View Full Version : which HK?
i've been looking for a new handgun for cc and decide on the HK p2000sk.
the only thing is that i don't know if i should get the v2 or the v3?
i am leaning towards the v2 but have never shot either one so could someone with knowledge of these two pistols please give me their opinion on which is the better gun
gtmtnbiker98
05-25-10, 13:06
This is not an easy question and definitely not one that can be answered on an Internet forum. The two trigger setups are very different. The V3 is a traditional DA/SA and the V2 LEM is a very light double-action only trigger with a pretty short reset. The LEM operates like no other trigger mechanism and many love it and just as many hate it. Definitely try both before you buy. Just my .02.
What do you currently own? This will also assist in your decision making process.
currently i don't own any handguns but the last one i had was a Star 45 PD...not the greatest gun but it served it's purpose.
the last gun i shot was a taurus 24/7 and i hated the trigger
This is not an easy question and definitely not one that can be answered on an Internet forum. The two trigger setups are very different. The V3 is a traditional DA/SA and the V2 LEM is a very light double-action only trigger with a pretty short reset. The LEM operates like no other trigger mechanism and many love it and just as many hate it. Definitely try both before you buy. Just my .02.
What do you currently own? This will also assist in your decision making process.
Good advice.
However, if you are starting fresh, then it is a toss-up in my opinion. You might consider trying to find some rental guns in the area and make your decision after you've tried them both out.
Magic_Salad0892
05-25-10, 15:09
The advice given above is the best advice your going to get but consider this.
On the V2 (DA/SA) your going to have to get used to transitioning trigger pulls.
With the LEM one, you have to get used to a single trigger pull weight, and that's it.
I'd get the V2, but it requires more training, and familiarity with the DA/SA system.
Shoot them both, and contemplate if you're comfortable with learning the procedure for DA/SA.
Does the P2000 have an external safety?
P7-PSP...You wont ever regret getting that pistol.
Perfect for CC, slim, shoots completely flat, incredible safety system (people dont realize that benifits of that system)...
P7-PSP...you wont go back.
Velcro
P7-PSP...You wont ever regret getting that pistol.
Perfect for CC, slim, shoots completely flat, incredible safety system (people dont realize that benifits of that system)...
P7-PSP...you wont go back.
Velcro
Good choice, but the America version (M8) would be my choice as the best all around CC weapon. :D
C4
because it is a weapon that take a good attitude to know the operation of this thing, probably my favorite feature for this pistol is the Euro mag release.
With the M8, its like anything else, you are going to launch your mags when they are empty. with the euro mag release it puts mag retention into the "palm of your hand" literally and forces you to learn good mag retention, and the PSP is even slimmer than the M8.
Velcro
because it is a weapon that take a good attitude to know the operation of this thing, probably my favorite feature for this pistol is the Euro mag release.
With the M8, its like anything else, you are going to launch your mags when they are empty. with the euro mag release it puts mag retention into the "palm of your hand" literally and forces you to learn good mag retention, and the PSP is even slimmer than the M8.
Velcro
With an emergency reload, the LAST thing I am worried about is retaining my mag. Getting the weapon reloaded and back into action IS the most important thing.
C4
"IF" you are in an engagement that you have to reload...IF EVER, the reality is to get that loaded mag in the gun, fine, but the theory of dump you mag and get rid of it, WILL NOT always be your best solution.
If you train that "retention" is an option and a important one, then when it comes time to have to, you will know it, A LOT better than realizing that "Oh sht, I don't know where any of my mags are".
In a perfect enviornment, on the range, or rec shooting, fine, but when you need that skill, in the middle of it, IT WONT BE THERE...
Right, better to have the skill and not need to use it than not have it at all. People, remember not to get to tunnel visioned on the things that just seem so simple...practice some form of retention when you train...its not a all the time thing, but its a basic fundamental and skill.
...I have been faster to get back into it with retention than someone else who may get that empty mag out of the way, but is so sparatic that they fumble...training a harder skill makes easier things...easier!
Velcro
"IF" you are in an engagement that you have to reload...IF EVER, the reality is to get that loaded mag in the gun, fine, but the theory of dump you mag and get rid of it, WILL NOT always be your best solution.
This is only valid if I have loose ammo to put into my mags. I don't know about you, but I don't carry loose ammo on me.
If you train that "retention" is an option and a important one, then when it comes time to have to, you will know it, A LOT better than realizing that "Oh sht, I don't know where any of my mags are".
In a perfect enviornment, on the range, or rec shooting, fine, but when you need that skill, in the middle of it, IT WONT BE THERE...
Right, better to have the skill and not need to use it than not have it at all. People, remember not to get to tunnel visioned on the things that just seem so simple...practice some form of retention when you train...its not a all the time thing, but its a basic fundamental and skill.
...I have been faster to get back into it with retention than someone else who may get that empty mag out of the way, but is so sparatic that they fumble...training a harder skill makes easier things...easier!
Velcro
I practice both tactical reloads and retention reloads. Neither of them are as fast as an emergency reload. Getting bullets back in the gun is the only thing that matters in a bad situation.
C4
P7-PSP...You wont ever regret getting that pistol.
Perfect for CC, slim, shoots completely flat, incredible safety system (people dont realize that benifits of that system)...
P7-PSP...you wont go back.
Velcro
I carried a P7 for a year in the early '90s. And then gave it up.
I think the advice sometimes offered that if this is your carry weapon, you should forego all others is sound advice. It demands very unique handling habits and if you do not totally ingrain in them, this can be an extremely dangerous choice of carry pistol.
Once squeezed to the cocked position, that SA trigger pull is short, crisp and LIGHT. So don't ever get so stressed out in a potenntially dangerous situation that you squeeze it too soon. And don't have it squeezed to cocked and then, startle from movement in a doorway to your left and rapidly pivot towards the movement which startled you. From my experience drilling these things with a PSP, I decided that there are far too many outstanding pistol choices whose designs allow more room for error under stress.
you are the Instructor...we can go with what you say, and you are correct, but there is WAY MORE than that to it.
JHC, you are completely right, it does take a more mentally trained form of training, I will take that over just getting by type of training...because as one reaches a higher level, the are offered more options...I dont want any room for error in my pistol, period.
Velcro
you are the Instructor...we can go with what you say, and you are correct, but there is WAY MORE than that to it.
Velcro
Whose the instructor? Not me. I do train with the best minds in the game. They will all tell you the same thing. Getting ammo back into the gun trumps retaining an empty mag.
There is way more to what? Tactical reloads? No, not really. They are simple to do with a little practice.
C4
unfortunately no gun shop around here carry HK pistols so trying the different triggers is out of the question.
i think i'm going to go with the v2 LEM version since i didn't like the way the sa/da trigger on the taurus felt having a long pull on the first shot and short on the remaining.
if i don't like the v2 i can always sell it and get something different
the best mind's in the game is completely left up to opinion...I can easily say the same thing. It would be interesting to compare notes...and I am sure that the people that you train with are happy that you are there to help them with the needs of equipment they may have.
if you get past the "see dick run" final answer about getting bullets back into the gun...there is no greater "final need" outcome, but that form of tunnel vision is fine for a range, you have to be at a mental level higher than changing a mag fast, or that is all you will ever do.
Velcro
buckshot1220
05-25-10, 19:41
I've got the P2000SK in LEM (V2). Also have an HK45C in LEM. Hands down the end all, be all trigger for a carry gun IMO. Without getting your hands on it it is tough to explain, but the closest comparison would be a Glock trigger where you have a light take up, a second stage with more weight before the break and a fairly quick reset. Now, before someone jumps on me, yes the two firing systems are totally different (hammer vs. striker fired), but in all actuality a stock 5.5lb Glock trigger is similar in characteristics of the pull compared to the LEM variants.
OP: Feel free to PM if you have any other questions.
buckshot1220
05-25-10, 19:55
The advice given above is the best advice your going to get but consider this.
On the V2 (DA/SA) your going to have to get used to transitioning trigger pulls.
With the LEM one, you have to get used to a single trigger pull weight, and that's it.
I'd get the V2, but it requires more training, and familiarity with the DA/SA system.
Shoot them both, and contemplate if you're comfortable with learning the procedure for DA/SA.
Does the P2000 have an external safety?
V2=LEM
V3=DA/SA
I have been carrying my P2000SK LEM .40 for just under four years now. I absolutely love it. Get yourself some flat floorplates for your mags.
buckshot1220
05-25-10, 20:13
I have been carrying my P2000SK LEM .40 for just under four years now. I absolutely love it. Get yourself some flat floorplates for your mags.
Excellent advice, glad you remembered.
I almost forgot!
http://www.robertrtg.com/uspcflatplates.html
ColdDeadHands
05-25-10, 20:43
i've been looking for a new handgun for cc and decide on the HK p2000sk.
the only thing is that i don't know if i should get the v2 or the v3?
i am leaning towards the v2 but have never shot either one so could someone with knowledge of these two pistols please give me their opinion on which is the better gun
I'd go for the V2 if you can't have a safety with DA/SA.
the best mind's in the game is completely left up to opinion...I can easily say the same thing. It would be interesting to compare notes...and I am sure that the people that you train with are happy that you are there to help them with the needs of equipment they may have.
if you get past the "see dick run" final answer about getting bullets back into the gun...there is no greater "final need" outcome, but that form of tunnel vision is fine for a range, you have to be at a mental level higher than changing a mag fast, or that is all you will ever do.
Velcro
I have never seen a combat veteran that is a professional instructor advise that anything is more important than getting rounds in your gun when it runs out.
Now, that we are past getting rounds in your empty weapon, we can move onto tactics and mindset if you like. Feel free start a new thread in the tactics section discussing types of mag changes, which way is best and mindset.
C4
+1 for the LEM trigger.
I have one in a USP .45CT, I carry it frequently or carry a Glock 27. I don't care to have to flip a safe off when I draw, after all, if you are concealed carrying you are NOT going to pull your pistol and point it at someone unless it is time to shoot. That's why I don't carry a 1911 anymore, I found that it was another step under stress or in adverse conditions that slowed me down. Even if you are a speed freak with a 1911, it is still another step in the process that you could mess up under stress. Point and click is how I like to carry. Before someone jumps on me about how a safety is better because they feel it is safer to carry, think about it. If they are that worried about having a accidental discharge then they shouldn't be carrying a gun at all. Chances are that are not confident in their abilities to go on the offensive when the time occurs, they might get shot with their own weapon. After all, people only remember the people that die doing something stupid or choke.................
FrankRochester
05-25-10, 21:28
the best mind's in the game is completely left up to opinion...I can easily say the same thing. It would be interesting to compare notes...and I am sure that the people that you train with are happy that you are there to help them with the needs of equipment they may have.
if you get past the "see dick run" final answer about getting bullets back into the gun...there is no greater "final need" outcome, but that form of tunnel vision is fine for a range, you have to be at a mental level higher than changing a mag fast, or that is all you will ever do.
Velcro
There's a reason why even the european gun makers have abandoned the heel mag release.
Why does everybody talk about having to learn both a DA pull and SA pull on a DA/SA handgun? Just carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 and you don't have to worry about it.
I actually liked the mag release on HKs and miss it now that I carry an M&P. I'm not sure what that guy is talking about with the forced mag retention? You push down on the lever with your trigger finger and the mag drops out like any other mag in any other gun.
Why does everybody talk about having to learn both a DA pull and SA pull on a DA/SA handgun? Just carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 and you don't have to worry about it.
This isn't an option with every da/sa pistol.
C4
thanks for the replies, i ordered the v2...hopefully i'll like it.
there are only 2 gun shops in my town and they really don't have much stock so i just have to go on faith with most of my purchases
This isn't an option with every da/sa pistol.
C4
We're talking about HKs though and every HK I've owned (USP .45, USP .45 Tactical, and USPc 9mm) have all been carried in that condition. Yet somebody above said you need to get used to transitioning from a DA to SA pull when shooting an HK. The DA/SA variant is perfectly capable of being carried C&L. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people spout this misinformation and insinuate that it is a shortcoming of the pistol. Of the thousands of rounds I've shot through my HKs, I never once bothered with DA trigger. the It just makes me go...:rolleyes:
buckshot1220
05-25-10, 22:21
We're talking about HKs though and every HK I've owned (USP .45, USP .45 Tactical, and USPc 9mm) have all been carried in that condition. Yet somebody above said you need to get used to transitioning from a DA to SA pull when shooting an HK. The DA/SA variant is perfectly capable of being carried C&L. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people spout this misinformation and insinuate that it is a shortcoming of the pistol. Of the thousands of rounds I've shot through my HKs, I never once bothered with DA trigger. the It just makes me go...:rolleyes:
The P2000 and SK models do not have a safety/decocker like the USP and other models have. Instead, they have a rear mounted decocker (note: not a safety, just decocker) located on the back of the frame/slide to the left of the hammer. This is also the case for the newer P30. You cannot carry these C&L, either DA transferring to SA or you go LEM. There is a true DAO variant available for the P2000, but I've never actually seen one.
We're talking about HKs though and every HK I've owned (USP .45, USP .45 Tactical, and USPc 9mm) have all been carried in that condition. Yet somebody above said you need to get used to transitioning from a DA to SA pull when shooting an HK. The DA/SA variant is perfectly capable of being carried C&L. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people spout this misinformation and insinuate that it is a shortcoming of the pistol. Of the thousands of rounds I've shot through my HKs, I never once bothered with DA trigger. the It just makes me go...:rolleyes:
I have no issue with carrying a gun cocked and locked, but I believe that I you are going to carry it as a defensive weapon, you need to be able shoot it well in DA as a matter of principle. YMMV.
C4
The P2000 and SK models do not have a safety/decocker like the USP and other models have. Instead, they have a rear mounted decocker (note: not a safety, just decocker) located on the back of the frame/slide to the left of the hammer. This is also the case for the newer P30. You cannot carry these C&L, either DA transferring to SA or you go LEM. There is a true DAO variant available for the P2000, but I've never actually seen one.
I did not realize the P2000 or P30 series didn't come with safeties. I was never interested in them. I knew the HK45 (military trial requirement) did though and had done some reading about its features.
Either way, I don't see how that changes the fact that you can still carry them cocked like any Glock or M&P. Do people just consider the non-LEM models of the P2000 and P30 series unsafe carried cocked? I don't understand why it would be any different from a Glock or M&P.
I have no issue with carrying a gun cocked and locked, but I believe that I you are going to carry it as a defensive weapon, you need to be able shoot it well in DA as a matter of principle. YMMV.
C4
After loading the gun and chambering a round the only way to get it into DA mode would be to use the decocker or to have a failure to fire/light primer strike. If you do prefer to carry cocked and locked then you would either never use the decocker or get the variant that lacks the decock mechanism, thus again never "deactivating" single action mode to begin with. But as you said YMMV and preferences differ.
Failure to fire... people have different views on that. Some (like the military) like/want second strike (DA) capability, and others stress that you should always eject the unfired round (tap rack bang etc) and shoot the next. But again YMMV.
buckshot1220
05-25-10, 22:40
I did not realize the P2000 or P30 series didn't come with safeties. I was never interested in them. I knew the HK45 (military trial requirement) did though and had done some reading about its features.
Either way, I don't see how that changes the fact that you can still carry them cocked like any Glock or M&P. Do people just consider the non-LEM models of the P2000 and P30 series unsafe carried cocked? I don't understand why it would be any different from a Glock or M&P.
Glocks and M&Ps have safeties built into the trigger mechanisms and have a certain degree of pre-travel necessary to disengage the safety(s), engage the sear and then release the striker. An HK, when carried cocked, will not require really any pre-travel, it will just be sitting there waiting to go over the edge so to speak. I won't debate whether or not it will go off, but I don't think anyone would advise carrying in such condition. If it were safe, I think the 1911 guys would've figured it out already:D
Glocks and M&Ps have safeties built into the trigger mechanisms and have a certain degree of pre-travel necessary to disengage the safety(s), engage the sear and then release the striker. An HK, when carried cocked, will not require really any pre-travel, it will just be sitting there waiting to go over the edge so to speak. I won't debate whether or not it will go off, but I don't think anyone would advise carrying in such condition. If it were safe, I think the 1911 guys would've figured it out already:D
Good point about the take up plus the hinged and safe action triggers on those guns. I hadn't considered that.
I don't understand why it would be any different from a Glock or M&P.
If you understand how modern striker fire pistols work, there won't be any confusion. A loaded Glock or M&P is not like a loaded DA/SA being carried cocked and off safe.
If you understand how modern striker fire pistols work, there won't be any confusion. A loaded Glock or M&P is not like a loaded DA/SA being carried cocked and off safe.
I do understand how they work. Read the above post that I made an hour before your's.
Magic_Salad0892
05-26-10, 03:05
I guess I was wrong about the V2, V3 triggers. Oops.
gtmtnbiker98
05-26-10, 06:29
We're talking about HKs though and every HK I've owned (USP .45, USP .45 Tactical, and USPc 9mm) have all been carried in that condition. Yet somebody above said you need to get used to transitioning from a DA to SA pull when shooting an HK. The DA/SA variant is perfectly capable of being carried C&L. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people spout this misinformation and insinuate that it is a shortcoming of the pistol. Of the thousands of rounds I've shot through my HKs, I never once bothered with DA trigger. the It just makes me go...:rolleyes:Yes, we are talking about HKs and you are wrong. Yes, in your experience, the USP Series can be carried condition 1; however, not all HK pistols have the safety and decock feature. Take for example the V3 P2000 and the first release P30s. These pistols only have a decock and no manual safety, so the user cannot carry "cocked and locked." The OP was talking about the V2 and V3. When using the V3, you have to learn the DA/SA transition in order to be effective.
Grant was simply stating that there are other DA/SA guns out there that require the learning of the DA/SA system, for example, the P2000/P30 HK, Sig Sauer, etc.
buckshot1220
05-26-10, 07:40
Back to the OP, did you get 9mm, 40SW or 357Sig?
Yes, we are talking about HKs and you are wrong.
You're responding after I'd said I was ignorant about the P2000 and P30 series did not have safeties. I assumed they did just like the USP series. Grant could have easily corrected me on this detail. It actually blows my mind that they aren't an option.
i ordered it it 9mm...now i just need to find a good holster
Back to the OP, did you get 9mm, 40SW or 357Sig?
You looking for IWB or OWB? Or maybe AIWB?
buckshot1220
05-26-10, 20:16
For a good IWB I use this:
http://www.shop.peterscustomholsters.com/product.sc?productId=1&categoryId=2
For tuckable IWB look at Crossbreed and Comp-Tac.
For AIWB I use this:
http://www.donhume.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67_366_139&products_id=35&zenid=fcsg0e0cgs4ahjr99ohcu1u473
i was thinking about getting a comp-tac infidel.
i just want something that i can throw on pretty quickly when i head out the door so i probably get the belt clip
buckshot1220
05-27-10, 19:06
i was thinking about getting a comp-tac infidel.
i just want something that i can throw on pretty quickly when i head out the door so i probably get the belt clip
I have one for my HK45C, I'm not a fan but that may just be me.
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