View Full Version : The Current Oil Situation Is Becoming Our Nightmare And Obama's Legacy
The health and security of the Gulf of Mexico are the responsibility of the United States, not British Petroleum. The administration has waited over a month for a cooperate entity to save something they do not own nor have jurisdiction over. They just have a permit to work there.
But to think after all these years they never even had a plan, in fact it appears no one did.
This will expose these unfathomably inept fools for exactly who they are. And it will infuriate the far left, especially the hard core environmentalists. The implications will almost certainly be as devastating to this clueless President as they will be to the coastline.
I hate seeing all that wildlife die a slow death while bureaucrats bicker.
you dont know much about offshore drilling & exploration, do you ?
please, pray tell do you expect the govt. to do that the most knowledgeable people in the world in this topic, arnt ?
you dont know much about offshore drilling & exploration, do you ?
please, pray tell do you expect the govt. to do that the most knowledgeable people in the world in this topic, arnt ?
I think you may have missed my point. There was never a time when I pondered as to how qualified or unqualified our government was to deal with such a situation on this type of level until now, much like most here I would imagine.
But that has very, very little to do with the fact that in the long run that body of water is our responsibility as a nation, not B.P.'s. as a company. This on several levels.
Outlander Systems
05-24-10, 20:00
My primary worry is that offshore drilling will be banned. No one is discussing to economic ramifications should this become a "worst-case scenario".
Seems like a covert attack on the US no matter what the circumstances surrounding the incident and the seeming handwaving since then. It's ****ed my plans to fish the saltwater marsh areas this summer and fall that's for damned sure!
And BP-Amoco won't be paying the bulk of the clean up effort, either. We South Louisianians are getting keel hauled with the loss of industry, health and recreation. The Crown Agents who run BP-Amoco will try to quietly shirk their responsibility - but they are most certainly not alone here.
Rant Mode Off
Outlander Systems
05-24-10, 20:07
Mjolnir, I'm of the folks who believe the output is being grossly underemphasised by an order of magnitudes.
Rand Paul says the administration is going too tough on BP.
Bobby Jindal is ready create his own artificial sea wall.
And Limbaugh thinks that oil is as natural as sea water and the ocean will take care of itself.
:confused:
Mjolnir, I'm of the folks who believe the output is being grossly underemphasised by an order of magnitudes.
Same here, brother. Typical of both transnational corps and gov'ts the world over. Liars.
Outlander Systems
05-24-10, 20:14
http://media-files.gather.com/images/d154/d366/d746/d224/d96/f3/full.jpg
Yup! Looks like "1000 BPD" to me!
:rolleyes:
Relax. It's no big deal. There's an easy solution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5SxX2EntEo
And Limbaugh thinks that oil is as natural as sea water and the ocean will take care of itself.
I remember him going on about this as well a couple years ago. Stuck in my mind that he believed more oil leaked from fissures in the ocean floor each year than we have spilled in our existence as humans.
He may be right often, but he would appear to be very wrong in that particular assessment. The gulf does not appear to be digesting that oil efficiently to say the least.
thopkins22
05-24-10, 20:36
As a libertarian who fishes the saltwater flats, grew up in the oil industry, and changed my degree from finance to petroleum engineering let me say that the whole freaking thing sucks.
I personally know three engineers that are in the same consulting firm as my stepfather, who are spending close to eighteen hours a day in conference rooms brainstorming, and have been for the past month. Their per diem is insane, as are the funds BP has authorized them to use for a solution. They aren't sparing any expenses trying to stop this thing right freaking now. Did BP spare expenses before hand? I dunno.
With that said, this is so beyond anything our government is, has ever been, or will ever be capable of dealing with. The brainpower being deployed on this would put NASA to shame.
So what's going to happen? Utter devastation to the wildlife along the gulf coast is a given, and the thousands of businesses that exist because of it. It's likely that incredibly expensive and ineffective regulations will further burden oil companies, hurting the consumers here and helping countries that export to us like Mexico, Venezuela, and the Middle East.
Hopefully, but not likely, Obama will lose his job(yay!) but unfortunately for Americans who desperately need a little bit of intelligence to be displayed by the rest of the voting populace, his job will be lost for the wrong reasons. It will be because "the federal government didn't do anything."
I tend to agree with Rand Paul that the executive/legislative branches of government should go hard on BP...let the courts do it.
Sure, lots of oil leaks into the oceans every year naturally. It is also slow and spread out over the enite body of water. Rush can be an idiot sometime.
thopkins22
05-24-10, 20:45
I decided to remove a bunch of unsavory comments about Limbaugh and the damage I believe he does to the right. Comments like he made about natural pollution are perfect examples.
Is there an incredible amount of natural pollution and oil seepage? Sure, but this is on a different scale entirely. When Alonso Ojeda made a return trip to the new world after coming over with Columbus, he found what is now Lake Maracaibo. They were able to tar their boats with the incredible amount of oil seeping up. And yet the Venezuelans blame the gringos for the pollution there.
The health and security of the Gulf of Mexico are the responsibility of the United States, not British Petroleum. The administration has waited over a month for a cooperate entity to save something they do not own nor have jurisdiction over. They just have a permit to work there.
But to think after all these years they never even had a plan, in fact it appears no one did.
This will expose these unfathomably inept fools for exactly who they are. And it will infuriate the far left, especially the hard core environmentalists. The implications will almost certainly be as devastating to this clueless President as they will be to the coastline.
I hate seeing all that wildlife die a slow death while bureaucrats bicker.
You could be right, but the sad thing (other than the devistation this incident is causing) is that it's making more lean to the left and those that were already on the left go beyond the point of no return. I've already seen U.S. citizens claiming things like "Hugo Chavez was right", "Socialism not Capitalism", etc.
Outlander Systems
05-24-10, 20:57
Too Many Secrets: Media ignores Goldman Sachs' ties to Corexit dispersant
http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2010/05/media-ignores-goldman-sachs-ties-to-corexit-dispersant.html
thopkins22
05-24-10, 21:01
Too Many Secrets: Media ignores Goldman Sachs' ties to Corexit dispersant
http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2010/05/media-ignores-goldman-sachs-ties-to-corexit-dispersant.html
Very, very shady. Then again, I didn't expect the EPA to let them use something safe or effective.
I've already seen U.S. citizens claiming things like "Hugo Chavez was right", "Socialism not Capitalism", etc.
I've got news for those people. Russia, China, and Mexico have been drilling and will be drilling in the Gulf for quite some time. Let me assure you, that those countries don't give a damn what happens to our coast.
The USA should do a better job of enforcing the use of preventative measures and find a workable solution for if/when another spill happens. And then, drill baby, drill.
Hopefully, but not likely, Obama will lose his job(yay!) but unfortunately for Americans who desperately need a little bit of intelligence to be displayed by the rest of the voting populace, his job will be lost for the wrong reasons. It will be because "the federal government didn't do anything."
Well here's the thing...the government, under Obama and also anyone relevant prior, have and still do enable numerous operations established in their territories which are clearly unmanageable as well as ecologically devastating. If we can't fix it when it breaks, we shouldn't be doing it at that depth. I see no way around this logic.
And I find it hard to believe that after all these years and all this technological development folks were still just sitting around content to hope that there is never such a deep leak. But no matter who is most to blame in the end, it will be the administrations fault for not protecting it's own.
The loss of marine life as well as livelihoods will be something we will always remember. Sadly this may well be only the beginning.
The health and security of the Gulf of Mexico are the responsibility of the United States, not British Petroleum. The administration has waited over a month for a cooperate entity to save something they do not own nor have jurisdiction over. They just have a permit to work there.
But to think after all these years they never even had a plan, in fact it appears no one did.
This will expose these unfathomably inept fools for exactly who they are. And it will infuriate the far left, especially the hard core environmentalists. The implications will almost certainly be as devastating to this clueless President as they will be to the coastline.
I hate seeing all that wildlife die a slow death while bureaucrats bicker.
If I had my way they soon would not be able to afford to operate in the USA. You're right. It's our responsibility. Get there asses out of it. And if any spills contaminate our lands I tow or sink your rig and detain those aboard.
thopkins22
05-24-10, 21:44
If we can't fix it when it breaks, we shouldn't be doing it at that depth. I see no way around this logic.
Agreed, except it was truly extraordinary that all the redundant systems in place to prevent such a disaster failed simultaneously. The location of the leaks is pretty bizarre as well.
Deep water drilling is going to be crucial in being able to give the Middle East the middle finger. Never mind "energy independence," that's a pipe dream. Deep water wells everywhere from the coast of Brazil to the Gulf will be important to reasonable energy costs in the future.
As soon as I discover a better solution I'll retire.:cool:
thopkins22
05-24-10, 21:46
And guys let's not forget the lives lost here. Good men died trying to stop this thing before it was too late.
rickrock305
05-24-10, 22:05
The health and security of the Gulf of Mexico are the responsibility of the United States, not British Petroleum. The administration has waited over a month for a cooperate entity to save something they do not own nor have jurisdiction over. They just have a permit to work there.
But to think after all these years they never even had a plan, in fact it appears no one did.
the Coast Guard was on the scene almost immediately. And yes, they did have a plan for this exact scenario.
I hate seeing all that wildlife die a slow death while bureaucrats bicker.
Drill baby, drill!
thopkins22
05-24-10, 22:19
the Coast Guard was on the scene almost immediately.
Doing a collective nothing.
I've got news for those people. Russia, China, and Mexico have been drilling and will be drilling in the Gulf for quite some time. Let me assure you, that those countries don't give a damn what happens to our coast.
Really? Please tell me which companies are drilling in the Gulf that you speak of?
Thompkin's22 you are the only one that is speaking with even a semblance of knowledge on the subject, and it is good to have a roughneck on board here.
People don't understand the enormity of the situation, and the complexity of the failure that took place. It is easy to look at this like Valdez and shake fingers at this company, that administration, ext. However in the case of Valdez you had human error, a gross error that changed the largest, most profitable corporation on the planets entire operating structure as a result. In the case of the Horizon you had an extraordinary failure, that like you mentioned caused all of the fail safes to go out at the same time, not to mention the accident itself, the depth of the well.
People on here are complaining about how BP and the feds weren't prepared for this, and that ext. But what they are failing to see is that they were prepared, but their preparations failed due to unseen variables at the time. How then, is this human error beyond a lack of experience? You can't plan for something you can not, given all of your collective knowledge as an industry, foresee happening.
The fact that people are reacting in such a way shows that they can't even understand the complexity of the situation.
I have read after action reports from this published by the largest drillers in the world. Every company is thinking, every company is working towards solving this right now. And to tell you the truth, cutting ANY of them out, especially BP would be the biggest folly this country could do in this situation. As you stated it will cut out massive amounts of money, time, and most importantly experts from the process. But also, and this is the most important thing for the nay sayers here: it will also give BP a legal argument to attempt to walk away from any lawsuits, or fines that will result. Even if negligence is found on the part of BP, or Halliburton, their argument to avoid lawsuits could simply be: We had a plausible solution in place to deal with the fall out, and then the government cut us out of the equation, therefore we are not liable, and it is ultimately the governments fault that the spill got so bad.
No one wants that.
Such action would also cut out BP's competitors from contributing to the clean up of this spill, and would ultimately make the entire industry more brazen if they know the government is going to bail them out and take over the clean up. Most people out of the industry don't realize that some of the largest innovations in regards to oil spill clean up came as a result of Valdez. This was due to the pressure placed on Exxon by the government, and the combined efforts of government and business to solve the problem. While Valdez was ugly, several spills since have been less so, AND the Horizon spill would be far worse if the steps made with Valdez never took place.
On that note, I would like to say that the industry is well aware of the ramifications of this spill, and many companies are pooling resources. Clean up on this magnitude can't happen over night, and the last thing we need are knee jerk reactions that stop people or slow people from doing their job. Here is a for release published statement from BP's largest competitor (please be respectful with this):
The following statement was released today:
Statement by ExxonMobil Regarding the BP-Deepwater Horizon
Incident - April 30, 2010
ExxonMobil is providing assistance in the form of personnel and equipment
to support efforts in the Gulf of Mexico.
“We are all reminded of the need to be ever vigilant in the area of safety
and environmental protection as a result of this tragic incident,” said Rex
W. Tillerson, chairman and chief executive officer.
“Our thoughts go out to the workers and their families and to people in the
impacted areas. We will work with industry and government to help mitigate
the impacts of this incident. We stand ready to support efforts to
determine how such an incident can be prevented from happening again."
ExxonMobil has offered the use of a drilling rig as a staging base, two
supply vessels, an underwater vehicle and support vessel and has provided
experts to respond to BP’s request for technical advice on blowout
preventers, dispersant injection, well construction and containment
options.
The company also continues to support the work of Tier 3 spill response and
cleanup cooperatives, such as Marine Spill Response Corporation, Clean
Gulf, and Oil Spill Response Ltd., to provide personnel and equipment, such
as dispersants, fire boom and radios. ExxonMobil is also identifying,
procuring and manufacturing additional supplies of dispersant for potential
use.
I know how hard this is for all of us, I lived through Valdez and it directly effected my family. All the emotions we feel now were felt then. That clean up didn't happen over night, and this one wont either. But the clean up will happen.
And if you have true deep seated emotions that fill you with nothing more then anger and loathing towards the government and these companies, then DONT DRIVE, don't heat your house with gas, don't use plastic anything, don't go to a hospital, and sell your M4 and all of your PMAGS, because you provided the market that drove for this exploration. Because of this market 11 families lost loved ones, and a million others were effected by the fallout.
A former nuclear submarine officer has an interesting take on this.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-16/nuke-the-oil-spill/
NinjaTactics
05-25-10, 04:31
Really? Please tell me which companies are drilling in the Gulf that you speak of?Do some research online and you'll find out. China has been partnering with Mexico, African countries, Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and other nations for oil exploration. The main state-owned company in China, China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC), has been buying up futures, contracts, and partnering with anybody and everybody they can. Do your own research on things like their partnerships with companies like Statoil, Bridas, and the nations themselves. Russia has been doing the same thing. There is a lot more oil in the world than people realize, but tapping into it will be one of the interesting challenges of this century.
Most modern war and conflict is not about land or people, but about natural resource management (oil, coal, water, minerals, etc.). Both China and Russia realize this and this is why they are exploring everywhere they possibly can and partnering with everybody they possibly can. It is more productive and cheaper to just buy the rights to everything ahead of time than fight costly and time consuming wars over it.
Tomorrow is scheduled d-day to stop the flow...i can't wrap my head around the idea of pumping concrete down to such depths with such great temp changes(albeit a special mix i'm sure).
This is no easy task and is estimated to have a 70% chance of plugging the well...just like the dam coffers, it simply has never been tried in an application like this.
This whole deal was a train wreck. Govt did not have the booms they were required to have on hand & all the other greedy companies all over the world started buying up available booms for their own unlikely spill instead of letting bp have dibs to deal with the crisis at hand. Instead of jumping through hoops on day one and making the berms of sand to block the crap from getting to the marshes, they wanted to 'study' the effects.
Virtually all marine life in the gulf is tied to the LA marshes / Miss delta...it's a tough one to swallow with no easy answers but some really bonehead politics stood in the way early on.
A former nuclear submarine officer has an interesting take on this.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-16/nuke-the-oil-spill/
many smart noggins wanted to blow up the well but the fear of making it worse was too great...that would be tough to sign off on.
Do some research online and you'll find out. China has been partnering with Mexico, African countries, Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and other nations for oil exploration. The main state-owned company in China, China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC), has been buying up futures, contracts, and partnering with anybody and everybody they can. Do your own research on things like their partnerships with companies like Statoil, Bridas, and the nations themselves. Russia has been doing the same thing. There is a lot more oil in the world than people realize, but tapping into it will be one of the interesting challenges of this century.
Most modern war and conflict is not about land or people, but about natural resource management (oil, coal, water, minerals, etc.). Both China and Russia realize this and this is why they are exploring everywhere they possibly can and partnering with everybody they possibly can. It is more productive and cheaper to just buy the rights to everything ahead of time than fight costly and time consuming wars over it.
You're correct. Especially the emboldened portion.
Thompkin's22 you are the only one that is speaking with even a semblance of knowledge on the subject, and it is good to have a roughneck on board here........... And if you have true deep seated emotions that fill you with nothing more then anger and loathing towards the government and these companies, then DONT DRIVE, don't heat your house with gas, don't use plastic anything, don't go to a hospital, and sell your M4 and all of your PMAGS, because you provided the market that drove for this exploration. Because of this market 11 families lost loved ones, and a million others were effected by the fallout.
Are you actually stating that they were not obliged to have prepared for this worst case scenario? I think you are, which is rather astounding. Then you call the rest of us clueless on the subject for not also implicating such utter nonsense? Have you ever heard of accountability?
Both this country and BP have evidently failed to prepare for the situation that has and could always have transpired as a direct result of their operations. That's on both of them, but it will be our problem as a nation in the long run.
And to state that we should no longer drive or own AR's due to someone else's poor judgment on drilling at 5,000 feet is ludicrous. You speak as though drilling at that depth is the only viable option to obtain oil.
I've already seen U.S. citizens claiming things like "Hugo Chavez was right", "Socialism not Capitalism", etc.
Anyone who believes, “Socialism not Capitalism”, is an ignorant imbecile, imo. It scares me that people with that level of discernment actually vote.
1. Obama accepted more in campaign contributions from BP than any other presidential candidate.
2. At a recent Senate committee hearing, Coast Guard Commandant Thad Allen said officials never anticipated the need to do so much so fast to plug the leak, disperse the oil and protect shorelines.
3. The government is ineffectual and disorganized as it pressures BP to produce internal data about the oil spill or second-guesses the type and amount of dispersant BP should use to break up the spilled oil.
4. If there had been a well-devised industry-government response plan in place, then these spats would not be taking place.
5. The EPA, which approved the use of a dispersant called Corexit 9500, now claims BP shouldn't use it because the agency's tests show it to be toxic to certain types of sea life. When did the government know this? If it is indeed dangerous, why is it even allowed?
6. Despite President Barack Obama's announced moratorium on offshore oil drilling permits, hundreds of projects have received waivers, with at least six going to projects operating at greater and more problematic depths than the Deepwater Horizon rig.
7. Long-term public support for offshore drilling should not be jeopardized by short-term carelessness and weak excuses.
kaiservontexas
05-25-10, 10:40
Instead of a nuclear weapon why not a big big bomb like a MOAB? Explosions under water carry more concussive force. I do not see why a nuclear weapon would be a choice. Just drop several tons of conventional explosive and be done with it.
As for the spill hurting the POTUS. I think it is one of many things, and given the fact the EPA told the clean up effort to cease using the chemical they use for these things is not going to look good too boot.
Tuesday, May 25, 2010
As Oil Gushes, Government is AWOL
By David Asman
This is something you don't hear much from Scoreboard, but where the hell is the federal government?
We're talking about the oil spill in the Gulf. We really can't believe that the federal government is leaving so much of it in the hands of the folks who got us into this mess, BP Plc (BP: 41.9896, 0.0596, 0.14%).
Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said of the company over the weekend: "If we find they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, we'll push them out of the way appropriately." This is absurd. Of course they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. If they were doing what they're supposed to be doing, the oil wouldn't be washing up on the shore right now.
Right from the beginning of this thing, the federal government should have moved ships and equipment and personnel into the Gulf to contain the spill. Instead, they've been leaving it up to BP.
"It's BP's problem," we keep hearing. But it's our coastline, and it's our fishing grounds that are getting spoiled. All the feds seem to be worrying about is who'll get the blame. But when you're fighting a fire, you send out all the fire trucks first and find out who's to blame later.
We understand the difficulties of stopping a leak at 5,000 feet underwater. We get that. These are new engineering challenges that haven't been tackled before. But we've been dealing with oil spills for decades. The technologies of cleaning oil are not new. It's not rocket science. They even have super tankers that have experience in the Persian Gulf in sopping up oil in sea water.
But none of this is cheap. It does take a massive federal effort to sop up the oil. And we haven't seen that. Why? What's stopping a full throttle federal effort to clean this thing up? What really infuriates us is that we've seen the feds spend trillions of our dollars in a panic over the last two years on very questionable intangibles, like a jobs program that didn't work and a bank bailout that helped Wall Street bankers make record profits. But the oil spill is a very tangible problem, something that you can literally get your hands on, and yet, we're seeing a federal whimper in response, and an infantile blame game.
It's time to grow up. It's time to send in the Navy, the Marines and any other serious group that is accustomed to taking on tough missions. It’s also time to override the federal regulations that are hampering folks in the Gulf from their efforts to construct sand berms and other means to keep the oil away.
Gov. Bobby Jindal has had his requests for these berms refused for two weeks by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to build these berms. It’s time to clear away the red tape. There'll be plenty of time for the blaming and the law suits later.
Right now it’s time to help the people in the Gulf start sopping this stuff up.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/government/oil-gushes-government-awol/
I laugh at how the media refers to it as a "spill". :confused:
You guys notice the gas prices drop?
Here in Southeast MI, I've seen about a full 25 cent decrease in the past couple of weeks. Went from around $2.90 to $2.65 per gallon unleaded.
thopkins22
05-25-10, 12:35
You guys notice the gas prices drop?
Here in Southeast MI, I've seen about a full 25 cent decrease in the past couple of weeks. Went from around $2.90 to $2.65 per gallon unleaded.
A lot of that is because summer is here now. Production of heating oil decreases while production of gasoline increases.
ForTehNguyen
05-25-10, 12:52
It is more productive and cheaper to just buy the rights to everything ahead of time than fight costly and time consuming wars over it.
especially when you can dump USD reserves in order to get hard and real assets.
You are correct, I missed your point, which I totally agree with. The govt. is waiting for BP to take care of the gulf and its really looking like that’s not BP’s first concern.
I’m hoping Governor Jindel steps up in Louisiana and hits the mess with everything he’s got, then sues the hell out of BP to recoup their moneys.
I think you may have missed my point. There was never a time when I pondered as to how qualified or unqualified our government was to deal with such a situation on this type of level until now, much like most here I would imagine.
But that has very, very little to do with the fact that in the long run that body of water is our responsibility as a nation, not B.P.'s. as a company. This on several levels.
There is nothing the government can do, post "spill." The government's responsibility was prior to authorizing the drilling permit and then to monitor and inspect periodically thereafter. This includes mandating preventative measures, verifying fail-safe mechanisms are in place and functioning, approving plans to mitigate a spill if it happens, contingency disaster plans, etc.
The federal government has zero expertise, equipment, or knowledge with regard to stopping or cleaning up an oil spill. It rely's on BP because it there is no alternative!
From the Press Briefing by Press Secretary Robert Gibbs and Admiral Thad Allen:
Q "Is there -- to this point, though, whether the government can do more, can it push BP out of the way if it feels like that company is not doing the job? What is your response to that?"
ADMIRAL ALLEN: "Well, to push BP out of the way would raise the question to replace them with what?"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/press-briefing-press-secretary-robert-gibbs-admiral-thad-allen-and-assistant-presid
BTW, Russia has used nuclear weapons approximately two dozen times, five times specifically to stop oil disasters, since the sixties for various "environmental" reasons.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0504/russian-paper-suggests-nuclear-explosion-cut-gulf-oil-geyser/
thopkins22
05-25-10, 13:32
YThe govt. is waiting for BP to take care of the gulf and its really looking like that’s not BP’s first concern.
I've got to disagree with you here. As I said earlier I know several of the engineers involved with this project, and BP has pulled out all of the stops. To the point of giving them a blank check.
BP's main concern isn't with any fines that may come about, or how expensive the fix will be. They're concerned with still being in business in 10 years.
ETA:I guarantee that anything that could remotely slow this thing down isn't BP's doing.
Really? Please tell me which companies are drilling in the Gulf that you speak of?
How many references do you want?
1. http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html
2. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/18/obama-surrenders-gulf-oil-to-moscow/
Do some research online and you'll find out. China has been partnering with Mexico, African countries, Brazil, Argentina, Iraq, and other nations for oil exploration. The main state-owned company in China, China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC), has been buying up futures, contracts, and partnering with anybody and everybody they can. Do your own research on things like their partnerships with companies like Statoil, Bridas, and the nations themselves. Russia has been doing the same thing. There is a lot more oil in the world than people realize, but tapping into it will be one of the interesting challenges of this century.
Most modern war and conflict is not about land or people, but about natural resource management (oil, coal, water, minerals, etc.). Both China and Russia realize this and this is why they are exploring everywhere they possibly can and partnering with everybody they possibly can. It is more productive and cheaper to just buy the rights to everything ahead of time than fight costly and time consuming wars over it.
I'm not denying that, I asked you which ones were in US waters off the Gulf Coast?
Are you actually stating that they were not obliged to have prepared for this worst case scenario? I think you are, which is rather astounding. Then you call the rest of us clueless on the subject for not also implicating such utter nonsense? Have you ever heard of accountability?
Both this country and BP have evidently failed to prepare for the situation that has and could always have transpired as a direct result of their operations. That's on both of them, but it will be our problem as a nation in the long run.
And to state that we should no longer drive or own AR's due to someone else's poor judgment on drilling at 5,000 feet is ludicrous. You speak as though drilling at that depth is the only viable option to obtain oil.
No I'm saying the did plan for the worst case scenario and their planning failed! Will they be held accountable? Yes they will, they already are for crying out loud. It doesn't change the fact that cutting them out is a fools move! Like always your latching onto the most inflammatory things I write, and attempting to manipulate them in such a way as to discredit my actual argument.
Things happen in human development that we are not always capable of accounting for. The atom bomb for example. Is it Japan's fault that they didn't have a team of scientists as smart as we did to think of the bomb before the U.S.? You could say yes, but before the first bomb was dropped no-one realized the implications of that technological development.
In science there are things called "confounding variables". It is a variable that was un-accounted for in all of the planning that went into a scientific study. When these things pop up it doesn't mean the study is over, it doesn't mean the scientist is taken out back and shot, it means you adapt your study to include the confounding variable and continue to progress.
That is what I'm saying.
Also, yes I CAN tell you to stop driving. YOU are the one caused this spill, as am I, and all of us that consume oil.
Your argument doesn't take into consideration any of the realities of the industry, it is just knee jerk. Do you think that BP wants to invest billions of dollars into off shore drilling (prior to the Horizon)? Do you think they will want to after this? No! The only reason they do it is because the DEMAND helps justify the expenditure in relationship to future profits. Increased DEMAND means increased need to expand exploration, and increased need for new investments.
People like yourself don't get this. You think: "ANWR" drill there, all will be fine, I can have my ATV and we can go on being the kick ass country we are. Not true. Plain and simple. Deep off shore wells are being tapped right now because of increased global demand. ANWR is a drop in the bucket compared to what is being pulled out of the oceans at the moment.
[
We understand the difficulties of stopping a leak at 5,000 feet underwater. We get that. These are new engineering challenges that haven't been tackled before. But we've been dealing with oil spills for decades. The technologies of cleaning oil are not new. It's not rocket science. They even have super tankers that have experience in the Persian Gulf in sopping up oil in sea water.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/government/oil-gushes-government-awol/
This statement alone proves this guy is full of shit, and has no idea, ie doesn't "get it".
I wasnt clear, Im not talking about the leak itself, but the issue with the GoM.
BP's main concern "Seems" to be stopping the leak, not in attacking the oil contaminating the gulf, beaches and wetlands.
There is to much information out there showing that.
Bobby Jindel has been waiting for the go-ahead on many cleanup issues and steps to slow the flow into the wetlands of LA and BP is dragging their feet.
I also know many people working on this, not just co-workers at my company but Cameron, Shell, Exxon & Petrobras.
I also agree there is more brain power working on this problem than anything in the history of mankind.
I've got to disagree with you here. As I said earlier I know several of the engineers involved with this project, and BP has pulled out all of the stops. To the point of giving them a blank check.
BP's main concern isn't with any fines that may come about, or how expensive the fix will be. They're concerned with still being in business in 10 years.
ETA:I guarantee that anything that could remotely slow this thing down isn't BP's doing.
ForTehNguyen
05-25-10, 14:48
crony capitalism FTW
Regulators Accepted Gifts From Oil Industry, Report Says - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266112115488640.html?mod=e2tw)
IG report: Meth, porn use by drilling agency staff - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100525/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_washington_12)
No I'm saying the did plan for the worst case scenario and their planning failed! Will they be held accountable? Yes they will, they already are for crying out loud. It doesn't change the fact that cutting them out is a fools move! Like always your latching onto the most inflammatory things I write, and attempting to manipulate them in such a way as to discredit my actual argument.
Alright, alright for Pete's sake. Don't get all upset. You make some good points as well, I agree.
But this thread was really meant to highlight the fact that no matter who is at the helm, the situation is very bad and it will reflect very poorly on this President in both the near and distant future. I believe in the end it could eclipse Katrina and then some, depending on how long it takes to plug the damn thing.
And I also simply believe that if they can build it and utilize it for profit, then they better be able to fix it when it breaks. If the United States determined that 5,000 feet was suitable for drilling, they should have had solid safety measures in place for any scenario. Especially with so much at stake.
Even if it meant a fleet of contracted subs properly equipped and on standby.
Alright, alright for Pete's sake. Don't get all upset. You make some good points as well, I agree.
But this thread was really meant to highlight the fact that no matter who is at the helm, the situation is very bad and it will reflect very poorly on this President in both the near and distant future. I believe in the end it could eclipse Katrina and then some, depending on how long it takes to plug the damn thing.
And I also simply believe that if they can build it and utilize it for profit, then they better be able to fix it when it breaks. If the United States determined that 5,000 feet was suitable for drilling, they should have had solid safety measures in place for any scenario. Especially with so much at stake.
Even if it meant a fleet of contracted subs properly equipped and on standby.
Agreed.
Especially considering that one of the biggest political obstacles in the U.S. in regards to this stuff is the NIMBY attitudes.
It is unfortunate that this is what it took to get everyones attention, but hopefully we can scrape together some progress out of such a horrible situation.
I am definitely NOT a conspiracy guy, but, doesn't the timing of this oil leak seem a little fishy to you all?
By this I mean, the current White House is full of hyper-environmentalist libs who are against drilling practically anywhere and then Obama announces that he will allow offshore drilling in certain places and then within, what, a month, this happens? I am just sayin'...
One problem is, BOP's don't fail, all back up plans are centered around them, they are the "hail mary" in offshore drilling incidents.
I really hope sometime in the future they can drag that thing back up to the surface to figure out what happened.
I am definitely NOT a conspiracy guy, but, doesn't the timing of this oil leak seem a little fishy to you all?
By this I mean, the current White House is full of hyper-environmentalist libs who are against drilling practically anywhere and then Obama announces that he will allow offshore drilling in certain places and then within, what, a month, this happens? I am just sayin'...
If this was done by the left to dissuade offshore drilling, except for possibly achieving that one goal it would still be the backfire of a lifetime.
How could that be, you ask? Because it is going to choke the remaining political clout from their already lame duck lefty President as well as kill massive amounts of wildlife, which is exactly what they are trying to prevent.
I believe in the end it could eclipse Katrina and then some, depending on how long it takes to plug the damn thing.
I think it will, because the damage has been done, it just hasn't had time to make significant impact yet because of currents and other factors.
Katrina was largely the result of an incompetent governor and mayor, the Feds were ready to act much more quickly against a much less severe situation had they been given the proper authorizations and the correct local actions been taken (mandatory evac 72 hours prior, etc., etc.).
In this situation local officials are being hamstrung by the Feds and the Feds did not have the equipment in place to execute their longstanding plans.
In other words, this situation is entirely at the feet of the Federal government, unlike Katrina which largely had to do with New Orleans not being properly evacuated by local authorities and the Feds not being given authorization to act by the governor of LA.
Outlander Systems
05-25-10, 18:17
The damage is done. Blame is irrelevant.
The damage that concerns me is that government, which can't do anything but legislate ex post facto, and spend other people's money, might make an attempt to "save face", and pass some absurd law, that only creates an impediment to offshore drilling.
We ain't drilling 7 miles down for the party of it. This should be an eye-opener for folks on the issue of resource depletion.
I foresee BP going bankrupt over this. Where the plot gets interesting is dependent upon who purchases it...
And please, please tell me that they're not seriously still pawing at the idea of a "tactical nuke"...
We ain't drilling 7 miles down for the party of it. This should be an eye-opener for folks on the issue of resource depletion.
No one is drilling at 7 miles anywhere in the world. Not to contradict you, just keeping the thread as factual as possible.
They are at just over 5,000 feet in this case, or about 1 mile.
thopkins22
05-25-10, 18:58
No one is drilling at 7 miles anywhere in the world. Not to contradict you, just keeping the thread as factual as possible.
They are at just over 5,000 feet in this case, or about 1 mile.
The ocean bottom is at 5,000 feet, which is where the actual drilling starts. The well itself extends to 35,000 feet BSL...or roughly 7 miles.;)
Outlander Systems
05-25-10, 19:03
The ocean bottom is at 5,000 feet, which is where the actual drilling starts. The well itself extends 35,000 feet down...or roughly 7 miles.;)
Thanks for the Alley-oop!
The ocean bottom is at 5,000 feet, which is where the actual drilling starts. The well itself extends 35,000 feet down...or roughly 7 miles.;)
Thank-you for the correction, that's why I like to spend time here. :)
To be honest I had no idea we had the technology to drill a 7 mile hole anywhere for any reason. That is simply astounding.
Outlander Systems
05-25-10, 19:08
Thank-you for the correction, that's why I like to spend time here. :)
To be honest I had no idea we had the technology to drill a 7 mile hole anywhere for any reason. That is simply astounding.
It's an extremely remarkable technological feat. This is why alarm bells ring for me when you consider what an absolute PITA it is to try and retrieve the contents that far deep.
thopkins22
05-25-10, 19:08
Thank-you for the correction, that's why I like to spend time here. :)
Not a problem at all. The enormity of that distance, of that much sand and rock pressing down on the field really drives home how much pressure the oil is being driven up with.
One of my largest dissapoints to this whole thing is that BP stated that a max blowout if 12.6 million gallons/day and the goverment rubberstamped that document. If they stated they had this capabilitiy, why weren't emergency preps in the arsenal so to speak already. Logically speaking how the heck can BP say they would deal with a new valdez level spill a day? Someone should have had mutiple plans together and started these earlier.
Go to six minutes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32450072/vp/37322455
On the other side of this argument is I am sure the military ran some wargames based on a enemy sub's taking these all out? What were there solutions. If this doesn't work a politician might want to ask the above dept for a fix to this.
The_War_Wagon
05-26-10, 07:31
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/obama-oilspill.jpg
If he COULD... :rolleyes:
This guy nails it...no excuse that they did not allow the dredging that very well could have saved alot of the marsh / eco system and keep the friggin oil off the Gulf's breeding ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jQUfOZTK-Y
It may very well be too late for most of the marsh but the mud is being pushed down right now.
When the Democrats have screwed up so bad as to piss James Carville off like this, they are spiraling. Anybody who follows politics knows who this fellow is.
He is a political stallwart and a Democrat's Democrat. A nut, make no mistake, but he has (or had) a strong voice in the party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQuXxlyAo74
When the Democrats have screwed up so bad as to piss James Carville off like this, they are spiraling. Anybody who follows politics knows who this fellow is.
He is a political stallwart and a Democrat's Democrat. A nut, make no mistake, but he has (or had) a strong voice in the party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQuXxlyAo74
It says a lot...so many fails and the fallout from the marsh damage is going to be long and painful.
On a good note, operation 'top kill' is looking promising...the mud has stopped most of the oil flow and we just need the cement to start being pushed and cap this bitch off for good.
The clean-up pics over the next few months will be ugly...
If they wouldn't be forced to drill in 5000 feet of water 1) it would be easier to plug the hole, 2) it would be less risky to drill in the first place. I forget the percentage but for every 1000 feet of water, it makes it that much more dangerous to drill.
Also, bobby jindal wanted to put up berms along the coast to stop the oil (this would actually stop the subsurface oil), but they wouldn't let him because of the impact it might have on the marine life?!
8:10AM THE PRESIDENT departs Chicago en route New Orleans
(Open Press at O'Hare airport for media to get video and pics)
10:10AM THE PRESIDENT arrives New Orleans
(Open Press at Louis Armstrong airport for more media video and pics)
12:10PM THE PRESIDENT attends a briefing by Admiral Thad Allen
US Coast Guard Station - Grand Isle, LA
(Pool spray for still photographers at the top of the briefing)
12:30PM THE PRESIDENT delivers a statement to the press
US Coast Guard Station - Grand Isle, LA
(Pooled Press of media for video and pics)
1:25PM THE PRESIDENT departs New Orleans en route Chicago
(Open press at Louis Armstrong Airport for more video & pics)
3:35PM THE PRESIDENT arrives in Chicago
(more open press at O'Hare International Airport)
BO was briefed for 20 min. by Thad Allen , and briefly flew over the marsh.
He did not witness the death and destruction of the wetlands first hand.
He has NO CLUE what it looks like in Pass A' Loutre WMA .
wait....... it gets better
hours before the President arrived in Grand Isle , about 400 workers were bused in at the request of BP and Environmental Safety Health, Inc. Workers were observed bagging sand and cleaning beaches for several hours
these "clean up" people were transported by public school buses . As they arrived, they were given red or blue T-shirts, white jump suits, and new large brim hats.
BTW, several days ago there were ads on the local radio needing clean up workers ASAP and $12.00/hr was the rate of pay .
These school buses are not owned by the Parish school system , but by private individuals. Basically someone close to the situation, contacted school bus owners who got paid got paid to transport workers for a publicity stunt.
within 30 minutes after BO finished his visit and speech, these workers were rounded up, ordered to get back on the buses, and they were gone
"Today, there was an influx of about 400 additional workers," said Jefferson Parish councilman John Young. Young says they had been asking for more help for days. He just finds it odd that helped arrived hours before the president of the United States.
un-freakin'-believable
our Gov't and BP trying to pull the wool over America's eyes
the people in South LA are irate and livid, because they can see right thru this manure
Thomas M-4
05-29-10, 21:31
And last I heard its still coming out. Did the top kill not work?
Watching the news but they haven't said anything yet.
And last I heard its still coming out. Did the top kill not work?
Watching the news but they haven't said anything yet.
top kill is not working...this sucks.
thopkins22
05-30-10, 00:19
top kill is not working...this sucks.
Not a soul I know in the drilling/completions/well control world thought it had better than a 5-10% chance.;)
Top kill on a well like that is truly one of those things to do to make it look like you're being proactive while you have people working on actual(albeit time consuming) solutions.
Not a soul I know in the drilling/completions/well control world thought it had better than a 5-10% chance.;)
Top kill on a well like that is truly one of those things to do to make it look like you're being proactive while you have people working on actual(albeit time consuming) solutions.
on another forum there were some with 'hope' from the oil patch although no one seemed to think the 60-70% success rate was realistic.
If the relief well is our only shot then we got a lot more oil to deal with.
parishioner
05-30-10, 15:27
The health and security of the Gulf of Mexico are the responsibility of the United States, not British Petroleum. The administration has waited over a month for a cooperate entity to save something they do not own nor have jurisdiction over. They just have a permit to work there.
But to think after all these years they never even had a plan, in fact it appears no one did.
This will expose these unfathomably inept fools for exactly who they are. And it will infuriate the far left, especially the hard core environmentalists. The implications will almost certainly be as devastating to this clueless President as they will be to the coastline.
I hate seeing all that wildlife die a slow death while bureaucrats bicker.
Someone agrees with you.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704269204575270950789108846.html#articleTabs=article
He Was Supposed to Be Competent
The spill is a disaster for the president and his political philosophy.
I don't see how the president's position and popularity can survive the oil spill. This is his third political disaster in his first 18 months in office. And they were all, as they say, unforced errors, meaning they were shaped by the president's political judgment and instincts.
There was the tearing and unnecessary war over his health-care proposal and its cost. There was his day-to-day indifference to the views and hopes of the majority of voters regarding illegal immigration. And now the past almost 40 days of dodging and dithering in the face of an environmental calamity. I don't see how you politically survive this.
The president, in my view, continues to govern in a way that suggests he is chronically detached from the central and immediate concerns of his countrymen. This is a terrible thing to see in a political figure, and a startling thing in one who won so handily and shrewdly in 2008. But he has not, almost from the day he was inaugurated, been in sync with the center. The heart of the country is thinking each day about A, B and C, and he is thinking about X, Y and Z. They're in one reality, he's in another.
President Obama promised on Thursday to hold BP accountable in the catastrophic Gulf of Mexico oil spill and said his administration would do everything necessary to protect and restore the coast.
The American people have spent at least two years worrying that high government spending would, in the end, undo the republic. They saw the dollars gushing night and day, and worried that while everything looked the same on the surface, our position was eroding. They have worried about a border that is in some places functionally and of course illegally open, that it too is gushing night and day with problems that states, cities and towns there cannot solve.
And now we have a videotape metaphor for all the public's fears: that clip we see every day, on every news show, of the well gushing black oil into the Gulf of Mexico and toward our shore. You actually don't get deadlier as a metaphor for the moment than that, the monster that lives deep beneath the sea.
In his news conference Thursday, President Obama made his position no better. He attempted to act out passionate engagement through the use of heightened language—"catastrophe," etc.—but repeatedly took refuge in factual minutiae. His staff probably thought this demonstrated his command of even the most obscure facts. Instead it made him seem like someone who won't see the big picture. The unspoken mantra in his head must have been, "I will not be defensive, I will not give them a resentful soundbite." But his strategic problem was that he'd already lost the battle. If the well was plugged tomorrow, the damage will already have been done.
The original sin in my view is that as soon as the oil rig accident happened the president tried to maintain distance between the gusher and his presidency. He wanted people to associate the disaster with BP and not him. When your most creative thoughts in the middle of a disaster revolve around protecting your position, you are summoning trouble. When you try to dodge ownership of a problem, when you try to hide from responsibility, life will give you ownership and responsibility the hard way. In any case, the strategy was always a little mad. Americans would never think an international petroleum company based in London would worry as much about American shores and wildlife as, say, Americans would. They were never going to blame only BP, or trust it.
I wonder if the president knows what a disaster this is not only for him but for his political assumptions. His philosophy is that it is appropriate for the federal government to occupy a more burly, significant and powerful place in America—confronting its problems of need, injustice, inequality. But in a way, and inevitably, this is always boiled down to a promise: "Trust us here in Washington, we will prove worthy of your trust." Then the oil spill came and government could not do the job, could not meet the need, in fact seemed faraway and incapable: "We pay so much for the government and it can't cap an undersea oil well!"
This is what happened with Katrina, and Katrina did at least two big things politically. The first was draw together everything people didn't like about the Bush administration, everything it didn't like about two wars and high spending and illegal immigration, and brought those strands into a heavy knot that just sat there, soggily, and came to symbolize Bushism. The second was illustrate that even though the federal government in our time has continually taken on new missions and responsibilities, the more it took on, the less it seemed capable of performing even its most essential jobs. Conservatives got this point—they know it without being told—but liberals and progressives did not. They thought Katrina was the result only of George W. Bush's incompetence and conservatives' failure to "believe in government." But Mr. Obama was supposed to be competent.
Remarkable too is the way both BP and the government, 40 days in, continue to act shocked, shocked that an accident like this could have happened. If you're drilling for oil in the deep sea, of course something terrible can happen, so you have a plan on what to do when it does.
How could there not have been a plan? How could it all be so ad hoc, so inadequate, so embarrassing? We're plugging it now with tires, mud and golf balls?
What continues to fascinate me is Mr. Obama's standing with Democrats. They don't love him. Half the party voted for Hillary Clinton, and her people have never fully reconciled themselves to him. But he is what they have. They are invested in him. In time—after the 2010 elections go badly—they are going to start to peel off. The political operative James Carville, the most vocal and influential of the president's Gulf critics, signaled to Democrats this week that they can start to peel off. He did it through the passion of his denunciations.
The disaster in the Gulf may well spell the political end of the president and his administration, and that is no cause for joy. It's not good to have a president in this position—weakened, polarizing and lacking broad public support—less than halfway through his term. That it is his fault is no comfort. It is not good for the stability of the world, or its safety, that the leader of "the indispensable nation" be so weakened. I never until the past 10 years understood the almost moral imperative that an American president maintain a high standing in the eyes of his countrymen.
Mr. Obama himself, when running for president, made much of Bush administration distraction and detachment during Katrina. Now the Republican Party will, understandably, go to town on Mr. Obama's having gone before this week only once to the gulf, and the fund-raiser in San Francisco that seemed to take precedence, and the EPA chief who decided to cancel a New York fund-raiser only after the press reported that she planned to attend.
But Republicans should beware, and even mute their mischief. We're in the middle of an actual disaster. When they win back the presidency, they'll probably get the big California earthquake. And they'll probably blow it. Because, ironically enough, of a hard core of truth within their own philosophy: When you ask a government far away in Washington to handle everything, it will handle nothing well.
If this was done by the left to dissuade offshore drilling, except for possibly achieving that one goal it would still be the backfire of a lifetime.
How could that be, you ask? Because it is going to choke the remaining political clout from their already lame duck lefty President as well as kill massive amounts of wildlife, which is exactly what they are trying to prevent.
Not really, SafetyHit. If "their" stated ultimate goal is depopulation (google Bill Gates, depopulation; there's a recent YouTube vid) then I trust they don't really care about the wildlife. It takes a pretty callous MFer to advocate genocide and maximize profits in the same sentence. I don't think Obama would be "in on it" but his response is probably well predicted and he'll have Globalist advisors (that he chose...).
Walter - Tango - Foxtrot
The saw blade is stuck in the riser...
~
parishioner
06-02-10, 13:00
Walter - Tango - Foxtrot
The saw blade is stuck in the riser...
~
You mean the diamond saw blade?
This is turning out to be one serious cluster f***.
You mean the diamond saw blade?
This is turning out to be one serious cluster f***.
No doubt a serious cluster!!
We are following this pretty close on one the hunting forums I visit...
It was stuck, unstuck and now more problems w/ the diamond blade. Let's just hope for a clean flat cut by the end of the day.
Anyone remember this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjqY64WqC30
I still remember having to clean my feet of the tar stains after playing on the beach on south padre when I was just a kiddo.
Those of you keeping up will appreciate the next 8 mins. It took 2 relief wells and 9 months to stop the leak back in 1979!!!
Man it really is just that bad on every level. Hard to believe the leak is still flowing completely unimpeded after all this time. I have a feeling the first hand accounts are going to start trickling in here eventually from a number of states.
The Presidents news conference regarding the spill was a farce. For a moment I thought he was a robotic substitute acting rather poorly even for a robot.
thopkins22
06-02-10, 18:24
For those of us along the coast, there are things we can do to help.
http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/site/2931/
This will almost undoubtedly be the end for our inept "leader". Coming from ABC, the remark about the view of the government's handling of the matter being worse than that of Katrina equates to almost certain doom...
Poll: BP Oil Spill Response Rated Worse than Katrina
Most Favor Criminal Charges Against BP and Others Involved in the Gulf of Mexico Spill
June 7, 2010
By more than a 2-to-1 margin, Americans support the pursuit of criminal charges in the nation's worst oil spill , with increasing numbers calling it a major environmental disaster. Eight in 10 criticize the way BP's handled it – and more people give the federal government's response a negative rating than did the response to Hurricane Katrina.
Beaches across four Gulf shore states brace for oil onslaught. A month and a half after the spill began, 69 percent in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll rate the federal response negatively. That compares with a 62 negative rating for the response to Katrina two weeks after the August 2005 hurricane.
BP's response to the spill draws even broader criticism – 81 percent rate it negatively. And 64 percent say the government should pursue criminal charges against BP and other companies involved in the spill, which has poured oil into the Gulf from a well 5,000 feet beneath the surface since an explosion and fire destroyed the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig April 20.
The poll was conducted Thursday through Sunday, mostly before BP announced Sunday that a containment cap on the well was capturing a substantial portion of the gushing oil. Nonetheless, BP faces deep damage to its public image: Nearly three-quarters of Americans, 73 percent, see "unnecessary risks taken by BP and its drilling partners" as a significant factor in the spill.
And amid fouled beaches, oiled wildlife and closed fisheries , there's growing public dismay over the damage. Seventy-three percent now call the spill a major environmental disaster, up sharply from 55 percent in a Pew Research Center poll a month ago.
Support for pursuit of criminal charges against BP and its partners rises to 71 percent among people who call the spill a major disaster. Similarly, 73 percent favor criminal charges among those who suspect that unnecessary risks were taken by BP and its partners.
There's sharp negative intensity in views of BP. Fifty-four percent give its response the lowest rating, "poor," and 51 percent "strongly" favor examination of criminal charges against the company and its partners – both high levels of strong sentiment.
Substantially fewer, by contrast, rate the federal government's response as "poor," 32 percent.
There's partisanship in views of the federal response, with Democrats less critical of the Democratic-led government. Nonetheless, even among Democrats, 56 percent rate the federal response negatively. That rises to 74 percent of independents and 81 percent of Republicans.
Partisanship ran in precisely the opposite direction in views of the Katrina response under the Bush administration. Just 41 percent of Republicans rated that response negatively, compared to 64 percent of independents and 79 percent of Democrats.
In addition to the 7-point difference in negative ratings of the federal response to the oil spill vs. Katrina, there's a 10-point difference in positive ratings – 28 percent for the government's oil spill response, vs. 38 percent for its response to Katrina. That's in part because 59 percent of Republicans rated the response to Katrina positively, while just 40 percent of Democrats say the same about the current oil spill response.
All the same, there's far less partisan division in concern about the spill's effects: It's seen as a major environmental disaster by seven in 10 Republicans and three-quarters of Democrats and independents alike.
METHODOLOGY – This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone June 3-6, 2010, among a random national sample of 1,004 adults, including landline and cell-phone-only respondents. Results for the full sample have a 3.5-point error margin. Click here for a detailed description of sampling error. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, PA.
http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Media/poll-bp-oil-spill-rated-worse-katrina-criminal-charges/story?id=10846473&page=1
Belmont31R
06-07-10, 12:43
^^^^^
The only thing Obama for is talking, and no real action. He doesn't know what to do because he's inept except for giving a speech someone else wrote.
RE Katrina most of the negative shit was just because Bush was president, and the left wanted to make up anything they could to discredit him. Conviently they said nothing of the Democrat mayor and governor of LA who are 1st and 2nd in line, respectively, to dealing with a disaster. Feds come 3rd not 1st. 1st and 2nd lines were complete failures with inept and negligent leadership.
ForTehNguyen
06-08-10, 07:39
go go govt, thanks for protecting us by banning further exploration/drilling. Its going to have no negative economic consequences whatsoever /sarcasm
LOUISIANA MID-CONTINENT
OIL AND GAS ASSOCIATION
730 NORTH BOULEVARD, BATON ROUGE, LA 70802
TELEPHONE (225) 387-3205 FAX (225) 344-5502
E-MAIL CHRIS.JOHN@lmoga.com
Impacts of President Obama’s Order Halting Work on 33 Exploratory Wells in the Deepwater Gulf of Mexico
The Presidential Order does not affect the 4,515 shallow-water wells, and it does not affect 591 producing deepwater Gulf wells.
Roughly 33% of nation’s domestically produced oil comes from the Gulf of Mexico, and 10% of the nation’s natural gas.
80% of the Gulf’s oil, and 45% of its natural gas comes from operations in more than 1000 feet of water – the deepwater (2009 data).
Suspension of operations means roughly 33 floating drilling rigs – typically leased for hundreds of thousands of dollars per day – will be idled for six months or longer.
$250,000 to $500,000 per day, per rig – results in roughly $8,250,000 to $16,500,000 per day in costs for idle rigs;
Secondary impacts include:
• Supply boats – 2 boats per rig with day rates of $15,000/day per boat - $30,000/day for 33 rigs – nearly $1 million/day
• Impacts to other supplies and related support services (i.e., welders, divers, caterers, transportation, etc.)
Jobs –
Each drilling platform averages 90 to 140 employees at any one time (2 shifts per day), and 180 to 280 for 2 2-week shifts
Each E&P job supports 4 other positions
Therefore, 800 to 1400 jobs per idle rig platform are at risk
Wages for those jobs average $1,804/weekly; potential for lost wages is huge, over $5 to $10 million for 1 month – per platform.
Wages lost could be over $165 to $330 million/month for all 33 platforms
Secondary impacts: Many offshore workers live in Louisiana. The state is going to see a decrease in income taxes and sales taxes that would normally be paid by those employees. (The state does not collect a sales tax on oilfield supplies and equipment used offshore.)
Companies Impacted:
Oil Companies Impacted -
Shell has seven (7) exploratory wells that will be impacted
Others include:
Chevron (4)
Anadarko (3)
Marathon (2)
Noble Energy (2)
Eni US Operating Co. (2)
ATP Oil & Gas (2)
Statoil (2)
ExxonMobil (1)
Petrobras America (1)
BHP (1)
BP (1)
Kerr McGee (1)
Murphy (1)
LLOG (1)
Newfield (1)
Hess (1)
The 33 gulf wells where operations are suspended were the ones inspected immediately after the Deepwater Horizon blowout (per Interior Secretary Ken Salazar); in those inspections, “only minor problems were found on a couple of rigs”. Salazar believes “additional safety measures can be taken including dealing with cementing and casing of wells and significant enhancements and redundancies of blowout prevention mechanisms. Although these rigs passed the inspections, we will look at standards that are in place.”
:rolleyes:
Cagemonkey
06-08-10, 18:43
If they wouldn't be forced to drill in 5000 feet of water 1) it would be easier to plug the hole, 2) it would be less risky to drill in the first place. I forget the percentage but for every 1000 feet of water, it makes it that much more dangerous to drill.
Also, bobby jindal wanted to put up berms along the coast to stop the oil (this would actually stop the subsurface oil), but they wouldn't let him because of the impact it might have on the marine life?!
You hit the nail on the head. The Enviros contributed to this catastrophe. If this accident happened in shallow water, this leak would have been contained and fixed. Instead, its out sight/out of mind. Fixing a major break at 5000' is close to doing the equivalent on the moon.
looks like a little "truth manipulation" going on by the Messah
el' clicko (http://www.click2houston.com/news/23833753/detail.html)
looks like a little "truth manipulation" going on by the Messah
el' clicko (http://www.click2houston.com/news/23833753/detail.html)
Is it really surprising? But hey, the Pres. is ready to go kick someone's ass now! :D
You guys here that Wingnut Rosie on BP?
"Call it Socialism, call it Communism, call it whatever you want.... Seize their assets. Take over BP!"
http://tinyurl.com/26rxods
But hey, the Pres. is ready to go kick someone's ass now! :D
There is nothing.....and I mean NOTHING.....less intimidating than that fool making such a hollow statement. Plus he only conceived it because Lauer said it moments before in the interview.
He is a weakling's weakling. And he is an inept weakling at that.
variablebinary
06-09-10, 17:55
FWIW, I dont think Obama is going to be seriously hurt by this.
This whole affair is Bush and Cheney''s fault because they put weak regulations on the oil company.
This is what you're going to hear about the oil spill come election time
This whole affair is Bush and Cheney''s fault because they put weak regulations on the oil company.
Actually you will find that Clinton played a big role in the current standards.
Either way, Obama has had well over a year to at least initiate some sort of regulation. Not aware of anything that was in progress, in fact as you likely know he recently approved an expansion of offshore drilling.
Bringing Bush into this is simply not logical under the specific circumstances.
variablebinary
06-09-10, 18:48
Bringing Bush into this is simply not logical under the specific circumstances.
You would think. However, just a couple of days ago Chris Matthews on MSNBC was calling this Cheney's Katrina and legacy.
You would think. However, just a couple of days ago Chris Matthews on MSNBC was calling this Cheney's Katrina and legacy.
That's why we are thankful that he and his fellow blatant haters at MSNBC have a total average of 12 viewers at any one time.
:D
You would think. However, just a couple of days ago Chris Matthews on MSNBC was calling this Cheney's Katrina and legacy.
The same Chris "I got a tingle up my leg" Mathews I'm thinking about? From a network who's entire plan if something doesn't go well for BO is to parrot the WH explanation of 'its Bush's fault.'
As was pointed out, he was in office for well over a year now, can't be blaming Bush for anything that doesn't make him smell like a rose. Its not flying with the public as more and more are dong a WTF in regards to voting for him.
That's why we are thankful that he and his fellow blatant haters at MSNBC have a total average of 12 viewers at any one time.
:D
That with or without the cameramen, producers and techs working?
Nathan_Bell
06-09-10, 19:22
That with or without the cameramen, producers and techs working?
12 would include the crew and their families, I would assume. :D
From a network who's entire plan if something doesn't go well for BO is to parrot the WH explanation of 'its Bush's fault.'
Or calling people racists if they don't agree with BHO's policies.
ForTehNguyen
06-10-10, 14:56
3 Reasons Obama Should Kick His Own Ass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quk0tb2qUwY&playnext_from=TL&videos=ivu0PpL5UuA&feature=sub
This thing is way larger than Obama, Bush, Clinton, you and I all rolled together.
Scientists have finally admitted that there are other large leaks on the seabed floor. Not sure what this means but one is reportedly 5 miles from the well head and the other 16 miles away.
Some have even questioned the integrity of the seabed floor... That's above my paygrade but I can read and learn very quickly. I sense that this could be a monumental disaster far beyond political bickering.
BP was negligent (according to many); BP lied; BP has NOT been trying to CAP the well; if they did they'd have to renegotiate their lease as the well would be considered "dead" (lack of terminology here so bear with me, please). Gov't does what it always does: **** things up for we the people.
Here's a video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uMg84BBzE&feature=player_embedded
Here's another link: http://www.businessinsider.com/matthew-simmons-bp-wont-last-the-summer-theres-another-hole-7-miles-away-blowing-massive-amounts-of-oil-each-day-2010-6
I wonder what the worst case scenario would look like since this is the second (I believe) largest known oil reserve on the planet.
You guys here that Wingnut Rosie on BP?
"Call it Socialism, call it Communism, call it whatever you want.... Seize their assets. Take over BP!"
http://tinyurl.com/26rxods
nevermind.................
nevermind.................
yes.. no need to comment on that one... another shinning light of brilliance from the left coast..
ForTehNguyen
06-17-10, 19:43
BP Oil Spill: Against Gov. Jindal's Wishes, Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379
But the Coast Guard ordered the stoppage because of reasons that Jindal found frustrating. The Coast Guard needed to confirm that there were fire extinguishers and life vests on board, and then it had trouble contacting the people who built the barges.
nanny nanny nanny
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