View Full Version : i'm about to give up on looking for handguards.
i've been trying to get the correct handguard for my model 3 stag but no luck. the problem is that the top rail of my surefire m73 handguard does not line up with top of my stag upper . does anybody know or have an idea of which handguard lines up with the stag so that it will align correctly with my upper?
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00160.jpg
Knight Armament, or go to a free float system.
Knight Armament, or go to a free float system.
any Knight Armament will do?
I can't look at my work rifle at the moment but it is a USG SOPMOD M4 with a Knight RIS handguard, later I will look, I think there is an NSN on it. The RIS is the same height as the M4 flattop on my rifle.
KAC is same plane.. i'd bet the DD easy-CARs are too, but i don't know. but why does it matter, if i may ask?
KAC is same plane.. i'd bet the DD easy-CARs are too, but i don't know. but why does it matter, if i may ask?
the reason is because i bought a troy mrf rail that didn't line up plus the shop told me that it won't work because i will need to buy a 20 inch barrel as well as changing my upper to accomadate the troy rail.
no.. my question is, why do you want them to/care if they line up?
some things aren't adding up here, though...
what EXACTLY do you have, and what exactly do you want? we should just start from the beginning
If I might ask, what is your trying to accomplish?
From your last post, I honestly have no clue.
Edit...
Ok, I see from another thread, that you have a Stag Arms Model 3. This is the Carbine length hand guard, with the railed gas block.
You had ordered a Troy Battle Rail, 9" (for mid-lengths). This isn't going to work unless you change your gas block to a low profile version.
So, is there some reason you are looking for a continuous top rail? If you are, I'd suggest the Daniel Defense Omega Rail (http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=109). You could put it on at home, locks up well, doesn't require removal of the delta ring, and would give you the continuous top rail.
As a side note, it is best to not bridge optics from the top of the upper receiver to the hand guard. If that is what your intent is. If it's just looks, this should work for you.
I would like the rail on my handguard and the rail on my upper receiver to line up correctly making it look like one continuous rail. I have a stag model 3 and a surefire m73 handguard. in my inital post with the pic, the handguard rail is lower than my upper receiver rail. my question is that what quadrail can I purchase so that it lines up with my upper receiver? thats what I'm trying to accomplish.
i think youll need a free floating handguards for that. drop in usually dont.
If I might ask, what is your trying to accomplish?
From your last post, I honestly have no clue.
he wants the upper and the handguards to have the same plane.
indeed.. i'm not aware of any drop-in rail that simulates a monorail.
the closest you're gonna get is the DD Omega.. it's a drop-in free-floater http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=109
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/486fc8000ed2077f97dbf79fb08e4615.jpg
he wants the upper and the handguards to have the same plane.
the RAS is same plane- i guarantee it. but it doesn't mono out.
Even my Ergo Z Rail is same plane. I suspect there's something going on with that Stag upper...
Belmont31R
05-29-10, 20:14
Even my Ergo Z Rail is same plane. I suspect there's something going on with that Stag upper...
Why? Even on the Surefire website the M73 in their pics doesn't line up "same plane" as the upper.... http://www.surefire.com/M73-AR-M4-Picatinny-Forend
he wants the upper and the handguards to have the same plane.
and be continuous it sounds like.
The question is "why?"
Why? Even on the Surefire website the M73 in their pics doesn't line up "same plane" as the upper.... http://www.surefire.com/M73-AR-M4-Picatinny-Forend
I have to admit I didn't look, but I had always assumed all drop-ins were same plane. Kinda like assuming tires are black and round.
I have to admit I didn't look, but I had always assumed all drop-ins were same plane. Kinda like assuming tires are black and round.
i totally agree with HeavyDuty! i purchased the m73 at the shop when i picked up the stag from them. i should've checked the plane when i was there, big mistake! i always thought that manufacturers made their rails to match up with the uppers out there. next time i'll be more aware. it looks like i'll be going with the dd omega. thank you all for your help! much appreciated.
Surefire M73 was actually designed to be slightly below the receiver to allow for laser/light mounting IIRC.
Daniel Defense Omega provides a "bridge" to give a continuous appearance.
justin_247
05-30-10, 06:26
Surefire M73 was actually designed to be slightly below the receiver to allow for laser/light mounting IIRC.
Daniel Defense Omega provides a "bridge" to give a continuous appearance.
This is correct. The Surefire rails do not line up with the upper receiver because, by sitting lower, it gives you a better view of your FSB. I think it was an attempt at getting a military contract. Otherwise, I'm not a fan of Surefire rails.
But if the rails work for you, why do you want to ditch them?
Do you want to create a monolithic appearance or do you simply want the top rail to line up with the rail on the receiver?
For drop-in rails, if you want a monolithic appearance, look at the DD Omega and EZ Car rails. If you just want it to line up, look at the KAC RAS, Troy MRF-DI, or Ergo Z Rail.
SF rails do not line up with the receiver (on purpose). The rails were also designed by Dick Swan (FYI).
Does it matter? Yes and no. If you are going to mount a RDS on it with a BUIS mounted on the receiver, you are going to have an issue.
If you are going to mount a laser on the rail, it might be a benefit.
IMHO, there are better rails out there for the money.
C4
Dos Cylindros
05-30-10, 08:39
Just to add to this, the new Daniel Deffense drop in rail also bridges the gap and lines up with the top rail. It's not free float, but it is also a little cheaper as well.
Thanks justin, I just want them to line up. I picked up a troy 9 inch ff battle rail, it uses a triangular handguard cap and a 11 3/4 gas tube that I ordered from brownells. I'm going to attempt to tackle that when I get a chance when the parts arrive.
Thanks justin, I just want them to line up. I picked up a troy 9 inch ff battle rail, it uses a triangular handguard cap and a 11 3/4 gas tube that I ordered from brownells. I'm going to attempt to tackle that when I get a chance when the parts arrive.
You have a carbine length gas system the triangle cap aint going to help you niether is the long gas tube, all you need is a lo-pro gas block and someone to install it.
all you need is a lo-pro gas block and someone to install it.
i freakin' knew it! i should've asked more questions. do you have a recommendation for the lo-profile gas block?
The gas tube wont help because the gas port in your barrel wont move itself, the triangle cap is for use behind a front sight block (you know the old A-1 triangle sight). The lo pro gas block will fit under the 9" rail, which is good setup IMO, ask C4I Grant about which gas block to use, all the ones I can think of off hand use set screws which is not what you want for a serious use rifle for that you need one thats pinned on.
Robb Jensen
05-30-10, 10:46
I'd recommend a 10" Daniel Defense Lite Rail and a low pro gas block of your choice.
The M73's can be a huge asset if you're running a PEQ on it at 12:00 and an absolute cowitness red dot - past that, no.
Just get a KAC RAS, TROy MRF-DI, or DD Omega or EZ-Car.
justin_247
06-01-10, 10:20
Thanks justin, I just want them to line up. I picked up a troy 9 inch ff battle rail, it uses a triangular handguard cap and a 11 3/4 gas tube that I ordered from brownells. I'm going to attempt to tackle that when I get a chance when the parts arrive.
Two things:
(a) if the rail uses a triangular handguard cap, it is not a free-float rail (most likely it is some kind of drop-in MRF-DI). Being that you have a carbine-length gas system, and not a mid-length gas system like the rails were designed for, you cannot use these rails on this weapon.
(b) an 11 3/4 in. gas tube is for a mid-length gas system, not a carbine-length, and therefore you cannot use it for this, either.
You can do two things:
(a) sell the rail and gas tube. Use this money to buy yourself a carbine-length drop-in rail (DD Omega, DD EZ Car, Troy MRF-DI, or KAC RAS), a free-float rail that works with your existing gas block (DD Lite 7.0, DD Lite 9.5 FSP, DD Lite 12.0 FSP, DD Omega X 7.0, DD Omega X 12.0 FSP, Troy MRF-C, Troy MRF-CX, LaRue LT15-7), or a free-float rail where you shave down or swap out your gas block (DD Lite 9.0, DD Lite 10.0, DD Omega X 9.0, DD Omega X 12.0, LaRue LT15-9, LaRue LT15-10, LaRue LT15-11FL, Troy MRF-M, Troy MRF-MX, Troy MRF-RX). Install and enjoy.
(b) keep the rail and gas tube, and buy a mid-length barrel from BCM or DD.
If you do any of those two steps, you'll be G2G.
Measure twice, cut once. And it's always better to ask than to screw things up.
i've been trying to get the correct handguard for my model 3 stag but no luck. the problem is that the top rail of my surefire m73 handguard does not line up with top of my stag upper . does anybody know or have an idea of which handguard lines up with the stag so that it will align correctly with my upper?
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/blackmagic619/DSC00160.jpg
I installed a Daniel Defense 7" Omega rail on my Stag Model 1 and it forms a continuous rail with only a micro gap and it lines up perfectly. I have from the back up iron sight forward an ARMS #40L-SP BUIS, then an EOTech G23 flip to side magnifier, and then an EOTech 553 holographic sight with the two throw levers. On the EOTech 553 one of the levers is on the Omega rail and the other is on the Stag upper rail. I also have a Harris bipod on the front end of the rail. I went this route because I wanted to keep the standard front sight base instead of a flip up sight and I wanted a user friendly installation with no modification for my first rifle. However, on my SBR rifle with a 10.5" LMT upper and FSB I am going to install a DD 9.5" Lite FSB rail so I can run a Magpul AFG as far out as possible because a 7" rail just doesn't cut it.
On a side note I installed the 7" Omega rail on my LMT upper and it fit just as well, but have since moved it back to my Stag upper for the reason listed above.
Good luck...
indeed.. i'm not aware of any drop-in rail that simulates a monorail.
the closest you're gonna get is the DD Omega.. it's a drop-in free-floater http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=109
http://www.danieldefense.com/img/product/486fc8000ed2077f97dbf79fb08e4615.jpg
Thread drift;
Anyone know how that DD rail drops in and is still a FF rail? I'm curious, the engineering interests me, and that it's drop in thus easier to install on issued rifles.
Anyone know how that rail performs?
Thread drift;
Anyone know how that DD rail drops in and is still a FF rail? I'm curious, the engineering interests me, and that it's drop in thus easier to install on issued rifles.
Anyone know how that rail performs?
If you go to the "photos" tab on the product link above, you'll be able to better see how it fits up. It's a bit of a misnomer to call it "drop-in"; while it doesn't require removal of the handguard cap and delta ring, it does still clamp onto the existing barrel nut. You can see the set screws that do the clamping in the detailed pictures.
Thread drift;
Anyone know how that DD rail drops in and is still a FF rail? I'm curious, the engineering interests me, and that it's drop in thus easier to install on issued rifles.
Anyone know how that rail performs?
it clamps to, and hangs off, the barrel nut. they're very secure.
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