PDA

View Full Version : Weighted Running, Distance, and Sauna Suit?



TheSmiter1
06-01-10, 08:39
I've been running for a few months using an empty flak jacket (no SAPI plates), a weight vest, and a pack. The pack is mostly just to stop the flak and vest from bouncing and doesn't contain any weight. The empty flak weighs 10 lbs and the vest weights 20 lbs. I usually run 3 miles, with numerous sprints throughout, with each sprint being followed by push ups, mountain climbers, and side straddle hops. I do this four times a week.

Today, after reading that running with weight may be bad for your joints and back in the long-term, I tried running without all the above. I ran 5 miles, still with sprints and the other stuff. I was able to run considerably harder than with the weight.

I noticed that after today, my knees hurt more than they do after a run with all the weighted stuff. My back, however, feels just dandy compared to during and after a weight run. So my question is: Is it better for me to run 3 miles with the weight, or 5 miles without?

Oh, and would a Sauna Suit aid in increasing cardiovascular performance? I don't give a damn about weight loss, I'm just talking better performance out of my heart and veins. The weighted stuff also really helped me sweat a lot, so I was thinking the Sauna Suit would at least keep me sweating as much as I did with the weight.

Thanks.

500grains
06-01-10, 09:02
I noticed that after today, my knees hurt more than they do after a run with all the weighted stuff. My back, however, feels just dandy compared to during and after a weight run. So my question is: Is it better for me to run 3 miles with the weight, or 5 miles without?


Sorry to bear bad news, but running with the weights will blast the hell out of your ankles, knees and back.

However, so will your running style. If you are really pounding yourself, landing hard, running down hill, etc., then the 5 mi. run without weights will eventually destroy you as well.

As a repeatedly injured runner let me say,

1. Run without weights.

2. If you have trouble sweating on a 3 or 5 mi. run, great! That means you are in pretty good shape.

3. If you answered YES to no. 2, consider replacing your run with rowing on a good machine or a good 1 hr elliptical workout on some days.

4. Never ever ever run down hill. Walk down hills, because you get little workout benefit but lots of trauma from running downhill.

5. Try to stay on the ball of your foot as much as possible because this uses your calf as a shock absorber, thus minimizing joint trauma. The old style heel to toe (land on heel, roll forward to toe and power off) transmitted shock from your ankles all the way up to your top cervical vertebrae. Experiment with this by running on some flat grass like a football field or public park. First run with your running shoes. Then run with your bare feet. You will find that running with bare feet forces you to run on the balls of your feet. That is what human beings did for hundreds of thousands / millions of years and it is what the human body was intended to do. The Stanford U. track team performed some experimentation and they found that injuries decreased if they trained hard in bare feet on grass surfaces, and that super fancy running shoes did not decrease the incidence of injury.

6. Try to find long hills to train on going up hill. That will make you sweat.

7. If you want to carry weight, reserve it for 1x or 2x a week, and go with a fast hike not a run, on a trail not on pavement, to reduce trauma. Training all the time with a heavy load will put unnecessary wear on the cartilige of your joints.

TheSmiter1
06-01-10, 09:30
Thanks for the reply. Running downhill, or uphill, is not a problem in my area. I live in the Valley, valley being the key word. If I had Camp Pendleton in my backyard, I would be the happiest guy alive. I would love to try that 25 mile hump that the grunts used to do before deployment. I know from experience that hills and mountains with weight will make you want to die. Great PT.

I'm not on active duty, but I thought that running with the rough equivalent of a combat load would be good for me. The weight really didn't ever bother me, except for my back, and not too badly. I need to get to a 300 pft by the time I go to OCS, and I just can't see that happening by running at a steady rate. I need to sprint during the runs.

I should be able to drive to South Mountain or some other mountain once a week for a good hike, but other than that, I can't afford to drive all the way out there to exercise every day.

As for sweating, I sweat alright if I run utilizing the run/sprint routine, but not if I keep a steady pace. By the end of the 5 miles, my forehead will be dry and salty. And the flak jacket acts like a sauna suit, so I thought a trash bag or something would be a good weightless replacement.

I've got to figure out a new routine, I guess.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know of any strenuous 15-20 mile mountain trails in the Phoenix/East Valley area? Is there a good one at Superstition? Thanks.

500grains
06-01-10, 10:34
I would recommend thinking of running with a pack as the final exam, but little aerobic and strength building activities of many types being the daily homework assignments which over time prepare you for success on the final exam.

120mm
06-01-10, 11:50
Up your intensity - yes
Run with weights - no
Run in sauna suit or plastic bag? - not just no but hell no

I work out to suffer, too, but I'd never intentionally try to lock my body heat in.

If you really want to stomp the shit out of your self, run about 45 minutes and then, without rest, jump into doing weight circuits.

Or run a mile, do a circuit, then run another mile, do a circuit, repeat until you wanna die.

Fyrhazzrd
06-01-10, 12:40
OCS really requires you to max out the PT test.. Why don't I believe that? I have seen some of the officers right out of OCS and I can assure you they couldn't max out the PT Test.

Anyway, running five miles will not help your PT test scores, since well if you are talking about Army which I'm assuming that you are; the runs are only 2 miles(If they haven't changed since I was in). You should be training for the distance that you will be tested at. You will run 5 miles at a slower pace than you will run 2 miles at. That will do you no good when you go take the test.

Fyrhazzrd
06-01-10, 13:44
One more note on the subject. You should always condition yourself for the distance that you will be testing at.

One thing I could never understand about any of the units I was in, while in the Army was:

We had a high degree of 2 mile run failures. Every morning for PT we would run 5 to 6 miles at a snails pace (ranger shuffle). I don't understand that mentality. If we need to pass a two mile run for PT, then why in God's name do we not train in running 2 miles at a decent pace? Running 6 miles at a walks pace does nobody any good.

Maybe once you become an officer you can correct this wrong in the units that you are leading.

Zhurdan
06-01-10, 14:30
Sweating isn't a function of cardiovascular load, but of your body attempting to cool itself. It's also depleting your body of the thing it needs most during exertion...water.

I used to drop weight for wrestling in high school, years ago, with the aide of a plastic suit, until we realized that your body was about 25% or more less effective due to your muscles being depleted of the much needed hydration. This was years ago, but a few of us decided to test it out via weight lifting prior to an arduous sweat fest then a week later when properly hydrated. It hovered around 75% of maximum when dehydrated(25% loss). Oh, and we were about twice as sore (lactic acid buildup??)

Keep in mind, I'm no nutritionist, but these observations changed my mind about using plastic suits to drop weight. Besides, it was all just water anyways.

TheSmiter1
06-01-10, 15:24
It's Marine OCS and the humps (at least in the fleet Marine Infantry) are no joke. We fight for our desired MOS, and Infantry or Aviation are both heavily dependent on physical fitness: Infantry because it is more physical than any other MOS, and Aviation because the better Marine you are, the more likely you are to get your desired aircraft.

I don't just run slowly for 5 miles, I run with sprints alternated in for the first 3 miles, when I run 5, and the first 2, when I run 3. So it is helping with the 3 mile PFT run. I make sure my lungs want to explode.

Maybe this idea would work better: run on a track (with the rubbery stuff) and do bleachers after every other lap, sprint to the pull up bars, do pull ups, push ups, mountain climbers, and side straddle hops, and then run once around the track. There's a high school near me that I could do this. I'm sure the rubber would soften the impact on my knees. Would it be OK to use weight for this, to make the bleachers harder?

Thanks for the replies thus far, especially 500 grain and 120mm. Consequentially, those are both rather large munitions. LoL.

MeanRider
06-01-10, 23:47
Sauna suits in my opinion are death traps, and for running may be tough for you in AZ but find a hill and sprint up. Plyometrics are great for building up as well, I knocked a minute off my PFT with out running, it is cold up North during the winter months.

500grains
06-02-10, 00:38
I=
Maybe this idea would work better: run on a track (with the rubbery stuff) and do bleachers after every other lap, sprint to the pull up bars, do pull ups, push ups, mountain climbers, and side straddle hops, and then run once around the track. There's a high school near me that I could do this. I'm sure the rubber would soften the impact on my knees. Would it be OK to use weight for this, to make the bleachers harder?
.

I have done lots and lots of bleacher runs, and eventually high rise runs. Moderate weight will be ok on the bleachers, in moderation (1x / wk with the wt), but only if you stay on the balls of your feet all the time so that your calves absorb the shock rather than your joints.

If you are on the east side of Phoenix, are you near that cowboy town / old gold mine? There is a nice looking hill to the southeast of that, but I have no idea what the trail system is like. A guy could show up there with an empty pack, put 40 pounds of rocks in it, do a fast hike to the top, dump the rocks, and walk back down at a reasonable pace (to avoid injury).

NCPatrolAR
06-02-10, 15:56
I would recommend finding a good running coach and having him or her set up a good plan for you. Some of the stuff you are talking about is going to destroy your body in the long run.

NCSt8man1999
06-02-10, 16:53
Running the longer distances than your "test" distance is not bad for your time. But it is dependant upon how you run that distance. It is good to incorporate short runs and long runs along with interval runs. Also mix in recovery runs. You cannot run full steam every time and not experience injuries at some point.

A suggestion if you want to increase your 2mile run, is run 5 miles, but run a warm-up mile, then a mile at your target pace, another mile slower, then the fourth at target pace, then a slower mile for a cool down. This gets you running the desired pace, plus extra cardio and conditioning. As you run more, increase the amount of time you run at the target pace, over several weeks, until you are running the 5 miles at your target pace.

Then, guess what, when you run the 2mile, it will be even faster.

Simple interval training. But don't do it every day.

120mm
06-02-10, 23:34
Bleacher runs are awfully risky. Especially with weights. Coming down, you run the risk of blowing out a knee and screwing up your chances.

Go with intervals and circuit training. Flat ground if you have to.

Frankly, I kind of like treadmills set on a hill profile if you can't find good hills to run.

chuckman
06-03-10, 06:30
Bleacher runs are awfully risky. Especially with weights. Coming down, you run the risk of blowing out a knee and screwing up your chances.

Go with intervals and circuit training. Flat ground if you have to.

Frankly, I kind of like treadmills set on a hill profile if you can't find good hills to run.

This is good gouge. You will not be running with deuce gear (or whatever it's called these days). Your running will be in PT gear and go-fasters (running shoes). The humps, however, are no joke. They are with all gear, and they are not slow. You should walk FAST with your gear to get acclimated, but not run.

Running with a ton of gear for any distance is just going to set you up for failure. Sauna suits is just going to set you up for hyperthermia and death.

You want to get ready for OCS? Run far, run fast, and pull ups, pull ups, pull ups.