View Full Version : Best weapon light placement?
Hey guys. What do you consider to be the best placment for a weapon light? I've been playing with the placement of the weapon light on my carbine the last few days. I wanted to pick your brains about the best location on the handguards to mount the light to be most effective. It's lived at the 3 o'clock position on my forend for some time. But in doing some movement around barricades it seemed like it could be blocked if I had to work around a right hand barricade. I have moved it to the 6 o'clock position to see how I like that, but I'm not sure... It seems like 3 o'clock is a pretty popular position though. I'd like to hear from some more experienced users who have done a good bit of low-light training on where and why you mount your light. Your input is appreciated.
-RD62
P.S. mine is a pressure switch activated light, not a push tail-cap, so I dont need to be able to hit it with my thumb.
It seems that it's such a personal thing that I don't think there's any one "best" position other than what works for you. Every time I think I've found the best position for everything, I tweak something on my setup and consequently everything else changes.
My light started out at 3, got dropped in between 3 and 6 with a Viking Tactics mount, switched to between 6 and 9 (again with a VT mount) and now sits between the 9 and 12 on a Larue offset mount. On my other gun, the light sits right at the 9. The position changes were dictated by things like moving my sling mounts around or shooting with a thumb wrapped around a VFG or going high thumb with a VFG or dropping the VFG completely.
The body of the light and type of mount make a difference, as they may (will) dictate how much room for adjustment you may have. Some people are forced into having the light at a certain position because it's the only way they can turn it on given it's length or width and poisition on the rail.
Like I said, there really isn't a best. It's about what works for you, and setting up your gear to match how you shoot. I kinda think that lights and mounts are like carry holsters for handguns...you have to try a lot it seems, to find one that fits.
I have to say though...one of the neatest tweaks I've seen with a pressure pad is to mount the light forward of the FSB on an MRE type rail. It's out of the way, in line with everything, and leaves a lot of real estate open. If I didn't hate pressure pads, it's something I would try.
Recently I switched from 3 to 9 o'clock (w/ tailcap switch), and I love it; don't know how I did it before.
Perfect setup for me. YMM(and probably will)V.
Thanks Subzero. I know what you mean about personal preference. So much is that way. Like you said even the VFG and presure pad are up to personal preference. I too have seen the light out front of the FSB, and also like how it's in-line with the bore and minimizes shadow, but my rail system won't allow this. :( Maybe thats a good excuse to start playing with rails too! :D Anyway, I guess what I meant was if people could weigh in with where they have theirs mounted and if there is any reason why. It might help some of us who are tinkering with their setup, by giving us some ideas about what limitations we might run into with certain setups. Kind of a collective experience pool to tap into for those of us who may not have all the opportunities and resources to test our gear that some others have.
Also thought I'd add that I'm running a Surefire G2 converted to 9V with P91 lamp, shock isolated bezel and tape switch all from BrightFlashlights. It's in a crappy FAS2 Fisrt Samco mount. The mounts been OK, and I've had it for a few years, but am looking to upgrade to something of better quality, with better retention, and stronger construction, but haven't decided on a mount yet. In closer quarters I convert back to 6V with P60 so as to not have so much reflection and washout from light colored interior walls, etc.
-RD62
Jay Cunningham
05-21-07, 22:56
I have found that for me the 9:00 position with a tail cap switch is my favorite. I am right handed, BTW.
CavReconScout
05-22-07, 00:34
I am right handed, and run a vertical grip with a high thumb. I run my M3X at 3:00 on the rail. It keeps it out away from my PC, and seems to minimize light ADs. When I ran it at 9:00 it would occasionally bump on by itself.
Paul Howe commented that the light and switch should be placed as to not interfere with your regular shooting grip, and shouldn't require a change of grip to activate it.
What I did, was take a grip on my weapon, VFG as far forward as possible, and high thumb on the left of the gun. Then i put the light where it would fit, this is why I like tape swiches.
LE6920 w/ KAC rail, has a Surefire 9volt classic w/ an Xm 07 switch mounted in a Viking Tactics mount. The mount is on teh 12 oclock rail, so the light sits at the 2 O'clock position. This will also allow me to shoot w/o the VFG.
Colt Sporter w/ M4 handguards has a Surefire classic mounted in a GG&G slic mount, it puts the light in about the same position. This may get switched to an old school Surefire, that puts the lamp at 12 o'clock and dog legs the body around the front sight assembly.
I'll also mention during some recent training, a SWAT operator commented that having the light in this position, also gets the light on the target just a little faster, and allows you to keep teh muzzle depressed just a little more, when IDing a target.
My work gun, I have to work around what I get issued and what they'll let me change, has a 9 volt Surefire 961 at the 3'oclock, its the only place it'll fit, I swithced the clikie tailcap for an XM08, and put the tape under my thumb at 9'oclock. Not entirely happy with that, but it works.
I'll just reiterate, what Paul said, adjsut the light to you, not teh other way around.
HTH,
Bob
I like mine at the 9-10 oclock postion....(possible with a larue mount,)
I have it also allows me to clear/use some forms of cover better getting the light higher up.
I'll also mention during some recent training, a SWAT operator commented that having the light in this position, also gets the light on the target just a little faster, and allows you to keep teh muzzle depressed just a little more, when IDing a target.
Which position is it you are refering to here? The 2 O'clock? I have to admit I like the way it sounds with the offset mount on the top rail bringing the light to about 2 O'clock.
Keep the info coming guys, I think this is some good stuff! I appreciate everyone's comments! :)
-RD62
RD,
Yes, the 2 o'clock
Bob
Surefire M96 w/ tailcap switch, 9 o'clock.
yes if i could find a 6-9 volt set up with larue mount, clickie switch and an led with the throw of my 12z or turbo head 9 volt model i would be happy
Right handed shooter and use the light at the 9 position. Vickers is a lefty and runs his light at the 3 position.
C4
Jay Cunningham
05-22-07, 11:17
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6426/fightingcarbine001zm3.jpg
R Moran,
How do you like your Viking Tactical mount? I'v been experimenting a little more, and may like to try this setup. Any other mounts able to drop the light like this off the top rail. I'd like to try and keep the light close to the forend.
-RD62
Im right handed and 9 O Clock is my prefered position.
R Moran,
How do you like your Viking Tactical mount? I'v been experimenting a little more, and may like to try this setup. Any other mounts able to drop the light like this off the top rail. I'd like to try and keep the light close to the forend.
-RD62
RD,
I haven't had any problems, can't tell you how many rounds, but its been thru a few classes. It is plastic though.
I sold the LaRue offset mount and kept the VT, because the VT, keeps the light closer to the rail.
Bob
I don’t think there is any doubt that 6 o-clock is the absolute best place for the light. Every place else can give off a strange shadow. The problem is that’s not the most comfortable place for mine. Especially considering how I’ve been trained to grip the hand guards so far out with my support hand. The 9 o’clock position works well but the light can get hung up on gear & clothing. This is the reason mine gets mounted at 3 o’clock; it’s a compromise that works well for me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/2006_1022LMTM40003.jpg
I don’t think there is any doubt that 6 o-clock is the absolute best place for the light.
I gotta be contrary here.:D
I think the best position would be at the 12 o'clock if you could make it where it would not interfere with the front sight. :p
Guess this qualifies as a 10-o-clock position. Surefire G2 light is tailcap activated with the weak-hand thumb. The MI front-sight mount makes for a lightweight, inexpensive, and effective config. Since these pics were taken I upgraded with the G3 to nearly double the brightness
Don't care for tape switches, not the tape but because of the loose wire. Something integrated like the Surefire handguard would be nice, but way too pricey for me.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/blackscot/ar/DSC_0004.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/blackscot/ar/DSC_0007.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/blackscot/ar/DSC_0002.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/117/312533222_d4be19a2ab.jpg
Option #1
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/460671410_182faecb82.jpg
Option #2
Right handed driver, thumbs forward grip. 75" wingspan so I'd have everything farther forward if I had the room.
safeways1217
05-24-07, 05:35
I was mounting my tac-lite at the 9 0-clock position oposite my otal at the 3.
I have positioned it so the face comes just behind the bayolug on my M-4 and if I need the bayonet on my carbine I am not going to be worried about it blocking my tac-lite. also as I am holding the vertigrip I can use my right finger to turn it on and off. :cool:
I don’t think there is any doubt that 6 o-clock is the absolute best place for the light. Every place else can give off a strange shadow. The problem is that’s not the most comfortable place for mine. Especially considering how I’ve been trained to grip the hand guards so far out with my support hand. The 9 o’clock position works well but the light can get hung up on gear & clothing. This is the reason mine gets mounted at 3 o’clock; it’s a compromise that works well for me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/2006_1022LMTM40003.jpg
What finger do you use to activate that?
What finger do you use to activate that?
Support hand pointer finger as it wraps around the hand guard. You end up using the side of the finger.
Very simple and easy.
I gotta be contrary here.:D
I think the best position would be at the 12 o'clock if you could make it where it would not interfere with the front sight. :p
You laugh, but check this (http://www.m-guns.com) out.
http://www.m-guns.com/galimg/adn.sized.jpg
I gotta be contrary here.:D
I think the best position would be at the 12 o'clock if you could make it where it would not interfere with the front sight. :p
SureFire used to make a light that puts the lamp at 12 o'clock, the lamp is attached to a clamp that goes around the FSB, and the body is on the right side of the gun. This is the light I mentioned above, they used to be issued at my site.
Bob
Okay . . . who has more than one white light on their gun?
I agree with the above posters that the 12 O'clock position is the best as far not interfering with use of cover. The issue that I have is that it requires a tape switch for either the Surefire mount or the Christiansen mount. The 6 o’clock position would be the next choice.
However, I think it is important (as stated previously) to not adjust your grip to activate the light. Additionally, I prefer clickie tail caps on my weapon lights. I am right handed. This has let me to prefer the11 o’clock position. The goal is to get the light as close to the bore line as possible on the vertical axis.
On a rail, I use a Larue offset mount attached to the 12 o’clock rail. The Viking Tactics mount would also work well for a more cost effective solution.
With no rail, I go retro and use a Surefire M16 mount rotated so that the light body is pressed up next to the FSB in the 11 o’clock position. The M16 mount may not be the cool guy toy anymore, but it is a great mount and keeps the gun light weight. It is both robust and usable.
I prefer the 3 O clock position. I'm a lefty, but i shoot righty, and the 3 O clock position is more Confortable for me.
PALADIN-hgwt
05-29-07, 10:46
xxxxx
Mine (pentagon MD2) is setup out of the box to go in the 3 o'clock position so I went with that.
Right handed, 9:00.
A little OT, but has anyone know where I can buy a replacement clickie tailcap for a SF scout light? I have broken the one I have and it's being replaced, but would like to have another on hand.
Right handed, 9:00.
A little OT, but has anyone know where I can buy a replacement clickie tailcap for a SF scout light? I have broken the one I have and it's being replaced, but would like to have another on hand.
I sell the Z68 if interested.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/SF%20Z68.jpg
I gotta be contrary here.:D
I think the best position would be at the 12 o'clock if you could make it where it would not interfere with the front sight. :p
I agree with you, but to keep muzzle weight to a minimum I compromise and use the 6 o'clock. I would love to see a light that has a bulb assembly that can be mounted muzzle forward at 12 o'clock with the battery pack and activation assembly to the rear on, in, or near the fore-grip (if you use one).
Stephen
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/stephen_101st/Gear/Bushmasterreborn-2.jpg
Erick Gelhaus
05-31-07, 22:20
For me, as a lefty, I default to 3o'clock followed by 6 - on the AR/M4; the shotgun is pretty much stuck at 6.
Steven's comment on the 12 is intriguing but I wonder if that is solely because I have not worked with it?
Erick
I would love to see a light that has a bulb assembly that can be mounted muzzle forward at 12 o'clock with the battery pack and activation assembly to the rear on, in, or near the fore-grip (if you use one).
I could have sworn I had seen a pic of just such a thing once.
I could have sworn I had seen a pic of just such a thing once.
I believe I once saw someone take the front sight post mounted laser that Surefire offered and convert it with a light bezel.
It ended up being a 6v with the bulb assembly mounted directly in front of the sight base with the battery tube mounted offset to the side of the sight and above the handguards.
Is that what you're thinking of Rob?
I cant remember the model number for the laser body assembly, but here's a pic of it. Picture the bulb assembly in place of the laser module:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/ChrisV196/laserlight.jpg?t=1180697348
Yup, stonehenge69 on TOS posted a pic of that exact set up:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/ChrisV196/surefire676.jpg?t=1180697833
Yep, that's what I was thinking of. Had no idea it was a home-made setup though.
The ingenuity of some shooters never ceases to amaze me.
If you look back a few posts, thats the exact set up I was talking about.
Maybe now you'd have to custom set it up, but for awhile it was a standard SureFire offering, we used to use that set up at work, dosnes of them, they still have some laying around and mounted to the sims guns. You need atape swwich though.
Bob
Now, if that could be mounted to a 1913 rail you'd have something. Especially if it had an integrated front sight. Even if it didn't have a integrated front sight you could mount that ahead of the front sight either on a FF rail or a railed gas block.
I don't think you would need a tape switch. Just put a push button end cap on, maybe even one of the light savers Grant sells.
ETA: Thanks for the pics Lumpy.
chapperjoe
06-27-07, 12:12
I really haven't found one I liked so much more than any other enough to make 'my position'.
If I had to pick one I'd put an XM tailcap'ed light at 3 o'clock with a pressure pad at 10 o'clock. this way with a std rifle/sling hold I have the pressure pad and with a VFG I have the clicker option.
Don Robison
06-27-07, 13:47
I'm a lefty and use one of three setups. In order of preference. 1. light at 6 o'clock with tape switch on the left side of the magwell. I prefer magwell grip vs. vert grip. 2. 9 o'clock with click switch activated by thumb. 3. 6 o'clock with Gladius mounted in front of it and activate with knuckle on middle finger.
I am a 4 o'clock guy, as I am still use to using my left thumb to activate the clicky switch on the back of my Pentagon X3HA.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/463026.jpg
I know it is not the "in style" set-up, but it is what I am use to.
eta: This is an old pic showing the pressure switch, it has been changed to a "clicky" switch.
I have the same conundrum. My favorite place for my support hand is the magwell, but I realize that with a clickie cap--which I prefer to tape switch--I will need a VFG. As of now, my support hand goes on the VFG with my thumb on the left of the weapon (I'm a right-handed shooter), same as it would on the magwell. I can't decide whether I should change my support hand grip to where my thumb goes around the VFG and have the light at 3 o'clock or keep the same grip and mount the light at 9 o'clock, of which I am not very fond as it could snag on clothes or equipment.
I guess I will have to wait for another two weeks and ask for Mr. Rogers' opinion at BCSD, IN.
I did not vote, by the way.
abnk ...
I'm another magwell gripper and I had a tape switch going from the light attached to the side of my magwell. Now I am experimenting with a vertical foregrip and the clickie switches. I solved the problem of light placement by mounting a pair of them (BigCraig has seen it). I now have "dual headlights." Probably not something I'd want to do if I had to carry the thing 20 miles uphill, but since it's a house gun, game gun, and class gun, the extra weight is not a big deal. And the redundancy is a good thing ... the most likely thing to fail in my gear is the light. Since being able to see to identify a threat 100% is mandatory, if one goes out I have a back-up even if I'm standing in my kitchen buck nekkid. Yeah, go ahead and get the visual. :D
Submariner
06-30-07, 14:37
My eyes, my eyes!!!:cool:
Right handed shooter using VFG. 9v SF on LT mount at 9 o'clock (thumb up) works pretty good.
On a scout light, though, I want it at 6 o'clock. Just haven't figured out the optimum switch.
My eyes, my eyes!!!:cool:
And remember . . . with two lights going, you'll always be able to see me! :D
I got to see how it handles with the dual headbeams yesterday during a lengthy multi-gun match. I shot it for three stages and my buddy borrowed it for two (the batteries in his EOTech went out without warning and SOMEone didn't zero his backup iron sights. :p ).
With the skinny barrel and other weight saving measures, the added mass of the second light wasn't even noticeable during target-to-target transitions. The only potential problem I saw was that the light switches are probably a little too easy to press accidentally for someone with thumbs significantly longer than mine (I have raccoon hands). I can solve that by rotating the tail caps until the switches are locked out when I loan it to someone else.
I think the lights would be a bit more cumbersome if I were still holding on the magwell. The vertical foregrip puts my hand right where it will support that weight easily without significantly affecting how it handles.
As always, the evolving proof is in the using and shooting.
My vote goes to the 6 O'clock position. IMO The six O'clock position is preferred when using your carbine to do room/building clearing as it is mounted directly in-line with your muzzle, and doesnt require you to expose more of you or your carbine when negotiating right or left handed corners.
I use the SF M900 weaponlight.
I've run a 9-volt surefire while using a magwell hold and it works just fine. The light is long enough that it pretty much clears the rail, and it's bright enough that there's enough ambient light that it doesn't have to clear the rail.
ET: I like this pic better
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/196/196030/folders/171062/1926930ARComplete.jpg
I've run a 9-volt surefire while using a magwell hold and it works just fine. The light is long enough that it pretty much clears the rail, and it's bright enough that there's enough ambient light that it doesn't have to clear the rail.
That looks like a good set-up, but my raccoon-like thumb would never reach the switch. It might be do-able for me with a Viking Tactics mount, which would lower the light a bit. I may have to try it if I finally decide to ditch the vertical foregrip.
A side benefit of my "dual head beams" (at roughly 5 and 7 o'clock) is that if I'm shooting around cover, I can use the outboard light for that side without moving anything but my thumb position.
I have the same conundrum. My favorite place for my support hand is the magwell, but I realize that with a clickie cap--which I prefer to tape switch--I will need a VFG. As of now, my support hand goes on the VFG with my thumb on the left of the weapon (I'm a right-handed shooter), same as it would on the magwell. I can't decide whether I should change my support hand grip to where my thumb goes around the VFG and have the light at 3 o'clock or keep the same grip and mount the light at 9 o'clock, of which I am not very fond as it could snag on clothes or equipment.
I guess I will have to wait for another two weeks and ask for Mr. Rogers' opinion at BCSD, IN.
I did not vote, by the way.
Update: Conundrum solved. :D
Pat suggested shooting with a high thumb, which came very natural to me since it's not much different than the mag well. He also showed me one of his ARs where the light is a G2 on a VTAC mount positioned between 10 and 11 o'clock. Pat said that he had run it hard without any problems.
That was proof enough for me. :D I bought two mounts (in case I break one) from VTAC and received them two days later. Super fast shipping if you ask me. Last night, I finally had some time to play with them. I wanted the light to clear the FST and as a right handed shooter, it was going to be either between 10 and 11 o'clock or between six and nine o'clock. I found the latter to interfere with the move of the swivel and to be a bit awkward to manipulate with the thumb. The former worked much better, though having the light clear the FST cost me moving the VFG--which used to be at the rearmost rail--two or three rails forward. Not a major incovenience since I also shortened my stock by three positions. In this position, the light does not protrude to far to the left since it sort of fills that gap between the top and left rails and is the most natural for me to manipulate.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o251/thmpr464/CIMG3107.jpg
3 o'clock feels comfortable for my setup.
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