc. This is where Larry provided the biggest epiphany for me regarding sight alignment. I consider myself to be an above average shooter. Having said this, I don’t think that I have it figured out and really try to keep a very open mind when I attend training classes. I believe that this allowed me to pick up this gem of info regarding sight alignment which did wonders for shrinking the size of my shot group. It seemed so simple when Larry discussed it, that I can’t for the life of me understand why I wasn’t able to figure it out sooner. This is what Larry brings to the table. Simple, straight-forward advice that just plain works.
Larry uses the B8 replacement center as the primary target and has several great reasons for doing so. We were either shooting on this target or steel. Larry also has an opinion on what the appropriate mix should be for both target systems during a training session and what drills that you should always practice during that session. We moved on to a trigger reset drill and Larry showed the technique that he prefers over others. Larry showed us 3 different ready positions and discussed the merits of all three and stated that he believes that all 3 will cover every situation that you could find yourself in. Now that we had discussed trigger reset and practiced it a few times, Larry put us to the test by conducting a 10 second drill. Next Larry discussed the draw and demonstrated it. Larry covered reloads and did a little myth busting. He believes in using the slide release during reloads and feels that those who believe the “slingshot” method is the only way to execute a reload because that is all you will be able to execute under stress because it is a gross motor skill movement, either don’t understand how your body will react to stress or don’t understand what a gross motor skill movement is. To say that he feels strongly about this would be a slight understatement. We finished off the day by conducting stand-off drills on a 10” steel target. 1 dude made it out to 100 yards as Larry provided an example of adhering to the basics by hitting the steel, weapon-hand only with his Glock 17 from the same distance.
Everything that we learned in the first day provided the foundation off of what was to be learned in the following two days. Larry delivered as promised and even though this is considered a “basic” class, everyone left the class whooped, tired but with some new-found skills.
DAY 2
We started off day 2 reviewing some of the topics we covered from the day before. Larry holds you accountable for every round you fire. When we conducted the Ball and Dummy drills and if “El Snatcho” showed-up, we would have to remediate by conducting 5 perfect dry presses. He would also hold us accountable by having us paste the targets after each string of fire and keeping score during some of the drills that he ran.
Larry introduced some competition drills during Day 2 which continued into Day 3. These were both individual based competitions and partner and team based competitions. Having members of a training course shoot competition is a great way to introduce some stress into the course to see if you really do have the technique down or not. It’s one thing to be grooving in on the target in your own little bubble without anyone paying attention to you. It’s quite another to step-up and perform the technique correctly while standing in front of everyone in the class and Larry with your, a-hem, “friends” giving you the proper amount of motivation to assist you along the path. Larry is also a brutally honest man. If you screw-up he will call you on it but will also tell you what you did wrong and what you need to do to fix it. When we first started doing this, there were some who were able to step-up and perform in front of their peers and there were others who were not able to. The great thing about this class is that everyone was able to set their egos aside and take instruction well so that by the end of the class everyone felt somewhat comfortable in getting up in front of everyone and being able to do what was being asked.
After a review of Day 1, we moved onto some new techniques and drills. Larry covered the draw and what to look out for during the draw. Larry covered point shooting and was quick to give credit to Ken Hackathorn who he said that he learned the technique from. It is a very simple method and I now believe that there is a viable use for it outside just contact distance. We did a few drills and competitions using this method on steel with our sights taped over. Larry covered one-handed shooting both weapon and support hand only and dispelled some more myths about both. Larry covered both weapon hand only draw and reload and support hand only draw and reload. For safety reasons we did not shoot the support-hand only draw live fire. The rain that the Midwest is famous for during the spring months, showed-up. We were able to conduct some steel competitions while under cover which I am sure everyone appreciated. With everyone being a veteran of the always changing midwest weather, they had brought raingear with them but it is sure nice to not have to use it if you don’t have to. As Larry predicted the steel brought to light some bad habits. Some were able to work through these while others were not. This demonstrated why Larry limits the use of steel in his classes and confirms his reasons for doing so. After the rain let up Larry covered static turns and said that it was a transitional drill used to move from shooting from a static position to shooting while on the move. We worked through quite a few of these drills from various positions throughout the day. We finished up with Larry giving us another take on trigger reset. We broke for chow to come back for the night fire portion.
During the night fire portion of the course Larry discussed the various types of pistol sights available and the advantages and disadvantages inherent in all. Larry discussed the use of lasers and what he feels would be the correct application of them in a low to no light environment. Larry discussed the use of weapon mounted and hand held white lights. He discussed and demonstrated the techniques that he prefers and why he does and why he doesn’t recommend other specific techniques. Larry summed up that if you do not have tritium sights, a laser or a white light then you are forced to point shoot with all of the limitations that are inherent in point shooting. He was quick to point out that no technique will get you out of proper target identification before you make the decision to engage. We finished out the night fire portion with some drills. It was a long day and I was mentally exhausted with trying to process all of the information that was presented. Once S2 was done talking to imaginary people I was able to finally drift off to some much needed sleep.
DAY 3
Day 3 started off with a review of both Days 1& 2. We started off with the empty casing drill and ball and dummy to exercise the “El Snatcho” demons from our brain housing groups. Larry brought up an interesting point. He said that even though we have just been shown a better way to fire our pistols he said that it will not take hold until we practice it enough to allow it to overcome all of the bad habits we developed over the years. He said that if we were to get into a gunfight leaving the range today we would automatically revert back to the old way of doing business.
Larry covered malfunction clearance drills and why he advocates doing only two specific types of drills. He said that for the most part a non-diagnostic approach to malfunction clearance will work the best for the majority of people. However he also said that user awareness and experience can be used to diagnose on the fly to come up with the correct remedy. Larry also believes that as much if not more can be accomplished in drilling for malfunction clearances in dry fire vs. live fire. We ran some drills to reinforce these techniques.
Next Larry covered shooting on the move both forward and backward. We conducted drills to reinforce the techniques that Larry showed us. We did a Figure 8 drill and a Serpentine drill.
This pretty much finished up the course.
Larry is one of the best instructors that I have ever taken instruction from. His resume speaks for itself but setting that aside, Larry has all the positive qualities that make a great instructor. His personal integrity is without question and is one of the strongest traits that have allowed him to have the reputation that he has in the industry. He does not hold anything back when “sharing” his opinion that he has on a particular shooting technique. He also does not hold anything back in teaching you. You get the impression that he is giving you everything that he has learned and is now passing on throughout his career. He is really down to earth and can hold a conversation with you about anything. There is none of the stand-offish holier than thou attitude that other instructors display. He has a very understated sense of humor which I think you would need in this profession, or any profession for that matter. From a host’s standpoint, he was extremely easy to work with and I think that is because of the type of guy that he is. If you are in a position to host Larry for a course, do it. You will not regret it.
A shout out to all of the class participants. I have travelled throughout the country undertaking training and there is something to be said about the Midwest. People here are polite and friendly and seem to possess a great work ethic. I heard absolutely no whining whatsoever that I have heard at other courses. None. People in the class stepped-up and pasted and painted targets without being asked to do so. I think that is a direct reflection of their attitude as students and their enthusiasm for learning but more importantly to their own personal character. It was my distinct privilege to have the opportunity to train with each and every one in the class. I hope that I will have the opportunity to train with this group again.
A special thanks to my co-host, Dan Lentsch. He puts up with all of my polite requests for equipment and time to make gigs like this happen which is no small feat. Dan also, without hesitating, put up 5 dudes from the class at his house. Putting up with 5 stinky, dirty men from the class while having a wife and 2 small children in the house, one of which was sick, was almost too much to reasonably ask. Dan did this without having any heartburn over doing it. Dan also put on the chauffeurs hat and provided transportation for the duration of the class. Thanks also to the Ottumwa Police Department for allowing us to host the course at their range.
If you have a chance to take training with Larry, I would do whatever you need to do to throw in on it. It is something that you do not want to miss. If you do, there will always be something missing in your skill set that only Larry can provide. The best endorsement that I can give is that we are having Larry back for another course and will continue to do so.