Looking into Tactical Bolt Actions - Where do I start?

[Skyyr]

Hey guys...

I've decided that I need a bolt action to complement my collection. I've shot them before, but I've never actually looked into them seriously. At this point, I really don't know anything about them besides the differences between some calibers requiring a long vs short action and that the Remington 700 is collectively considered the best all-around starting point, bang for buck.

I've looked high and low for a rundown of bolt action rifles and, unlike the wealth of information on AR15's, I can't seem to find a good intro to what I'm looking for... and I definitely can't seem to find chart-like comparisons that we've been spoiled to have here on M4C.

That being said, I'm looking to build a 1000yd MOA-or-better rifle, preferably in .308. .300 and .338 seem attractive to me, but I've never shot them and they seem to reportedly be expensive. I like the "tactical" functionality over the traditional, barrel-only hunting bolt actions. I noticed that I really like the AI stocks, as well as their complete rifles. I want to build the most accurate combat-capable (read: sniper-esque) rifle up to the point of diminishing returns of cost vs accuracy.

For what it's worth, cost isn't too much of a concern (not that I'm made of money - I'm not, but I want to objectively go after what would best suit me, regardless of cost, and work from there). I don't mind dropping $2,000, $3,000, or even $5,000 on a rifle (or more if needed) if that money is proportional to the performance I'll get out of it. What I want to avoid is putting an extra $1,000 into a gun and only getting .05 MOA more accuracy out of it. I'm looking for a very accurate combat rifle, not a benchrest spacegun.

Any help that can be offered would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[jsbcody]

I am in a similar situation and did a lot of research into this. I limited my caliber choice to .308. There are a couple of great companies for the higher end rifles (Tactical Ops. GA Precision, Desert Tactical Arms, etc) and a few "starter" rifles (Remington 700 Tactical series, Tikka Tactical, Steyr SSG rifles).

I liked the Desert Tactical SRS for the fact you could quickly change barrels and calibers going from .308 to .338 Lapua Mag. In the end I decided to go with Tactical Ops Tango rifle, once I get the money.....after paying off a couple of other "toys" and getting stuff done for the house. :rolleyes:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

Good luck on the research and your final choice!

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I consider myself fairley versed in the world of bolt guns I have 4 at present all built to my liking. I would be happy to awnser your questions.

I also have 2 rigs for sale at present they are in the marketplace under all other long guns. I shot the rem 700 yesterday at 875 yards and printed a 2" group. If you live in NY I would be happy to let you stop over and shoot them.

Jon

[Surf]

...the Remington 700 is collectively considered the best all-around starting point, bang for buck.I agree here. There are cheaper options but a Rem700 is where you should be looking.


That being said, I'm looking to build a 1000yd MOA-or-better rifle, preferably in .308. .300 and .338 seem attractive to me, but I've never shot them and they seem to reportedly be expensive.For .308 you are nearing the outer limits at 1000 yards. The .300wm and .338 Lapua can go quite a bit farther, but quality factory match ammo is not cheap in any caliber but the .300 and .338 get very expensive.


I want to build the most accurate combat-capable (read: sniper-esque) rifle up to the point of diminishing returns of cost vs accuracy.

For what it's worth, cost isn't too much of a concern (not that I'm made of money - I'm not, but I want to objectively go after what would best suit me, regardless of cost, and work from there). I don't mind dropping $2,000, $3,000, or even $5,000 on a rifle (or more if needed) if that money is proportional to the performance I'll get out of it. What I want to avoid is putting an extra $1,000 into a gun and only getting .05 MOA more accuracy out of it. I'm looking for a very accurate combat rifle, not a benchrest spacegun.Hitting .5 MOA is very reasonable within the $1500 - $2000 range. Now this is where things start getting exponentially more expensive when it comes to accuracy. There is a saying with cars that applies to precision rifles. "How fast do you want to go", often relates to "how much money you got". A few tenths of a second may cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. If we use our $1500-$2000 .5MOA rifle, you can easily spend $7-$10K on a .25MOA rifle. One of those rifles has been mentioned above.

I own and shoot a few Remington based rifles in different calibers and two of them fit into either end of the price spectrum in a .308. The high end, .25MOA version is issued, the others are mine. Now if it were my money, would I pay several thousand dollars for an added .25MOA? Probably not, but if you are going to purchase the rifle of my choice and issue it to me, then I know where I am going. ;)

You might want to check out this thread a couple posts down.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53957

[Surf]

I am in a similar situation and did a lot of research into this. I limited my caliber choice to .308. There are a couple of great companies for the higher end rifles (Tactical Ops. GA Precision, Desert Tactical Arms, etc) and a few "starter" rifles (Remington 700 Tactical series, Tikka Tactical, Steyr SSG rifles).

I liked the Desert Tactical SRS for the fact you could quickly change barrels and calibers going from .308 to .338 Lapua Mag. In the end I decided to go with Tactical Ops Tango rifle, once I get the money.....after paying off a couple of other "toys" and getting stuff done for the house. :rolleyes:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/
Good luck on the research and your final choice!If you want a TacOps rifle I suggest that you contact them at least 1 year ahead of time. If you are not LE, you might want to add another 6 months or so. Unless if they have speed up production recently. :)

[ramis]

This article has some good info.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/?p=1

[mkmckinley]

You can get a barreled custom action like a Surgeon, Stiller or Lawton and drop it into an Accuracy International AICS for less than $3000. One build I'm considering on a Stiller is more like $2300. I'm not experienced with full customs but it seems like you can get into the top tier for a little less than I expected. If anyone's interested I can email you a spreadsheet I made budgeting different builds, just PM me your email.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

A buddy clued me in to something about guns that has served me well. Buy a gun for a specific, real purpose- or else it will just sit in a safe. FInd a competition that you want to particiapte in and build the gun for that. Don't be one of those wankers with a kick ass rig and then justs shoots 100 yard groups at the range one Saturday a year. Horses for courses and guns for a purpose (couldn't get anything to rhyme).

The other thing is you didn't mention glass. I'd rather spend $2500 on a nice USO, Premier, or S&B scope and put it on top of a $500 Remington rifle, than a $500 scope on a $2500 rifle. You are cursed if you can't get a Glock 19 to run or your Remington 700 shoots over an inch.

If you are waiting for the latest in tacti-cool, the new AI AX and Remington chasis are coming out. I don't know if I'll try one of those, or pick up a used AICS stock on THe Hide when people start to switch.

I really like Zak's articles.

[longrange18]

Don't really want to take members away but you could look at SniperCentral.com or Snipershide.com. Look in both forums and you will find lots of info on bolt action rifles moving out to long ranges.

[Roneski]

Been shopping around a little myself. I'm looking real hard at a Sako TRG 22.

[MarshallDodge]

A buddy clued me in to something about guns that has served me well. Buy a gun for a specific, real purpose- or else it will just sit in a safe. FInd a competition that you want to particiapte in and build the gun for that. Don't be one of those wankers with a kick ass rig and then justs shoots 100 yard groups at the range one Saturday a year. Horses for courses and guns for a purpose (couldn't get anything to rhyme).

The other thing is you didn't mention glass. I'd rather spend $2500 on a nice USO, Premier, or S&B scope and put it on top of a $500 Remington rifle, than a $500 scope on a $2500 rifle. You are cursed if you can't get a Glock 19 to run or your Remington 700 shoots over an inch.

If you are waiting for the latest in tacti-cool, the new AI AX and Remington chasis are coming out. I don't know if I'll try one of those, or pick up a used AICS stock on THe Hide when people start to switch.

I really like Zak's articles.
Good points and I like Zak's articles as well.

If you are going to really get into long range shooting then a reloader is your friend. You will get the most accuracy out of your rifle by matching the ammo to the gun. The alternative is to buy a gun that is built for a certain factory load but this will limit what you can do.

[longball]

Others may disagree but if you were looking for a custom build it might be worth the time to look into a savage varmint action:

http://savagearms.com/firearms/actions/varmint/

I've never used one but I have to admit I the left side ejection on their target line has also peaked my interest on more than one occasion. I'm not sure a single shot would suit your needs though. My dad and I both own several Savages in several different calibers and they are all shooters. I only own one Remington 700 and although I prefer the overall feel of that action the gun hasn't been as accurate as the Savages (not saying I think that's a bad choice, could be a number of other things with my gun). That is just my experience so far and you may have different luck. Whichever route you go, best of luck to ya.

Upper left 3 shot group measured 17/32" at 175yds (Model 12 FV 22-250, 55gr Sierra Blitzking)
http://s983.photobucket.com/albums/ae317/ibjames1118/?action=view&current=Savage12FV.jpg

Two shots upper right were the first 2 sighters working up a new load. The next 4 shots made the one hole in the center at 100yds. (Model 25T .223)
http://s983.photobucket.com/albums/ae317/ibjames1118/m4c/?action=view&current=069.jpg

Sorry, can't get the picture thing figured out. That's the best I can do at the moment.

[browningboy84]

For a custom Savage build, I recommend one person. Kevin Rayhill with stockade stocks. He guarantees 1/2 MOA, and is the Savage Guru. I have 2 rifles with him right now, and he is well recommended on The Hide!

[Mjolnir]

You are cursed if you can't get a Glock 19 to run or your Remington 700 shoots over an inch.

This quote shall become a classic. I will "borrow and modify" your quote to this:

"One is remarkably damned if he cannot get a Glock Model 17 to run reliably or his Remington 700 shoots over an inch at 100 yards."

[pofboom]

Look into GAP rifles. I have the Crusader with the Templar action. I can shoot a dime at 200 yds. It is a little pricey and may take a while to make but perfection takes time. Look into all custom rifles. I looked at Tactical Rifles, Accuracy International, GAP, Nighthawk, Remington, and JE Allen. The GAP is the least expensive option because they will provide you with the Templar action. I am not a fan of the AI stock and Tactical Rifles jumps way up in price if you choose any of the McMillans because they have to bed it and other things. The GAP Crusader comes with a sling, 20 MOA mount, 3/8 MOA guarantee (will shoot way better than advertised) and Badger 30mm rings of the desired height you want. Just tell them what scope your putting on it and they will provide the proper size rings. They have great, excellent customer service. You will not regret a purchase of a GAP rifle.

[rdc0000]

I think these are so important that I apologizes since I posted this on another thread. This will be my next long range rifle. If German Salazar is using one, it is good!!


Borden is making a tube gun action for about $800. The Borden action is ready for a quality barrel and then drop it into the tube gun of your choice (Eliseo or MAK) . You can use R700 actions also, just requires blue printing if it's stock or not your choice. I assume you can also use a magpul PRS stock also. I know you can with the MAK.

Light Weight
(http://www.competitionshootingstuff.com/id30.html)
RTM (http://www.competitionshootingstuff.com/id12.html)

[DTHN2LGS]

I would look at building a 300 Magnum for 1,000 yard shooting. It's much easier to keep the bullets supersonic at that range with a 300 Mag. than a .308 Win. While I have always wanted a .338 Lapua, it would be very expensive to shoot ammo-wise. A 300 Magnum (of your choice) would not be that much more expensive to shoot than a .308 Win. would. That's my $0.02.

[maximus83]

For a custom Savage build, I recommend one person. Kevin Rayhill with stockade stocks. He guarantees 1/2 MOA, and is the Savage Guru. I have 2 rifles with him right now, and he is well recommended on The Hide!

+1. Kevin built me a total tack driver.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19524