First AR Dilema, 16" vs 14.5" Options

[BMcDonald7]

I've been doing a ton of reading on the website, looked at the Chart several times and am now almost ready to put together my first AR.

I have decided on my Lower, a Spikes Tactical Complete Lower on their website Magpul MOE Stock and Grip. I can get all of this for $330. From what I have seen it is the best deal including all of the Magpul furniture I want.

Where I am torn is on my upper. I have narrowed it down to basically 2 options.

1. BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense OmegaX 9 Handguard, Permanent Flashider to make it non NFA. BCM BCG and charging handle. This comes to $889.

2. Spike's Tactical 16" Midlength LE Upper w/9" BAR Rail (5.56). Comes with the Spikes BCG and charging handle for $660.

So that is where I am stuck. I am not looking for a BCM vs Spikes debate as I have seen from other threads how quickly those get out of hand. I am comfortable with both and think they make good enough products for my first AR. I like the look of the 14.5" better with the DD OmegaX 9, however I am not sure if i like it more than $229 over the 16". I am just wondering if I will regret going with the 16" wishing I had a lighter and shorter barrel. If the Spikes was a 14.5" i would take it in a heart beat, so my main issue is whether that extra 1.5" is going to bug me. I could use the $229 on a quality light and mount. I'll invest in good optics later.

For those of you with both 14.5" and 16" AR's is there really that big of a difference? I intend to use the weapon as my main Home Defense weapon and for the range and training classes. I like in an urban jungle so I don't think the extra range of the 16" is an issue.

Thank you for your help! This forum is a wealth of information....sometimes it can be tough to finally make the choice :).

[FrankRochester]

Go with the BCM 14.5 Middy...

[Failure2Stop]

I would not recommend a pinned FH on a first AR.
They severly limit your ability to change hardware should you decide to do so as you gain experience and proficiency.
I highly recommend BCM 16" middies. I have one and have seen numerous others through classes, they make up a strong percentage of guns that survive training classes and high-density practice.

[kmrtnsn]

I'd recommend that you get a 16" barrel. 14.5" offers no practical advantage over 16". It does offer a lot of hassles; R&R'ing a permanent flash suppressor is a hassle, failing to permanently reattach makes you subject to BATFE headaches, etc., all for what, 1.5 inches? I've bought from both Spike's and BCM, both are fine companies and you'll do well with either.

[Skyyr]

and BCM is a notch above Spikes in quality.

Just "...a notch"? lol

[LOKNLOD]

Allow me to further reiterate: BCM midlength is the way to go for sure, but 16" is a far, far better choice for 1st AR. No matter how much you've studied and read and planned, there'll be things later that you want to change or improve and sure enough that darned pinned FS will be in the way.

[marco.g]

i went ahead with a 14.5" bcm middy with perm'd fsc556 (NY awb :rolleyes:). Have not had a chance to shoot it yet as its not complete, but will report by end of the week hopefully.

eta: this is my 1st AR

[FrankRochester]

i went ahead with a 14.5" bcm middy with perm'd fsc556 (NY awb :rolleyes:). Have not had a chance to shoot it yet as its not complete, but will report by end of the week hopefully.

eta: this is my 1st AR

That's the way I went.. but with a D-D 14.5" Middy barrel. Gonna do a Troy TRX Extreme 13" rail with it..

[C4IGrant]

I've been doing a ton of reading on the website, looked at the Chart several times and am now almost ready to put together my first AR.

I like the look of the 14.5" better with the DD OmegaX 9, however I am not sure if i like it more than $229 over the 16".

There is a big difference in the barrel steel and testing done to both the bolt and barrel. So you really are not comparing apples to apples.

I would go with the 16" LW Middy from BCM. Permanently attached FS's are generally a bad idea.



C4

[scottd907]

yeah i dont think you'll be able to notice much difference between them. Theres plenty of factors that go into where that bullet lands or hits, 2 inches isnt going to be one of them i think.

Although i have notice in shooting "longer" distance between a 16" m4 barrel and a 16"bullbarrel. but that wasnt part of your question.

Great choice on the 14.5 for home defense. Have fun and post some pics when you can

[crusader377]

First off, you have two great options and you really can't go wrong with either configuration. Myself, I would buy the best quality carbine that you feel comfortable purchasing and not spend the money on accessories which you can pick up later. For example you can buy either a BCM or DD upper with a standard handguard for equal or less money than the spikes with a rail. I would go this route and later customize it to you liking after putting some rounds downrange.

In terms of configuration, I would go with either a BCM/DD 16" middy or one of the 16" BCM LW midlength uppers.

That said, I also think the Spikes upper is a very good product and should work just fine for you as well.

[BMcDonald7]

There is a big difference in the barrel steel and testing done to both the bolt and barrel. So you really are not comparing apples to apples.

I would go with the 16" LW Middy from BCM. Permanently attached FS's are generally a bad idea.



C4

I was also interested in the Pencil DD barrels I saw on your website. My thoughts were that if I was going for a 16" the Spikes was the best value. The prospect of a 14.5" seemed like the only way it would make it worth it to invest another $250+. I didn't think how much of a hassle it would be with the pinned FS. If I had the rail I was happy with, and I really like the look of the DD Omegax 9, would i ever need to remove it if I wasn't going to change the rail?

I've thought about just getting the upper and barrel without a rail already installed but I don't know much about matching the rail to the gas block and installation. I would rather not have to deal with removing the front sight and messing with it. I like the Magpul MOE handguards but right now they only have them for the carbine and I want a middy.

Thanks for all of your replies....got me contemplated more options now :).

[fls9497]

If you really like the set-up of the 14.5" upper and plan not to replace the parts... then buy it. But keep in mind if you do want to change anything from the receiver to the flash hider/break, you will have more hassles. Like paying a gunsmith to replace the rail, front sight (if it has a regular post) and flash hider. This is because of the permanently pinned/welded flash hider/break.

With the 16" upper, you will have better options replacing anything if you decide to do that in the future. Nothing is permanently welded or pinned. You can do the work yourself with proper tools.

[justin_247]

Get a BCM or DD 16" midlength and don't look back. If not that, then a BCM or DD 16" carbine.

You cannot go wrong with BCM or DD.

[Magic_Salad0892]

The first AR I ever bought was an 11.5''. (KAC. I'd been saving up for firearms and equipment since I was 18.)

Now, that's because I'm in love with SBRs. Now if I had to debate on 16'', or 14.5'' I'd run a 16'' (for a FIRST AR). Even if I feel their a little obnoxious, having a permanent FH is a pain in the ass.


(Second AR I bought was a DDM4 with 14.5'' and perm' FH, I sold it to my sister because it was inconveniencing as shit. Then bought an LWRCi)

[jp0319]

First off on the lower there are a couple of better choices than spikes in my opinion. You can order complete BCM lowers from Grant for $350, or build a complete DD lower on Grants site configured your way for about $370 depending on components chosen. You can also order complete lowers from Daniel Defense eithe DDXV type $339 or DDM4 type for $439. All of these are infinately better in my opinion than Spikes and for about the same price. On the upper I think the BCM 14.5" middy is a good choice. Or as others have stated the BCM 16" LW upper, or Grant could build you a custom upper to your specs for a good price. Daniel Defense will also build a custom upper (with their parts) for you I ordered a "clone" of the BCM 14.5" Middy but with a DD CHF barrel and DD Upper. I am having a AAC FH permed on this.

[C4IGrant]

I was also interested in the Pencil DD barrels I saw on your website. My thoughts were that if I was going for a 16" the Spikes was the best value. The prospect of a 14.5" seemed like the only way it would make it worth it to invest another $250+. I didn't think how much of a hassle it would be with the pinned FS. If I had the rail I was happy with, and I really like the look of the DD Omegax 9, would i ever need to remove it if I wasn't going to change the rail?

I've thought about just getting the upper and barrel without a rail already installed but I don't know much about matching the rail to the gas block and installation. I would rather not have to deal with removing the front sight and messing with it. I like the Magpul MOE handguards but right now they only have them for the carbine and I want a middy.

Thanks for all of your replies....got me contemplated more options now :).


That's just it. Male AR shooters change components on their weapons like women buy shoes.

By going pinned, you are locked into that config. Right now as a new shooter, you really don't know what you like and what you don't.


C4

[BMcDonald7]

First off on the lower there are a couple of better choices than spikes in my opinion. You can order complete BCM lowers from Grant for $350, or build a complete DD lower on Grants site configured your way for about $370 depending on components chosen. You can also order complete lowers from Daniel Defense eithe DDXV type $339 or DDM4 type for $439. All of these are infinately better in my opinion than Spikes and for about the same price. On the upper I think the BCM 14.5" middy is a good choice. Or as others have stated the BCM 16" LW upper, or Grant could build you a custom upper to your specs for a good price. Daniel Defense will also build a custom upper (with their parts) for you I ordered a "clone" of the BCM 14.5" Middy but with a DD CHF barrel and DD Upper. I am having a AAC FH permed on this.

I was just looking at Grant's site and the DD Lower. With everything I wanted added to it I was coming in at $371. I really like the look of the DD lower and the flared mag well. Now I got another option for the lower. I am almost leaning towards the 14.5" or 16" LW barrel by either BCM or DD. I need to sell my truck first for the funds but i think i will be giving Grants shop a call in the not too distant future.

This rifle will likely be my only rifle for a long time, that's why I want to make sure I get what I want now and not regret it later. I've done some searches on 14.5" vs 16" barrels to read all the pro's and con's.

[rob_s]

I would not recommend a pinned FH on a first AR.
They severly limit your ability to change hardware should you decide to do so as you gain experience and proficiency.
I highly recommend BCM 16" middies. I have one and have seen numerous others through classes, they make up a strong percentage of guns that survive training classes and high-density practice.

Exactly right.

IMHO the CM Standard 16" Mid Length (LIGHT WEIGHT) Upper Receiver Group (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm) is the "A answer" for anyone looking to get into ARs and willing to assemble from scratch. Installing a set of Cavarms or RRA plastic handguards (at least until the MOE are available), a Magpul MBUS (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MBUS-Rear-Back-Up-Iron-Sight-Black-p/mag246%20black.htm) rear sight, and an Aimpoint C3 in ADM mount (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APC3AD68&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dc3%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html) is the best thing going. Add a sling (I'm partial to the BFG Victory (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=victory&Search.x=0&Search.y=0), magazines, and ammo, and get to an entry-level training class like Randy Cain (http://www.guntactics.com/)'s Carbine 1.

[sammage]

Ditto with Rob on the BCM LW middy. Just got one last month, and balances nicely. Feels great to have the extra real estate of the mid length. DSG Arms has Cav Arms mid length handguards (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CAVC8BLACK.aspx) for $20. The fit and finish of them is really nice, I was leery of the RRA ones on BCM's site. You can't go wrong with a Vickers sling either.

[DJP]

That's just it. Male AR shooters change components on their weapons like women buy shoes.

By going pinned, you are locked into that config. Right now as a new shooter, you really don't know what you like and what you don't.


C4

I am also leaning towards 14.5. What accessories will I be locked into? can I not switch out hand guards?

[Failure2Stop]

I am also leaning towards 14.5. What accessories will I be locked into? can I not switch out hand guards?

Uh, read the rest of the thread.

[BMcDonald7]

Given everyone's advice I am probably going to go with:

1. A BCM 16" LW with DD OmegaX 9 with BCM BCG
2. DD Lower by Grants.

I went to my local range where they sell full Daniel Defense Rifles and I was really impressed with the look and feel of it compared to an M&P 15 MOE. I really liked the lower and OmegaX 9 rail on it.

Now I just need to sell my truck so I will have the funds :-).

[Magic_Salad0892]

Here's the build my sister did with her first AR. (My old DDM4.)

Daniel Defence M4 (Upper and Lower) 14.5''
Daniel Defence LPK
LMT Two-Stage Trigger
Magpul MIAD
LMT SOPMOD
SureFire Muzzle Brake - Perm Attached (I think ADCO did it, not sure though)
SureFire FA556AR Suppressor
KAC RAS Free Float Carbine Rail
Removal of FSB
Noveske Switchblock
KAC Micro Sights

I think she build that for all under $2300 (not including suppressor, or brake)

I'll ask what it cost her, but it's the coolest 14.5'' I've ever shot.

Feels a little obnoxious with the length that the suppressor adds though.

[sjopling]

Given everyone's advice I am probably going to go with:

1. A BCM 16" LW with DD OmegaX 9 with BCM BCG
2. DD Lower by Grants.

I went to my local range where they sell full Daniel Defense Rifles and I was really impressed with the look and feel of it compared to an M&P 15 MOE. I really liked the lower and OmegaX 9 rail on it.

Now I just need to sell my truck so I will have the funds :-).

Good choice. I just got one of there standard midlength and love it. Let us know how you like the LW.

[orionz06]

Permanently attached FS's are generally a bad idea.



I am also leaning towards 14.5. What accessories will I be locked into? can I not switch out hand guards?

If you are not going to SBR it you are going to need to be 16" anyway. Why not make that extra length have purpose

[Spade]

Just my $.02 I have a 14.5 Noveske. I love the rifle but if I had to do it over I would go with the 16" In my opinion I have not gained anything with the shorter barrel & welded comp. Not not to mention the limits with finding after market rails.