AAR EAG Carbine Puebl West 19-21May07

[Pat_Rogers]

We did out first ever Colorado class at Pueblo West on 19-21May 2007. This was an open enrollment class and had what is almost normal for these classes in population. Almost, because one of the students was a guy who I came in the Marine Corps with and was with in RVN. I hadn’t seen him in over 41 years…..
There were a number of others in that class that I haven’t seen in a while, and it was nice to be able to train with them again.
I’ve changed planes in Denver before, but this was my first time in CO and the geography was breathtaking (as was the WX…)
The Pueblo West Sportsmen’s Range was very much an oasis in a sea of liberal nonsense, and a great place to shoot.
As always, most people can shoot- that is a relatively simple task. The problems arrive when we stroll into fighting with a gun. Poor reloads, insufficient or poorly defined malfunction clearances and failing to transition to a workable secondary weapon are all things that have to be overcome when developing a combat mindset.
Fortunately, most who take the time to receive adult education will come to understand this, and repetitive drills will build the required skill sets.
It only takes one or two guns that are poor performers to slow a class down. Having a spare gun/ spare BCG would go a long way to keeping things on track, but starting with a good gun would be a lot better.
I continue to be unimpressed with the PRI charging handle. While useful for running a can, they are more difficult to use then the Badger Tac Latch and to add insult to injury, I broke two on this swing- one at Memphis and one here at Pueblo (both involved the role pins breaking- grrrrrr).
Bad magazines are the nemesis of students, and this class was no exception. Magazines wear, feed lips spread, and manufacturers are subject to the law of averages.
Ammunition problems likewise continue, with popped primers (indicative of pressure problems as well as bad cases) plagued some. There is no easy answer to this, and it is likely to get worse before it gets better.
Cheap optics produce cheap results. In one case this was a test to see if an off brand tubular red dot would hold up. It worked until the morning of TD2, when it failed big time.
The Ned Christiansen MOACKS tool continues to earn its keep. One RRA gun had an obvious gas problem and the bolt key was the obvious culprit. We staked a total of 3 bolts that had no/ insufficient stakes.
Another bolt was found to have a crack at the cam pin hole, but prior to suffering a catastrophic failure. FWIW, this was not a bolt that had been MPI’d. Cutting corners on some things may be only penny wise.

Many thanks to Mike Hueser and Josh for keeping the class running and maintaining guns.
Kudos to Jeff Carpenter for getting this class off the ground, and to the board and members of The Pueblo West Sportsmen’s Club for their hospitality and use of their terrific facility. There are few clubs that allow realistic training to take place, catering instead to hobby shooters and hunters. The fact that all can coexist is a tribute to the board- Thanks guys!!

Also thanks to CamelBak, Viking Tactics, Larue Tactical and TangoDown for their continued support!

[Hawkeye]

Pat, Are you reffering to the PRI gas buster charging handles as a whole, or just the PRI big latch's? I have been running the big latches on all my charging handles for some time now with good service, but I definitely want to know if there are issues with them or if they are suspect in any way.

[Pat_Rogers]

The big latch.
I only have 3 of them. One broke in the Memphis class, and the replacement broke at Pueblo.
Beats me why, but while it is fairly necessary while running a can, i like the Badger better anyway (and Paul Buffoni is sending me 4 out).
Hope this helps.

[Hawkeye]

Roger that. Thanks much. Guess I'll pick up a few Badgers to have on hand in case my PRI's go south. Do you prefer the Gen I or Gen II Badgers?

[Pat_Rogers]

I've been using the gen 1. They aren't perfect, but fit my requirements.

[Jay Cunningham]

One RRA gun had an obvious gas problem and the bolt key was the obvious culprit. We staked a total of 3 bolts that had no/ insufficient stakes.
Another bolt was found to have a crack at the cam pin hole, but prior to suffering a catastrophic failure. FWIW, this was not a bolt that had been MPI’d. Cutting corners on some things may be only penny wise.

This continues to astound and amaze me. The evidence continues to pile up regarding the "just as good as" rifles and components. Pat, are you still maintaining a log on this stuff? You should publish it as a technical journal some day...

[UVvis]

The RRA bolt issues were odd. I'm no technical expert, but as it was described to me, the cam pin hole was drilled at the wrong angle, so the bolt couldn't turn full cycle. I did watch that particular gun stovepipe a few times, it is always interesting in an academic way to see malfunctions happen.

I had a great deal of fun at the course and learned much. Thanks to Jeff for making this happen, and Pat, Michael, and Josh for spending time teaching weirdos like me.

I am strongly one eye dominant and have little binocular vision. When we occluded our sights, it was like shooting in the dark for me, not something I would ever try to count on. I'd be better off turning the gun and sight off the barrel, or going with my crappy pistol skills. When we did this on one target I did fairly well at first, mostly out of luck. Basically, remember where the target was, point the gun at it and fire. With failure drills I was having a hard time hitting the target with the aimpoint lens cap up.

My weakness were that I needed to calm down and take my time to shoot better and faster. I also need to work on multiple targets and to quit muscling the gun as much as I tend to do. I need more practice on my offhand and firing while moving, this combined with moving is where I dropped most of my points on the qual course. Making more time to practice the basics would greatly help me take the slop out of my shooting. A sloppy hit is still a hit, but I'm not happy with it, especially when I can do better. I would benefit by having more practice time.

Like Pat mentioned several times, it is easy to play to your strengths and do what is fun. The real value for someone like me is seeing where your weaknesses are, which is hard to do by self diagnostics. Good instructors can identify, diagnose, and ride you till you get things right or start down the path to fixing things. Plus these courses give you a list of drills and skills to work on to help round out your shooting capabilities.

I'd also like to throw out a big thank you to Tango Down for all the free goodies I picked up. It says a great deal when a company supports trainers, training courses and their customer base in this way.

The shooters there were also a great group.

When Pat had us practicing speed reloads with every mag on our bodies, well, I had 8-9 mags. At the end, I dumped my last mag and found I had no more. Pat was looking at me, making moose related gestures and shaking his head...

Nick

[Zak Smith]

Had a great time, learned a thing or two. Hope to train with you guys again.

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_4980_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_4980_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_4980_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5039_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5039_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5039_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5325_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5325_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5325_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5568_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5568_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5568_img.jpg)

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5155_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5155_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5155_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5230_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5230_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5230_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5232_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5232_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5232_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5351_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5351_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5351_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5538_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5538_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5538_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5580_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5580_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5580_img.jpg)


Lots more here
http://demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/

Will have about 60 more trickle in as I get a chance to pixelize out some faces.

You notice some funny shit in photos that you don't notice happen when it happens...

[Zak Smith]

http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/smaller/D101_5160_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5160_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/~zak/DigiCam/EAG-Carbine-2007/?small=D101_5160_img.jpg)

[vitiaz]

Pat,
Thanks again for the great class. Your 2 assistants(Mike & Josh) were outstanding in their technical knowledge and teaching skills. And thanks to Jeff for hosting and organizing the class.

One of the pleasant surprises in the class was the "offline"
content. Talking w/ you, Josh & Mike as well with the other shooters(a great bunch) during the breaks and after class on topics such as bolt maintenance, gear "tweaks" and 100 other shooting related topics was not only informative but just plain fun.

Hope you guys didn't hit too much snow going over to Durango(they were saying 8" at 8,500 ft.) Glad you got to experience "springtime in the Rockies".

I'll go and work on "Monica" and "shootin' on the move" and see you next May. One more thing, here is the link to the Weisbrod Museum east of Pueblo that has the B-29, Weisbrod Aircraft Museum http://www.pwam.org/

Stay safe,
-Bill

[Zak Smith]

I have run several of the PRI "Big Latch-Military (Weenie)" latch on the stock charging handles for a few years. Is this the item you're talking about failing at the pin?

http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/graphics/00000001/PRI-Big-Latch.gif

[Obiwan]

thanks Zak

Like I didn't already feel bad enough about not being able to make it:(

Maybe next time it can be scheduled to miss softball season

[jmart]

Ammunition problems likewise continue, with popped primers (indicative of pressure problems as well as bad cases) plagued some. There is no easy answer to this, and it is likely to get worse before it gets better.

Cheap optics produce cheap results. In one case this was a test to see if an off brand tubular red dot would hold up. It worked until the morning of TD2, when it failed big time.


Pat,

Any idea if the ammo was factory or reloaded? Also, do you recall the pedigree of the cheap optic? Are we talking NcStar/airsoft quality or are we talking something a bit higher on the price scale?

[UVvis]

Pat,

Any idea if the ammo was factory or reloaded? Also, do you recall the pedigree of the cheap optic? Are we talking NcStar/airsoft quality or are we talking something a bit higher on the price scale?

The optic was a millet red dot I think.