View Full Version : Gen4 Glock 9mm 1sthand reports thread
Littlelebowski
05-28-10, 10:49
***Speak only from personal, firsthand experience, please***
Gen4 Glock 17.
First 300 rds had several FTFs (nose of round against left side o feed ramp) and when shooting 1 rd in mag to slide lock, would not lock slide back on empty mag. After 300 rds, the malfunctions went away.
Weapon has over 3k rounds through it now. 2250 without cleaning. Experienced one failure to lock slide back on empty mag using WWB around 1700 rds. Malfunction did not reoccur with hundreds of rounds of the same ammo. Have not shot it with a light attached.
RAM Engineer
05-28-10, 10:58
***Speak only from personal, firsthand experience, please***
Gen4 Glock 17.
First 300 rds had several FTFs (nose of round against left side o feed ramp) and when shooting 1 rd in mag to slide lock, would not lock slide back on empty mag. After 300 rds, the malfunctions went away.
Weapon has over 3k rounds through it now. 2250 without cleaning. Experienced one failure to lock slide back on empty mag using WWB around 1700 rds. Malfunction did not reoccur with hundreds of rounds of the same ammo. Have not shot it with a light attached.
What ammo did you use on the first 300 rounds?
Littlelebowski
05-28-10, 11:02
What ammo did you use on the first 300 rounds?
UMC range ammo.
Gen4 G17
Ghost 4.5 Ranger connector + 6lb Wolff trigger-spring, Ameriglo Defoor Tactical sights
ALL the worn-in/polished trigger guts minus the trigger bar and ejector housing which are new to the Gen4 were imported from my well broken-in 3rd Gen G17 (this includes striker assembly and plunger safety and spring)
Cleaned and lubed with TW25 at the start, none since.
650rds, 1 stoppage (stovepipe) - Federal Champion 115gr FMJ (Wally-Mart, fairly soft shooting, about the same as WWB, UMC and Monarch are both softer)
20rds Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P JHP (my usual carry ammo, felt maybe a bit softer than usual and was accurate as hell)
The stovepipe occurred between rounds 600-650 on round 621 to be exact, the first round out of a supplied-with-gun factory Gen4 17rd mag loaded with 10rds. As I was shooting at 25yrds working on my grip and trigger control at the time, I was paying full attention and it was NOT limp-wrist induced.
The spent cartridge was caught flipped 180 degrees in the slide cut-out deep enough and solid enough in the cut-out to prevent the round below it from chambering fully, on extinct I performed a tap-rack-bang, that didn't clear it so I stopped and took a closer look at it...
Dropped the mag, racked it, which cleared the empty case and chambered the round below it, then finished off the rest of the box of 50.
I think it was the combination of the new stiffer dual-spring recoil assembly combined with an underpowered round, so while it's no big deal really, the jury's still out...
Worth mentioning that I was surprised that in spite of the too-stiff recoil assembly, I did indeed see and feel that the gun shot flatter than my usual 3rd Gen G17 with 15lb ISMI recoil spring and experienced great sight-tracking, going in I thought this was BS, but have to say that now I've seen it with my own eyes... my guess is a lot of explanation goes to the WAY better grip, having owned and put many rounds through both the "normal" 3rd Gen's and the RTF2 variant, I really dig the Gen4 RTF grip treatment, it's a great compromise between the two others.
After the first 3 mags loaded with 10rnds shooting 6 5rnd groups at 10 yards to see if my sight install was ok, the remainder of the first 500 rounds through it were all shot running ToddG's FAST drill and a mix of draw-to-1 shot, draw-to-2 shot, and 3rnd failure-to-stop drills against my iPhone shot timer...
I figured I would have experienced a malf during these first 500 if the new gun was truly unreliable as some have stated, but it did what it's supposed to do and I find that the 2mm smaller grip, better texture and better mag release all just make my favorite pistol work better for me.
FWIW, I've shot nearly 30,000rds through various 3rd Gen G17's (and haven't gotten rid of my most recent one just yet) and have to admit the new model really does fit me better and seems easier to be fast and accurate with even after only a couple sessions with it, I feel ToddG's FAST drill tells you a lot about how a gun is working for you, and I saw some pretty nice numbers and was beating my old best times with the Gen3 fairly consistently right off the bat (although, did have a couple of mags caught up in the grip hole, never knew that stupid grip plug mattered, I'll need one when they're available...).
The new dual-spring set-up seems unnecessary to me, and I won't tolerate very much, so we'll see... If I was going to shoot a match or take a class this weekend I'd use the stronger Winchester NATO-spec stuff and would feel just fine about it though.
I have had one for a few months, still haven't put many rounds through it yet. That will change when I get my new holster. I had some problems with the first mag I put through it, after that, flawless. All ammo has been powder puff competition loads. I am transitioning from the Beretta M9 so I have been dry firing a lot.
Two Gen 4 G17's, 5500 rds through one, 5,000 the other. No malfs of any kind. 95% el cheapo range ammo. I'm buying a 3rd G4 17 this weekend as a spare.
Mine has just over 1500rds. through it now with never a single problem. Never locked the slide back for a week or two, just shot it as is out of the box (I did have one of the first ones and this wasn't talked about when I first started shooting mine). Added a set of Kyle Defoor Ameriglos to it. Can't wait to get the Gen4 G19 and have the same experience.
Ammo has been varied:
Federal - 9BP 115gr. JHP, 124gr. HST, 147gr. HST, 115gr./124gr. FMJ (American Eagle)
Winchester - 115gr. FMJ white box, 124gr. NATO (both the white box and Ranger boxed stuff)
Speer - 124gr. +P JHP and 147gr. JHP
Foreign - Geco and RWS 124gr. FMJ
Been about half with a SureFire X300 attached.
I have a Gen 4 17 that has been flawless without any hicups in about 500 rounds. I have not fired more than that unfortunately due to not having my holster come yet, but that should be here next week to get more practical trigger time.
I have used several types of ammo from WWB, Wally World Fed, PMC and Blazer Brass. I have even tried to limp wrist the gun on purpose with the hopes of seeing it choke, but have yet to have anything happen. I have only fired about 25 rounds through it with an X300 attached since I still don't have a holster.
My personal opinion is that it's still early to tell whether or not the dual spring is going to be a long term problem for some. I think ultimately all changes in a platform are going to see some flaws no matter the manufacturer. I think my biggest complaint still is that there needs to be a tad bit bigger tail on the back of the frame so my hand doesn't get cut all to hell. I know I'm destined to have a permanent scar there from the weekly bleed fest.
I still feel that my Gen 3 19 runs smoother, but this may still be from the newness and slightly different feel of the newer 17 ergos etc. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this gun keeps running fine like a past experiences I've had with Glock. If a mod for the dual spring were to come out soon I'm sure I'd give it a go for I believe this loosens up the tolerances and allows for a slightly more reliable system.
I have fired two. My pal Skinja's - just a few mags which ran great and hooked me into getting my own. But primarily my own which has now 2300 flawless rounds through it as reported on the 2K test thread pasted below.
Pistol: Glock 4th Generation G17
Caliber: 9mm
Ammunition: WWB 115, American Eagle 115, Blazer 115, Black Hills (blue) 115, RWS 124, Independence 115, Rem-UMC 115
Dates of testing: 3/14/2010 – 5/2/2010
Total rounds fired: 2300 rds
Stoppages: 0
Malfunctions: 0
Breakages: 0
Notes: Gun was new-unfired at the start of the test. No lube added beyond what came from the factory. There was no prep of locking the slide back for a week before shooting etc etc. Deliberately induced 2 “limp wrist” failures to cycle with 3 finger grip and extreme low grip which I ain’t counting on the gun as this additional test has not been included in many or any of the guns on this thread. Approximately 50 rounds were fired strong hand only or weak hand only.
Littlelebowski
05-28-10, 16:55
I have deliberately on two occasions tried to make my G17 malfunction via limp wristing with use range ammo. I could not. Videos below.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/th_IMG_0764-1.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/?action=view¤t=IMG_0764-1.flv)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/th_IMG_0765-1.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/?action=view¤t=IMG_0765-1.flv)
Here is mine:
My Gen417 now has about 700 rounds through it. I had one stovepipe in the first 100 rounds with WWB. I just took a training class where I put about 500-600 rounds through it. The class involved mag changes and some one handed shooting. I used new Gen4 mags and older Gen 3 mags. Since the first 100 rounds the gun has been flawless.
Overall I like my Gen3 RTF 17 better due to a better feel and fit for my hand. With that being said the Gen417 is a keeper and I don't see a need to change the recoil spring.
Fire_Medic
05-28-10, 18:39
I have dealt with (3) Gen 4 G17's at my local shop/range where I now work PT on my days off from the dept. All three we sold to the customers. 2 of them were bone stock and I went in with the customer to show them the basics of handling the gun and what not. No malfunctions in either of those 2. On the third gun, I installed a Ghost 3.5 Rocket and Trijicon night sights right out of the box. The customer let me shoot his as well because I had not shot one yet (this was the first Gen 4 I had shot). We put 200 rounds through the gun(Owner, his son, and myself) out of the box only adding weapon shield before shooting. No malfunctions at all in that firearm either.
I have yet to see anyone complain of their Gen 4's nor did I or the owners experience any issues on the 3 I have been able to shoot and lay my own hands on.
That's my humble $0.02 :cool:
wicked_police
05-29-10, 02:47
I posted in the other thread as well.
I got one from the first batch of Gen4 G17's to one of the distributors up here in Canada.
I have a bit over 700 tounds through it. The first couple hundred were Winchester 147gr Super Unleaded.
The next 500 or so were Speer 124gr FMJ.
I played around with it on the range for the first couple hundred rounds. Then I took the Glock armorers course and instructor workshop.
The gun is great, only malfunctions so far were the ones deliberately set up for the Instructor Workshop.
I shot it out of the box. No cleaning or lubing, just load and go.
I'm planning to get another 1 or 2 Gen 4 G17's. I like my Gen3 guns as well and won't be getting rid of them. But the more I shoot the Gen4, the more I lke it.
Shot another 250rds last night, 150 Winchester NATO-spec, 50 Speer lawman, 50 Seller & Bellot... no issues, brings my round count up to 900 with 1 stovepipe over the last couple of weeks since I got it.
Did lots of strong-hand only and weak-hand only stuff, really starting to think the reports of these guns being problematic is rumor more than fact.
Yesterday I put 200 rounds through a co-workers's brand spanking new G17 G4, he put 200 through it at the same time; 400 total, dinging a steel plate at 50 yards. This was the guns first outing. Not one single issue of any kind, the gun performed flawlessly. The gun was new out of the box, no additional lubrication or maintenance preceding the outing. Speer 124 gr. Gold Dot HP's.
Assy Mcgee
05-29-10, 14:52
UMC range ammo.
worst range ammo i've ever tried. will no longer use this stuff. you can't judge a new pistol by how well it works with umc. any issues could very well be the ammo.
worst range ammo i've ever tried. will no longer use this stuff. you can't judge a new pistol by how well it works with umc. any issues could very well be the ammo.
But didn't the gun in question function flawlessly with the same ammo later on?
brushy bill
05-29-10, 21:04
But didn't the gun in question function flawlessly with the same ammo later on?
Ipso facto the problem would lie with the gun or at least the spring system...good point.
Assy Mcgee
05-29-10, 21:07
But didn't the gun in question function flawlessly with the same ammo later on?
this ammo is quite inconsistent. i've gotten flawless boxes, and i've gotten boxes where several rounds were sunk down into the shells, and had lightly charged rounds.
i'd used umc on and off for 15 years, and the quality control has only gotten worse. that's why i no longer use it.
UMC is low quality but I have found it as acceptable for range use as any other cheap ammo. The best shooting ammo I have found for the Gen 4 is the Winchester 124gr NATO ammo that Wal-Mart is selling.
Agreed that the UMC ammo is weak and low quality. But I have used it without problems in a gen 2 Glock 17 & 19 and a number of other firearms.
Assy Mcgee
05-29-10, 23:06
Agreed that the UMC ammo is weak and low quality. But I have used it without problems in a gen 2 Glock 17 & 19 and a number of other firearms.
true-if you pick out all the rounds where the bullets are sunk into the shells.
i actually contacted remington with an email about this last time i bought some. they wanted me to mail the rounds to them for inspection. i never did though, just stopped buying it.
UMC is low quality but I have found it as acceptable for range use as any other cheap ammo. The best shooting ammo I have found for the Gen 4 is the Winchester 124gr NATO ammo that Wal-Mart is selling.
it's interesting that we're now discussing the ammo that works best in glock 9mm's, when before all ammo worked in them... :o
i see a lighter spring assembly going in the 9mm glocks in the future.
Assy Mcgee
05-30-10, 01:14
it's interesting that we're now discussing the ammo that works best in glock 9mm's, when before all ammo worked in them... :o
i see a lighter spring assembly going in the 9mm glocks in the future.
good point :)
I bought my first handgun last month. A Generation 4 Glock 17. The first 200 rounds I ever fired in my life were with my new pistol and, as posted in previous threads, I had dozens of malfunctions. (FTF, FTE and the slide not locking back.) Different and experienced shooters shot the next 50 rounds. (From 200 through 250.) Not a single malfunction. I changed my grip and was instructed to move my thumb off of the slide catch. During the last month I have shot every Friday and today I finished shooting 750 trouble free rounds. I am SUPER excited about this, new to me, sport. (Bought a Colt 6940 too!)
I am a maintenance FREAK and have cleaned the gun 10 times. (every 100 rounds) I did lock the slide back for about a week and have used many types and weights of cheap ammo. I am a believer and wanted a Glock for a long, long time. I knew about internet problems (real or perceived) but wanted the LATEST AND GREATEST. I have been following these threads and was/am hoping that the Generation 4 problems are just rumor.
With the last 750 rounds firing perfectly, it seems likely that the perceived problems are just that. Perceived. I am keeping a close eye on on what could be pre-mature ware inside the frame.
Robb Jensen
05-30-10, 09:50
1530 rounds fired with 3 total stoppages. 1 possible stovepipe type with empty spun around 180 degrees case mouth facing shooter (AE 147gr), 2 slide locked to the rear with rounds still in the mag (Winchester 124gr 9mm NATO). I attribute all three to me being tired and loosing my grip and/or bumping the slide stop lever. I ground down my slide top lever making the tab a lot smaller, I had no stoppages tonight with the slide locked to the rear with rounds still in the magazine.
it's interesting that we're now discussing the ammo that works best in glock 9mm's, when before all ammo worked in them... :o
i see a lighter spring assembly going in the 9mm glocks in the future.
I agree 100%. That said, if all issues disappear once the recoil assembly breaks-in than it's really no big deal...
Honestly surprised the aftermarket doesn't have Gen4 assemblies out by now for us to try...
Honestly surprised the aftermarket doesn't have Gen4 assemblies out by now for us to try...
That would be one quick, reactive, finger on the pulse of the gun boards company.
The gen 4 has been out for 4 months now(give or take)? That's a complex spring and a decent amount of engineering to make (and test); all in reaction to some comments by those on gun forums, in a time frame of 4 or less months.
it's interesting that we're now discussing the ammo that works best in glock 9mm's, when before all ammo worked in them... :o
i see a lighter spring assembly going in the 9mm glocks in the future.
I agree 100%. That said, if all issues disappear once the recoil assembly breaks-in than it's really no big deal...
That may be true... But, it's still a step backward in reliability for Glock.
Given Glock's prior 9mm reliability reputation, and the fact that many don't read gun forums... A large portion of shooters (many of them police or other armed professionals) will not shoot hundreds of rounds through them before carrying them in harms way or relying on them to defend life.
Better grip, softer shooting, more accurate, whatever... If it stovepipes, fails to feed, or anything else that stops the gun, it's not doing what a 9mm GLOCK by reputation is expected to do... RUN
Two failure to feeds during the first box (UMC ammo and Ballisticlean crap). 1,200 rounds of various ammo (Winchester White Box and numerous premium self-defense ammo). All 1,200 rounds have been drills (except for maybe 50 rounds for accuracy). No failures; no incidents. Need another...
I don't see "police officers and armed professionals" experiencing the "problem" that some are experiencing with the G4. For one, the vast majority of police officers do not shoot low-powered crap target ammo; they shoot quality duty loads and the G4 does not appear to have an issue with this kind of quality ammunition. In addition, if there is a matter of break-in (I doubt), then most of this professional purchase group is required to demonstrate proficiency before carrying a new weapon, that means at least a qualification course, if not some practice preceding it, that amounts to a respectable amount of ammunition. I have never met an armed professional that sticks a weapon in his/her holster without trying it out first, let alone being allowed to.
Better grip, softer shooting, more accurate, whatever... If it stovepipes, fails to feed, or anything else that stops the gun, it's not doing what a 9mm GLOCK by reputation is expected to do... RUN
Generally speaking, semiautomatic pistols don't like limp wristing or weak grip. Glock pistols in 9mm were always a little more finicky about it than some others. How many times have you read about a person getting nailed in the head by brass from a 9mm Glock and people come out of the woodwork telling him it's his grip?
With the new spring set up the Glock 17 seems to have even a smaller room for error. That said, in the first 150 rounds with a brand new Gen 4 Glock 17 I had two failures to feed properly. Both times the round was out of the mag, the tip, was on the feed ramp and somehow the round got turned as the action closed. It was with the second round of a fresh mag both times and both instances were towards the start of the range session. It did not do it at the end.
I have not been back to the range yet to test if it was a mag follower thing, an issue with the feed ramp and jacketed, soft point rounds I got at the range (the range makes visitors shoot its ammo), or if it was grip/wrist related. I'm hoping to get out again and try different ammo.
I can say the pistol was comfortable and I was getting very tight groups with it so I'm hoping the failures were from the range ammo. I am not worried yet.
I don't see "police officers and armed professionals" experiencing the "problem" that some are experiencing with the G4. For one, the vast majority of police officers do not shoot low-powered crap target ammo; they shoot quality duty loads and the G4 does not appear to have an issue with this kind of quality ammunition. In addition, if there is a matter of break-in (I doubt), then most of this professional purchase group is required to demonstrate proficiency before carrying a new weapon, that means at least a qualification course, if not some practice preceding it, that amounts to a respectable amount of ammunition. I have never met an armed professional that sticks a weapon in his/her holster without trying it out first, let alone being allowed to.
Hey don’t take my post wrong; I am a fan of Glock. I own several, carry one daily, shoot and recommend them often.
I don’t know if there is a “problem” or not… I said “ If “. I’ll go back and bold it. That’s why I’ve been following these threads, waiting to see if it sorts out. I would think that between this thread, LAV’s thread, the locked thread, and several others here and elsewhere, along with reports that Glock is engineering a solution of some sort; It has the appearance at least that all is not well…
Anyhow, most of what I typed was in response to ck1’s reply.
I agree 100%. That said, if all issues disappear once the recoil assembly breaks-in than it's really no big deal...
I don’t find a break in period acceptable for a duty handgun. I simply wont excuse a non user induced stoppage much past the first magazine. The first stop after that should be down to a worn part or mag needing replaced. Now, I know that 100% reliability is a goal not a reality. But, Glock was pretty much there with the prior 9mm. And I don’t know why it shouldn’t eat pretty much any available commercial ammo either, the current ones do…
kmrtnsn, it’s not the crowd here, and it’s not right, but it’s a reality that there are 10s of thousands of Glocks riding in duty holsters that wont see 500 rounds in a 10 year service life. You are kidding yourself if you don’t see that. As for that practice and qualification, for many that will be a 25 round qual and maybe shoot the rest of the box. For those users a duty gun with a “break in period” is a liability.
I stand by what I said. If there is a problem, even if it’s just break in, that is a step backwards for Glock.
Shit, Littlelebowski I’m sorry for junking up your firsthand experience reports thread. When I made the first post I thought I was reading the LAV thread, I’m subscribed to both. :rolleyes:
Luke Y, I agree with a lot of what you said but I kind of feel like this "first-hand" thread is here just to get a better sense of what guys are really seeing with the Gen4 17's, philosophy aside. I have almost no tolerence for a break-in period as well, but doubt I'd have seen a hiccup if I was shooting duty/sd ammo... Think many of us are seeing that the focus for the new Gen4 was clearly the .40 and the laws of physics deem that means what we're used to with Glock 9mm's has changed.
Wish they had decided to give the 9mm it's own softer assembly right from the start, still, I honestly cannot find a better 9mm pistol to spend my money on right now...
varoadking
05-31-10, 12:50
200 flawless rounds yesterday, and another 400 today thru my Gen 4 G17. All WWB 115FMJ.
That puts me at about 1,500 rounds now, without the first bobble or failure...
I finally have it dialed-in now too...shooting it to POA...finally...
Littlelebowski
05-31-10, 13:00
This thread is about first hand experiences. There are other threads (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=52911) devoted to rumors about fixes and conjecturing on what's "wrong" with the Gen4 9mm Glocks. Let's keep this thread on topic and make it another reference in the invaluable library of knowledge that is M4Carbine.net.
John_Wayne777
05-31-10, 18:21
I was in class this weekend with a gentleman who has had a number of malfunctions with his 4th generation G17. I witnessed one today, a 180 degree stovepipe where the spent casing was caught in the ejection port in a primer-forward position. Ammo was Federal 115 grain FMJ, IIRC.
halfcocked
06-04-10, 10:55
Gen4 G17 - approximately 600 rounds fired so far
Fiocchi - 115 gr - 300 rounds, no problem
American Eagle - 124gr - 150 rounds, no problem
Speer Lawman - 124 gr - 150 rounds, 1 FTE
1 FTE occurred during second or third mag of Speer. The Lawman is not under-powered crappy target ammo. It was during my last range session and occurred right around the 500 round count area.
I cannot recall the last time any of my Glocks had a hiccup, including my new Gen4 G22 (duty gun) which already has 1K+ without a problem. I will continue working the gun to see what happens. Maybe just a fluke and I am attributing it to all the Gen4 speculation??
One round FTE? I wouldn't be too concerned.
Think many of us are seeing that the focus for the new Gen4 was clearly the .40 and the laws of physics deem that means what we're used to with Glock 9mm's has changed.
I find no reason at all to think that is true based on my experience and others reported here.
Last weekend put about 100 rounds though a G4 G17.
It had the small backstrap, which felt good for me.
Very soft shooting.
The funky slide serrations worked OK.
I prefer the Gen 3 guns and have no plans to buy a Gen 4.
The new mag releases look like ass but work great too. I put 250 rds of UMC through a new Gen 4 17 today with no issues. This is Gen 4 17 Number 3 for me. Doesn't hurt to have a spare. :)
wicked_police
06-05-10, 23:50
I had a stoppage with my Gen4 today. Well, I didn't, a buddy I was shooting with did.
Since I don't have any of the seemingly problematic ammo on hand(all I usually shoot is Winchester 147gr super unleaded), I decided to try something different.
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7053/gen4aimpoint.jpg
I took the Micro off my G34 and put it on my Gen4. Prior to todays shooting, I had 697 problem free rounds though the gun, without any cleaning/lubing.
After putting on the Micro, I put 90 rounds through the gun, playing around with zeroing it, without any stoppages.
I decided to zero my SR15(put another optic on it), and while I was, my buddy put some rounds through the Gen4. He made it to 21 rounds, and the 22nd failed-to-feed.
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3671/gen4ftf.jpg
I took the gun, shot the rest of the ammo from the mag, and gave it back to buddy, and he put another 20 rounds through it.
I loaded a few more mags and started shooting it again, and put another 108 rounds before calling it quits with no more stoppages. Although, after 74 rounds, I noticed my POI was shifting.
That's what I get for neglecting to use loctite when putting the Micro on the mount....
So the last 34 were fired without the Micro.
As far as the stoppage, I'm hesitant to blame the gun at this point. There are too many variables. The mags were a mix of older 10rd and some newer 17rd, and my buddy may have had a compromised grip.
So, I have 945 rounds through the gun with no cleaning or lubing, and the gun had one fail-to-feed at the 808 mark.
I'm going to put the Micro back on, get it to 1000rds, and then do the polishing on the trigger bits where needed, and install a '-' connector.
More shooting will follow. :)
I bought my first handgun last month. A Generation 4 Glock 17. The first 200 rounds I ever fired in my life were with my new pistol and, as posted in previous threads, I had dozens of malfunctions. (FTF, FTE and the slide not locking back.) Different and experienced shooters shot the next 50 rounds. (From 200 through 250.) Not a single malfunction. I changed my grip and was instructed to move my thumb off of the slide catch. During the last month I have shot every Friday and today I finished shooting 750 trouble free rounds. I am SUPER excited about this, new to me, sport. (Bought a Colt 6940 too!)
I am a maintenance FREAK and have cleaned the gun 10 times. (every 100 rounds) I did lock the slide back for about a week and have used many types and weights of cheap ammo. I am a believer and wanted a Glock for a long, long time. I knew about internet problems (real or perceived) but wanted the LATEST AND GREATEST. I have been following these threads and was/am hoping that the Generation 4 problems are just rumor.
With the lasty 750 rounds firing perfectly, it seems likely that the perceived problems are just that. Perceived. I am keeping a close eye on on what could be pre-mature ware inside the frame.
FYI Shot rounds 1065 to 1200 today with some cheap _ss Silver Bear. (115 Grain FMJ, $100 for 10 boxes! In Hawaii it definitely doesn't get ANY cheaper than that.) Still no problems AT ALL since eliminating my limp wristing at about round 250. On the other hand, my wife's new M&P 9, which I really like, had three (3) malfunctions with the Silver Bear. Before today she had only only 200 rounds fired with zero (0) malfunctions.
FWIW This morning I would have described my shooting ability as BEGINNER. After today? Intermediate maybe even advanced. It was like someone flipped a switch. Two bullseye's and smaller (still big) groups. AWESOME. I guess that the probably 200 dry fires I shoot each week while I am watching Justified has paid off. I got so excited I bought and XDm9 too!
Speaking of ammo my local Wal-Mart told me the six box rule was no longer in effect so I celebrated by buying 10 X 100 rd boxes of WWB. :) 9 mm is $23.97 per box of 100 so Federal is still cheaper at $8.47 per box of 50. Even that cheap barely powered Federal that WMart sells shoots with no issue in my 4G 17's. The UMC I shot today seemed snappy in comparison.
wicked_police
06-06-10, 00:13
Forgot to add.
Once I took off the Micro, I shot a mag through one of my Gen3 G17s, then shot the Gen4.
There was a noticeable(to me...) difference in how they felt.
The Gen4 was definitely 'softer' feeling, and also flatter shooting as well.
varoadking
06-06-10, 10:53
I was finally able to get my KKM match barrel to fit in my Gen4 G17 after 1,500 rounds...not sure why...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/Mancave/G-17008.jpg
Put another 300 rounds of WWB 115 grain FMJ thru it today and, after a minor shift of the Defoor rear sight, I was poppin' 'em dead to POA.
The ghost 3.5# connector didn't hurt anything either...
1,800 rounds - 0 failures of any kind...
275 rounds of Magtech 115 gr fmj today brought my G4 G17's round count to just over 2600 and the gun has yet to bobble. I've settled on the Large backstrap for the time being.
I've yet to clean this gun or add any lube since buying it and commencing the 2K round test. Sorta thinking I might soon just because I can.
I switched the Warren Sevigny front sight from the tall .125" width to their .115" width. Didn't notice much measurable difference there. Might have seen a loss of precision with some of the longer shooting but need more data points on that.
Agreed. Plus I don't think they were needed in the 1st place so it felt like a change just to be different.
3658 rounds. 8 stoppages. The first two stoppages the gun failed to pick up a round, but fully ejected the spent casing. The remaining 6 stoppages were all 180 stovepipes.
Gave the pistol it's first cleaning at this 2600 round count and it's internals look like new out of the box except the barrel shows some typical wear from lockup. Breachface looks like new vs older Glocks.
Had a stovepipe the other day while shooting an IDPA match (UMC mega-pack), quick tap rack bang and no further issues.
That makes 2 stovepipes over around 1300rds... not bad, but more than I'm used to with the 3rdGen Glocks, I blame the spring being too stiff combined with the UMC not being the most powerful or consistent stuff, if I get another one I may be ordering an aftermarket rod with 15lb ISMI spring from Jager Products, but since I'm not sure if that'll make the gun illegal in SSP I'm holding off for now...
wicked_police
06-09-10, 19:16
Monday night I decided to work on my Gen4 a little while I was getting some loctite on the micro and mount.
I took it apart and polished the contact surfaces on the trigger parts, and installed a Glock '-' connector.
I didn't do any cleaning, just wiped the surfaces I was working on and then put it back together(with a touch of lube on the contact surfaces) after I finished.
It still doesn't feel quite as nice as a good Gen3 trigger, but it doesn't seem to be affecting my shooting much.
Yesterday, I put another 290 rounds through the gun, all Winchester 147gr Super Unleaded, using the same 10 and 17rd mags from the weekend. And I had no malfunctions at all.
So, I now have 1235 rounds through the gun, 504 with the Aimpoint Micro on it, and only had one issue at around the 800 mark when someone else was shooting the gun.
I'm going to be attending an Aim Fast, Hit Fast course in a couple weeks, so the Micro is going to come off and a set of regular sights will be going on.
I'm still extremely happy with it, and another one will be on order soon.
My next experiment will be trying a Gen3 trigger bar.
I'm late to the party on this one but I went out and bought a Gen 4 17 a couple weeks ago. I locked the slide to the rear and put it away for a week.
After a week, I lightly cleaned and lubed the gun. Took it to the range on four separate occasions over the past week. Here's how my round count breaks down.
Trip 1:
400 Winchester WB 115 gr.
100 Federal AE 115 gr. FMJ
-(All rounds fired off hand)
Trip 2:
200 Winchester WB 115 gr.
300 Federal AE 115 gr. FMJ
-(100 rounds strong hand, 100 rounds weak hand, 300 off hand
Trip 3:
300 Federal AE 115 gr. FMJ
200 PMC 115 gr. FMJ
-(100 rounds stong, 100 weak, and 300 off hand)
- Surefire x300 attached
Trip 4:
300 Federal AE 115 gr. FMJ
200 PMC 115 gr. FMJ
-(50 rounds strong, 50 weak, and 400 off hand)
-Surefire x300 attached
2,000 rounds total and no stoppages or malfunctions. I did shoot my Gen 2 19 before I shot the G4 17 and in the last session and notice less muzzle flip...the 17 shoots slightly flatter.
I'm going to experiment in the coming days with the medium and large grips. I'm also not going to clean/lube the gun till I hit the 3,000 mark.
Is anyone else getting fine brass particles on the lower right side of their barrel hood? At first I thought it was from the Federal Champion ammo, but it has now happened with different ammo as well. After shooting several hundred rounds the lower half of my barrel hood is completely covered in brass particles. I'm starting to think something other than the recoil spring might be responsible for the poor reliability I am getting, especially compared to what others are reporting.
Also, for those that had problems with holding the slide stop down on Gen3 guns, are you having the same problems with the Gen4? I had intermittent failures to lock back with my Gen3, but haven't had a single failure to lock back with my Gen4.
I just hit the 2000 mark on my Gen 4 G17 and I've had no malfunctions. I've got to say this is a soft shooting gun. Flat handling and on one handed drills that is a big bonus. I'm not missing my 1911 as much now!
varoadking
06-13-10, 13:54
I just hit the 2000 mark on my Gen 4 G17 and I've had no malfunctions.
Hit that today as well. Still no issues.
I think the crappy PMC used in the two pieces that experienced problems had more to do with reports of failures than anything else.
Mine has been 100% with WWB...
I just finished running some drills with 150 rounds expended and I'm getting steadily more impressed with the soft and flat shooting of my 17. My teammate was running his Gen34 and he, like me, felt the Gen 4-17 shoots flatter. My trigger is a heavy but at this time, I can't tell if it's a hinderance.
I'm wondering how the 02 dual spring is going to "feel" to the one now.
Littlelebowski
06-13-10, 18:07
Little over 2800 rds without cleaning now. Shot 600 rds yesterday. All WWB. No issues.
The latest issue of Guns magazine has an article on the Gen 4 22. Free download here;
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS0810/
The new mag releases look like ass but work great too. I put 250 rds of UMC through a new Gen 4 17 today with no issues. This is Gen 4 17 Number 3 for me. Doesn't hurt to have a spare. :)
I've heard of having a spare, but a spare to back up a spare?
RAM Engineer
06-15-10, 11:51
I've heard of having a spare, but a spare to back up a spare?
I always follow the rule of three for any defensive gun I think is worth keeping.
Little over 2800 rds without cleaning now. Shot 600 rds yesterday. All WWB. No issues.
Did Wal-Mart run out of UMC?:p
500 more rounds of PMC Bronze through mine. Total round count at 2,500 now. No problems to report.
This is getting monotonous. ;) Wish we could start running some Gen 4 G19s.
Magic_Salad0892
06-16-10, 05:26
LittleLebowski: I personally thank you for starting this thread.
It's nice to read results about a gun I haven't ran hard yet. I also quite enjoy knowing that they're FIRST HAND experiences. I hate hearing ''my friend said that his recoil spring broke at 100 rounds!'' or something stupid.
From the bottom of my heart.
Thank you, and the others than are running them and posting results.
Your efforts are appreciated.
For the record/thread: My G17 Gen4 has no issues running a Gen3 G34 barrel I had threaded suppressed.
Suppressor is AAC EVO-9.
Robb Jensen
06-16-10, 05:54
VI bought a Jaeger Glock Gen4 recoil spring with an ISMI spring. The spring was way too weak so I replaced it with a factory Glock 3rd Gen spring. I'll put some rounds through it tonight to see if he spring will make it work better with 147-158gr ammo. I've had more than a few 180 degree stovepipes with 147gr.
This is getting monotonous. ;) Wish we could start running some Gen 4 G19s.
no kiddin. Im not in any hurry to replace my Gen3 19 though.
Of course the sooner I get a few hundred rounds through a Gen4 19, the sooner I can replace my Gen3. :cool:
I have seen the first pics of an "02" recoil spring unit from a new Gen 4 G17 owner on another board. First report and pics I've seen of this rumored creature. Owner reported this slide is noticeably easier to retract than that on his first Gen 4.
I look forward to trying these 02's out to compare the recoil handling characteristics vs original. It looks increasingly likely that the high level Glock source reporting Glock would be putting Gen 3 springs in the Gen 4's wasn't high enough. :D [come'on, roll with it]
Our two full strength Gen 4's were just smokin' in a local match Saturday. Fast handling and great accuracy. Except for one head shot I pulled low into Mr. NoShoot's forehead.
wicked_police
06-21-10, 23:50
Another 160 rounds through my Gen4 today with the Aimpoint Micro on it. Would have shot more but was working with a couple other things as well.
Brings the total up to 1395 with the one malfunction about 500 or so rounds ago by another shooter.
Still really happy with it and will be getting another soon.
wicked_police
07-01-10, 08:35
Did an Aim Fast, Hit Fast course last week with my Gen4. I put just under 1000 rounds through the gun over the 2 days.
I had one moment when I thought I had a stoppage, but it was just operator error. While doing a reload, I hit the slide release lever before the mag was seated. Which caused the gun to go click instead of bang.
My other Glocks have mostly sat idle since I started shooting the Gen4.
I'm also looking forward to trying the Gen4 G19 too.
Just hit 3700rds and haven't had a hiccup since around round 1000 or so... Shooting it in "SF" form (went back and forth between all 3 a bunch of times too...).
Really like it, probably took 3000rds to really break-in the original recoil assembly though (I'm one of the few who's got the softer "02" spring too and the one I've got pretty much sucks).
I tried out a 02 spring unit today in my Gen 4 G17. It ran fine. It was noticeably easier to retract the slide. In shooting it made the gun handle much like a Gen 3. Indistinguishable to me. It also affected the trigger pull. Made it feels less distinct, like when I put in an OEM "-" connector. I saw no advantage since my stock setup is extremely reliable anyway - across 3100 rounds.
varoadking
07-11-10, 19:03
Not the prettiest; accurate; or expensive piece I own, but after thousands of flawless rounds, my Gen4 G17 is certainly one of my most valued...
My Gen4 G17 experiment is over. I gave it about 4500rds to convince me, but it would short-stroke about every 200-300rds and decided it was time to move on. I tried the 02 spring too, but it IMO it's more of a band-aid than a real fix, didn't really change the slide-speed just weakened the lock-up.
Traded it in for a G17RTF2, have decided it's my favorite Glock ever, love the grip texture and the fish gills... installed a set of Ameriglo Defoor's, Ghost 4.5 Ranger connector and Wolff 6lb trigger-spring, 15lb ISMI recoil-spring on the stock rod, and a Vickers extended mag release, after a 15 minute polish session it's quickly turned into the best pistol I've ever had hands down. Just over 1200rds so far, 0 issues, I may clean it once I pass 2500...
Seems a lot of guys have got Gen4 G17's that work just great, mine wasn't one of them.
It's interesting that you had the 02 spring and had issues.
It's interesting that you had the 02 spring and had issues.
Yeah, as far as I can tell the 02 spring is just the original spring minus a few coils off the outer spring, seems to affect the locking/unlocking of the action more so than slide-speed or slide-stroke resistance.
It sounds like a rather rushed attempt to solve the issue some people have had. Hard to imagine Glock didn't test this but who knows at this point.
My Gen 4 G17 round count is now 3700 with no problems yet. Today it ran 50 rounds of the Fiocchi 158 grain subsonic which is the lightest recoiling 9mm round I've ever fired. No problems with it. That is with the original "unmarked"recoil spring. I have a spare 02 spring which I ran a few rounds through a few weeks ago, and it ran fine with it and front sight jumping in recoil was slightly more pronounced and I removed it and returned to original.
Wick, I like your RDS on the G17, did you try it with a light attached to the pistol? Any difference with a light attached? I'm thinking of putting the Docter/Trijcon RDS on the G22/G35.
platoonDaddy
08-01-10, 11:45
It's interesting that you had the 02 spring and had issues.
+1 mine came with the "02" springs.
platoonDaddy
08-04-10, 08:28
Picked up my G17 Gen 4 yesterday (7 day state wait and 3 days by dealer) of course minus the fired casing that is on its way to MD State Police for their 6million dollar database.
As previously stated it has the '02' spring.
Fired 250 Remington UMC 115gr MC without any stoppage.
Notes: when I ran a magazine through on the clock, friggin casings were hitting my head, neck and shooting forearm. When taking slow shots, casing went off to the right out of harms way, as it should.
Anyone else have problem with casing striking them?
Update: when I dissembled to clean the weapon the recoil-spring wasn't seated correctly. Last night when getting familiar with the weapon I disassembled and reassembled multiple times. Each time the recoil-spring was seated correctly. The next time at the range, I will check following one magazine downrange.
re cases striking them . . .
Every day all day long for more than a decade with Gen 2s, Gen 3s and Gen 4s. With a G17L sometimes the empty case would land on the slide just behind the ejection port. Only observed with lightly loaded 115 gr fmj training loads.
I think it has been accurately explained by others as a poly frame gun which has flex; being fired rapidly - so grip pressure changes during a string of fire and varying degrees of how one's wrists/forearms are oriented during strings of rapid fire etc etc.
I saw similiar variability during 2200 rds through a M&P Pro 9 when shooting ammo like WWB, UMC, etc.
However I've never observed this with "defense" ammo. And since I can count on one hand the number of stovepipes across tens of thousands of rounds of training ammo across 10+ years of shooting with Glocks of every 9mm model on the market, it doesn't matter to me. I think 4 of the 5 fingers counting would have been with a Gen 3 17L actually.
platoonDaddy
08-06-10, 11:08
Range report - 6th Aug
Put 100 rounds of Federal 115 Grain FMJ RN down range this am without any problems. WalMart is selling them for less than $10 per box of 50.
I really like the G17, sweet weapon.
Shot both my 17 and 19 Gen 4s yesterday
just got the 19, had already put 400 or so through the 17
both shot well, no issues whatsoever with a variety of ammo
Just finished putting 500 rounds of Fiocchi 115 grn ball through my Gen4 G19. Shot weak and strong hand only, and used two 33 round G18 mags. No stoppages whatsoever. Next is 200 rounds of my carry ammo, 124 +p Gold Dot. It shoots very well, I like it a lot.
I've been out with my Gen4 17 twice so far, total of about 300 rounds of pmc 115gr and maybe 50 rounds of old mixed carry ammo (147 and 124 +p rangers). I've have also been leaving the slide locked back at night and doing quite a bit of dry-fire/slide racking. My gun came with the unmarked recoil assembly.
I've had no stoppages or slide-lock problems shooting with 2 hands or strong hand-only, but had 3 FTF's shooting "other strong hand"-only (about of about 10 rounds of pmc). Next time I'm out I'll try carry ammo with the weak hand to see if that makes a difference. I have actully done a fair bit of training left-hand-only with older glocks and never had a feeding issue, so I'm going to watch this.
A couple other things to note:
- First trip out I shot the gun stock. Even with the crappy sights and heavy trigger it grouped tighter than any Glock I've ever owned (probably 8 or 9 guns mostly 17s, 19s and a 34 or 2). It grouped 5 rounds of pmc into 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards, and 10 hammer-speed shots into a single oblong 1 1/2" hole at 35 feet.
- Before my 2nd trip, I installed sights (dawson precision adjustables), swapped the trigger bar out for a gen3 and installed a glock factory - connector. This improved the sight picture and trigger feel enormously. However, my 25 yard groups were larger by about an inch with this setup (3 1/2 -4 inches) leading me to suspect that the little tab on the side of the trigger bar pushes on the slide and tightens lock-up, contributing partially to the mechanical accuracy of the Gen4 (along with the new recoil spring).
I've swapped the gen4 trigger back in and I'll try to confirm my theory at the range soon.
platoonDaddy
08-11-10, 15:35
Friggin frustrating day at the range today, 75 rounds of American Eagle 124 Grain FMJ downrange and all over the friggin board. What a bitch.
The other day WalMart $9.50 Federal all grouped within 2.5" for 150 rounds.
Today was certainly a blow to my ego, will head off tomorrow with Federal & American Eagle and see if it is me or the ammo.
Realize they are both Federal, but what a friggin difference or I just had a miserable trigger today. Come on Thursday morning!
Dang!
OUT
I have had my gen4 17 for a few months now. I have around 1200 rounds through it. Mine has the unmarked spring in it. In the first 150 rounds i had 2 stovepipes and one where it fail to go into battery. Fast forward til today and it had around 850 trouble free rounds through it with WWB and winchester white box ammo. but today it had a failure to go into battery and a stovepipe. Todays stovepipe was probably me, i was three mags in with constent shooting, i probably limp wristed it. any idea why i have had the failure to go into battery? The gun wasnt clean, but it was by no means dirty, i only shot about 100 rounds through it before today.
I have had my gen4 17 for a few months now. I have around 1200 rounds through it. Mine has the unmarked spring in it. In the first 150 rounds i had 2 stovepipes and one where it fail to go into battery. Fast forward til today and it had around 850 trouble free rounds through it with WWB and winchester white box ammo. but today it had a failure to go into battery and a stovepipe. Todays stovepipe was probably me, i was three mags in with constent shooting, i probably limp wristed it. any idea why i have had the failure to go into battery? The gun wasnt clean, but it was by no means dirty, i only shot about 100 rounds through it before today.
Only when I deliberately induce a limp wrist in testing such - with a loose three finger grip or lowering my grip 3/4" down from full high grip.
Unfortunately, with the seeming lack of quality control on new ammo it may very well be the problem.
Unfortunately, with the seeming lack of quality control on new ammo it may very well be the problem.
No kidding about QC of today's ammo. It's more difficult to troubleshoot problems because I don't feel comfortable assuming anhyone's ammo is "to spec".
No kidding about QC of today's ammo. It's more difficult to troubleshoot problems because I don't feel comfortable assuming anhyone's ammo is "to spec".
Very true. A tried and true Gen 3 19 didn't fully eject/chamber once during a magazine of Blazer 115 gr last Sunday. And that case of Blazer demonstrated very erratic accuracy during slowfire/rested drills.
Gen 3 mind you. LOL And it doesn't concern me in the slightest. Tap rack drill and press on.
Littlelebowski
08-12-10, 11:34
Very true. A tried and true Gen 3 19 didn't fully eject/chamber once during a magazine of Blazer 115 gr last Sunday. And that case of Blazer demonstrated very erratic accuracy during slowfire/rested drills.
Gen 3 mind you. LOL And it doesn't concern me in the slightest. Tap rack drill and press on.
Had that happened with a Gen4, we'd be hearing about the defects in the new design :D
Some of youse guys kill me!
I've had first hand (and have seen or heard of) probs off and on w every generation of Glock 9s, and I've had them all since my first in 1986!
The Gen4 G19 I have been shooting this week is working better (no probs so far) than some Gen 1/2/3 Glock 9s I have had! Some Gen1/2/3 gave me probs w cheap/weak ammo, none w premium/hotter stuff too BTW. Which gen did NYPD have some probs with? Gremlins hop on and, and then they hop off; live w it or find a new god...
The Glock 9/40s ran the same spring. Which was "undersprung", "just right", or "oversprung"? If the new recoil spring unit is a "fix" for the perceived/actual "underspringing" of the 40s, maybe the 9s are now a tad "oversprung"? Beats me!
They have all been good guns, but none of them has been perfect, perfecter, perfectest, or pefecterexpealadocious!
OK- just back from the range with my Gen4 G19. Ran it with 200 rounds of Federal American Eagle 115FMJ using some old school Glock orange mags. I had several FTFs with the last round in the magazines appearing to nose dive into the feed ramp. Most of the time it was when a relatively inexperienced shooter was running the pistol, but it did occur once with me. At first I thought the orange mags were to blame, but I have never experienced malfunctions prior with them (having recently run them w/o a problem in a Ken Hackathorn 2 day bullet launching fest!) Besides those 5 or so FTFs, the pistol ran as expected.
Anyone else experience a similar situation?[
I finally managed another range session with my Gen4 17. I ran about 100 rounds of PMC, another 200 rounds of cheap walmart Federal, and some more mixed Rangers (probably 50 rounds, mostly 147gr). I spent probably 1/2 of the session shooting right and left handed only, and had no feed issues at all, though I did experience failure to lock back the slide a couple of times with light loads. The carry ammo reliably locked back the slide.
Aside from those 3 early FTFs fired weak-hand-only, I've had no stoppages of any kind in about 600 rounds so far.
My theory about the Gen4 trigger bar enhancing accuracy wasn't definitively confirmed, but my 25 yard groups were tighter than the previous session with a Gen3 trigger bar installed. I'd be interested to see if others have seen anything similar switching them back and forth.
demkofour-- see my previous post. My FTFs we as you described but weren't isolated to the last round. I can guarantee they happened through a combination of the new tight recoil spring and less-than-firm grip on the gun (weak-hand-only). Leave the slide locked back for a week, shoot it some more and I'd betcha the issues go away.
I'm now up to 500 rounds in two range sessions through my G19 Gen4 - not a single hiccup yet. Ammo was 124 gr NATO FMJ, Fed 9MS 147 grain, and Fed 147 gr HST.
I don't notice the recoil reduction, but my 20 yo daughter who refused to shoot my older G19 last year because it was "too snappy" ran through 100 rounds with no problem today, so I guess there's something to it!
Regards,
Kevin
Alpha Sierra
08-14-10, 17:43
Got my 17 G4 on Thursday.
So far 128 rounds down the pipe, all my reloads (4.2 gr Unique, 147 grain RNFP cast lead at about 900 fps).
So far so good.
Had that happened with a Gen4, we'd be hearing about the defects in the new design :D
That is so true. It amazes me to see a whole line of firearms being denigrated because of a few early teething problems with a few guns.
Ga Shooter
08-14-10, 21:03
Well finally got to take my Gen4 G17 to a local IDPA club match today. Ameriglo Hack sights are the bomb!! The 17 ran flawlessly and is the best feeling pistol I have ever shot in my life. We only used 50 rounds today but the majority ( all but about 12 rounds) was weak hand only. Mine has the unmarked springs. I know it is not a lot of rounds but its getting a good start.
Alpha Sierra
08-15-10, 14:38
Put 135 rounds on it today. One stovepipe while shooting strong handed. Could not duplicate. Believe I may have limp wristed. About 10 rounds of weak hand shooting with no problems. No problems shooting with an iso grip.
I'm liking this thing more and more. Someone here may get a chance to pick up some M&Ps and a bunch of mags for a discount.
TheSmiter1
08-15-10, 15:09
Put 135 rounds on it today. One stovepipe while shooting strong handed. Could not duplicate. Believe I may have limp wristed. About 10 rounds of weak hand shooting with no problems. No problems shooting with an iso grip.
I'm liking this thing more and more. Someone here may get a chance to pick up some M&Ps and a bunch of mags for a discount.
Hmmm... What caliber are the M&Ps....? ;)
Alpha Sierra
08-15-10, 15:14
Hmmm... What caliber are the M&Ps....? ;)
9x19. One is a full size and one is a compact. PM me if interested.
I know a lot of folks are digging the 4th gen Glocks. The 4th gen Glocks have a lot of great features. The grip texture is a definite improvement over the stock 3rd Gen pistols. The 4th gen Glocks are very accurate. Perceived recoil is a bit less with the 4th gen pistols. The 4th gen trigger pull is a pound or two heavier than on the 3rd gen pistols, but breaks cleanly (a 3rd gen trigger bar can be used to reduce this and Glock states they are also working on a new 4th gen trigger bar to rectify the issue). The 4th gen mag release has sharp corners, but is larger and easier to use than the stock 3rd gen release, although to be honest I prefer the 3rd gen Vickers mag release.
Unfortunately we have recently observed several 4th gen Glocks with significant problems. I personally was firing a 4th gen G17 that spontaneously went into slide lock—the slide stop was not engaged and the slide could not be moved forward. I later witnessed a very experienced rangemaster have a similar problem with a 4th gen G17. It is likely that these problems were caused by the double recoil springs binding and locking up the pistols. Glock is reportedly sending improved recoil springs to try, as these were early 4th gen pistols. We also observed an ejector fall out of the mag well of a 4th gen G17 when the slide was racked to clear it--very bizarre. I was at another facility and watched a SWAT deputy going through a shoot house with a 4th gen G22 holstered in a 6004; he inadvertently slammed the butt of the pistol against a door frame and dislodged bottom of the backstrap, leaving it hanging by the top pin.
Another large west coast agency also reports numerous serious problems with 4th gen Glocks.
As always, YMMV...
"Another large west coast agency also reports numerous serious problems with 4th gen Glocks."
Do you know if this is with 9mm or 40 caliber Gen 4s?
Finally got to take it out shooting this weekend.
250 rounds total.
150 of WWB in 115 gr and 100 rounds of Federal American Eagles in 124gr.
Not one failure of any kind.
Robb Jensen
08-16-10, 06:45
Shot a USPSA Pistol match yesterday using my Gen 4 Glock 17.
It was a and 82 round match. I got 76 Alphas and 6 Charlies.
I ended up 1st place Production and won all but one stage in Production.
Shot a USPSA Pistol match yesterday using my Gen 4 Glock 17.
It was a and 82 round match. I got 76 Alphas and 6 Charlies.
I ended up 1st place Production and won all but one stage in Production.
GREAT shooting! Is there anything worth repeating insofar as shooting impressions from the match as they specifically pertain to the new pistol?
I sort of assume this sort of performance is sort of "par" for you. So the gun didn't hurt you any.
platoonDaddy
08-23-10, 17:47
Very frustration day at the range today, why you ask well that is a very good question. I have thousands (maybe 5K) of rounds downrange with my G26 and never an issue.
Today with my Gen 4 17 with 02 springs, three failed too eject issues with my WalMart $9.95 Federal 9mm 155 Grain FMJ RN. The issue occurred after over 800 rounds downrange and 600 of them was the same ammo without a problem. They occurred with different Gen 4 magazines and for sure it had nothing to do with limp-wrist.
Believe me as a former 11B, the weapon is cleaned following each session. Dang, what a bitch heading off to WalMart to purchase 500 more rounds and will hit the range on Thursday. Need to regain my confidence.
Update 25 Aug - they are mailing me another "02" spring
Alpha Sierra
08-23-10, 17:57
96 more rounds downrange this Sunday for a total of 359 (same handloads I always use, 147 gr RNFP lead with 4.2 gr of Unique which never ever bobbled in my M&Ps) and another stove pipe.
Called Glock and ordered an 02 recoil spring. Should have it yet this week before going to training on Saturday.
littlejerry
08-25-10, 13:53
New Gen4 19 here. I've only been able to put ~60 rounds through it so far. 50 of those were Federal champion. Ejection seemed week as the cases were landing on my arms/shoulder.
I had one bizzarre malfunction where a spent case was able to rotate 180 degrees and load backwards into the chamber... I have never seen this happen before and I can't imagine the acrobatics it took to achieve it.
10 rounds were Winchester RA9B(147gr bonded HP). Ejection was completely normal.
I fired the Gen4 side by side with my Gen3 19 and observed a very different recoil impulse between the two. The gen4 is noticeably softer. I also appreciated the new grip texture and thinner grip(the thin grip seems to help me get a quick grip on the pistol when drawing).
One oddity is the difficulty in reassembling the slide onto the frame with the new gen4. I have to ensure that the firing pin block is depressed(I.E. firing pin is forward and the block is suck "up") otherwise the the trigger bar with crash on the firing pin block when attempting to install the slide. On my Gen3 there is no problem reassembling with the firing pin block in either position. I wonder if this is an indication of different slide/frame fitment or perhaps slightly differently shaped trigger bars?
platoonDaddy
08-25-10, 15:32
96 more rounds downrange this Sunday for a total of 359 (same handloads I always use, 147 gr RNFP lead with 4.2 gr of Unique which never ever bobbled in my M&Ps) and another stove pipe.
Called Glock and ordered an 02 recoil spring. Should have it yet this week before going to training on Saturday.
Glad to read they are mailing you one, thought they might throw up the warranty statement about reloads.
Alpha Sierra
08-25-10, 16:39
Glad to read they are mailing you one, thought they might throw up the warranty statement about reloads.
They didn't ask about the ammo and I didn't mention what kind of ammo I used.
I just told the CS guy that I had two FTE in 350 rounds and wanted to try an 02 spring. He just said OK and where do I send it. No muss, no fuss, no charge.
Now, before anyone thinks I'm shooting bunny fart loads, the ammo I make chronos at a 15 shot average of 1009 fps. With a 147 grain bullet. That's duty load power, not IDPA gamer stuff.
Yesterday another 104 rounds went down the pipe without a hitch. Weak hand, strong hand, both hands, slow fire, rapid fire, didn't matter the pistol ate it all.
I have a class on Saturday where I'll be shooting mostly 115 grain ball. If the 02 spring gets here before then I'll take it just in case.
New Gen 4 G17, initial cleaning and lube. No number on the recoil spring. No locking the slide back for an extended period or anything like that.
300 rnds WWB (115 fmj)
100 rnds My reloads (115 gr fmj)
40 rnds Federal hst (124 gr jhp)
A single 180 degree stove pipe as some others have experienced. One mag had issues locking back on an empty mag with my reloads. Seemed to only happen when I loaded only 1 or 2 rounds in the mag. Couldn't recreate it with the factory ammo or the other mags.
Subjective stuff:
I really dig the grip without using any backstraps. The new grip texture seems to be much grippier. My only other frame of refernence has been Gen 3 19's and 26's but this one definately feels softer shooting. I also seem to shoot it better than my 19. I will keep updating this thread as I get more rounds through it. Also, I shant be cleaning this till the 2000 round mark.
That is so true. It amazes me to see a whole line of firearms being denigrated because of a few early teething problems with a few guns.
Well, frankly, they ask for it, with all that "Glock Perfection" crapola. I like my Glocks, but I'm no Kool-aid drinker. I'm sure most of us have seen Gen. 3 Glocks shit the bed, but if there were NO problem identified by Glock with the Gen. 4 9mm's, I don't think there'd be an "02" recoil spring assembly. Of course, with any pistol, it's incumbent upon the user to do his diligence, to ensure, upfront, that the pistol will run as near 100% as possible, and then to prepare himself for failures. I can forgive a pistol for the occasional failure, but forgive myself?... Depends on the occasion, I guess.
RAM Engineer
08-25-10, 21:14
Well, frankly, they ask for it, with all that "Glock Perfection" crapola.
That's just advertising copy. What do you want them to say, "GLOCK: we're a pretty good choice."
Sig Sauer's current slogan is "Reliability. First Time, Every Time." To me it sounds like they are advertising 100% reliability, which is mathematically impossible.
Ruger's slogan is "Rugged, Reliable Firearms." While I won't dispute that they ARE firearms, I think many would dispute the "Rugged, Reliable..." part of the statement, particularly for certain of their guns.
Taurus (bless their hearts) claims to be the "World's Foremost Pistol Maker." Wow...I was not aware of that.
Smith & Wesson is "Made in the USA since 1852".
Well, I guess SOMEONE had to have a non-hyperbolic slogan...
My Gen4 G17 experience up to date.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53356
That's just advertising copy. What do you want them to say, "GLOCK: we're a pretty good choice."
Sig Sauer's current slogan is "Reliability. First Time, Every Time." To me it sounds like they are advertising 100% reliability, which is mathematically impossible.
Ruger's slogan is "Rugged, Reliable Firearms." While I won't dispute that they ARE firearms, I think many would dispute the "Rugged, Reliable..." part of the statement, particularly for certain of their guns.
Taurus (bless their hearts) claims to be the "World's Foremost Pistol Maker." Wow...I was not aware of that.
Smith & Wesson is "Made in the USA since 1852".
Well, I guess SOMEONE had to have a non-hyperbolic slogan...
ROFL! Well played.
That's just advertising copy. What do you want them to say, "GLOCK: we're a pretty good choice."
Sig Sauer's current slogan is "Reliability. First Time, Every Time." To me it sounds like they are advertising 100% reliability, which is mathematically impossible.
Ruger's slogan is "Rugged, Reliable Firearms." While I won't dispute that they ARE firearms, I think many would dispute the "Rugged, Reliable..." part of the statement, particularly for certain of their guns.
Taurus (bless their hearts) claims to be the "World's Foremost Pistol Maker." Wow...I was not aware of that.
Smith & Wesson is "Made in the USA since 1852".
Well, I guess SOMEONE had to have a non-hyperbolic slogan...
"Glock Excellence" would draw much less fire.
I know people have been calling Glock for an '02' Spring assembly for their previously bought Gen 4 17's. As an update, the 17 I purchased today came with an '02' installed. This particular model still has the "Made in Austria" on the right side of the frame.
I read that they are updating the trigger bar as well, but I wouldn't know if that's been done or not, not having a comparison model. I will say I have a hard time telling the difference in pull weight from my gen 3, but that's hardly scientific.
Alpha Sierra
08-27-10, 17:06
Got my 02 spring assembly today. Judging by the effort it takes to do a chamber check and not lock the slide back, I'd say it has a noticeable reduction in rate over the original design.
Right now it's in the gun and I will leave it there for pistol class tomorrow. Expect to put 300 - 500 rounds through it. I'm taking the original spring as a backup but don't expect to need it.
I also had a set of Ameriglo Defoor sights installed today and they are a step change up from Glock's.
Alpha Sierra
08-28-10, 18:43
Ran the 02 spring at class today. Round count: 550 on the money. Ammo types: 100 rounds of WWB 115 gr, 450 rounds of Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 115 gr. Malfunctions/stoppages/breakdowns: 0.
Gun ran like a Glock.
Recap
Total rounds to date: 1013
Malfunctions: 2 stovepipes
Rounds since last malfunction: 654
Ammo used
My reloads (147 gr lead RNFP/4.2 gr Unique/WSP primers/MV 1009 fps)
WWB 115 gr
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 115 gr FMJ
New Gen 4 G17, initial cleaning and lube. No number on the recoil spring. No locking the slide back for an extended period or anything like that.
300 rnds WWB (115 fmj)
100 rnds My reloads (115 gr fmj)
40 rnds Federal hst (124 gr jhp)
A single 180 degree stove pipe as some others have experienced. One mag had issues locking back on an empty mag with my reloads. Seemed to only happen when I loaded only 1 or 2 rounds in the mag. Couldn't recreate it with the factory ammo or the other mags.
Subjective stuff:
I really dig the grip without using any backstraps. The new grip texture seems to be much grippier. My only other frame of refernence has been Gen 3 19's and 26's but this one definately feels softer shooting. I also seem to shoot it better than my 19. I will keep updating this thread as I get more rounds through it. Also, I shant be cleaning this till the 2000 round mark.
Second outing today not cleaned since initial cleaning. 100 rounds WWB, 200 rounds my reloads no issues. Total round count 740 with 1 FTE.
Round count on first Gen 4 G17 is 4131 with no stoppages. Put in Scherer 3.5 connector which I've found provides a cleaner break than the Glock OEM 3.5/"-" connector. Combined with the other subtle Gen 4 internal changes, trigger pull feels closer to a shot smooth Gen 3 5.5.
I see my best precision slowfire and best times/hits up close and fast with the large grip adaptor.
controlledpairs2
08-29-10, 16:37
i bought a gen4 g19 recently from OGC tactical. if any of you guys are on oahu, you need to go see carter and eugene at OGC, great shop, better prices, top quality customer service.
anyhoo, so within the first 10 rounds, my slide lock fell out of the pistol (its the lever that allows for the slide to be removed from the frame during disassembly). i didnt realize this until i had conducted 2-3 more speed reloads. i found the malfunction while conducting an admin reload and presscheck, when i tapped the rear of the slide into battery. i noticed that the slide moved forward another half-inch. i then saw that the slide lock was missing, found it on the floor, but couldnt find the slide lock spring. if i had more experience with pistols and glocks in general, i would have realized that the mushy sensation while firing the pistol was the slide's overtravel to the front after loading the next round.
i took the glock back to OGC and they reinstalled the part (the spring was still in the pistol, caught between the recoil spring assembly and the barrel).
300 rounds since then, no issues. im not sure what the deal was, maybe the slide lock was installed backwards at the factory. anyone here have any ideas?
if anything, this experience has only strengthened my faith in glock products. my pistol was missing what i believe to be a critical component, but still continued to function and fire. everything thats mechanical can fail, but im glad that my glock wouldnt have let me down if that was a real fight.
Robb Jensen
08-29-10, 17:40
i bought a gen4 g19 recently from OGC tactical. if any of you guys are on oahu, you need to go see carter and eugene at OGC, great shop, better prices, top quality customer service.
anyhoo, so within the first 10 rounds, my slide lock fell out of the pistol (its the lever that allows for the slide to be removed from the frame during disassembly). i didnt realize this until i had conducted 2-3 more speed reloads. i found the malfunction while conducting an admin reload and presscheck, when i tapped the rear of the slide into battery. i noticed that the slide moved forward another half-inch. i then saw that the slide lock was missing, found it on the floor, but couldnt find the slide lock spring. if i had more experience with pistols and glocks in general, i would have realized that the mushy sensation while firing the pistol was the slide's overtravel to the front after loading the next round.
i took the glock back to OGC and they reinstalled the part (the spring was still in the pistol, caught between the recoil spring assembly and the barrel).
300 rounds since then, no issues. im not sure what the deal was, maybe the slide lock was installed backwards at the factory. anyone here have any ideas?
if anything, this experience has only strengthened my faith in glock products. my pistol was missing what i believe to be a critical component, but still continued to function and fire. everything thats mechanical can fail, but im glad that my glock wouldnt have let me down if that was a real fight.
Sounds like the slide lock was installed backwards. The notch of the slide lock should face the shooter and point upwards. That notch engages the barrels lug. If it's in backwards it won't engage and upon firing the slide assy may come off.
i bought a gen4 g19 recently from OGC tactical. if any of you guys are on oahu, you need to go see carter and eugene at OGC, great shop, better prices, top quality customer service.
anyhoo, so within the first 10 rounds, my slide lock fell out of the pistol (its the lever that allows for the slide to be removed from the frame during disassembly). i didnt realize this until i had conducted 2-3 more speed reloads. i found the malfunction while conducting an admin reload and presscheck, when i tapped the rear of the slide into battery. i noticed that the slide moved forward another half-inch. i then saw that the slide lock was missing, found it on the floor, but couldnt find the slide lock spring. if i had more experience with pistols and glocks in general, i would have realized that the mushy sensation while firing the pistol was the slide's overtravel to the front after loading the next round.
i took the glock back to OGC and they reinstalled the part (the spring was still in the pistol, caught between the recoil spring assembly and the barrel).
300 rounds since then, no issues. im not sure what the deal was, maybe the slide lock was installed backwards at the factory. anyone here have any ideas?
if anything, this experience has only strengthened my faith in glock products. my pistol was missing what i believe to be a critical component, but still continued to function and fire. everything thats mechanical can fail, but im glad that my glock wouldnt have let me down if that was a real fight.
Your report of this failure is not the first that I have read recently. A screw up during production of some units, perhaps?
Robb Jensen
08-30-10, 06:22
I haven't forgotten about the pics I promised. I'll get some today. I've had a crazy busy past week. I'll get some pics of my Glock 17 Gen 4 without a beveled slide (at the recoil spring) and some of the new Glock 17 Gen 4 with the beveled slide.
I haven't forgotten about the pics I promised. I'll get some today. I've had a crazy busy past week. I'll get some pics of my Glock 17 Gen 4 without a beveled slide (at the recoil spring) and some of the new Glock 17 Gen 4 with the beveled slide.
Thanks, I really want to see them.
Robb Jensen
08-30-10, 18:28
Here's a pic of the my Glock 17 Gen 4 slide next to a Glock 19 Gen 4. The Glock 19 has the bevel and the recoil spring is easily removed without possibly damaging it by forcing it off the slide.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/556pics/slides.jpg
platoonDaddy
08-30-10, 20:15
Here's a pic of the my Glock 17 Gen 4 slide next to a Glock 19 Gen 4. The Glock 19 has the bevel and the recoil spring is easily removed without possibly damaging it by forcing it off the slide.
Dang, I must be blind don't see the difference.
Robb Jensen
08-30-10, 20:18
Dang, I must be blind don't see the difference.
The one on the right is beveled (a step down) so that the recoil spring is easily removed. I can see it easily on my NetBook computers 10" screen.
look closer to the barrel hole....
It looks like a counterbore, a bevel would be an angle cut.
look closer to the barrel hole....
It looks like a counterbore, a bevel would be an angle cut.
The pictures came through very clear. My March 2010 purchased 17 and new 19 reflect same difference.
Alpha Sierra
08-30-10, 21:16
look closer to the barrel hole....
It looks like a counterbore, a bevel would be an angle cut.
Correct. It is a counterbored hole.
So when is Glock recalling the non-counterbored G17 slides?
Correct. It is a counterbored hole.
So when is Glock recalling the non-counterbored G17 slides?
Uh-oh.:eek:
platoonDaddy
08-31-10, 02:52
look closer to the barrel hole....
It looks like a counterbore, a bevel would be an angle cut.
Took over to son's MAC and very clear, I have a VERY old video adapter.
Thanks guys.
Robb Jensen
08-31-10, 04:32
Correct. It is a counterbored hole.
So when is Glock recalling the non-counterbored G17 slides?
I'm just calling it what they (Glock, the manufacturer of the gun) called it at the Advanced Glock Armorers class I was in last week in Smyrna GA.
They aren't recalling the slides.
Alpha Sierra
08-31-10, 05:30
I'm just calling it what they (Glock, the manufacturer of the gun) called it at the Advanced Glock Armorers class I was in last week in Smyrna GA..
Understood. The gun's manufacturer is still using incorrect terminology, at least by US machining and drafting standards.
They aren't recalling the slides.
Nice. Since my 02 spring got stuck in the slide last night while taking the pistol down, I just ordered a Glockmeister Gen 4 spring/rod assembly.
Robb Jensen
08-31-10, 08:22
There was talk of making some sort of bushing to insert.on the recoil spring assembly to fix these early slides.
Alpha Sierra
08-31-10, 08:52
Please do let us know when you find out that the spring bushing will become reality.
With the 02 spring, my gun runs reliabily (no FTEs or FTFs) but I am still uneasy with the end of the spring binding in the guide rod hole. So I will run a Glockmeister spring assembly until Glock comes up with a permanent fix for the early 17s.
platoonDaddy
08-31-10, 09:25
There was talk of making some sort of bushing to insert.on the recoil spring assembly to fix these early slides.
When you say early slides, what is meant by early? My fired casing that went to the socialist state of Maryland was dated: 6/16/2010. The spring is "02" and my guide rod hole doesn't have a counterbore or bevel.
Also was there any discussions of dry-firing or was the tech support guy I talked to full of crap?
Alpha Sierra
08-31-10, 09:34
The spring is "02" and my barrel hole doesn't have a counterbore or bevel.
If the guide rod hole (not the barrel hole) does not have a counterbore on its side facing the gun's internals then it is an early slide.
Just because you have an 02 spring does not mean you will have an updated slide. Evidently they are two separate engineering changes with different implementation dates (or serial number).
platoonDaddy
08-31-10, 09:41
If the guide rod hole (not the barrel hole) does not have a counterbore on its side facing the gun's internals then it is an early slide.
Just because you have an 02 spring does not mean you will have an updated slide. Evidently they are two separate engineering changes with different implementation dates (or serial number).
Corrected my initial post it is the guide rod hole and it doesn't have the counterbore therefore it must be early slide.
Thanks for pointing out my verbiage.
Robb Jensen
08-31-10, 10:04
When you say early slides, what is meant by early? My fired casing that went to the socialist state of Maryland was dated: 6/16/2010. The spring is "02" and my guide rod hole doesn't have a counterbore or bevel.
Also was there any discussions of dry-firing or was the tech support guy I talked to full of crap?
Don't know about the tech support guy. Firing pin/strikers are now MIM I'm certain very large amounts of dry fire without a A-zoom rubber primer'd dummy round can affect the life of the firing pin/striker just as it will it SIGs, Berettas, and just about any other handgun.
Early slides meaning no bevel (no counterbore). What I do to remove my recoil spring is the push on the muzzle end while spinning pulling the spring assy. This way it's not stressing the end of the assy.
ICANHITHIMMAN
08-31-10, 10:21
***Speak only from personal, firsthand experience, please***
Gen4 Glock 17.
First 300 rds had several FTFs (nose of round against left side o feed ramp) and when shooting 1 rd in mag to slide lock, would not lock slide back on empty mag. After 300 rds, the malfunctions went away.
Weapon has over 3k rounds through it now. 2250 without cleaning. Experienced one failure to lock slide back on empty mag using WWB around 1700 rds. Malfunction did not reoccur with hundreds of rounds of the same ammo. Have not shot it with a light attached.
So I have a Glock 19 Gen 3 and just yesterday I got my Gen 4 on the permit and took it to the range with the Gen 3 to do a side by side.
The thing I noticed is when I put the new mags that came with the Gen 4 in my Gen 3 pistol the slide locked back every so often in the middle of the mag.
With the old mags that I have been using with the Gen 3 pistol both pistols ran with zero malfunctions but the new mags caused the slide to lock back.
Just my observations
Ga Shooter
08-31-10, 10:36
Don't know about the tech support guy. Firing pin/strikers are now MIM I'm certain very large amounts of dry fire without a A-zoom rubber primer'd dummy round can affect the life of the firing pin/striker just as it will it SIGs, Berettas, and just about any other handgun.
Early slides meaning no bevel (no counterbore). What I do to remove my recoil spring is the push on the muzzle end while spinning pulling the spring assy. This way it's not stressing the end of the assy.
What do you call large amounts of dryfire? On my G17 Gen4 I have been dry firing every day for about 2 weeks before I picked up some dummys on saturday. Each "session" is about 100 "fires". Should I replace anything or don't worry?
Thanks
Robb Jensen
08-31-10, 12:22
What do you call large amounts of dryfire? On my G17 Gen4 I have been dry firing every day for about 2 weeks before I picked up some dummys on saturday. Each "session" is about 100 "fires". Should I replace anything or don't worry?
Thanks
A few a day would be light a hundred a day would be considered heavy dryfire.
When you say early slides, what is meant by early? My fired casing that went to the socialist state of Maryland was dated: 6/16/2010. The spring is "02" and my guide rod hole doesn't have a counterbore or bevel.
Also was there any discussions of dry-firing or was the tech support guy I talked to full of crap?
Picked up my 17 Gen 4 today, shipped with the 02 spring and slide did NOT have the counterbored slide. It was test fired on 8/04, so when were these newer slides released?
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-10, 19:07
The thing I noticed is when I put the new mags that came with the Gen 4 in my Gen 3 pistol the slide locked back every so often in the middle of the mag.
With the old mags that I have been using with the Gen 3 pistol both pistols ran with zero malfunctions but the new mags caused the slide to lock back.
Interesting, I've been wondering about the Gen4 mags.
So I have a Glock 19 Gen 3 and just yesterday I got my Gen 4 on the permit and took it to the range with the Gen 3 to do a side by side.
The thing I noticed is when I put the new mags that came with the Gen 4 in my Gen 3 pistol the slide locked back every so often in the middle of the mag.
With the old mags that I have been using with the Gen 3 pistol both pistols ran with zero malfunctions but the new mags caused the slide to lock back.
Just my observations
Just my own experience but in using my Gen 4 mags in my Gen 3 G19, they performed flawlessly.
Robb Jensen
08-31-10, 21:38
Just my own experience but in using my Gen 4 mags in my Gen 3 G19, they performed flawlessly.
All newest 9mm Glock mags have the same follower (the 9mm 6). The 9mm 6 follower extended the width of the slide stop lever tab on 9mm mags so that when you reverse the mag catch the follower will still completely engage the slide stop lever, the older 9mm 4 and 9mm 5 would sometimes slip past the slide stop lever when the mag catch was used in lefty style. That's the only functional difference.
If a new mag makes an older gun malfunction it's very likely the old gun needs a new recoil spring. Recoil springs should be replaced at 5K rounds or before. Mags and recoil springs work in unison if ones much stronger or ones much more worn than the other you can have issues with reliability.
Alpha Sierra
09-01-10, 04:29
All newest 9mm Glock mags have the same follower (the 9mm 6). The 9mm 6 follower extended the width of the slide stop lever tab on 9mm mags so that when you reverse the mag catch the follower will still completely engage the slide stop lever, the older 9mm 4 and 9mm 5 would sometimes slip past the slide stop lever when the mag catch was used in lefty style. That's the only functional difference.
If a new mag makes an older gun malfunction it's very likely the old gun needs a new recoil spring. Recoil springs should be replaced at 5K rounds or before. Mags and recoil springs work in unison if ones much stronger or ones much more worn than the other you can have issues with reliability.
Thank you for stopping an internet avalanche of "Glock Gen4 mags are defective and flawed".
Forgive the newbie question, but how does a worn recoil spring effect slide lock? I could understand feeding or extraction issues, but slide lock. Would have though that was more related to out of spec follower or slide lock.
Alpha Sierra
09-01-10, 13:43
Forgive the newbie question, but how does a worn recoil spring effect slide lock? I could understand feeding or extraction issues, but slide lock. Would have though that was more related to out of spec follower or slide lock.
My guess is that slide speed would be too high, not giving the slide lock lever a chance to come all the way up before the slide passes by on its way back to battery.
Robb Jensen
09-01-10, 13:56
Forgive the newbie question, but how does a worn recoil spring effect slide lock? I could understand feeding or extraction issues, but slide lock. Would have though that was more related to out of spec follower or slide lock.
A weak recoil spring can cause all kinds of problems. An old test of the recoil spring is to take the unloaded properly lubed pistol. Rack the slide. Dryfire the gun. Hold the trigger to the rear. Aim the muzzle toward the ceiling. Ease the slide down on an empty chamber (baby it down) and release it just before it's completely in battery. If the pistol fails to go into battery under it's own spring pressure then you should replace the recoil spring.
Recoil springs are cheap and should be a maintenance item just like tires, belts, hoses, oil and filters on your car replace your recoil springs 5K rounds or less.
The new Glock 17 mags both 3rd Gen (whats left out there) and the new Glock 17 mags with the left and ambi cut mag catch slots (what we're calling 4th Gen mags) both have 11 coil mag springs the same springs are now used in all full size mags for G17, 20, 21, 22, 31, and 37. The so-called 4th Gen mag is now the standard magazine for Glock 17s and 22s. Previously full sized guns used 10 coil springs.
9 coil springs are used in compacts and subcompacts like the G19, 23, 29, 30, 32, 38, & 39.
Glock first used the 11 coil springs in Glock 22s with rails for mounted lights. Glock decided that all full sized guns would benefit from them.
i.e. there is no functional difference between a Glock 17 Gen 3 mag (9mm 6 follower) we have on the wall for sale at VA Arms and my Glock 17 Gen 4 mag that came with my gun....other than my Gen 4 mag will work if I run my mag catch as a lefty. Both have 9mm 6 followers and 11 coil springs.
My new mags that came with my Gen 4 work in my Glock 17 Gen 1, Glock 17 Gen 2 and my Glock 19 Gen 2 just fine (all have pretty fresh recoil springs). They also work fine in my friends Glock 34 Gen 3.
Alpha Sierra
09-06-10, 09:37
Another 171 rounds down the pipe on the Gen 4 G17 with 02 spring without a hitch. This was 111 147 grain lead reloads and 60 124 grain plated TCHP reloads.
Total round count is now 1184, rounds since last stoppage (FTE) 825
RAM Engineer
09-06-10, 14:57
Forgive my ignorance, but are the Gen4 G22s and G19s going to get the counterbored recoil spring hole also?
There SURE isn't a lot of metal left on the lower front slide, now that they've removed so much for the new recoil spring. I wonder how a Gen4 and Gen3 would compare in a muzzle-down drop test.
I do love my Gen4 G22, though...
TheSmiter1
09-06-10, 15:05
Forgive my ignorance, but are the Gen4 G22s and G19s going to get the counterbored recoil spring hole also?
There SURE isn't a lot of metal left on the lower front slide, now that they've removed so much for the new recoil spring. I wonder how a Gen4 and Gen3 would compare in a muzzle-down drop test.
I do love my Gen4 G22, though...
I still believe that they should have either completely redesigned the slide to have significant mass added (two ounces or so), or simply make caliber-specific springs for the Gen 3 Glocks. I don't like the idea of taking more steel away, either.
brushy bill
09-06-10, 18:46
[QUOTE=gotm4;746483]Firing pin/strikers are now MIM QUOTE]
Anyone know the part number for the non-MIM firing pin so I can stock up on a few from Brownells or Midway?
Robb Jensen
09-06-10, 18:52
Firing pin/strikers are now MIM
Anyone know the part number for the non-MIM firing pin so I can stock up on a few from Brownells or Midway?
It's the same part number. But nothing to worry about. If you're firing pin has the new hash marks indicating caliber then it's probably MIM. Like I said earlier Geissele and USGI AR/M4/M16 triggers are MIM yet nobody loses sleep over it.
Alpha Sierra
09-06-10, 19:00
[QUOTE=gotm4;746483]Firing pin/strikers are now MIM QUOTE]
Anyone know the part number for the non-MIM firing pin so I can stock up on a few from Brownells or Midway?
Porsche and BMW connecting rods are MIM too. I bet they are crap. Don't you think?
I love internet metallurgists and engineers
For what it's worth. I finally got to compare my 17 to a real early release version of the gen 4, and there was more than just the counterbore on the inside of the slide. On the outside, there is an actual bevel around the guide rod hole in the slide that doesn't exist on my friend's early version. I'll try to get a pic to show as soon as I can.
Alpha Sierra
09-07-10, 05:57
For what it's worth. I finally got to compare my 17 to a real early release version of the gen 4, and there was more than just the counterbore on the inside of the slide. On the outside, there is an actual bevel around the guide rod hole in the slide that doesn't exist on my friend's early version. I'll try to get a pic to show as soon as I can.
I figured that bevel was going to be necessary to allow the tip of the guide rod to go back in through because it is almost always off center to the hole.
I'm getting a Glockmeister single spring guide rod assembly today and will test fit it for interference along the sides of the frame at full slide retraction. If it clears it will get a live fire test next time I have an opportunity to run 100+ rounds through the gun.
brushy bill
09-07-10, 20:03
[QUOTE=brushy bill;751704]
Porsche and BMW connecting rods are MIM too. I bet they are crap. Don't you think?
I love internet metallurgists and engineers
Not sure what provoked that, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out...
For what it's worth. I finally got to compare my 17 to a real early release version of the gen 4, and there was more than just the counterbore on the inside of the slide. On the outside, there is an actual bevel around the guide rod hole in the slide that doesn't exist on my friend's early version. I'll try to get a pic to show as soon as I can.
The latest G22 Gen4s that I have seen don't have this, so I am wondering if that change or changes is being made to them or if this is just a G17 issue/improvement.
RAM Engineer
09-07-10, 20:51
I would NOT want the job of configuration management at Glock.:D
littlejerry
09-11-10, 09:03
I took apart my new Gen4 19 last night while showing it to a friend. When I took it apart I noticed some odd wear by the front frame rails.
It appears that the recoil spring assembly is battering the frame under recoil. You can clearly see where the assembly is impacting the ledge in the photo and drag marks along the walls. Plastic is now missing from the damage as well. None of this was present when I inspected the gun after purchasing. All parts are 100% STOCK and the only ammo used has been Federal 9mm from Wal-Mart and a small amount of Winchester RA9B. Total round count is ~300 rounds.
Glock has been contacted but of course it is the weekend and I won't receive a response until Monday at the earliest. Will report back after I talk to them.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/gth801e/Wep/Impactarea.jpg
I really don't understand how this design works in the sub compacts, but not in the full size. I can't honestly see how the engineers at Glock didn't see these same results. Hmmm!!!
Alpha Sierra
09-11-10, 10:35
I took apart my new Gen4 19 last night while showing it to a friend. When I took it apart I noticed some odd wear by the front frame rails.
It appears that the recoil spring assembly is battering the frame under recoil. You can clearly see where the assembly is impacting the ledge in the photo and drag marks along the walls. Plastic is now missing from the damage as well. None of this was present when I inspected the gun after purchasing. All parts are 100% STOCK and the only ammo used has been Federal 9mm from Wal-Mart and a small amount of Winchester RA9B. Total round count is ~300 rounds.
Glock has been contacted but of course it is the weekend and I won't receive a response until Monday at the earliest. Will report back after I talk to them.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/gth801e/Wep/Impactarea.jpg
My G17 has the same marks and here's how I finally fixed the problem:
Got the Glockmeister guide rod today.
Measuring everything that needs to be measured, I do not see how a Glockmeister rod and spring could cause the damage that the Jager rod assembly is supposed to have caused on the pistol shown in the GT thread.
The front spring retaining flange on the GM guide rod/spring is .492" in diameter. That is the widest moving part in the entire assembly. The narrowest portion of the frame where the spring would pass through (between the front rails and locking block) is .527" wide. That's a radial clearance of .0175".
In contrast, the large spring coil OD of the stock Gen 4 spring assembly is .515", leaving only .006" of clearance per side.
On top of that the GM guide rod/spring assembly does not bind or get hung up on anything.
This is, BTW, a stock weight (17 lb) spring in the GM guide rod. I am not a fan of messing with different spring rates in pistols that I need to rely on.
My Gen4 17 has the same wear, i replaced it with the Jager spring. there was a thread on GlockTalk about how the Jager spring was causing this but that is BS its the stock spring doing it.
Just returned from the Mid-South Institute basic pistol-rifle course. Over the course of five days (first two exclusively pistol), I fired somewhere between 2,800 and 3,000 rounds through my Gen4 G19.
Prior to attending the course, I thoroughly cleaned the pistol and lubed with Slip2000 EWL; after that, no maintenance or cleaning of any kind was performed on the pistol.
Magazines were a grab bag of "training" mags from my team - anywhere from 3-7 years old, various "generations" mixed in, none of them have been updated or had springs replaced - and, frankly, I doubt any of them have ever been cleaned - even after we used them for Simunition mags!
Results - 0 malfunctions (except for accuracy issues caused by the loose actuator nut behind the trigger!). My frame has, however, developed "wear" marks similar to those pictured above, so I'm eager to hear what Glock has to say about that!
Regards,
Kevin
Alpha Sierra
09-11-10, 20:46
My Gen4 17 has the same wear, i replaced it with the Jager spring. there was a thread on GlockTalk about how the Jager spring was causing this but that is BS its the stock spring doing it.
I agree. My dimensional checks strongly point to the large diameter spring in the assembly rubbing.
When you only have .006" radial clearance there is no room for slide slop and we all know Glock slides do move around side to side.
I suspect the wear on mine will stop now that I've gone to a Glockmeister guide rod.
Porsche and BMW connecting rods are MIM too. I bet they are crap. Don't you think?
I love internet metallurgists and engineers
Billet rods are still 6000x better than just cheepie cast stockers. They are not cheap however :)
I cannot imagine measuring the reliability of my handgun with a three digit number... My USP has been through over 1000 pretty easily with all kinds of ammo and has never missed a beat.
I am looking into a Glock 34, but if they seem to have these mysterious issues then maybe I should just stay away.
littlejerry
09-11-10, 21:21
Billet rods are still 6000x better than just cheepie cast stockers. They are not cheap however :)
I cannot imagine measuring the reliability of my handgun with a three digit number... My USP has been through over 1000 pretty easily with all kinds of ammo and has never missed a beat.
I am looking into a Glock 34, but if they seem to have these mysterious issues then maybe I should just stay away.
The mysterious issues are with 4th Gen Glocks using the new guide-rod assembly. 3rd Gen 9mm glocks are the definition of reliable.
I'm carrying my well-used 3rd Gen 19 until my 4th Gen is checked out by Glock and fully vetted in a few classes.
Just returned from the Mid-South Institute basic pistol-rifle course. Over the course of five days (first two exclusively pistol), I fired somewhere between 2,800 and 3,000 rounds through my Gen4 G19.
Prior to attending the course, I thoroughly cleaned the pistol and lubed with Slip2000 EWL; after that, no maintenance or cleaning of any kind was performed on the pistol.
Magazines were a grab bag of "training" mags from my team - anywhere from 3-7 years old, various "generations" mixed in, none of them have been updated or had springs replaced - and, frankly, I doubt any of them have ever been cleaned - even after we used them for Simunition mags!
Results - 0 malfunctions (except for accuracy issues caused by the loose actuator nut behind the trigger!). My frame has, however, developed "wear" marks similar to those pictured above, so I'm eager to hear what Glock has to say about that!
Regards,
Kevin
I've 1500 rds now through my G4 G19. No stoppages of any sort. This includes rounds with a X300 attached. GTG.
The mysterious issues are with 4th Gen Glocks using the new guide-rod assembly. 3rd Gen 9mm glocks are the definition of reliable.
I'm carrying my well-used 3rd Gen 19 until my 4th Gen is checked out by Glock and fully vetted in a few classes.
Hope it works out. I'm now approaching 10K of centerfire fired this year, most of of it 9mm through Glocks and 7/8 of that through Gen 4's and the only stoppages I've had this year was one each in my carry Gen 3 G19 and one in my carry Gen 3 G26. Anything can fail.
But the Gen 4's are performing great.
littlejerry
09-11-10, 21:26
I've 1500 rds now through my G4 G19. No stoppages of any sort. This includes rounds with a X300 attached. GTG.
JHC,
Does your 19 have any of the wear patterns or missing material that is seen in my photo above?
I'm curious as to whether or not the wear and flaking material will have any impact on function. As kjdoski mentioned, his Glock went 2800 rounds without any malfunctions yet shows the same wear as mine.
I honestly can't imagine that Glock didn't see this issue during development. They may have just decided that the wear and material removed was inconsequential.
ETA- I haven't experienced any malfunctions since the first magazine(a single 180 degree stovepipe). Granted I only have 300 rounds through it.... but at this point a visual inspection was the only indication that anything is "wrong." The pistol functions fine. My concern is how this may affect the longevity of the pistol.
brushy bill
09-11-10, 21:34
Billet rods are still 6000x better than just cheepie cast stockers. They are not cheap however :)
I cannot imagine measuring the reliability of my handgun with a three digit number... My USP has been through over 1000 pretty easily with all kinds of ammo and has never missed a beat.
I am looking into a Glock 34, but if they seem to have these mysterious issues then maybe I should just stay away.
fhpchris,
I agree. The wisecrack quote wasn't mine...it was Alpha Sierra's in response to my request for part # for non-MIM. I'm not an MIM fan, but never claimed to be a metalurgist or engineer. He is an MIM fan and I believe engineer, and apparently wants everyone to know it. Quote it his.
brushy bill
09-11-10, 21:39
My G17 has the same marks and here's how I finally fixed the problem:
Got the Glockmeister guide rod today.
Measuring everything that needs to be measured, I do not see how a Glockmeister rod and spring could cause the damage that the Jager rod assembly is supposed to have caused on the pistol shown in the GT thread.
The front spring retaining flange on the GM guide rod/spring is .492" in diameter. That is the widest moving part in the entire assembly. The narrowest portion of the frame where the spring would pass through (between the front rails and locking block) is .527" wide. That's a radial clearance of .0175".
In contrast, the large spring coil OD of the stock Gen 4 spring assembly is .515", leaving only .006" of clearance per side.
On top of that the GM guide rod/spring assembly does not bind or get hung up on anything.
This is, BTW, a stock weight (17 lb) spring in the GM guide rod. I am not a fan of messing with different spring rates in pistols that I need to rely on.
I'll be interested to see a range report with the Glockmeister part...In the interest of full disclosure, I'm NOT and engineer or metalurgist, but don't know that measuring a spring without live fire demonstrates the problem is "finally fixed".
donlapalma
09-12-10, 00:54
I took apart my new Gen4 19 last night while showing it to a friend. When I took it apart I noticed some odd wear by the front frame rails.
It appears that the recoil spring assembly is battering the frame under recoil. You can clearly see where the assembly is impacting the ledge in the photo and drag marks along the walls. Plastic is now missing from the damage as well. None of this was present when I inspected the gun after purchasing. All parts are 100% STOCK and the only ammo used has been Federal 9mm from Wal-Mart and a small amount of Winchester RA9B. Total round count is ~300 rounds.
Glock has been contacted but of course it is the weekend and I won't receive a response until Monday at the earliest. Will report back after I talk to them.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/gth801e/Wep/Impactarea.jpg
I also have this same wear / missing material on my Gen 4 G19. I have 950 rounds through it with no malfs. Please let us know what Glock has to say about the matter. I would really appreciate it!
Alpha Sierra
09-12-10, 14:00
I'll be interested to see a range report with the Glockmeister part...In the interest of full disclosure, I'm NOT and engineer or metalurgist, but don't know that measuring a spring without live fire demonstrates the problem is "finally fixed".
Obviously it will take time (and rounds) to discern if the plastic wear remains as is or gets worse with the glockmeister rod.
I can tell you that the pistol with the GM guide rod and spring functioned perfectly for the 85 rounds it took to get through today's IDPA match.
Now, since I've just more than doubled the amount of clearance between the recoil spring's outside diameter and the frame by changing to a GM single spring, my bet is that the wear on my pistol's frame stopped as of last week.
fhpchris,
I agree. The wisecrack quote wasn't mine...it was Alpha Sierra's in response to my request for part # for non-MIM. I'm not an MIM fan, but never claimed to be a metalurgist or engineer. He is an MIM fan and I believe engineer, and apparently wants everyone to know it. Quote it his.
I fixed it. I am sorry!
his remark was very dumb and most likely in accurate as I am sure the GT3 at least uses Titanium rods that are forged and not MIM crap.
Now the boxter might have MIM rods:haha:
If he is an engineer he must be someone who just types stuff in CAD.
I only know 1 1911 guy who has a 1911 that is 100% reliable and he is a 1911 gunsmith. I think it is easy to say that 50% of the 1911s ive seen in IDPA have had at least one malfunction while I have been present and that is not alot of times....
I went to a GSSF match and one guy had some issues. They sent him to the armorer that was on site and he had a broken slide lock spring. After they replaced it he was 100%. I saw no other malfunctions from any of the other people there. Probably saw 300+ glocks shoot that day and only that one guy had issues, but he was fine after the armorer fixed it.
I always make fun of the revolver guys that have issues having met so many of them that say that revolvers cannot have issues. I saw someone at the store that had a firing pin stuck forward and I just could not resist making a wisecrack about it. That what you get when your fellow revolver friends talk shit to people that have 100% automatics like many Glocks/H&K/Sigs are these days. They might laugh at you or make a few comments when you have issues :)
I can tell you that the pistol with the GM guide rod and spring functioned perfectly for the 85 rounds it took to get through today's IDPA match.
I wouldn't brag that you can shoot 85 rounds without issues. Clearly there is something wrong there and my personal opinion is show up to a GSSF match and see the armorer -- not use band-aid aftermarket parts.
[QUOTE=brushy bill;751704]
Porsche and BMW connecting rods are MIM, too. I bet they are crap. Don't you think?
I love internet metallurgists and engineers
They would not be MIM.
Sintering is not the same thing as MIM, technically speaking.
Alpha Sierra
09-12-10, 19:55
I wouldn't brag that you can shoot 85 rounds without issues. Clearly there is something wrong there and my personal opinion is show up to a GSSF match and see the armorer -- not use band-aid aftermarket parts.
I know my own pistol better than anyone.
The end coil of the stock Glock dual recoil spring gets stuck in the guide rod hole at the front of the slide. The original one did and the 02 does. Even Glock knows this as they are now machining a counterbore on the inside of the guide rod hole and a chamfer on the outside to try to prevent the large spring from doing this.
On top of that, the OD of the large spring leave so little clearance between it and the inside of the frame that it chews away the plastic exposing the steel of the fwd slide rails and leaves drag marks all over the place.
The Glockmeister part is not a band aid. It is a superior design that eliminates all the problems with the stock part. It will stay in my gun.
I am not wasting time with Glock over this.
Alpha Sierra
09-12-10, 20:01
[QUOTE=Alpha Sierra;751716]
They would not be MIM.
Sintering is not the same thing as MIM, technically speaking.
Sintering is a process where a powdered solid substance is heated under pressure in a mold to a temperature below the materials melting point and held there until complete fusion occurs.
There are many materials subjected to sintering. Ceramics and metals are the two most common.
Powdered metals are injected into a mold, in which they are sintered. The transfered to a forging press for final shaping. This process is also known as powdered metal forging.
Sintering is part of the several processes used to make a metal injection molded part.
Sintered connecting rods in automobile engines are made of metal injection molding.
Total round count is ~300 rounds.
Glock has been contacted but of course it is the weekend and I won't receive a response until Monday at the earliest. Will report back after I talk to them.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/gth801e/Wep/Impactarea.jpg
300 rounds and you have this much wear? Something has to be way outa spec. My Gen 4 17 has close to 1000 rounds and I have no wear at all in the same area. Non- "02" spring and no counterbore on my pistol.
Me thinks that the "missing material" is actually an underfill and under temperature condition in the mold due to the very thin layer of polymer over the frame rails. When injection molding the maintenance of temperature is difficult and extremely thin sections are problematic. A lower temperature polymer may not adher to either itself or the metal frame rails as well as would be desired. In the Gen 3 and older design, that area was much thicker, such that even if there was a void by the frame rail, you would never see it.
In the Gen 4's the frame rails are less well "built in" in the molding process. I would assume (there's that word) that Glock took some extreme examples of this, and technically speaking... shot the piss out of them.
littlejerry
09-13-10, 17:52
Me thinks that the "missing material" is actually an underfill and under temperature condition in the mold due to the very thin layer of polymer over the frame rails. When injection molding the maintenance of temperature is difficult and extremely thin sections are problematic. A lower temperature polymer may not adher to either itself or the metal frame rails as well as would be desired. In the Gen 3 and older design, that area was much thicker, such that even if there was a void by the frame rail, you would never see it.
In the Gen 4's the frame rails are less well "built in" in the molding process. I would assume (there's that word) that Glock took some extreme examples of this, and technically speaking... shot the piss out of them.
I can say with absolute certainty that the plastic has been removed during firing. It may be difficult to see in the picture but there is a crease/ridge up and to the right of the void. This where the plastic has deformed and detached itself from the steel. The void is also present in the exact location on both sides.
I speak from experience with plastics. I'm a mechanical engineer with most of my experience in designing both consumer and medical products. The majority of what I have worked with is injection-molded plastics. I assure you the missing material is from wear.
platoonDaddy
09-13-10, 18:04
littlejerry
Did Glock contact you today and if so any words of wisdom?
I can say with absolute certainty that the plastic has been removed during firing. It may be difficult to see in the picture but there is a crease/ridge up and to the right of the void. This where the plastic has deformed and detached itself from the steel. The void is also present in the exact location on both sides.
I speak from experience with plastics. I'm a mechanical engineer with most of my experience in designing both consumer and medical products. The majority of what I have worked with is injection-molded plastics. I assure you the missing material is from wear.
Fine. A large number of gen 4 pictures look just like the one you posted. So whether it was missing originally or fractured off from some impact from the recoil assembly does not really change the fact that the polymer is very, very thin right there. It may even be from the frame rails flexing... scary thought....
I suspect this kind of thing will be a fact of life in the gen 4's due to the compromises they had to make to accomodate that complicated recoil spring assembly.
littlejerry
Did Glock contact you today and if so any words of wisdom?I'm not littejerry, but I contacted Glock today, and they asked me to e-mail them photos of the wear. That was 1100ish this AM, haven't heard a peep back...
Regards,
Kevin
It's a void from the manufacturing process, as stated. The same could be found/(can be found?) on HK USP pistols, too. Nothing to concern yourself over.
Oh, I don't like it, either. But it is what it is: an economical, reliable pistol built to a price point. Otherwise we'd all be shooting custom 1911s... and we'd all be broke. :meeting:
Alpha Sierra
09-14-10, 05:18
I suspect this kind of thing will be a fact of life in the gen 4's due to the compromises they had to make to accomodate that complicated recoil spring assembly.
Precisely why I ditched the stock guide rod/spring for a simpler, aftermarket *gasp* one.
littlejerry
09-14-10, 10:00
I spoke with Glock today over the phone. The representative assured me that the flaking was not uncommon and would not affect the function or accuracy. I insisted that I send in photos for further review.
To anyone suggesting that this is a molding defect- I assure you beyond all reasonable doubt that this is indeed NOT a molding defect. I inspected the firearm fully before using it and the material was not missing. Furthermore the nature of the damage surrounding the exposed area indicates that the material is plastically deforming under stress of firing.
See here:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/gth801e/Wep/Damage2.jpg
I sent an e-mail to Glock after speaking with the on the phone. These photos along with others were attached. When I receive a reply I will post it here.
The e-mail:
Hello,
I spoke with a representative today about the excessive wear that I've seen on my new Glock 19. Attached are a series of photos detailing the wear.
The total round count for the pistol is only 300 rounds. So far it appears that the guide-rod assembly is hitting the "step" in the plastic frame forward of the frame rails during recoil. You can also see in the photos that some of the plastic has begun to "flake" away. This flaking appears to still be occurring and more material will be removed during firing.
The representative I spoke with over the phone indicated that this is not uncommon and will not affect the function or accuracy of the pistol.
My main concerns are as follows:
1- How will this effect the longevity of the firearm? After a modest 300 rounds there appears to be significant wear. The radial clearance between the guide rod(at the OD of the large spring) and the frame is exceedingly small and guarantees that there will be some interference during firing at the "Step" in the frame.
2- During the flaking process loose material is being deposited inside of the slide and frame. This seems to pose a risk of loose material preventing proper lock-up while firing by wedging itself between the slide and barrel. With the intended use of this firearm being self-defense this is a serious concern.
Please review the attached photos and respond with your recommended remedial action.
Feel free to contact my via e-mail or my cell phone at___________.
Thank you for your time,
My main concerns are as follows:
1- How will this effect the longevity of the firearm? After a modest 300 rounds there appears to be significant wear. ,[/I]
If it makes you feel any better (and it may not), my highest round count Gen 4 at over 4K rds looks exactly the same, ie it may not have much affect if any on the longevity of the frame. Or maybe it will.
My Gen 3's exhibit similiar rubbing marks - except for the exposed metal spots which I think it probably explained by the thinner polymer covering that section.
I've read of a few happy users with 10K round counts thus far and all good functioning wise. Some of the early users on lowly GT noticed and posted on this rubbing phenom back in the Spring and got the answer that after this initial wearing in, the wear stabilizes going forward "from here to eternity" presumably.
We shall see. I'm diggin' the shooting and will continue to pound out the volume through these. I'm diggin' the PRs on drill after drill. But I'm not selling my Gen 3 17, 19 and 26 either. ;)
littlejerry
09-14-10, 12:58
Glock official reply:
Sir,
After viewing the pictures I would say that what you are experiencing is the normal wear I described in our phone conversation earlier. The gun should be fine with no adverse effect to the reliability or accuracy. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me.
Thank You,
---------------------------------------------------------
In our conversation on the phone he said it was normal for "excess polymer to be removed" during firing. So Glock's stance is that this wear is totally normal and I have nothing to worry about.
I will continue to shoot it and monitor the frame for further degradation. If I can make it 1000 rounds without a malfunction I'll start carrying it.
Glock official reply:
[I]
In our conversation on the phone he said it was normal for "excess polymer to be removed" during firing. So Glock's stance is that this wear is totally normal and I have nothing to worry about.
.
I would coach my CS staff to come up with a different choice of words. :D
Here are the photos I sent Glock yesterday. After resending them today, I got a voice mail reply.
Front of slide:
http://i55.tinypic.com/107ow77.jpg
Glock told me that this was "cosmetic only" - though I've NEVER seen a Glock shed finish like this before, in 20 years or so of shooting them... Also, is it just me, or does the counterbore for the recoil spring look asymetrical? It's certainly not done with any finesse - though this is, as pointed out above, a $400 combat pistol...
Right Side frame:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecgewo.jpg
Left Side frame:
http://i53.tinypic.com/6hqruu.jpg
I (helpfully, I think) circled the area where polymer has shed from the frame in red, and the damage to the frame from impact (of the slide?) in green.
Glock also told me that the loss of polymer is from a void in the molding process, and would have no effect on reliability. The signs of impact damage from the slide are also "perfectly normal" according to their tech, though they did ask what kind of ammunition I was firing through the pistol, and they said they'd be sending me a replacement recoil spring (why, if this is normal wear and tear?)
Anyway, I believe I'll be going back to my old 3rd Generation G19 for a while, and let Glock work out the bugs on this design. My experience is that there's not enough "recoil reduction" with the new spring to be worth the kind of damage I'm seeing, there's no appreciable accuracy improvement from my 3rd Gen, and the trigger is certainly not as workable. I do still like the grip, both shape/size without any additional strap installed, and the texture, but, I've done just fine with the old design for a decade or more, so I'll be taking the pass on this one for a while...
Regards,
Kevin
Magic_Salad0892
09-14-10, 21:04
Have a little bit of frame ''chewing''.
I switched to the Glockmeister 22 lbs. recoil spring.
Isn't that the spring weight on the Gen4 ''01'' recoil assemblies?
[QUOTE=Mjolnir;756840]
Sintering is a process where a powdered solid substance is heated under pressure in a mold to a temperature below the materials melting point and held there until complete fusion occurs.
There are many materials subjected to sintering. Ceramics and metals are the two most common.
Powdered metals are injected into a mold, in which they are sintered. The transfered to a forging press for final shaping. This process is also known as powdered metal forging.
Sintering is part of the several processes used to make a metal injection molded part.
Sintered connecting rods in automobile engines are made of metal injection molding.
Hmmm, I just researched this today as well and stand corrected.
One thing I DO NOT LIKE about MIM parts (actually 2 things) the part is not as dense - porosity cannot be made less than ~ 5% and one loses the grain structure of a drop forged ingot which is then machined. The loss of density and different grain structure will make the MIM part less durable than one done the "conventional" method - assuming identical alloys and geometry (as well as loading, obviously). But by knowing the two shortcomings one can design a part specifically for the MIM process. How? By upgrading the alloy ($$$) or having slightly larger cross sectional areas. If PROPERLY done they work well - witness the Porsche 997 GT3 RS, Ferrari Scuderias, Honda NSX and several super sport motorcycle connecting rods.
Cool stuff, no?
Kjdoski,
Isn't the counterbore for the spring assembly supposed to be on the inside of the slide? That looks like wear from the spring assembly passing back into the slide. What does the spring assembly look like?
Kjdoski,
Isn't the counterbore for the spring assembly supposed to be on the inside of the slide? That looks like wear from the spring assembly passing back into the slide. What does the spring assembly look like?
My thoughts exactly, I do not see the point to it.
Those pics do make the GM recoil spring look like a good option though.
Has this frame damage been observed with GEN4 G17's?
Kevin,
I have the same discoloration on the front of my GEN4 19 also, so does my buddy. We got consecutive serial numbers, PPY1xx. It does look like the counterbore was applied to both sides of the hole. Also have the same marks inside the frame with around 1k rounds downrange so far. Not one single malfunction yet.
Has this frame damage been observed with GEN4 G17's?
Frame WEAR yes, in my G4 G17. ;) With 4K rds of perfection through it. (Sorry, I never put any stock in the "Perfection"; it was always just a marketing hook. But I love pokin' the bear. Hence my sig line from the wit Ram Engineer.)
Alpha Sierra
09-15-10, 17:25
Cool stuff, no?
Indeed.
Alpha Sierra
09-15-10, 17:28
My thoughts exactly, I do not see the point to it.
Those pics do make the GM recoil spring look like a good option though.
The GM recoil spring significantly increases clearance between the spring coils and the frame. I have posted elsewhere the measured differences.
The GM recoil spring significantly increases clearance between the spring coils and the frame. I have posted elsewhere the measured differences.
If this is the kind of wear I can expect to see in the future, I may just preemptively buy the GM spring before it starts.
I'm starting to wonder if the new Glock recoil spring rod had been made of steel instead of polymer, would we be seeing the same results. I was thinking maybe the polymer rod is flexing to much, coupled with the fact that there is less clearance for the recoil spring to move around in. Just a thought. :confused:
up to 1040 total rounds with 1 FTE (Gen 4 17) No frame wear as seen in the recent posts.
I took a look at my G19 gen 4, which has 700 rounds (with zero malfunctions) and yep, some mild frame wear & some bare metal spots exactly as pictured.
I then took a look at my gen 3 G19, with 6,300 rounds through it (and about 5 failures to feed in the first 1000 rounds) and had exactly the same frame wear and some bare metal spots, it looked very similar.
I am not too worried.
FChen17213
09-15-10, 21:44
I have the Gen 4 G17 and G19. I have put over 2000 rounds through both guns now. Both of the guns have the wear on the frame. As with other Gen 4s, the trigger is heavier, and the recoil springs are significantly heavier. I don't feel a big difference in recoil. The Gen 4 is perhaps just a tad softer. I do like the new texture and large mag release though.
My Gen 4 17 was one of the first ones released so it never had the marked recoil spring. It had the original spring that many reported many FTFs and FTEs with lighter ammo. Interestingly enough, I never had any problems with it at first....even using light ammo. It wasn't until a few hundred rounds that a few strange FTFs and failure for the slide to lock opens begain to occur. I just wrote this off as a lazy or limp wristed grip. However, after 500 more rounds, this problem would still occur sporadically. Then I attributed it to the mag springs getting slightly weaker and not being strong enough to catch up to the heavy spring in the slide. Well, I usually don't have problems with the G17 now for the most part. The G19 is pretty GTG although I had a few failure to lock open on the last round a few times on a range trip two weeks ago. I have shot 300 more rounds through it since then and haven't had any problems.
That being said, I have lost confidence in the Gen 4 9mms as combat weapons overall. They're going to become range guns from now on. Sure, maybe I limp wrist or have a lazy grip. I shoot over 12,000 rounds a year and have done so for years now. Sure, maybe I still don't have a correct grip, but if there's going to be a combat handgun that is that sensitive to a perfect grip, I'm not going to trust it. What if I have to give the gun to a woman? Someone with arthritis? A wounded person? An inexperienced shooter? An old person? I'd feel 100% comfortable the gun will function if I gave any of the mentioned individuals a Sig P226, HK USP, 1911, or Smith M&P. Why not the Gen 4 Glock? As much as people want to blame user error for the Gen 4 mishaps, a truly great combat handgun should function fine despite user error.
Just my .02. YMMV
Alpha Sierra
09-16-10, 04:24
I have the Gen 4 G17 and G19. I have put over 2000 rounds through both guns now. Both of the guns have the wear on the frame. As with other Gen 4s, the trigger is heavier, and the recoil springs are significantly heavier. I don't feel a big difference in recoil. The Gen 4 is perhaps just a tad softer. I do like the new texture and large mag release though.
My Gen 4 17 was one of the first ones released so it never had the marked recoil spring. It had the original spring that many reported many FTFs and FTEs with lighter ammo. Interestingly enough, I never had any problems with it at first....even using light ammo. It wasn't until a few hundred rounds that a few strange FTFs and failure for the slide to lock opens begain to occur. I just wrote this off as a lazy or limp wristed grip. However, after 500 more rounds, this problem would still occur sporadically. Then I attributed it to the mag springs getting slightly weaker and not being strong enough to catch up to the heavy spring in the slide. Well, I usually don't have problems with the G17 now for the most part. The G19 is pretty GTG although I had a few failure to lock open on the last round a few times on a range trip two weeks ago. I have shot 300 more rounds through it since then and haven't had any problems.
That being said, I have lost confidence in the Gen 4 9mms as combat weapons overall. They're going to become range guns from now on. Sure, maybe I limp wrist or have a lazy grip. I shoot over 12,000 rounds a year and have done so for years now. Sure, maybe I still don't have a correct grip, but if there's going to be a combat handgun that is that sensitive to a perfect grip, I'm not going to trust it. What if I have to give the gun to a woman? Someone with arthritis? A wounded person? An inexperienced shooter? An old person? I'd feel 100% comfortable the gun will function if I gave any of the mentioned individuals a Sig P226, HK USP, 1911, or Smith M&P. Why not the Gen 4 Glock? As much as people want to blame user error for the Gen 4 mishaps, a truly great combat handgun should function fine despite user error.
Just my .02. YMMV
Call Glock for the 02 spring. It will rid your pistol of the FTEs.
Alpha Sierra
09-16-10, 04:25
I was thinking maybe the polymer rod is flexing to much, coupled with the fact that there is less clearance for the recoil spring to move around in. Just a thought. :confused:
Could be. Add to that the side to side play on the slide after it unlocks and it is easy to see all the clearance between the spring and frame disappear.
platoonDaddy
09-16-10, 07:58
Call Glock for the 02 spring. It will rid your pistol of the FTEs.
I am on my 2nd "02" spring for my G17 Gen 4, for sure the 1st one didn't stop it. First 800 rounds no issues and then all crap hit the fan, Glock mailed me another "02", will see what happens.
Gen 4 update:
1st Gen 4 G17 - 4481 rounds, stoppages 0 (orig 01 spring)
2nd Gen 4 G17 - 2300 rounds, stoppages 0 (orig 01 spring)
Gen 4 G19 - 1600 rounds, stoppages 0 (stock 03 spring)
Ammo has been the whole gamut of least expensive available UMC, WWB, Blazer, Fiocchi, Magtech, etc.
Internal frame wear is fairly consistent with some of the pics posted and had remained constant through these thousands of rounds.
My Koolaid tastes pretty good. I dearly wish all users can get their guns running to their satisfaction.
New Gen 4. Material loss as depicted above without a single shoot. The pistol has been cycled manually.
Regards and happy 2011!
RAM Engineer
01-01-11, 19:58
Has anyone accidentally dropped either a complete Gen4 Glock or a Gen4 slide nose down yet? I'm curious as to how durable the nose ring is on the Gen4 guns. Glock didn't leave a lot of steel when they redesigned the slide to accommodate the larger RSA. Then they took MORE away when they implemented the counter-bore.
On Hilton Yam's blog, he showed a Gen4 slide with the nose-ring broken or cut off. I asked him about it and he wasn't sure how it happened as it was given to him as a scrap slide already in that condition.
Pictures are here:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/12/glock-sight-in-tool.html
As much as I prefer Glocks to M&Ps, I can't imagine a drop would do much damage to the nose-ring area of a M&P slide.
Thanks,
Jason
Has anyone accidentally dropped either a complete Gen4 Glock or a Gen4 slide nose down yet? I'm curious as to how durable the nose ring is on the Gen4 guns. Glock didn't leave a lot of steel when they redesigned the slide to accommodate the larger RSA. Then they took MORE away when they implemented the counter-bore.
On Hilton Yam's blog, he showed a Gen4 slide with the nose-ring broken or cut off. I asked him about it and he wasn't sure how it happened as it was given to him as a scrap slide already in that condition.
Pictures are here:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/12/glock-sight-in-tool.html
As much as I prefer Glocks to M&Ps, I can't imagine a drop would do much damage to the nose-ring area of a M&P slide.
Thanks,
Jason
Isn't that a G26? It looks like it failed during a shoot cycle.
Check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw
Apparently the culprit of the FTEs and weird ejection patterns could be the bump in the trigger bar, adding friction to the slide in the recoil cycle.
"0 4" RSA are having FTE problems too.
RAM Engineer
01-02-11, 11:20
Isn't that a G26? It looks like it failed during a shoot cycle.
Could be. The G26 has a similar nose-ring and RSA design to the Gen4s. I guess if there haven't been widespread reports of G26/27s with damage, then the Gen4s are probably fine.
Ram, I haven't dropped any of our Gen 4's on concrete yet . . . but your question is tempting my "koolaid courage". :D
platoonDaddy
01-03-11, 13:40
Check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw
Apparently the culprit of the FTEs and weird ejection patterns could be the bump in the trigger bar, adding friction to the slide in the recoil cycle.
"0 4" RSA are having FTE problems too.
Dang very interesting VIDEO. Will be interested in what the PRO have too say.
Thanks for posting
Well, I am back from my first visit to the range with my G17 and a box of 50 rounds of UMC Leadless 124gr. I shoot one handed.
- Irregular ejection pattern. 10% of casings hitting my head.
- 1 FTF.
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders. I am sure they knew the issues but they released the product anyway, probably against the engineering department, just to fulfill their holy planning and get their undeserved bonuses.
By the way I am OK as I bought the pistol for sports events.
platoonDaddy
01-09-11, 09:47
Well, I am back from my first visit to the range with my G17 and a box of 50 rounds of UMC Leadless 124gr. I shoot one handed.
- Irregular ejection pattern. 10% of casings hitting my head.
- 1 FTF.
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders. I am sure they knew the issues but they released the product anyway, probably against the engineering department, just to fulfill their holy planning and get their undeserved bonuses.
By the way I am OK as I bought the pistol for sports events.
Questions:
1st three letters of your serial number?
what spring number?
counterbore?
Questions:
1st three letters of your serial number?
what spring number?
counterbore?
Sorry I've forgot to post that info: PWH, 02 spring, counterbore.
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders..
You're serious aren't you? :D
Have you read; their sales were up this last year. ATF chose Gen 4 for orders. I've seen LEO after LEO report their guns run well and have read a few reports where they didn't (incl the now famous mystery LE orgs on the West Coast that had big issues that got resolved).
New redesigned models often have growing pains. This isn't exactly new ground.
I have 400 range rounds thru my gen 4 17 without any issues. Rounds were a mix of 115gr federal and winchester wwb rounds.
I also put 100 rounds of HST rounds thru it as well...also without issue.
Strange ejection patterns are nothing new. I have a Gen 3 19 that likes to hit me in the frigging forehead with brass.
Strange ejection patterns are nothing new. I have a Gen 3 19 that likes to hit me in the frigging forehead with brass.
My M&P 40c also has irregular ejection patterns. Many possibilities, including the human element as well as ammo variances (even from the same box).
It has never been a concern of mine, as long as the gun is feeding and spitting them out.
My thoughts WRT "erratic ejection" which comes straight back into the shooters face:
For many of us, this is a "minor annoyance" when it occurs on the range, because we're wearing full protective equipment, including safety glasses and hats. That basically keeps the likelihood of contact between that hot brass and our face or eyes to a minimum. In the real world, however, most people will not be wearing safety glasses - or even non-safety sunglasses - especially if it's after dark. Some people may wear a hat of some kind all the time, even in the house, but most probably don't.
What's a "minor annoyance" on the range can become a major issue if you catch a hot piece of brass in your dominant eye. Let's be serious, who hasn't flinched and had their concentration broken when your neighbor's brass landed on your bare arm; or, worse, down the back of your neck?
I'm not saying it's going to get you killed, and it is, most likely, a VERY short-term pain/distraction, but, all things being equal, I'd prefer to carry a SD gun that doesn't plink me in the face; and I have, in fact, sold off several guns over the years that had only this as a "problem..."
Am I demanding? Heck yes! But, would you continue to drive a car that squirted fluid out of the air conditioning vents into your face "only once or twice every minute?"
Regards,
Kevin
The majority of my guns very occasionally will throw a casing over my shoulder or even on top of my head but none throw casings into my face. I agree that any gun that does this is of serious concern.
TheSmiter1
01-10-11, 00:26
My thoughts WRT "erratic ejection" which comes straight back into the shooters face:
For many of us, this is a "minor annoyance" when it occurs on the range, because we're wearing full protective equipment, including safety glasses and hats. That basically keeps the likelihood of contact between that hot brass and our face or eyes to a minimum. In the real world, however, most people will not be wearing safety glasses - or even non-safety sunglasses - especially if it's after dark. Some people may wear a hat of some kind all the time, even in the house, but most probably don't.
What's a "minor annoyance" on the range can become a major issue if you catch a hot piece of brass in your dominant eye. Let's be serious, who hasn't flinched and had their concentration broken when your neighbor's brass landed on your bare arm; or, worse, down the back of your neck?
I'm not saying it's going to get you killed, and it is, most likely, a VERY short-term pain/distraction, but, all things being equal, I'd prefer to carry a SD gun that doesn't plink me in the face; and I have, in fact, sold off several guns over the years that had only this as a "problem..."
Am I demanding? Heck yes! But, would you continue to drive a car that squirted fluid out of the air conditioning vents into your face "only once or twice every minute?"
Regards,
Kevin
This is how I feel regarding brass projection into the face of the shooter. It's not acceptable in a defense situation. The last thing I want in that situation is hot brass in my eye.
Does this ever have anything to do with the ejector or extractor, or possibly the ejector plunger, plunger spring, and the spring loaded bearing? I'd hate to have to sell a pistol for this reason.
I've never seen this even reported with defensive ammo. If it does, change guns or whatever.
With the weak training ammo I've seen it occur myself with Gen 2, Gen 3, and the Gen 4's and with my M&P - as have others.
I've never seen this even reported with defensive ammo. If it does, change guns or whatever.
With the weak training ammo I've seen it occur myself with Gen 2, Gen 3, and the Gen 4's and with my M&P - as have others.This is happening to me with my current 3rd Gen G19 using M882 NATO ball - about as hot as you're likely to get, and certainly hot enough to be classified as not "weak training ammo."
Allow me to reiterate - I am a HUGE fan of Glocks. I have the latitude to outfit my team with Sigs, 1911s, Berettas, or Glocks, and we carry 3rd Gen G19s. I'm issued a Sig in .40 from my agency, but I carry a personally owned G19 when I'm not OCONUS (then I carry a unit-issued G19). I've been an avid shooter of Glocks since 1992, and they are still the number one pistol I recommend to any of the dozens of people a week who come to me and ask "what pistol should I buy."
I'm just getting tired of the "use different ammo" mantra. Glock built its reputation on rock-solid reliability, especially in 9mm. I've never had a 9mm Glock that was built pre-2010 bobble on any kind of ammunition I've stuffed in it - and I've run some TRULY questionable stuff through my pistols over the years.
But now Glock has "improved" the design of what was arguably the most reliable 9mm in the world. I'm sadly reminded of when the 3rd Gen .40s wouldn't feed for love or money with lights attached - which led several large LE agencies to dump them for other brands or Glocks in other calibers. Well, now the .40s run fine, but the 9mms are hit & miss.
Again, I don't think the sky is falling, and I'm not getting out of Glocks (I am, in fact, heading to get a G26 this AM, to fill in for my G19 that's back at the factory).
Regards,
Kevin
This is happening to me with my current 3rd Gen G19 using M882 NATO ball - about as hot as you're likely to get, and certainly hot enough to be classified as not "weak training ammo."
I'm just getting tired of the "use different ammo" mantra.
I'm tracking Kevin. My comments were intendedto be regarding the Gen 4's under discussion. Your current Gen 3 experience might reinforce the point that whatever it is or isn't, it isn't a specific Gen 4 thing. But is it a 9mm thing? I don't recall your Gen 4 G23 doing this. (I take your reviews/reports very seriously.)
And yes, if it's happening with powerful ammo, I agree, its serious and requires a change.
You swapped out some other extractor part in your newest Gen 3 also due to this problem yes? That did not resolve it?
Kevin - which G26??? Gen 3 or 4? The Gen 4 G26s IMO feel incredibly locked in. I bought a new Gen 3 G26 this past Summer and it has been outstanding. I won't ever part with it, even for the Gen 4 improvements of grip and mag release.
platoonDaddy
01-10-11, 16:59
Could be. The G26 has a similar nose-ring and RSA design to the Gen4s. I guess if there haven't been widespread reports of G26/27s with damage, then the Gen4s are probably fine.
If you are talking about the trigger bar: I have a Gen 3 G26OD that doesn't resemble the trigger bar design of my Gen 4 G17, reference below:
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/003.jpg
Well, I guess I'm an optomist, or a glutton for punishment - I picked up a Gen4 G26 today, just because it finally makes a "baby" Glock feel "right" in my hand. Tore it down in the parking lot - inspection showed nothing untoward; added a couple of drops of lube per Glock's recommendations and went to the range.
220 rounds of M882 ball without a hitch; followed by 50 rounds of Federal 147gr HST, also flawless. So far so good!
The only negative comment I'll make is that the "bump" on the trigger bar is definitely changing things in these guns. After about 100 rounds on the range (when some soot started to build up inside the pistol), I could feel that little bump grinding along the slide as I tried to press the trigger without disturbing the sights. Disconcerting, but didn't cause any reliability issues. I also had the devil's own time getting the pistol back together tonight after I detail stripped, performed the 25-cent trigger job, and lubed up with Frog Lube - the slide was absolutely catching on something about 1/4" short of the rear of the slide being lined up with back of the frame. Took quite a bit of jiggling, and finally a fairly sharp rap on the slide to get it over "the hump."
More to follow, but hopefully this Glock will keep on chugging along. While I was at the funstore, I was fondling a Gen4 G35, and, boy, if I thought SWMBO wouldn't punch me in the throat, it would have been a 2-Glock day for me...
Regards,
Kevin
I got a new Glock 19 Gen 4 today with Glock factory nights sites. have NOT fired it yet, but things I have noticed:
Pros:
1) Like the mag release alot
2) Like the grip texture ( even though I favor the RTF2 more)
3) Like the fact it has the "04" spring
4) Like the factory night sights (even though I wish they were trijicon)
5) Liked how it came with 3 mags
Cons:
1) Think the backstraps are useless b/c i like the feel without
2) The finish on the slide looks different than on my other Glocks
3) It almost "hesitates" when you reassemble it and it has to slide by the little bumb "metal thing". You have to maneuver it around for a split second
I will post a range report after tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed!
I got a new Glock 19 Gen 4 today with Glock factory nights sites. have NOT fired it yet, but things I have noticed:
Pros:
1) Like the mag release alot
2) Like the grip texture ( even though I favor the RTF2 more)
3) Like the fact it has the "04" spring
4) Like the factory night sights (even though I wish they were trijicon)
5) Liked how it came with 3 mags
Cons:
1) Think the backstraps are useless b/c i like the feel without
2) The finish on the slide looks different than on my other Glocks
3) It almost "hesitates" when you reassemble it and it has to slide by the little bumb "metal thing". You have to maneuver it around for a split second
I will post a range report after tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed!
Congrats. I love my Gen4 G9 (I have a 03 spring and experienced no issues), but i would like to comment on one of your "Cons"
1.) Then don't use them. Don't understand how having options is considered a "con"
3) It almost "hesitates" when you reassemble it and it has to slide by the little bumb "metal thing". You have to maneuver it around for a split second
What?
Yea, just think that if they left off the backstraps the cost of the pistol could come down a little. When I said the slide "hesitates" I meant that when you put the slide back on the frame and pull it back to reassemble the gun, the slide does not come straight back with no hinderance; instead the slide has to be maneuvered in such a fashion to negotiate the little bump before it continues to lock back.
Gen4 19. #3 spring. 500 rounds WWB, 100 rounds Speer gold dot 124gr +p. Zero problems. The Gen 4 grip is great for my short fingers.
Yea, just think that if they left off the backstraps the cost of the pistol could come down a little. When I said the slide "hesitates" I meant that when you put the slide back on the frame and pull it back to reassemble the gun, the slide does not come straight back with no hinderance; instead the slide has to be maneuvered in such a fashion to negotiate the little bump before it continues to lock back.
Mine did that at first. I think its the circular plunger on the bottom of the slide that gets hung up. Anyways mine stopped doing that after I got some rounds down range on my G19. I wish I could tell you how many I shot to make it go away but I completely forgot it used to do that and never noted when it stopped.
What?
exactly. english mother! do you speak it?
D.S. Brown
03-18-11, 16:15
Picked up a Gen4 G19 yesterday. I shot 300 rounds of Speer Lawman 124 grain fmj's out of it. No problems, It shot great!
Best,
Dave
I shot 5 mags out of mine today and had no problems. I really like it even more the more I shoot it.
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