View Full Version : Gaza-bound blockade runners- update (10 dead)
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians
Israeli prime minister cancels White House meeting
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AP – This video image released by the Turkish Aid group IHH Monday May 31, 2010 purports to show Israeli soldiers …
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Play VideoVideo:Activists dead as Israel storms ship Reuters
Play VideoVideo:Up to 19 dead as Israel forces storm Gaza aid boat AFP
30 mins ago
JERUSALEM – Israel's prime minister has called off a planned visit to the White House to deal with a crisis over a botched naval raid that killed 10 pro-Palestinian activists.
Netanyahu, who is in Canada, was set to travel to Washington to meet with President Barack Obama on Tuesday. But his office says he decided to return home early after Monday's commando raid.
The commandos intercepted a flotilla of activists trying to deliver aid to the Gaza Strip. The deadly crackdown has drawn widespread international condemnations.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli naval commandos stormed a flotilla of ships carrying aid and hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists to the blockaded Gaza Strip on Monday, killing at least 10 passengers in a predawn raid that set off worldwide condemnation and a diplomatic crisis.
Israel said its commandos were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers after they rappelled from a helicopter to board one of the vessels.
Dozens of activists and at least 10 Israeli soldiers were wounded in the bloody confrontation in international waters.
Reaction was swift and harsh, with a massive protest breaking out in Turkey, Israel's longtime Muslim ally, which unofficially supported the mission. Ankara announced it would recall its ambassador and call off military exercises with the Jewish state.
The bloody showdown came at a sensitive time in Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was to meet Tuesday with President Barack Obama to discuss the next round in U.S.-led indirect negotiations. From Toronto, Netanyahu spoke by telephone with top Israeli officials and expressed his "full backing" for the military, according to a statement from the army.
The White House said in a written statement that the United States "deeply regrets" the loss of life and injuries and was working to understand the circumstances surrounding this "tragedy."
The activists were headed to Gaza on a mission meant to draw attention to the blockade, which Israel and Egypt imposed after the militant Hamas group seized the territory of 1.5 million Palestinians in 2007.
There were conflicting accounts of what happened early Monday, with activists claiming the Israelis fired first and Israel insisting its forces fired in self defense. Communications to the ships were cut off shortly after the raid began.
An Israeli commando who spoke to reporters on a naval vessel off the coast, and who was identified only by the first letter of his name, "A," said he and his comrades were surprised by a group of Arabic-speaking men when they rapelled onto the deck.
He said some of the soldiers, taken off guard, were stripped of their helmets and equipment and thrown from the top deck to the lower deck, and that some had even jumped overboard to save themselves. At one point one of the passengers seized one of the soldiers' weapons and opened fire.
A high-ranking naval official displayed a box confiscated from the boat containing switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats. "We prepared (the soldiers) to deal with peace activists, not to fight," he said. Most of the 10 dead were Turkish, he added.
A Turkish website showed video of pandemonium on board one of the ships, with activists in orange life jackets running around as some tried to help an activist apparently unconscious on the deck. The site also showed video of an Israeli helicopter flying overhead and Israeli warships nearby.
Turkey's NTV showed activists beating one Israeli soldier with sticks as he rappelled from a helicopter onto one of the boats.
Activists said Israeli naval commandos stormed the ships after ordering them to stop in international waters, about 80 miles (130 kilometers) from Gaza's coast.
An Al-Jazeera reporter on one of the Turkish ships said the Israelis fired at the vessel before boarding it. The pan-Arab satellite channel reported by telephone from the Turkish ship leading the flotilla that Israeli navy forces fired at the ship and boarded it, wounding the captain.
"These savages are killing people here, please help," a Turkish television reporter said.
The broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"
In a news conference in Tel Aviv, Israel's military chief of staff and navy commander said the troops were able to take over the five other boats without incident and all of the violence was centered on the boat carrying most of the flotilla's passengers, the Turkish-owned Mavi Marmara.
Troops were attacked, said Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, and an unspecified number of troops were helicoptered to hospital suffering from gunshots, knife wounds and blows.
"To me it is clear without a doubt, judging by what I saw and what I heard in the first reports from the soldiers, that in light of the danger to human life this violence required the use of weapons, and in my opinion the soldiers acted as they should have in this situation," Ashkenazi said.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak expressed regret for the loss of life, but called IHH, a Turkish group organizing the sea convoy, a violent organization "operating under cover of humanitarian activity."
The ships were being towed to the Israeli port of Ashdod, and wounded were evacuated by helicopter to Israeli hospitals, officials said. Two ships had reached port by midday.
Many of the passengers were from European countries.
The European Union deplored what it called excessive use of force and demanded an investigation by Israel. The EU said the blockade of Gaza, now in its fourth year, is "politically unacceptable," and called for an immediate, sustained opening of crossings into the Hamas-controlled territory, according to a statement by EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton.
Turkey called on the U.N. Security Council to convene in an emergency session about Israel.
Thousands marched in protest in Istanbul, some setting Israeli flags on fire after trying to storm the Israeli consulate. Israel quickly advised to its citizens to avoid travel to Turkey. In neighboring Jordan, hundreds demonstrated in the capital Amman to protest the Israeli action and demand that their government breaks diplomatic relations with the Jewish state.
Israeli security forces were on alert across the country for possible protests.
There were no details on the identities of the casualties, or on the conditions of some of the more prominent people on board, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein, 85.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the Israeli "aggression," declared three days of mourning across the West Bank and called on the U.N. Security Council and Arab League to hold emergency sessions on the incident.
Ismail Haniyeh, leader of the rival Hamas government in Gaza, condemned the "brutal" Israeli attack and called on U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to intervene.
In Uganda, Ban condemned the deaths of the activists and called for a "thorough" investigation. "Israel must provide an explanation," he said.
The activists were headed to Gaza on a mission meant to draw attention to a 3-year-old Israeli blockade of the coastal territory. Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade after Hamas, which it considers a terrorist group, violently seized the territory. Critics say the blockade has unfairly hurt Gaza's 1.5 million people.
Before the ships set sail from waters off the east Mediterranean island of Cyprus on Sunday, Israel had urged the flotilla not to try to breach the blockade and offered to transfer some of the cargo to Gaza from an Israeli port, following a security inspection.
The violent takeover threatened to deal yet another blow to Israel's international image, already tarnished by war crimes accusations in Gaza and its blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory.
Organizers included people affiliated with the International Solidarity Movement, a pro-Palestinian group that often sends international activists into battle zones, and the IHH.
The Turkish group is an Islamic humanitarian group that is based in Istanbul but operates in several other countries. Israel recently arrested the IHH's West Bank operative, but said his arrest was not related to the planned aid mission.
Hasan Naiboglu, the Turkish maritime affairs undersecretary, told the Anatolia news agency that Israel had jammed communications with the ships. He accused Israel of violating international law by carrying out the raid in international waters.
Turkey had unofficially supported the aid mission and has been vocally critical of Israeli military operations against Palestinians in Gaza.
The flotilla of three cargo ships and three passenger ships carrying 10,000 tons of aid and 700 activists was carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials.
This is the ninth time that the Free Gaza movement has tried to ship in humanitarian aid to Gaza since August 2008.
Israel has allowed ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since a three-week military offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers in January 2009.
The latest flotilla was the largest to date.
___
Goldenberg reported from aboard the Israeli warship INS Kidon. AP writer Selcan Hacaoglu contributed to this report from Ankara.
Well, this ended up looking bad for Israel, but IMO they tried to do the right thing. The video clip (from Reuters?) is a bit of a laugh- about 3 mins of agit-prop followed by 10 sec of fair balance. The video is worth watching, since the Israeli spokesman at the end notes that the flotilla was given the option to land in an open port and have all humanitarian cargo trucked into Gaza. You'd never know that such an option was offered by watching/reading the MSM.:(
VooDoo6Actual
05-31-10, 11:03
FLIR images
so much for palistinian innocence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&has_verified=1
why does a humanitarian mission require 700 peace activist ?
Preferred User
05-31-10, 11:25
why does a humanitarian mission require 700 peace activist ?
Better question, why does a humanitarian mission require weapons: A high-ranking naval official displayed a box confiscated from the boat containing switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats.
However boarding the ship in International water will just give those fighting against Israel more ammunition to recruit fanatics and more reason to continue the fight. It would have been far better for Israel to show the blockade runners ramming a ship or in some other way threatening harm and then board and show what they were bringing to Gaza. Unfortunately war is not a PR mission and those armchair general afterthoughts may not have take into account the reality of the situation.
Better question, why does a humanitarian mission require weapons: A high-ranking naval official displayed a box confiscated from the boat containing switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats.
However boarding the ship in International water will just give those fighting against Israel more ammunition to recruit fanatics and more reason to continue the fight. It would have been far better for Israel to show the blockade runners ramming a ship or in some other way threatening harm and then board and show what they were bringing to Gaza. Unfortunately war is not a PR mission and those armchair general afterthoughts may not have take into account the reality of the situation.
Agree with your last.
I am not an admiralty law/law of the sea guy at all, but I *think* that wartime conventions allow for board-search-seizure of blockade running vessels in international waters. The alternative would seem to be to wait until the subject vessel(s) is/are within sight of land before doing anything.
Basically, it sound like the Israelis fast-roped onto the boat and got jumped as they came off the ropes. Not good.
FLIR images
so much for palistinian innocence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&has_verified=1
totally. good post, sir.
fyi- you need a youtube account to view this piece, but I saw the video on an IDF PAO-type website. Very telling, and very damning IMO towards the so-called "peace activists".
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-10, 14:24
Today the Palestinians, tomorrow those Whale Wars idiots!!!!
Another article from MSN.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa
JERUSALEM - Israeli naval commandos stormed a flotilla of ships carrying aid and hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists to the blockaded Gaza Strip on Monday, killing nine passengers in a botched raid that provoked international outrage and a diplomatic crisis.
Dozens of activists and six Israeli soldiers were wounded in the bloody predawn confrontation in international waters. The violent takeover dealt yet another blow to Israel's international image, already tarnished by war crimes accusations in Gaza and its 3-year-old blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanhayu canceled a much-anticipated meeting with President Barack Obama in Washington on Tuesday in a sign of just how gravely Israel viewed the uproar. In Canada, Netanyahu announced he was rushing home but said he had called the American president and agreed to meet again.
The White House said in a written statement that the United States "deeply regrets" the loss of life and injuries and was working to understand the circumstances surrounding this "tragedy."
The activists were headed to Gaza to draw attention to the blockade, which Israel and Egypt imposed after the militant Hamas group seized the territory of 1.5 million Palestinians in 2007.
There were conflicting accounts of what happened early Monday, with activists claiming the Israelis opened fire without provocation and Israel insisting its forces fired in self defense.
'Our soldiers had to defend themselves'
Speaking alongside the Canadian prime minister, Netanyahu expressed "regret" for the loss of life but said the soldiers had no choice. "Our soldiers had to defend themselves, defend their lives, or they would have been killed," he said.
Israel said it opened fire after its commandos were attacked by knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers after they rappelled from a helicopter at about 4 a.m. to board one of the vessels.
Late Monday, it released a grainy black-and-white video that it said supported its version of events, with activists swarming around commandos after they descended from a helicopter by rope onto the lead boat, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, carrying 600 people. Activists scuffled with the commandos and are seen throwing an object the military identified as a firebomb.
A commando who spoke to reporters on a naval vessel off the coast, identified only as "A," said he and his comrades were taken off guard by a group of Arabic-speaking men when they landed on the deck.
Some soldiers were stripped of their helmets and equipment and thrown from the top deck to the lower deck, and some had even jumped overboard to save themselves, the commando said. At one point one of the activists seized one of the soldiers' weapons and opened fire, the commando said.
Communications to the ships were cut shortly after the raid began, and activists were kept away from reporters after their boats were towed to the Israeli port of Ashdod.
Helicopters evacuated the wounded to Israeli hospitals, officials said. Five ships had reached port by early evening and some 136 activists had been removed without serious incident, the military said.
Sixteen were jailed for refusing to identify themselves, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. Israel had said activists would be given the choice to be deported or imprisoned.
Israeli officials said the death toll was nine with 30 wounded, after earlier saying 10 people were killed. It said the final tally was reached after bringing all six boats in the flotilla under control.
Most of the dead were Turkish
A high-ranking naval official displayed a box confiscated from the boat containing switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats. Most of the dead were Turkish, he said.
In a sign the soldiers didn't anticipate such fierce resistance, two commandos told The Associated Press that the primary weapons were guns that fired paintballs — a nonlethal weapon that can be used to subdue crowds. They said they resorted to lethal handgun fire after they were assaulted.
Turkey's NTV network showed activists beating one commando with sticks as he landed on one of the boats. Dr. Arnon Afek, deputy director of Chaim Sheba Medical Center outside Tel Aviv, said two commandos were brought in with gunshot wounds. Another had serious head wounds from an unspecified blow, Afek added.
'Murder conducted by a state'
Relations with Turkey, a key supporter of the aid flotilla but also until recently Israel's staunchest ally in the Muslim world, were badly damaged by Monday's events, possibly irreparably. Ankara announced it would recall its ambassador and call off all military exercises with Israel. Around 10,000 Turks marched in protest.
At the U.N., Turkey's Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu called the raid "murder conducted by a state" and demanded an immediate Israeli apology, international legal action and an end to the blockade.
The bloody showdown came at a sensitive time for Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking. Netanyahu had hoped to receive a high-profile expression of support from Obama after months of strained relations over Israeli settlement construction.
Obama voiced "deep regret," over the raids, and the White House said he and Netanyahu agreed by phone to reschedule White House talks. The U.S. recently began mediating indirect peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians following a 17-month breakdown in contacts.
Israel's immediate concern on Monday was what to do about the boats and their passengers. It ferried the wounded to hospitals by helicopter and towed the six ships to port, giving each of the activists a choice of deportation or imprisonment.
By late Monday, about 150 of the activists — most from Turkey — had been taken off the boats, Israeli Interior Ministry spokeswoman Sabine Haddad said, adding the process would continue into Tuesday. She said about 30 had agreed to be deported, and the rest would be imprisoned.
A commando who spoke to reporters on a naval vessel off the coast, identified only as "A," said he and his comrades were taken off guard by a group of Arabic-speaking men when they rappelled onto the deck. He said some of the soldiers were stripped of their helmets and their pistols and some had jumped overboard to escape the violence.
A high-ranking naval official displayed a box confiscated from the boat containing switchblades, slingshots, metal balls and metal bats.
Turkey's NTV network showed activists beating one commando with sticks as he landed on deck. Dr. Arnon Afek, deputy director of Chaim Sheba Medical Center outside Tel Aviv, said two commandos were brought in with gunshot wounds. Another had serious head wounds, Afek added.
At Barzilai hospital in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, a few activists trickled in under military escort, claiming they had been beaten during the assault.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the Israeli "massacre" and declared three days of mourning across the West Bank.
Ismail Haniyeh, leader of the rival Hamas government in Gaza, condemned the "brutal" Israeli attack and called on U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to intervene.
After nightfall, Hamas-linked militants fired a rocket that exploded in Israel, the militants and the Israeli military said. Nobody was hurt. The militants said the rocket attack was in response to Israel's raid on the flotilla.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-10, 16:31
Dozens of activists and six Israeli soldiers were wounded in the bloody predawn confrontation in international waters. The violent takeover dealt yet another blow to Israel's international image, already tarnished by war crimes accusations in Gaza and its 3-year-old blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory.
Now, that is objective. No reason for the blockade I guess. The Gazans weren't accused of war crimes, where they?
My favorite line in the reports is about how they just want to deliver cement. I'm sure it is for patios and pools, not bunkers and tunnels. :rolleyes:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0IHb8VeV46M
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-10, 23:23
Those are some violent peace activists.
thopkins22
05-31-10, 23:31
Footage from on the ship itself.:eek: I'm no expert, but that sure as hell felt like I was watching something that called for deadly force. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7O5N1Gh3tjo&feature=related
VS. Al Jazeera coverage of same incident. http://youtube.com/watch?v=xFEBbDkyrqQ&feature=related
ETA:To be honest, I'm surprised the body count wasn't higher. I rarely give the Israelis credit for restraint...but I'm reevaluating that position.
both of those FLIR videos are very dramatic, and informative..it is clear that those soldiers were being attacked with deadly force..some balls on those dudes as well to rapel down into that cauldron..peace activists my ass
It also really looked like the soldiers were armed with less-than-lethals in that last video.
VooDoo6Actual
06-01-10, 07:09
Link to Weapons etc. seized from Mavi Marmara
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-of-weapons-found-aboard-terror.html
Second Audio on link :
"Jihad, Jihad, Jihad" ....
John_Wayne777
06-01-10, 07:18
Those are some violent peace activists.
My thoughts as well. The Israelis fast roped onto the boat with less lethals as their primary weapons.
Now if I was on that team and watched a couple of my teammates get stabbed by the "peace activists" or thrown overboard, I believe I'd draw my sidearm and use it rather than the pepper ball gun.
The "peace activists" were playing for keeps. Zero sympathy from me.
FLIR images
so much for palistinian innocence.
Thanks for keeping the truth at the forefront.
Sadly we have many that would see Israel overrun to appease the maniacs. Or for whatever reason. :rolleyes:
SW-Shooter
06-01-10, 16:18
So Turkish warships will escort the next flotilla. As a "good Jew", I guess I need to start getting my stuff in order to head home. I hope they will accept me as cannon fodder, at 43 and not entirely in the best of shape (not the worst either)I pray they would let me in.
Now if I was on that team and watched a couple of my teammates get stabbed by the "peace activists" or thrown overboard, I believe I'd draw my sidearm and use it rather than the pepper ball gun.
I never understood why they dropped in so outnumbered...is this a normal practice or just a bad call??
so much for palistinian innocence
Talk about an oxymoron
I never understood why they dropped in so outnumbered...is this a normal practice or just a bad call??
Both, I think.
There is a lot of second-guessing on the lack of hard intel being had by the Israelis re: the number of people on that ferry- but the ship is very large, like a miniature cruise ship. Almost any helo-deployable unit would've been way outnumbered, I suppose.
So Turkish warships will escort the next flotilla. As a "good Jew", I guess I need to start getting my stuff in order to head home. I hope they will accept me as cannon fodder, at 43 and not entirely in the best of shape (not the worst either)I pray they would let me in.
I suspect, or at least hope you can stay local for now. We can see that the impulsive international reactions appear to have quelled a bit, this almost certainly due to the images depicting the soldiers being overtly attacked upon landing.
But I wonder, why is even FOX not showing what our friend HOP and others have here? No one seems to be relaying that relevant video anywhere, even them. But I could be missing it via bad timing I suppose.
Too bad they didn't somehow sabotage the boat in the water so that it would sink. Israel was set up to take blame from the beginning with willing accomplices in the media so why not? This tribe member says good on my fellow Jews. The IHH has been demonstrated in court to fund known terrorist groups. F*** 'em. The blockade will not be called off; no matter what the piece of sh** U.N. says; or anyone else.
I have not seen this reported in the news, but a friend who is a reliable source on scene told me that the cargo that was confiscated included a quantity of night vision goggles, ballistic vests, gas masks, sections of pipe used in the construction of rocket bodies, and cement for bunkers…
B
I wouldn't doubt it. In the second link Hoploethos provided one of the videos shows images of gas masks. My question to that is, why do "peace activists" need them?
Cagemonkey
06-01-10, 20:51
Its scary how Turkey is becoming less secular and becoming more radicalized in its Muslim beliefs. With our current Presidential administrations anti Israeli sympathies and the resurgence of European anti semitism along with the Iranian nuclear situation and Turkey's newfound anti Israeli policies, I can see the pieces of Armageddon coming together. I'm no Evangelical. I'm no church goer. I guess I know enough to be dangerous. This is starting to get too real. It makes your mind start to wander.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-02-10, 02:45
Tell Turkey they should have let troops in for the northern front in Iraq invasion, and tell them if they don't pip down, we'll stop making noise about how they should be able to join the EU.
It's not that I'm so pro-Israel its just I'm anti-terrorist.
The Jihadists and Communists have been trying to get a South-African style boycott going against Israel since the Arabs adopted ADL tactics on college campuses in the late 90's to turn left-wing students against Isreal. Their efforts have been extremely successful, virtually every left leaning organization on college campuses supports "ending the apartheid", these organizations are where the Democrat party gets their "new" political figures / apparatchiks. Since they have been doing this since the 1990's, the former left wing students that subscribe to this ideology are now in their prime, 30-40 years old.
When I was on several state university campuses in 1999, if the sentiment wasn't 100% anti-israel among left wingers, it must have been very close. All those people are now 30-something rising stars in "the party". The indoctrination your average left winger gets on a college campus is straight Karl Marx communism. Not just statists, or "bigger government is better government" types, but complete adherents to the 10 point communist agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto#10_point_program_of_Communism
Most left wingers would like to see Israel wiped off the map for either or all of these reasons...
A) They hate jews (mostly mexicans and other non-jewish immigrants from zee old countries). The classic "jews run the world, open my mail, and sabotaged my mr coffee" types.
B) They don't like that Israel is kind of a secular American-ish country instead of a workers 10-point paradise. Even the kibbutz's went pseudo-capitalist.
C) Hurting Israel hurts conservatives, or rather the most hated type of conservative, the Christian evangelical. Nothing much against Israel, they just hate southerners that much.
Israel is running a very bad PR campaign in the USA right now and has been since the Arabs started getting really aggressive on the alliance with the communists. Botched operations like the boat raid go to show that there's some sort of internal disconnect going on with that country right now. Difficult to pinpoint, but it almost resembles the liberal backstabbing that occurs whenever our troops go overseas. S'13 is a very elite commando unit, the baddest of the badasses. You've got to wonder how the IDF retained/promoted some commander that would ever consider ordering them to rope down one by one with pepper ball guns onto a cruise ship filled with a crap load of rioters, I mean peace activists.
Crazy.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-02-10, 08:46
You've got to wonder how the IDF retained/promoted some commander that would ever consider ordering them to rope down one by one with pepper ball guns onto a cruise ship filled with a crap load of rioters, I mean peace activists.
I can see a funny SNL skit parodying the 'Love Boat', if SNL had the balls to do it. It's all peace and love till the Isreal's show up and then the knives and bats come out.
Cagemonkey
06-02-10, 17:57
Col Ralph Peters had a good editorial today about Turkey's new ambitions to be the center of Arab Islam.
Gutshot John
06-02-10, 18:12
Col Ralph Peters had a good editorial today about Turkey's new ambitions to be the center of Arab Islam.
Turks aren't Arab.
Turks aren't Arab.
Not entirely, but they are Muslim.
Those are some violent peace activists.
Watching the vids made by both sides, The IDF showed HUGE restraint and could have killed 100+ people in a few minutes had they chosen to, but they didn't.
You fast rope onto a ship and are swarmed by 6-10 people per IDF with clubs, knives, etc, and you have paint ball guns... The second they started to club, stab, etc the IDF team, they could have (should have in my view) delivered the true slaughter the peace loving boaters are wining about, but they didn't.
Watching those vids, my respect for the IDF members caught in that cluster fu*& went up and my opinion of the "we are just peace loving flotilla trying to deliver baby food and supplies" that much lower.
20mm love from a gun ship converting them all to red mist might be what they receive the next time. Doubt Israel will make that mistake again.
GermanSynergy
06-02-10, 18:40
I love it how the media calls the people on the boat "activists". Why not call them what they really are? Either Communist rabble rousers or Islamist sympathizers. They were looking for trouble, and found it when the IDF boarding team got there. Zero sympathy for the "activists" from me.
Col Ralph Peters had a good editorial today about Turkey's new ambitions to be the center of Arab Islam.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ
this was from yesterday
Cagemonkey
06-02-10, 18:53
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ
this was from yesterdayYa, thats it. It was in todays Boston Herald. Thanx for posting the link.
Thought this was an interesting read.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/02/AR2010060203561.html
PARIS -- The Turkish Islamic charity behind a flotilla of aid ships that was raided by Israeli forces on its way to Gaza had ties to terrorism networks, including a 1999 al-Qaida plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport, France's former top anti-terrorism judge said Wednesday.
The Istanbul-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, had "clear, long-standing ties to terrorism and Jihad," former investigating judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.
Bruguiere, who led the French judiciary's counterterrorism unit for nearly two decades before retiring in 2007, didn't indicate whether IHH now has terror ties, but said it did when he investigated it in the late 1990s.
"They were basically helping al-Qaida when (Osama) bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil," he said.
Some members of an international terrorism cell known as the Fateh Kamel network then worked at the IHH, he said. Kamel, an Algerian-Canadian dual national, had ties to the nascent al-Qaida, Bruguiere said.
Among Kamel's followers was Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian who was arrested in the U.S. state of Washington in December 1999 on his way to bomb Los Angeles International Airport as part of an al-Qaida plot.
"IHH had a role in the organization that led to the plot," Bruguiere said, reiterating sworn testimony he made in a U.S. Federal Court during Ressam's trial. Ressam is serving a 22-year prison sentence.
Bruguiere issued an international warrant for Kamel, Ressam's former mentor, who was extradited from Jordan to France in 1999 and sentenced to eight years in prison on terror-related charges.
IHH vehemently denies ties to radical groups. The group is not among some 45 groups listed as terrorists by the U.S. State Department's Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism. Nine people on board the IHH flotilla were killed by Israeli forces on Monday.
"We are a legal organization," IHH board member Omer Faruk Korkmaz said late Wednesday in response to Bruguiere's statements. "We have nothing to do with any illegal organization," he said.
"We don't know Ahmed Ressam or Fateh Kamel," Korkmaz said. "We don't approve of the actions of any terrorist organization in the world."
French investigators found in the 1990s that "several members of Fateh Kamel's network worked at the IHH as a cover," Bruguiere said. "It was too systematic and too widespread for the NGO (non-governmental organization) not to know" their real goal, he said.
The former judge, renowned for tracking down convicted terrorist Carlos the Jackal, said he didn't believe the IHH could have been infiltrated by terrorists without its knowledge.
"It's hard to prove, but all elements of the investigation showed that part of the NGO served to hide jihad-type activities," Bruguiere said. "I'm convinced this was a clear strategy, known by IHH."
The judge said he was personally involved in a raid with French and Turkish police at IHH headquarters in Istanbul in 1998, where they found weapons, false documents and other "incriminating" material.
"It was clearly proven that some of the NGO's work was not charity, it was to provide a facade for moving funds, weapons and mujahedeen to and from Bosnia and Afghanistan" - areas focused on by Islamic militants then.
In Istanbul, Korkmaz, of IHH, confirmed the late '90s police raid but denied that any weapons were found and said there was no evidence found of links to militancy.
Bruguiere would not specify how many members of Kamel's terror cell worked at IHH or give their names, but he said one of the suspects, a man from Bosnia, appeared in another terror-related case as recently as 2005 - though there was no indication at the time that the man still had ties to IHH.
Elements within the charity supported jihadi operations in the 1990s, Bruguiere said, before adding: "I don't know whether they continued to do so" more recently.
"But it seemed clear at the time that it was thanks to a measure of political backing within the Turkish government that it (IHH) could continue to operate," despite the strong suspicions against it, Bruguiere said.
Bruguiere retired from the judiciary in 2007 when he took part in an election to become a lawmaker in the conservative party of French President Nicolas Sarkozy. He lost his bid.
Bruguiere, 67, is now the coordinator for the European Union in a terrorism finance tracking program jointly run with the United States.
In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley told reporters on Wednesday that "we know that IHH representatives have met with senior Hamas officials in Turkey, Syria, and Gaza over the past three years. That is obviously of great concern to us."
But, he said the U.S. could not "validate" that IHH has connections to al Qaida.
It also really looked like the soldiers were armed with less-than-lethals in that last video.
Thank goodness they were carrying real secondaries.
I am not defending the "activists" at all, but I can understand how many people, maybe even most, including those veiwing the videos on the news, wouldn't realize those primaries were paintball guns set up with most likely pepper spray.
VooDoo6Actual
06-03-10, 10:57
New footage w/ Knives, NVG's, Gas Masks etc...
SOP for PEACE Activists etc .... ;-/
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1197/705591784_6e34800fe7_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/cat_war_on_terror.php&usg=___I5cjx_laPmbTFsWlhuFr_AeN70=&h=994&w=1500&sz=1815&hl=en&start=18&sig2=-fdReIUs2euOy0TRrupCag&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=mE34SQyX2s-3XM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dplastic%2Bexplosive%2Bc4%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=RNAHTNzqFofU4gbJ9pR3
thopkins22
06-03-10, 11:17
New footage w/ Knives, NVG's, Gas Masks etc...
SOP for PEACE Activists etc .... ;-/
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1197/705591784_6e34800fe7_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/cat_war_on_terror.php&usg=___I5cjx_laPmbTFsWlhuFr_AeN70=&h=994&w=1500&sz=1815&hl=en&start=18&sig2=-fdReIUs2euOy0TRrupCag&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=mE34SQyX2s-3XM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dplastic%2Bexplosive%2Bc4%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=RNAHTNzqFofU4gbJ9pR3
Fantastic that they videoed themselves chopping the pipe for use as weapons.
I'm going to step outside of my lane here and say that there probably were some(hell maybe even a lot,) people on that boat who had legitimate intentions of helping the Palestinians rebuild and were there for honest to god humanitarian reasons.
Unfortunately for them, and for however many innocents are left in Gaza, they were also on a boat with a bunch of radicals. It stinks for them, but any sympathy I had has deteriorated.
So Turkish warships will escort the next flotilla. As a "good Jew", I guess I need to start getting my stuff in order to head home. I hope they will accept me as cannon fodder, at 43 and not entirely in the best of shape (not the worst either)I pray they would let me in.
If it comes down to that(we all pray that it does not,) one of my best friends serves in the IDF and from what I understand has some good contacts. If you decide to go that route, PM me and I'll email him and ask what you would need to do/who you would need to contact exemption wise.
Dragon Slayer
06-03-10, 12:26
It will never come to a confrontation between the Turkish military and the IDF at least as much as I know about the subject and only if I am completely wrong.
Turks hate Arabs and they have a whole history of wars and confrontations between them. The Turkish military has deep ties with the IDF and IMHO the Turkish military will attempt to overthrow the Turkish Government (like they have done before) before they get into a losing war with Israel which will make quick work out of it and i am not talking about conquering Turkey but the complete destruction of the Turkish fleet.
I also doubt other countries will allow hundreds of thousands of Turkish soldiers to go through their country to attack Israel and bring a calamity on their own when a terrible war destroys their own country.
The Turkish government is pushing radical Islam on the Turkish people at numbers that are greater then ever before but most Turks are far from being Radical Islamists.
The truth is coming out slowly over the attempts of the Israel haters and the MSM and the picture will start changing with a little time. You don't even see too many demonstrations in Arab countries, a few thousand here and a few thousand there is nothing but BS.
Ten thousand in Istanbul in a city of ten million is also nothing and your average turk that lives in Istanbul has no interest in this crap and they do not necessarily even like this people. Also wait until this peoples real connections with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and AQ starts surfacing it will become a different ball game.
BTW just to give a little background on myself I was born in Istanbul Turkey, moved to Israel with my parents and after living there for many years and serving in the IDF in two wars and many months in reserve duty we came to the USA in 1975 and we became American Citizens in 1982.
This is only my opinion so take it or leave it.
Fantastic that they videoed themselves chopping the pipe for use as weapons.
But they were only defending themselves! :rolleyes:
As usual, they attempt to play all sides. If you "defend" yourself, you play by big boy rules and suffer big boy consequences. That only 9 died simple shows amazing restraint by the IDF who fast roped into that cluster fu*& with paintball guns.
Personally, this seems a result of their actually acting more like the PC west, and it went south vs. they get a warning while in international waters that crossing into the territory will not be tolerated. Once they cross the territory, they get another warning (and we both know many countries wouldn't give them that...) and a few shots across their bow. If that does not have them turning their boats around, then they are converted to red mist via 20mm love from a gun ship, etc. That's how a country that gives no quarter, but does not fire on people without fair warning while in international waters acts. Fast roping onto a deck with paint ball guns into a mob, is western style PC stuff that went south on them.
I guess I'm a horrible person for thinking that way....
sections of pipe used in the construction of rocket bodies, and cement for bunkers…
B
Not sure how one determines if metal piping found on a ship is intended to make qassam rocket's. It's not as if they're aerospace tolerances, they're crude pipe bombs with a crude engine, nothing more nothing less. More than likely the piping found was just pipping.
I feel bad for the people on both sides just trying to live their lives, stuck in the middle of the bs. Shitty place to be, but I hear Beriut is lovely right now, and lots of pretty girls, anyone wanna go hit the discos? :D
Dragon Slayer
06-04-10, 09:01
Not sure how one determines if metal piping found on a ship is intended to make qassam rocket's. It's not as if they're aerospace tolerances, they're crude pipe bombs with a crude engine, nothing more nothing less. More than likely the piping found was just pipping.
I feel bad for the people on both sides just trying to live their lives, stuck in the middle of the bs. Shitty place to be, but I hear Beriut is lovely right now, and lots of pretty girls, anyone wanna go hit the discos? :D
Yes Beirut is very pretty, besides that it is run by Hezbollah so it is really nice, just find the really right time to go so it is not one when the Hezi's start a war with Israel (or with each other) and get everything there destroyed by the IAF.:rolleyes:
When it comes to pretty no body has seen anything prettier and even prettier girls then you see in Israel even if some of them carry machine guns.;)
Should have sunk the ship and machineguned the survivors in the water.
Combat_Diver
06-04-10, 10:30
Running a blockade, carrying contraband, and then assualting the boarding party you take your licks. IDF showed great restraint.
CD
Running a blockade, carrying contraband, and then assualting the boarding party you take your licks. IDF showed great restraint.
CD
That reminds me, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a ship suspected of carrying something (e.g., drugs, etc) does not come to heal when the Coastguard attempt to stop them and ignores warnings, a shot across the bow, letting then know the next one will be coming through the damn boat, is SOP for the custies no?
Obviously, not an identical situation, but I suspect the IDF may have to adopt that approach in the future.
When it comes to pretty no body has seen anything prettier and even prettier girls then you see in Israel even if some of them carry machine guns.;)
to continue the tangent
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=girls+of+the+idf&aq=f
Not sure how one determines if metal piping found on a ship is intended to make qassam rocket's. It's not as if they're aerospace tolerances, they're crude pipe bombs with a crude engine, nothing more nothing less. More than likely the piping found was just pipping.
Crude or not, Hamas uses them and I *think* they've been known to have the desired effect from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rockets-latrun-exhibition-1.jpg
VooDoo6Actual
06-04-10, 11:08
panis et circenses
LIBTARDS GAMING the system as usual
panis et circenses
LIBTARDS GAMING the system as usual
But, no lie lives forever, and this one seems to be unraveling quickly, due mostly to modern technology: the 'net and cams everywhere. And a medal coming to the last guy down the rope who said "flame on" and put a stop to the nonsense:
From the Times UK:
Israeli commando who shot six passengers in aid convoy in line for medal
(AP Photo/Israel Defence Force)
Clashes between Israeli soldiers and passengers on board the Mavi Marmara
James Hider, Jerusalem and Alexander Christie-Miller, Istanbul The latest on the fallout from the flotilla raid thetimes.co.uk
Six of the nine passengers killed in an Israeli raid on an aid convoy bound for Gaza were shot by a single Israeli commando, who is being considered for a medal of valour for saving his injured comrades as passengers attacked them with clubs, knives and even guns they had taken from downed Navy Seals.
Fresh details of the controversial raid, which has led to accusations of “piracy” and “state terrorism” being levelled against Israel, and which wrecked its strategic partnership with Turkey, emerged yesterday. There were reports that passengers who attacked the Israeli boarding party had been dragging three captured commandos into the hold of the ship when the shooting broke out.
And a British passenger who witnessed the deadly pre-dawn encounter in international waters said that some of the more peaceful activists on board had tried to protect captured Israeli soldiers being set upon by a hardcore of passengers, most of them believed to be Turks linked to an Islamic charity accused by Israel of having links to extremists.
The Israeli commando who killed six of the passengers of Mavi Marmara, the Turkish ferry owned by the IHH charity, said that he had been the last of 15 soldiers to rappel down the rope from an overhead helicopter on to the decks of the ship, which he described as “a battlefield”.
Identified for security reasons only as Staff Sergeant S, he said that contrary to initial Israeli Army reports, the shooting had started within minutes as he and his comrades were set upon by a “mob of mercenaries”.
As he landed on the ship’s top deck, he said he saw three of his superior officers who had landed ahead of him lying wounded, one with a bullet wound to the stomach, another shot in the knee and the third beaten unconscious.
Taking charge, he formed his men in a perimeter around the wounded, pulled his 9mm Glock pistol and opened fire on passengers he accused of shooting at the boarding party with guns taken off the first soldiers, who had been overwhelmed as they landed one by one.
“When I hit the deck, I was immediately attacked by people with bats, metal pipes and axes,” the sergeant recalled. “These were without a doubt terrorists. I could see the murderous rage in their eyes and that they were coming to kill us.”
He said he saw one of the passengers holding a seized pistol to another Israeli commando’s head.
His accusation that his assailants were mercenaries was based on the large amounts of cash found on a number of the detained and killed passengers, although other officials have suggested the money was destined to be given to Hamas in Gaza if the convoy succeeded in breaking the Israeli naval blockade.
New footage released by Israel, and apparently filmed by activists before the boarding had started before dawn on Monday, showed an Israeli assault craft full of helmeted commandos pull alongside the Mavi Marmara, where men waving metal pipes and a chain leant overboard to ward them off.
Others were emptying fire hoses at the Israeli boat below, while a stun grenade was dropped into the vessel, exploding among the soldiers.
Some Israeli officials have accused the Turks who attacked them of links to terrorist groups, although it was unclear why, in that case, the soldiers of Flotilla 13, the elite Navy Seals unit involved in the operation, were briefed only to expect peaceful resistance.
The question also remained as to why the passengers, if they were indeed terrorists, did not use deadlier weapons against the approaching naval launches and helicopters hovering overhead.
Alexandra Lort-Phillips, 37, an activist from Hackney, was on the Mavi Marmara when it was stormed and described seeing an Israeli soldier taken down into the stairwell below the deck where the soldiers landed.
“I went down the stairwell and there was a massive crowd of people and lots of shouting,” she said, after being deported to Istanbul.
“They had got a soldier who had boarded the ship from the roof. There was a sense of ‘My god, we’ve got an Israeli soldier’. I don’t think we really knew what we were going to do.”
“I saw a gun being taken. His gunbelt was removed and someone, I don’t know who, ran past me with the weapon and disappeared. They could have shot him but didn’t.” She said around 25 people were gathered around the soldier, who was held by his legs and stripped to his underwear as he was restrained.
“The women who were there were shouting ‘Don’t hurt him’.” Ms Lort-Phillips denied he was beaten, but said: “There were obviously some guys there who were extremely agitated by the situation. It is like you’d expect when there’s a fight between men.” As Israel desperately tried to limit the damage caused by the bloodbath on the high seas, the organisers of the aid flotilla said another boat was due to challenge the blockade and make for Gaza at the weekend.
The Rachel Corrie, an Irish-flagged ship, is named after a young American peace activist who was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in 2003 while trying to prevent the army from demolishing a Palestinian home in Gaza. Organisers said it was steaming straight for Gaza with Mairead Maguire, winner of an Irish Nobel Peace Prize, on board.
Dragon Slayer
06-04-10, 17:48
But, no lie lives forever, and this one seems to be unraveling quickly, due mostly to modern technology: the 'net and cams everywhere. And a medal coming to the last guy down the rope who said "flame on" and put a stop to the nonsense:
.
You are a very wise man my friend thanks for saying it like it is.:)
VooDoo6Actual
06-04-10, 20:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded
Well here is a full length vid "smuggled" out:
http://vimeo.com/12409330
The festivities don't start 'till min 35, so fast forward. If people want to see exactly what happened from the "peace lovers" side, here it is.
This vid is supposed to be some form of "proof" as to the evil IDF, when it shows nothing but restraint on their part.
Guy babbling about the IDF having a list with pics of who they should be focusing on is bad why? That's SOP for everyone and anyone.
Probably a bad idea to have their paint balls full of red paint from a PR perspective, but perhaps psychological warfare? You look down and see a mass of red and think you have been shot and give up the fight?
I hate to do it, but you have to give credit where it's due, even to the enemy: the organizers of this "peace" flotilla out maneuvered the Israelies here. By attacking the soldiers with "non weapons" like sticks, chains, etc, they forced the IDF into a deadly response at some point, making them - in the eyes of the already biased and ill informed world - look like the bad guys.
The people on the boats were well prepared for the confrontation and obviously had a specific plan, which worked (as far as I can tell) exactly as they planned it to.
Had they met the IDF with "weapons" they would have been toast and lost the PR war, and they knew it. This was no, grab some sticks and what's lying around and "defend" yourself, this was a well designed plan and strategy, and it worked well. Don't know if they planned for, or even cared about, the deaths on both sides (again, we have vid from the people on the boat saying they hoped "Allah Willing" they would become martyr on this trip) but from their POV, 9 lives for their 'cause' is a small price to pay no doubt.
Ever seen so many people cameras on a boat? Me neither.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded
Removed due to copyright. :eek:
Should have sunk the ship and machineguned the survivors in the water.
I agree
William B.
06-13-10, 15:25
Have you guys seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeUhwELoKWo
From what I understand this guy is a former US service member and was on the boat with the peace activists/terrorists. What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
I don't care what country he's from; if he was in that fray, he should be treated like one of them. Too bad he wasn't #11. Actually, it's probably good he wasn't, as I'm sure the POTUS would simply have used that as an excuse to cut all ties with Israel altogether.
William B.
06-14-10, 11:45
I don't understand why he would willingly put himself in that situation. I'm with you, Skyyr. If he had gone after my firearm his nationality wouldn't have mattered to me, either.
I also don't understand why an American service member would associate with those types of people. Maybe he's just another bleeding heart trying to make a statement...
5287
A faction of Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade claimed responsibility for Monday's terror attack in the Hebron Hills in which Israeli police officer Yehushua Sofer was killed, reported the Palestinian news agency Ma'an.
The attack came as a response to the raid on the Gaza aid flotilla, according to the report.
Sofer was buried Monday evening in the military section of the old Beersheba cemetery.
Sofer was rushed to Hadassah Ein Kerem Hospital in Jerusalem from the scene of the attack by Magen David Adom where he died from gunshot wounds to the chest approximately two hours after the attack.
Sofer, 39, was a police veteran having served 19 years on the Hebron police force and a resident of Beersheba.
Two other police officers were injured in the attack, as they were driving northwards on Route 60 in the West Bank, south of the of settlement of Bet Hagai, in the Hebron Hills region.
Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch, who is currently in Romania, released a statement following the attack, saying, "Today we have seen that the relative quiet is deceitful and we cannot know when it will be broken. I send my condolences to the family of F.-Sgt. Shuki Sofer, and I hope the injured will recover swiftly." Ahronovitch added that the police, IDF and Shin Bet would "do everything to quickly capture those responsible for this terrorist attack."
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=178420
GermanSynergy
06-14-10, 14:40
RIP brave Officer Sofer. :(
I'd like to see Israel take the gloves off and crush the bastards responsible for this like a cockroach. :mad:
I cannot fathom why the Left is so in love with groups like Hezbollah, Al Aqsah, etc. Sheer insanity and blind hatred of the Jewish people perhaps?
VooDoo6Actual
06-14-10, 14:56
RIP Officer SOFER.
Valhalla awaits....
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