Murders with Registered Machine Guns?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I thought the only person killed by a legally owned machine gun was someone in Ohio (Dayton?) that was actually killed by a police officer who owned the weapon.

I was seeing what the VPC was up to lately and I saw that they are trying to portray CCW holders as killers waiting to snap, but one of their stories went like this:

Date: May 19, 2007
Total Killed: 4 (including shooter)
Total Wounded: 3
Law Enforcement Officers Killed: 1
Circumstances: On May 19, 2007, Jason Kenneth Hamilton, a member of the white
supremacist group Aryan Nation, shot and killed his wife, a police officer, and a church
sexton, and wounded three others before turning the gun on himself in a shooting spree in
Moscow, Idaho. Hamilton had a concealed handgun permit “despite a [previous]
domestic violence conviction that should have barred him from owning guns.” He also
possessed a federally registered fully-automatic AK-47 machine gun, one of the guns he
used in the shooting spree.
Source: “Shooter Linked to Aryans; Killer also had federal license for automatic weapons,” Spokesman
Review, May 23, 2007; “Authorities investigate Hamilton’s gun purchase; Mass killer apparently obtained
the automatic weapon late in 2004 or early in 2005; Ambush aftermath,” Lewiston Morning Tribune, May
24, 2007.

Not really trusting VPC, was this guy really the owner of a FA AK-47, or was it a SA AK-47 that he mod'd?

Their statistic about 157 people killed by CCW holders is less impressive when it seems they include cases where the police didn't file charges and only seem to call it a good shoot if there is a court case and the CCW shooter is exonerated.

[jklaughrey]

Since this is near my neck of the woods as far as information I have received it was a registered FA weapon and not modified. I will look into it further if you wish.

[ChicagoTex]

If you read the language carefully, it's entirely possible the AK was stolen (therefore "in his posession"), and registered to another law-abiding individual (therefore "federally registered").

It doesn't say that the AK was federally registered TO HIM.

[Iraqgunz]

I would love to know the details since there are very few registered/ transferable AK47's on the market and they are in the 15K or so price range.

[jklaughrey]

Hamilton was armed during the rampage with an AK-47 and a Springfield M1-A, both semiautomatic rifles, Duke said. The Springfield was purchased from a Moscow store. The AK-47 is still being traced, he said.

This is an excerpt from the free press. Either way he fired off 200+ rounds, SA or FA he was just spraying rounds.

[SteyrAUG]

I would love to know the details since there are very few registered/ transferable AK47's on the market and they are in the 15K or so price range.

Yep, and not too many skinhead types have that kind of cash AND a clean record needed for NFA ownership.

I'm definitely calling bullshit.

[kry226]

I am studying the impact of concealed carry permits on violent crime in Texas for my capstone project for my graduate degree. You have to watch out for the VPC. Obviously they have an agenda, but they are infamous for taking published statistics and twisting them to suit their purposes, then publishing it as a "study," with no peer review in any shape or fashion.

Particularly with CCW stats, the VPC includes non-violent, non-gun related crimes in their "study" in an effort to demonize permit holders. This group is as unethical as they come. :rolleyes:

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Found the name of a state cop that was quoted in the press that all the guns were owned legally. Googled him and found his email, so I sent him a quick email. I'll see what I get back.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Way to go Idaho! Got an answer back from Lt. Spencer.


Good Morning. The firearms used by Jason Hamilton were not “machine guns”. Initially several people, including officers, who heard the shots believed that they heard fully automatic fire. Early on in the investigation, following a very cursory examination, the AK47 was believed to be capable of fully automatic fire, however a later forensic inspection proved that neither the M1A or the AK47 were capable of fully automatic fire, and they hadn’t malfunctioned causing fully automatic fire either. Both firearms were semi – automatic only, which allowed them to be sold, purchased, etc., with fewer restrictions than with a Class 3 “machine gun”. Both firearms had been properly sold by firearms dealers, and had been purchased by Jason Hamilton legally. Therefore, the reporting of the use of a “machine gun”, died off because there wasn’t one used. Both guns had been properly registered with ATF when they were initially manufactured/imported, then they were legally sold after that either through private party or licensed firearms dealers. At the time of their purchase, Jason Hamilton wasn’t precluded from purchasing either firearm.



Lt. Charlie Spencer


Off to deliver the bad news to the VPC.

[jklaughrey]

Good job colddeadhands, the state troopers around here are by and large pretty decent folk. Actually used to date one years ago when I was just out of the service. Now she is an attorney. But back on topic if those of you who don't know while Idaho is a very conservative state, the City of Moscow is the epitome of being a liberal hotbed. What I find ironic is that many I have run into hate guns and police, until they need one. But that is true everywhere I suppose, just more comical when they call you to report someone stole their bong and stash during a party. Good times. Likewise thought the whole community here is supportive of those who serve in harms way.

[DocGKR]

FromMyColdDeadHand--Well done! Please let us know how VPC responds when you point out their lies.

[SteyrAUG]

Way to go Idaho! Got an answer back from Lt. Spencer.



Off to deliver the bad news to the VPC.

Excellent. Only problem is it won't make a damn bit of difference to the VPC. They won't change a thing.

[dhrith]

I'll damn well bet there was never a retraction. Never will be, doesn't fit their agenda.

[Macx]

VPC (predicted reply) ---> Retract what? Macx could be Lt. Spencer, or rather the LT could be Macx's psuedonym. Can't trust anything you get from an e-mail or the internet, unless it says guns are bad. . . in which case it is fact, because we know guns are bad. :rolleyes: