why bushmaster bashing?

[will73]

I have been reading threads on this forum since 09 and and pretty up on the gun world. I have notice all the bad press so to speak on bushmasters since being on here and this is what i have found since owning one for the past 2 years. first off i have a bushmaster 16 in heavy barrel 1in 9 twist , cproduct 30 round mags ,all the internals are stock,for lube i run lucas oil red n tacky 2 grease. To date i have about 5000 rounds in it 1000 wolf give of take, 500 winchester-pmc-ect, the rest have been handloads. I have done numerous tests on this rifle i shot all 1000 rounds of wolf 200 at a time with only running a brush down the barrel just to see if the grease would harden up some with the carbon build up in it, other times i mixed the grease with dust, grit and grim till it was a chunky paste to make it stop running. With all these tests and the round count i have i have yet to find the gun to have a failure that was not my fault(bad handload)and only 13 to date. in short I would stake my life and my families lives on this rifle. enough said

[Belmont31R]

They are not as good as some other brands.



Im kinda confused as to what tests you were trying to do.


Also you have one gun. Its not enough to make any real determinations on either good or bad.


Off the top of my head:


BM is notorious for canted FSBs

BM puts over sized gas ports on their barrels, and over gas their guns.

They use comm rec ext's which limit stock choice.

I don't think they are doing a lot of the testing that has sorta become the industry standard for what is considered a quality gun.


You can refer to Rob_S's chart on what comes with each brand of gun. BM is pretty far down the list: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html




That doesn't mean you have a shitty gun. It just means it more prone to failure than other brands. Again doesn't mean your gun is going to break to pieces in your hands or anything. Buying other brands with more testing, and more mil-spec type features help ensure you stand a better chance of not having an issue.

[Jay Cunningham]

This thread is a good candidate for learned mentoring.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

There are perfectly functional rifles out there from every mfg. and Bushmaster is no exception. But on the whole, they produce a product for a higher price point with limited attention to features that bolster reliability, such as MPI testing, proper 5.56 chambers, carrier key staking, H-buffers, extractor o-rings, castlenut staking as well as a plethora of other features that could be construed as user preferences(but typically preferred for higher performance, like 1/7 twist, F-height FSB's, mil-spec tubes, etc)

In short, there's a few things that are usually wrong with them, and a few more things that while aren't wrong, just aren't right. Neither of these factors make the guns worth their asking price when compared to competitors or just building your own. And yes, I have my own BM guns, and I'd trust my life to them too, but I've made a lot of mods over time to get them running to a degree that I trust.

An out-of-the-box BM for the price is just getting ripped off. A BM in the safe can be made into a perfectly reliable gun, more trustworthy than an out of the box gun from other mfg's, but when making the choice for new hardware, its just best to look elsewhere and save the headaches.

[thopkins22]

Will, I don't think you actually read anyone here say that a Bushmaster was incapable of doing that...at least not in the sense that you're implying.

The reality is that on the day you bought your Bushmaster, it was possible that it would run for thousands upon thousands of rounds(and so far, it has.) But it was also possible that it would run for two or three thousand rounds and the bolt would fail locking the gun up. This is true for just about any rifle, nothing is fool proof.

However(and here's the important part,) when compared to Colt, LMT, BCM, DD, or whomever else uses superior materials and a much more thorough and selective testing protocol, you stand a much higher chance of seeing that failure, because it's possible that you have a bolt that would have otherwise been caught by the manufacturer and tossed. You just don't know.

That's the major reason I buy higher end rifles, I like the assurance that an independent entity looked at my individual barrel and bolt, and determined that it was not predisposed to failure. Higher quality barrel steel and so forth is not quite as important to me, but nice. Things like staking in all the right places are easily doable myself, but if they can't spare the extra money to pay someone to hit my bolt carrier with a hammer and a chisel, what else are the skimping on?

The price difference between mil-spec receiver extensions and commercial extensions is pretty damned small and I didn't always think that it was a big deal. I've since seen the tensile strength differences between 6064 and 7075 and it was startling. Not a big deal on things like rails up front, but on a part that can absolutely render the rifle useless I decided it was a big deal.

Anyway if you haven't read this thread, do it now. The purpose of it was to say, "It's not the end of the world that you have a Bushmaster/Whatever, and that most of the major shortcomings can be overcome for a small amount of money." https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

[Cagemonkey]

BFB sums it up quite well. His name says it all.

[will73]

i have heard all these thing before the BIG deal over the sights being off center my kimber 1911 and para 1911 and sig 226 sight have all been adjusted off center for my correct sight picture does that make them less quality than my keltec that shoots straight with fixed sights. as for the over gassing it might be me but i would prefer alittle to much than just right it gives no room for debris and buildup and debris that could obstruct the gas tube.The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv. My guns dont hard lives in that they are abussed but they are used and used as much as i can and i dont worry about cosmetic blemishes, just the life of a gun. Dont think i am getting defensive but i am very proud to be an owner of my bushy and wanted to be on the short list of people that are standing up for them. I would not get rid of mine ,but that does not mean i would only by a bushy

[opmike]

You have to keep in mind that these are man made machines. As such, you can't expect your example to be representative of every single model in circulation.

No one is saying that 100% of Bushmasters that roll off the assembly line will fall apart at 1,000 rounds.

However, they forgo certain features and attention to important details that have been proven to contribute to the reliability and longevity of the AR-15 platform.

There's also the issue of price. Bushmasters M4 clones go for around $999 here. That places them in the price bracket of BCM and a few other models that put out better quality equipment.


***EDIT***

The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv.thats just me

I've heard comments like this before...

Are you saying that a Bushmaster is the Hummer of AR's and the more expensive models are mere luxury items?

And it seems like you've completely ignored what some of the other people have been saying. I'm done with this thread. I don't think you're here to actually learn anything. You're here to argue in favor of a brand that you happen to like.

[Cagemonkey]

i have heard all these thing before the BIG deal over the sights being off center my kimber 1911 and para 1911 and sig 226 sight have all been adjusted off center for my correct sight picture does that make them less quality than my keltec that shoots straight with fixed sights. as for the over gassing it might be me but i would prefer alittle to much than just right it gives no room for debris and buildup and debris that could obstruct the gas tube.The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv.thats just meIf you consider the facts irrelevant and are happy with you Bushmaster, then theirs no need for further argument. Nothing further said is likely to change your views. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[thopkins22]

i have heard all these thing before the BIG deal over the sights being off center my kimber 1911 and para 1911 and sig 226 sight have all been adjusted off center for my correct sight picture does that make them less quality than my keltec that shoots straight with fixed sights. as for the over gassing it might be me but i would prefer alittle to much than just right it gives no room for debris and buildup and debris that could obstruct the gas tube.The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv. My guns dont hard lives in that they are abussed but they are used and used as much as i can and i dont worry about cosmetic blemishes, just the life of a gun. Dont think i am getting defensive but i am very proud to be an owner of my bushy and wanted to be on the short list of people that are standing up for them. I would not get rid of mine ,but that does not mean i would only by a bushy

Nothing is going to obstructing your gas tube that will be solved by a larger gas port. The pressure inside of it is still going to be huge and push anything that's there out.

It's great that you're proud of your rifle. I'm proud of my dog...I love my dog more than you know. But I'm able to recognize that he's not a world class dog. Fortunately my life will probably never rest in his paws.;)

[Aray]

I have been reading threads on this forum since 09 and and pretty up on the gun world. I have notice all the bad press so to speak on bushmasters since being on here and this is what i have found since owning one for the past 2 years. first off i have a bushmaster 16 in heavy barrel 1in 9 twist , cproduct 30 round mags ,all the internals are stock,for lube i run lucas oil red n tacky 2 grease. To date i have about 5000 rounds in it 1000 wolf give of take, 500 winchester-pmc-ect, the rest have been handloads. I have done numerous tests on this rifle i shot all 1000 rounds of wolf 200 at a time with only running a brush down the barrel just to see if the grease would harden up some with the carbon build up in it, other times i mixed the grease with dust, grit and grim till it was a chunky paste to make it stop running. With all these tests and the round count i have i have yet to find the gun to have a failure that was not my fault(bad handload)and only 13 to date. in short I would stake my life and my families lives on this rifle. enough said

Is your question:

"Why don't most members consider Bushmaster ARs a top tier rifle?"

Or is it:

"I love my Bushmaster, wanna argue about it?"

If it is the former, there are many differences that can mostly be found on The Chart, as previously mentioned.

If you have specific questions about the individual items on the chart, post up and get clarification.

If it is the latter, you might not be in the right place to have this discussion.

Either way, do a search and you will find many threads about Bushmasters.

[arizonaranchman]

After that many rounds it sounds like you got one of the BM's that's good to go. Shoot the hell out of it and enjoy it. If it ever needs to be serviced then fix it. These guns are generally easy to get back into action with a new, FP, bolt or BCG, etc.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Bottom line is they make a rifle that shoots fine for most guys who just want an AR to go to the range a few times a year and bang out some rounds.
But for the guys in the know when it comes to spending there hard earned cash on something they might stake there life on or shoot so often that to most people it seams like a stupid waste of money. Busmaster just cant hold up its end of the deal in most cases.

Im sure there are rifles out there that have gone toe to toe with LMT or DD etc.

Just my 2 cents

[BushmasterFanBoy]

i have heard all these thing before the BIG deal over the sights being off center my kimber 1911 and para 1911 and sig 226 sight have all been adjusted off center for my correct sight picture does that make them less quality than my keltec that shoots straight with fixed sights. as for the over gassing it might be me but i would prefer alittle to much than just right it gives no room for debris and buildup and debris that could obstruct the gas tube.The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv. My guns dont hard lives in that they are abussed but they are used and used as much as i can and i dont worry about cosmetic blemishes, just the life of a gun. Dont think i am getting defensive but i am very proud to be an owner of my bushy and wanted to be on the short list of people that are standing up for them. I would not get rid of mine ,but that does not mean i would only by a bushy

There's no reason to go discounting your gun, but the fact is there are better choices out there for the same price. At this point, your gun is yours, and like many shooters, myself included, you've probably invested some time, and a little bit of yourself in your purchase. It's easy to think "well, mine's just fine, what's the big deal?" but the better attitude to have is "Ok, so my rifle is lacking in areas X, Y, Z, what can I do to fix 'er up and get it up to par?"

One thing I will say about Bushmasters (or really any firearm that comes out the box less than perfect) is that if the user is serious about beefing them up, they can learn a lot about the platform as a whole. In the end, after my own learning experience, I found out firsthand why its best to pony up for some things from the get-go.

At the end of the day, you can either beef it up now, or keep shooting until something breaks (hopefully not at an inopportune moment) and replace it then. Either way is fine, but if it were my gun, I'd buy the parts now, especially if it was a defensive weapon.

[Belmont31R]

i have heard all these thing before the BIG deal over the sights being off center my kimber 1911 and para 1911 and sig 226 sight have all been adjusted off center for my correct sight picture does that make them less quality than my keltec that shoots straight with fixed sights. as for the over gassing it might be me but i would prefer alittle to much than just right it gives no room for debris and buildup and debris that could obstruct the gas tube.The fit and finish issues, I have no rattle in my reciever i shot in the rain its been in the mud its hit rocks, posts and my car and all the marks wipe right off, but then again i want a hummer of an m4 i dont need a mercadies suv. My guns dont hard lives in that they are abussed but they are used and used as much as i can and i dont worry about cosmetic blemishes, just the life of a gun. Dont think i am getting defensive but i am very proud to be an owner of my bushy and wanted to be on the short list of people that are standing up for them. I would not get rid of mine ,but that does not mean i would only by a bushy



Sounds like you already have your mind made up, and are not willing to listen to any facts.


Have fun with your rifle.

[SHIVAN]

... but i am very proud to be an owner of my bushy...

Then shoot it, wring it out, and see what fails, read the threads on this site for which parts to replace them with when they fail, and motor on.

Worrying why someone else doesn't like Bushmaster doesn't really do a current Bushmaster owner any good, honestly.

However, the folks who are replying to this thread are giving you an idea of why Bushmaster does not have a top reputation among AR makers. For a nominal amount more, you can buy a new weapon that will meet or exceed the spec for a military rifle; which many consider the STARTING POINT of a good fighting gun.

[Ed L.]

This thread is a good candidate for learned mentoring.

Okay, you got me.

I honestly do feel your pain.

[Buck]

Will73,

You have received a lot of knowledge here today and I believe that your questions were answered in detail... What you do with that knowledge is up to you...

B