View Full Version : Can't fix stupid... (***GRAPHIC*** - Using live 50bmg round as hammer)
I got an e-mail yesterday with a safety gram / message. For those of you not in the military they publish these messages periodically when someone does something stupid and unsafe to bring it to the attention of others so it does not happen again. Well here's the story...This guy is mounting an M2 .50 cal machine gun in an MATV, he experiences difficulty interting the locking pin in the gun mount, so he grabs a rock and attempts to force the pin in when that does not work after a few attempts he grabs a loose .50 cal LIVE ROUND and attemps to force the pin in. AFTER SEVERAL HITS with the round the primer activated and the round went off in his hand! The message came with a picture the hand looked like well disgusting. I mean it takes a special kind of stupid to grab a live round of any kind and use it as a hammer! I had to share this with you guys, just remember anytime you think you did something stupid there is someone out there that can one up you.
JP
Sadly that fellow is not the first. A friend of mine witnessed an African pound a 12 ga. shotshell on the primer with a hammer and screwdriver b/c he was convinced a shell could not fire without the gun and was trying to illustrate that nothing would happen. Luckily the guy only got a big cut from the flying brass case head.
I have that same email. What gets me is that apparantly it never entered his mind that what he was doing was dangerous. Most importantly, where was his NCO to stop him? You might not be able to fix stupid, but some things can be done to help reduce the level of stupidity.
Paraclete comes
05-27-10, 01:59
All I can say is wow.
Why do the words "hammer, 50 cal, explosion" always seem to keep cropping up together? :p
(Calguns boltgun failure anyone?)
I have that same email. What gets me is that apparantly it never entered his mind that what he was doing was dangerous. Most importantly, where was his NCO to stop him? You might not be able to fix stupid, but some things can be done to help reduce the level of stupidity.
Yep. Every Soldier has a Sergeant. Where was his, and why was he not properly trained on how to mount the gun?
You ever see the UXO message about the young Marine putting a blasting cap in his mouth?
I have that same email. What gets me is that apparantly it never entered his mind that what he was doing was dangerous. Most importantly, where was his NCO to stop him? You might not be able to fix stupid, but some things can be done to help reduce the level of stupidity.
As a senior NCO I understand this question BUT the NCO has a whole team to work with doing PCIs and PCCs he cant be everywhere at once. Ultimately for someone who has been through basic training, and spent train up time in his/her permanant unit and deployed in combat has to know that is a stupid idea but if he did not then I blame his drill Sergeants, and instructors for failing to inform him. We get this in the Army at least if PVT Snuffy gets a DUI then they come down on the NCO, I have seen it all too many times an E-5 gets his Ass chewed by the SGM "where were you when he was driving drunk, why didnt you prevent this?" Meanwhile the Commander, 1ST Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, and Squad leader all gave safety briefings saying dont drink and drive, call a cab or me and I'll pick you up. I agree that some soldiers do get failed by shoddy leadership but we have to lay blame on the troops sometimes they are adults and we can't supervise them every second of the day they have to accept some responsibility especially in a case like this where you would have to be a brain dead moron to think that was a good idea.
Yeah, I just got that notification yeterday. Fantastic picture of what a shredded hand looks like, if you're into that sort of thing.
I have a hard time attributing this to some sort of leadership failure by any local NCO, officer, Alderman or Tooth Fairy, except in the abstract. Take it up the logic path far enough, it's a colossal command failure at the top level for allowing the Army to accept the number of Category 4 recruits that they do. Flinging blame down to the local level is nothing more than some douche keeping their staff position safe. Blamestorming is pointless, doing nothing but further reinforcing the current PC risk-averse, zero-tolerance environment we see creeping forward more and more.
Sometimes, people are just stupid, and the only way to teach them is through pain. Thank Crom no others were hurt by this oxygen thief.
I've already had to lock some doofuses on regarding how a round acts differently when it's not in a chamber, and that it wasn't anyting to do with unstable explosives or bad batches of ammo. FYI, Supply Specialists with no military background should stick to kicking boxes and counting things, or at least learn some basic Newtonian physics, inertia, things like that.
What an idiot. We all know the best way to get those pins in is to shoot them with your side arm. Come on.....:rolleyes:
So where's the pics of the hand? Yes I'm into that sort of thing.
First time using the "attachments" feature. Let's see if this works...
I saw no indicators of anything resembling FOUO or some other level of classification, which makes sense for a safety document, but if this violates some arcane rule I don't know about, those in the know please take appropriate action.
EDIT: Okay, THAT didn't work. Instead, barring violent objection, I can upload the photo, but I think we need a **GRAPHIC** warning or similar in the title to alert the squeamish beforehand, lest they wring their hands and whine.
Id blame it more on his parents than his NCO :p
DO NOT I SAY AGAIN DO NOT LOOK AT THIS PHOTO IF YOU'RE SOME KIND OF NANCY-BOY
THIS CONCLUDES YOUR SAFETY BRIEF
John_Wayne777
05-27-10, 11:23
That's considerably more mangling than I was expecting. Given the amount of powder in a .50 BMG round I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I must also agree with Jim that sometimes stupid people do stupid things and it's nobody else's fault. The military is already ate up with regulations and rules and procedures because people do the equivalent of beating a .50 BMG round on a firing-pin shaped object on a regular basis. When you hand out stuff more dangerous than safety scissors to enough people sooner or later someone is going to invent a novel way to do something stupid with it and they or someone else will be hurt. When it happens all the adults in the room should be smart enough to realize that you can't preempt every possible idiotic act beforehand with regulations or supervision.
So where's the pics of the hand? Yes I'm into that sort of thing.
+1... Im a sick phuck. I want to see it.
edit: photo sposted but blocked on my work computer! POOP! iPhone time.
I don't see how this could posibly be the fault of his NCO... How can anyone in their right mind imagine that someone will be dumb enough to use a .50cal round as an impact tool? I know you have to reduce it to the least common denominator, but has the US military become so desperate for people that the least comming denominator includes this guy?
Is so... Im scared...
+1... Im a sick phuck. I want to see it.
edit: photo sposted but blocked on my work computer! .
You may see it here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=161074&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
Photo was blocked by ImageShack. Buncha cake-eating sissies.
Photo reloaded as an attachment (correctly, this time!) above, instead.
DAMN! Hope the guy doesn't lose the two good fingers or thumb; also hope they are usable if saved. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
A little duct tape will fix that right up.
I guess everyone can be somewhat useful in that they can always be a "bad example" to illustrate how not to do it to others. I am sorry to see a young man loose the use of his hand and tie up resources by doing something incorrectly. I was Navy and have no idea about the weapon system or vehicle it was being mounted on, but I am sure of two things: 1) this was not the first time it was ever done, so the kid was not breaking new ground or had to think out of the box to get er done. 2) I am positive that nowhere in the free modern world do we teach anyone to use live ordnance as an impact tool. Waste of a perfectly good biscuit hook.
As far people who just want to look at gory pictures, .....really?
CarlosDJackal
05-27-10, 13:15
I have that same email. What gets me is that apparantly it never entered his mind that what he was doing was dangerous. Most importantly, where was his NCO to stop him? You might not be able to fix stupid, but some things can be done to help reduce the level of stupidity.
Unless he was watching this go down, I don't think you can blame this moron's NCO. You can't watch everyone 24/7/365!! My question is did someone not see this happening? But then again, that doesn't mean they could have stopped him in time.
Case in point. Back when I was an Indirect Fire Infantryman (11C1P) we were conducting a live fire. When we had a round not go off (turned out to be a hung round) we yell "Misfire!!". At which point my Ammo Handler (I was the gunner even though he was a SP4 and I was a PFC) walked up towards the front of the 81-mm mortar as I was preparing to give it a kick. Before any of us can say or do anything, this moron sticks looks into muzzle and exclaims, "Yup, it's stuck alright." :eek:
The reality is it only takes a second for someone to do something that can get themselves or others hurt.
Regarding NCOs...
On the speculative side, having been on all sides of this coin, my take is that this guy was one who everybody knows doesn't need more attention than he already gets. We've all had "that guy" in our unit. He's the Private Pyle from FMJ. Someone should have been watching.
On the other hand, no, an NCO cannot be everywhere all the time. But was the guy trained on how to properly employ his equipment? I think that's an honest and fair question. Is the NCO responsible? Probably not. But is the NCO responsible? Absolutely.
Regardless, that troop's first-line supervisor is probably going to get hammered. Actually the whole chain will probably get hammered. You can never delegate away responsibility. Based on the amount of damage to this kid's hand, this will probably be a career-ending event for someone (or many) other than the Soldier, especially considering this event made it's way into a service-wide safety message. Sad, but true. That's just the way it goes, right, wrong, or indifferent.
Can anyone guess what happens when Soldiers get frostbite in Fort Drum or Alaska? It becomes a Significant Emotional Event for a lot of folks.
ICANHITHIMMAN
05-27-10, 14:14
I once seen a kid shoot him self in the chest 6 times with am M249. 2004 in Afghanistan
Just got this sent to me. unreal. Stupidity hurts...
SWATcop556
05-27-10, 14:44
Suprising how much damage was done. I've seen pics of a 45 ACP round that went off in a cops hand. I guess caliber matters after all.
"It may be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others"
I finally got to use it.:D
My 9 year old is completely grossed out, but at least he understands why I say not to play with live rounds.
theblackknight
05-27-10, 15:46
My gunny posted this official safety report.
The Soldiers hand looks like the crypt keepers, only more red.
Darwin strikes again!
theblackknight
05-27-10, 15:48
I once seen a kid shoot him self in the chest 6 times with am M249. 2004 in Afghanistan
Just out of sheer mind boggledness, please explain.
I saw a picture of a private who put Det-Cord in his mouth not knowing it was explosive. His face was gone. Completely gone. Apparently he lived through it too....
Iraq Ninja
05-27-10, 17:26
I saw a picture of a private who put Det-Cord in his mouth not knowing it was explosive. His face was gone. Completely gone. Apparently he lived through it too....
Huh? Det Cord will not go off by simply putting it in your mouth. You can chew it all day and nothing will happen. I think there is more to the story if it is true.
Gutshot John
05-27-10, 17:31
You ever see the UXO message about the young Marine putting a blasting cap in his mouth?
You're shitting me? How did it detonate? What kind of cap? Was he trying to crimp the fuse with his teeth?
Darwin award candidate. :rolleyes:
Magic_Salad0892
05-27-10, 18:10
There really needs to be an IQ requirement for the military.
Yeah, there was an image in ORM guidance briefs floating around, somewhere around 2002 of some foodblister that either forgot his crimping tool completely or didn't feel like walking back to their staging area to get it from where he'd left it. Decided to crimp the cap with his teeth and didn't go deep enough, I guess.
He lived through it, but the pic they took in the ER or immediately before they started to attempt reconstruction...well just imagine the Predator that Ahhnuld fought, only fat and with no teeth.
RancidSumo
05-27-10, 18:33
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6398/recoveredjpeg3238st6.jpg
Is this the guy?
Yeah, I'm sure that pic has been around the net for years and was the result of about a million different maladies, in typical errornet fashion.
But yes, I have received an Army UXO brief with this very pic stating that this gentleman was a Marine who was injured when he placed a blasting cap into his mouth, and obviously bit down. If that isn't the case, it wouldn't be the first erroneous brief I've ever received. But until then, this is what we were told.
infidelprodigy
05-27-10, 18:50
Stupid DOES hurt....
When I went through the Glock armorer's course couple of years ago, they had a woderful picture example of why not to cover the ejection port with your hand to catch the live round. Apparantly this federal officer was clearing his Glock 22, and the stars aligned for that one-in-a-million shot of the primer striking the ejector just right and sending the round (FMJ luckily) through the center of his hand. The pic has him looking through it at the camera.:eek:
There really needs to be an IQ requirement for the military.
If that were the case there wouldnt be many Soldiers or Marines......
Just kidding everyone....relax!
High Desert
05-27-10, 20:05
I feel sorry for this young man. He did not do this on purpose. Many of us take for granted the skills and common sense we were taught by our fathers, grandfathers, uncles, teachers, mentors and family friends. Who teaches the young people of today how things work? We live in a throw away society now. Is it any wonder young men and women don't understand how to maintain and repair anything? Or how things work?
I would respectfully point out that this thread is going the wrong direction for the level of people here.
HD
theblackknight
05-27-10, 20:12
If that were the case there wouldnt be many Soldiers or Marines......
Just kidding everyone....relax!
No your not!:D
No your not!:D
Of course I am. I have actually met some very intelligent Soldiers and Marines in my travels, though they are fairly rare...J/K.:p
RancidSumo
05-27-10, 20:57
I feel sorry for this young man. He did not do this on purpose. Many of us take for granted the skills and common sense we were taught by our fathers, grandfathers, uncles, teachers, mentors and family friends. Who teaches the young people of today how things work? We live in a throw away society now. Is it any wonder young men and women don't understand how to maintain and repair anything? Or how things work?
I would respectfully point out that this thread is going the wrong direction for the level of people here.
HD
Umm, he was using something that he knew contained explosives as a hammer, he got what he deserved. I'm fairly certain that in his military experience he would have had to of seen a firing pin and learned how it sets off the primer, he should know better.
Can anyone guess what happens when Soldiers get frostbite in Fort Drum or Alaska? It becomes a Significant Emotional Event for a lot of folks.
The immediate supervisor receives an Article 15 along with the soldier. Everyone in Alaska has to go through ALIT (Arctic Light Infantry Training), just so that they at least have some baseline of training on the effects of cold weather. So to give the supervisor a field grade to me is just a CYA type action.
As far as my original comment, I understand NCO's can't be everywhere all the time. I've been an NCO the last 7 years. In my mind though there should have been someone in charge of that particular vehicle overseeing the prep before it rolled out.
Damn what ever happened to "predator guy"? Or is the picture fake?
Who teaches the young people of today how things work?
Spare me. Boot camp, MOS schools, general weapons familiarization, pre-deployment workup.....etc. Safety brief upon safety brief, followed by another safety brief, ad nauseum ad infinitum....
There was a point, at some stage of his training, where he was briefed as to what to do or not to do with ammunition. He was taught. That you think otherwise is groundless, naive and more of a wrong direction as anything you've read. It presupposes gross, systemic negligence on the part of a whole regiment's worth of people who made a good-faith effort to school this yutz to a certain standard, even if that standard was nothing more than being barely sensible enough to not try to ice-skate uphill.
Is that what you're trying to insinuate? It wasn't him, it was society? If so, it was the part of society that sympathized with him instead of making him pay attention.
That kid isn't a misunderstood youth. He isn't a unique, precious snowflake. He isn't a child. He (was) one of America's warfighters, engaged in a business where one can do everything the right way...and still get killed. He IS an idiot. He chose to do the wrong thing for the wrong reason, and got deservedly frakked by the Fickle Finger of Fate for being a freakin' moron.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-27-10, 22:26
I was going to make some pulled pork this weekend until I saw that hand pic.
Crap, if military guys hurt themselves inadvertantly like this, I can't imagine the hurt that you guys reign down on the bad guys on purpose.
High Desert
05-27-10, 23:50
Spare me. Boot camp, MOS schools, general weapons familiarization, pre-deployment workup.....etc. Safety brief upon safety brief, followed by another safety brief, ad nauseum ad infinitum....
There was a point, at some stage of his training, where he was briefed as to what to do or not to do with ammunition. He was taught. That you think otherwise is groundless, naive and more of a wrong direction as anything you've read. It presupposes gross, systemic negligence on the part of a whole regiment's worth of people who made a good-faith effort to school this yutz to a certain standard, even if that standard was nothing more than being barely sensible enough to not try to ice-skate uphill.
Is that what you're trying to insinuate? It wasn't him, it was society? If so, it was the part of society that sympathized with him instead of making him pay attention.
That kid isn't a misunderstood youth. He isn't a unique, precious snowflake. He isn't a child. He (was) one of America's warfighters, engaged in a business where one can do everything the right way...and still get killed. He IS an idiot. He chose to do the wrong thing for the wrong reason, and got deservedly frakked by the Fickle Finger of Fate for being a freakin' moron.
OK, point taken. We are all responsible for our actions and he is responsible for his. I still wish the younger generations had a better understanding of things other than computers. I will defer to your knowledge of the current training systems. The last 17 years in manufacturing, having to teach high school and college grads how to get to work on time before I can teach them how to make something may be skewing my view point.
HD
Belmont31R
05-28-10, 00:12
You all take for granted the extense of military training..... 6 years, and I'm not surprised in the least.
Reality in the Army at least is that todays E-5 is only marginally as good if not worse than the E-4 of 8-10 years ago. We promote people too fast and there is little that leaders can do to prevent someone from getting promoted. If a soldier does not f*&k up and generally does what is asked of him/her they will get promoted regardless if they have the leadership traits of an earthworm. It is not inconceivable that his leadership at some level failed him but if we lay blame on his leadership for failing him I lay blame on the Army (in my case) for failing all of us by forcing promotions too fast, reducing training requirements worrying about soldiers feelings and altogether bitchifying our service at each and every turn. As some of you have also noted we are allowing substandard civilians into the military which continues to feed this problem, people who were barely if at all productive members of society in the first place. Then we dont allow their drill sergeants to "whip" them into shape like we did 10-15 years ago when they were allowed to mentally and physically break recruits down and then build them back up. It makes me sick, its the new age PC, how does that make you feel, your mommy didnt love you enough Bull Shi$ that is killing my Army and our country.
Yes this kids leadership could have failed him but his retarded ass grabbed a f'ing .50cal round and attempted to beat a pin into a hole. His stupidity blew his hand off not his NCO!
John_Wayne777
05-28-10, 06:40
I'm at a loss to understand the impulse to view the guy who did something irredeemably stupid as some sort of victim while holding that everyone with more stripes than him should be hammered simply because they happened to be in some organizational proximity to a hammerhead who couldn't figure out that using live ordnance as a hammer was a bad idea. Where's the sympathy for what kind of damage that crucifixion instinct does to the lives and careers of people whose sole crime was not being clairvoyant?
America is ate the hell up with this idea that a bad outcome must mean that somebody's at fault, and by god we need to find that somebody and string their ass up! If the reasoning behind modern medicine was as sharp as the reasoning backing that impulse, treatment would consist of a guy in a head-dress waving a stick at us and chanting "Ooga-Booga!!" to chase off the evil spirits.
When Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines get hurt, we should take it seriously...but let's not check our brain at the door and insist that someone must be nailed to some wood because they didn't stop poor PFC Hammerhead from doing something straight out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0507/Ibugscartoonmage1.jpg
All that does is promote a poisonous environment where good people are well and truly screwed merely for being in proximity to a less than satisfactory outcome. "Someone should have stopped him!!!"
Yes...and that someone is the legal adult who cared so little for his own safety that he tried caveman engineering with live ordnance. Darwin has done a pretty good job of holding him responsible. Nobody else needs to suffer for it.
Reality in the Army at least is that todays E-5 is only marginally as good if not worse than the E-4 of 8-10 years ago. We promote people too fast and there is little that leaders can do to prevent someone from getting promoted. If a soldier does not f*&k up and generally does what is asked of him/her they will get promoted regardless if they have the leadership traits of an earthworm. It is not inconceivable that his leadership at some level failed him but if we lay blame on his leadership for failing him I lay blame on the Army (in my case) for failing all of us by forcing promotions too fast, reducing training requirements worrying about soldiers feelings and altogether bitchifying our service at each and every turn. As some of you have also noted we are allowing substandard civilians into the military which continues to feed this problem, people who were barely if at all productive members of society in the first place. Then we dont allow their drill sergeants to "whip" them into shape like we did 10-15 years ago when they were allowed to mentally and physically break recruits down and then build them back up. It makes me sick, its the new age PC, how does that make you feel, your mommy didnt love you enough Bull Shi$ that is killing my Army and our country.
Yes this kids leadership could have failed him but his retarded ass grabbed a f'ing .50cal round and attempted to beat a pin into a hole. His stupidity blew his hand off not his NCO!
That's a big Rodge on the Rodge-O-Meter. Absolutely correct.
I'm at a loss to understand the impulse to view the guy who did something irredeemably stupid as some sort of victim while holding that everyone with more stripes than him should be hammered simply because they happened to be in some organizational proximity to a hammerhead who couldn't figure out that using live ordnance as a hammer was a bad idea. Where's the sympathy for what kind of damage that crucifixion instinct does to the lives and careers of people whose sole crime was not being clairvoyant?
America is ate the hell up with this idea that a bad outcome must mean that somebody's at fault, and by god we need to find that somebody and string their ass up! If the reasoning behind modern medicine was as sharp as the reasoning backing that impulse, treatment would consist of a guy in a head-dress waving a stick at us and chanting "Ooga-Booga!!" to chase off the evil spirits.
When Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines get hurt, we should take it seriously...but let's not check our brain at the door and insist that someone must be nailed to some wood because they didn't stop poor PFC Hammerhead from doing something straight out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0507/Ibugscartoonmage1.jpg
All that does is promote a poisonous environment where good people are well and truly screwed merely for being in proximity to a less than satisfactory outcome. "Someone should have stopped him!!!"
Yes...and that someone is the legal adult who cared so little for his own safety that he tried caveman engineering with live ordnance. Darwin has done a pretty good job of holding him responsible. Nobody else needs to suffer for it.
Now speaking only for myself, I am not saying that his chain of command should get hammered. I am simply saying that's just the way it is. At least somebody will get hammered. As a company commander, I am responsible for everything my company does or fails to do. I cannot delegate any of that responsibility away, ever.
And I agree that this nation has too much of a scape-goat mentality: "Someone is at fault, and someone should pay the consequences." But at the same time, much of that is warranted, much of it isn't.
At the end of the day, it's the troop's own fault for blowing his hand off, but he's not the only one who will be held accountable.
Reminds me of that scene in Tropic Thunder.
CarlosDJackal
05-28-10, 17:12
...Can anyone guess what happens when Soldiers get frostbite in Fort Drum or Alaska? It becomes a Significant Emotional Event for a lot of folks.
26-months in Alaska (back when we did not have Gore-Tex issued or available) tells me that it all depends on such things as:
(a) Did the Soldier receive the annual Frostbite and CWI Training?
(b) Was the Soldier issues the proper equipment (IE: Contact Gloves, balaclava, mittens, etc.)?
(c) What were the circumstances that resulted in the Frostbite? For example: Was the Soldier made to stand guard for longer than the weather conditions allowed? Did someone not check on the Soldier somewhere along the way? Was he forced to handle metal items without being allowed to put on the appropriate items? etc.
You can only blame their Supervisors for so much. In 26-years of combined service, I have witnessed (and done) some bonehead maneuvers. A huge percentage of which, had they resulted in an injury, can only be blamed on the one that caused it.
I don't think there is not enough information on the original incident posted for any of us who were not there to be able to point the finger at the NCOIC (as I quoted on my first reply). But I guess that's the society we currently live in. It's everyone else's fault except for the Darwin Candidate who hit the .50 cal round with the hammer. JM2CW.
Yeah, the guy was stupid for using the .50 as a hammer. But, this is one of our soldiers; one of the good guys. He may be dumb as fu** but he deserves some sympathy. This guy will more than likely lose the hand(opinion of the surgeon wife). One poster said he got what he deserved. Really? He deserves to lose a hand for stupidity? Losing a finger may qualify as what he "deserved," not a whole hand.
theblackknight
05-28-10, 19:23
Yeah, the guy was stupid for using the .50 as a hammer. But, this is one of our soldiers; one of the good guys. He may be dumb as fu** but he deserves some sympathy. This guy will more than likely lose the hand(opinion of the surgeon wife). One poster said he got what he deserved. Really? He deserves to lose a hand for stupidity? Losing a finger may qualify as what he "deserved," not a whole hand.
Nope, he just a dumbass, black and white. If using the word"deserve" is too servere for you, just think of it as a appropriate outcome. An extremely dumb act is the cause of a equally horrid end state.
In the op community, there's a infamous term assigned to personell , a hollowed term known as "That Guy". This Soldier is def That Guy. Im just glad he earned the title when(im assuming) other warriors lives wernt at risk. Oh and btw,tax payers, enjoy payng his disability too:mad:
http://milspecmonkey.com/patches/thatguy-batch1.jpg
26-months in Alaska (back when we did not have Gore-Tex issued or available) tells me that it all depends on such things as:
(a) Did the Soldier receive the annual Frostbite and CWI Training?
(b) Was the Soldier issues the proper equipment (IE: Contact Gloves, balaclava, mittens, etc.)?
(c) What were the circumstances that resulted in the Frostbite? For example: Was the Soldier made to stand guard for longer than the weather conditions allowed? Did someone not check on the Soldier somewhere along the way? Was he forced to handle metal items without being allowed to put on the appropriate items? etc.
You can only blame their Supervisors for so much. In 26-years of combined service, I have witnessed (and done) some bonehead maneuvers. A huge percentage of which, had they resulted in an injury, can only be blamed on the one that caused it.
I don't think there is not enough information on the original incident posted for any of us who were not there to be able to point the finger at the NCOIC (as I quoted on my first reply). But I guess that's the society we currently live in. It's everyone else's fault except for the Darwin Candidate who hit the .50 cal round with the hammer. JM2CW.
Understood and agreed. But please don't mischaracterize what I stated. It is unknown regarding all of the circumstances of the incident. That is a given. But you know as well as I do that, as a leader, we have responsibilities that simply come with the territory of leading troops and they cannot be delegated away. As a leader, any one of our subordinates can do any number of things while downtown tonight that could end our career tomorrow. Is it right? No. Is it the truth? Yes. That's just the way it is. And every military leader knows it. It isn't about blame. Blame and responsibility are not the same thing.
And finally, my condolences do go out to the troop in question.
Wow - that is sick ugly - too bad, but Darwin awards.
Tragic, yes, but as sad as it is you might not want a guy dumb enough as this to rely on or as with the blasting cap individual, someone not paying attention to detail and seeking shortcuts with explosives has no business being around them.
Accidents do happen - but these are not accidents.
CarlosDJackal
05-28-10, 22:48
Yeah, the guy was stupid for using the .50 as a hammer. But, this is one of our soldiers; one of the good guys. He may be dumb as fu** but he deserves some sympathy. This guy will more than likely lose the hand(opinion of the surgeon wife). One poster said he got what he deserved. Really? He deserves to lose a hand for stupidity? Losing a finger may qualify as what he "deserved," not a whole hand.
I personally don't think anyone deserves this type of an injury. But as Clint Eastwood said in the movie 'Unforgiven': "Deserves ain't got nuthin' to do with it."
Whether we like it or not, this Soldier did it to himself. And it is ridiculous to think that his chain-of-command should be held responsible for his actions. But I guess I should quit beating this dead horse. :D
Do we know for sure he is that guy? Damn; I hate being put in the position of sticking up for this dumbass, but this is one hell of a severe lesson to learn. Like I said before, a pinky might be the just deserts. I guess we'll all just have to get along;:D and disagree on what he "deserves."
Moose-Knuckle
05-29-10, 13:03
Cause and effect...:rolleyes:
ICANHITHIMMAN
05-29-10, 13:22
Just out of sheer mind boggledness, please explain.
He was a turret gunner not my unit. Put his loaded weapon in the mount(not sop) on the truck and got down for convoy breifing. No one seen him load it.
Once brefing was over he went up on the hood via the front tire by grabling the barrel of his weapon to pull himself up 6 rounds to the chest later he lay dead inside the gate in Kandhar.
Yeah, not a "deserve" sort of thing. Being dumb doesn't mean that he's a jackhole. He could very well be the most extraordinarily affable, kind, pleasant half-wit to deal with that we've never met.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2440/tropicthundersimplejack.jpg[/URL]
wow.. looks like he might get to keep a finger or two, i hope so. just one functional finger can make a pretty big difference in his life. he'll also be getting 75-100% comp, between what the army will retire him with and what the VA picks up. he's set for life, with that.
nobody "deserves" bodily mutilation. we've all done stupid things, and probably most of us (me) have been lucky that a stupid thing we did somehow didn't result in death or serious injury to ourselves or someone else. the army didn't put this guy's hand up to say "see how stupid this guy is? **** him," they put it up to say "see what stupidity DOES? don't do this!" big difference.
poor dumb 18 year old sonuvabitch..
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