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Dunderway
05-24-10, 20:39
I am trying to follow Doc's sticky in the Ballistics forum but ran into an issue. What is the difference in "law enforcement" Gold Dot and "personal protection" Gold Dot?

For example you can purchase the PP GD 23618, or the LE GD 53618. Both read as 124gr. bonded HP, but the 23618 is about double the cost of the 53618.

Speer seems to be very well thought of, and very reasonably priced, so I am hesitant to chalk this up to marketing BS. If anyone knows the performance difference, I would appreciate some info. I have searched fruitlessly.

Thank you

ETA: Speer does not list the "5" prefix ammo on their website.
Dunderway
05-30-10, 21:13
Could a Mod please move this to the TBI forum? I'm ready to drop a fair amount of cash on some HD ammo and this is a very confusing issue. I think that this would be very helpful to our members as Doc's list does not show #s for Speer ammo.

Thank you,
Heavy Metal
05-30-10, 21:41
Could one be a 20 round box and the other be a 50?

Plus LE does not pay the P-R excise tax. that is like 10 or 11%.
RayMich
05-30-10, 21:58
If you look up the ballistics specs you will see that it is the same exact ammo, just packaged different.

You can generally find Speer LE Gold Dot as well as other personal defense ammo for about half the price of the civilian packaged version at Ammunition to Go. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo
Dunderway
05-30-10, 22:04
I don't think so, but I was really just going off of this:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-9mm-speer-le-gold-dot-147gr-hp-ammo/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

vs. this.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/20rds-9mm-speer-gold-dot-147gr-hp-ammo/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

So $28/ 50 vs. $20/20. I'm just wondering if the cheaper ammo has been tested and what the difference is.

Thanks
Dunderway
05-30-10, 22:06
If you look up the ballistics specs you will see that it is the same exact ammo, just packaged different.

You can generally find Speer LE Gold Dot as well as other personal defense ammo for about half the price of the civilian packaged version at Ammunition to Go. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

Thanks, but where did you find the specs? As I stated before, Speer does not list the cheaper ammo on their site.
Heavy Metal
05-30-10, 22:28
Is the LE marked stuff +P?
RayMich
05-30-10, 22:30
Thanks, but where did you find the specs? As I stated before, Speer does not list the cheaper ammo on their site.

Here you go:

Speer LE Gold Dot
http://le.atk.com/general/speerproducts/handgun/GoldDot.aspx

Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

Part No . . . Muzzle Vel . . . Muzzle Energy
53618 . . . . 1150 fps . . . . 364 ft-lb
23618 . . . . 1150 fps . . . . 364 ft-lb
Dunderway
05-31-10, 19:26
Thank you very much. They aslo appear to use the same bullet. I still find it crazy that the price is so different.
RayMich
06-01-10, 13:23
Thank you very much. They aslo appear to use the same bullet. I still find it crazy that the price is so different.

It IS the same exact ammo.

I guess they must figure that civilians will generally buy less ammo, so they'll "GIG" you more for it in order to make it worth their while. :rolleyes:
sjohnny
06-01-10, 13:29
Plus LE does not pay the P-R excise tax. that is like 10 or 11%.

This may be the difference.

Or they got it on closeout from some other dealer or something.
ST911
06-01-10, 13:37
Packaging and p/n has nothing to do with FET.
RayMich
06-01-10, 13:38
Plus LE does not pay the P-R excise tax. that is like 10 or 11%.

This may be the difference.

Or they got it on closeout from some other dealer or something.

That is entirely possible. Although I would think that since it is a Federal Excise Tax, the tax would be added to civilian purchase of the LE ammo.

There is no magic to ammo labled "For LE use only" by the manufacturers. It is only a PR move. There is no law that prohibits civilians from buying such ammo.
Detmongo
06-01-10, 16:47
it's my under standing that the LE ammo goes through tighter quality control checks than the stuff that goes to the comm. market. this was told to me by a Speer rep. a few years ago. i don't know how true it is but that's what the rep. stated. i do know for my agency if the Gold Dot we get does not meet our spec's it is rejected. one of our spec's is the velocity has to be plus or minus 25fps from the published vel. data.
Pal
06-03-10, 21:37
I don't know what the difference is. I know every time I've called CCI/Speer with a reloading question they have called me back the same day. They have great customer service in that area. I don't have the number with me, but its available on their website. They'll talk with you as long as you want, answer all your questions.

P
Dunderway
06-03-10, 22:20
it's my under standing that the LE ammo goes through tighter quality control checks than the stuff that goes to the comm. market. this was told to me by a Speer rep. a few years ago. i don't know how true it is but that's what the rep. stated. i do know for my agency if the Gold Dot we get does not meet our spec's it is rejected. one of our spec's is the velocity has to be plus or minus 25fps from the published vel. data.

How has the overall quality of Speer been? Do you guys reject much, or are you generally happy with it? Performance-wise, Speer just seems like a great value compared to any other LE/HD ammo.

Thanks,
skyugo
06-04-10, 00:59
it's my under standing that the LE ammo goes through tighter quality control checks than the stuff that goes to the comm. market. this was told to me by a Speer rep. a few years ago. i don't know how true it is but that's what the rep. stated. i do know for my agency if the Gold Dot we get does not meet our spec's it is rejected. one of our spec's is the velocity has to be plus or minus 25fps from the published vel. data.

so wait the LE ammo is cheaper AND it may go through more QC?
nice. i do always snap up a box when the local dealer has it :o
Detmongo
06-04-10, 07:27
How has the overall quality of Speer been? Do you guys reject much, or are you generally happy with it? Performance-wise, Speer just seems like a great value compared to any other LE/HD ammo.

Thanks,

the quality control has been outstanding. the only time i can rember us having any issue with the ammo was a few years ago Speer recalled 9mm, 380,and 40 cal due to some primer issues. performance wise works great on the street, very accu.,clean burning,reliable. i've shot in excess of 100,000 rds of this stuff, it can be hard on guns as it tends to be hot. hope this helps