View Full Version : New PDW on the market...
http://www.adamsarms.net/details.asp?sku=010124111001
Fluted 1/7 twist 5.56 NATO chamber/chrome lined
Adams Piston system
Daniel Defense rail
Melonite coated one piece carrier
Retails for $749, but can be found for a little less.
Anyone used one of these yet? I hear "rumor" that they are using Sabre barrels. I was looking at the PWS Diablo til now.
Got my hands on one in a shop, and DAMN it's light compared to my 11.5"!!!
CarlosDJackal
06-03-10, 16:33
Now this is interesting. At that price I'd be interested in trying it myself. Any idea who sells these for less?
Littlelebowski
06-03-10, 16:40
Pic....
http://www.adamsarms.net/products/5.56%20PDW%20UPPER.jpg
Looks nice. Thanks for the link Zeus. The price is not as high as I thought it would be.
Magic_Salad0892
06-03-10, 17:35
If I didn't want a PSD I'd really want this. -drool-
Well, my local Black Rifle Dealer (GDS here in Austin) sells them, but if you are ordering anyway, you probably could find a site sponsor that is or will carry them.
I was looking at $1200 for the PWS Diablo, and I REALLY like the Adams Arms piston kits already (friend's, not mine)... for the money, this just cinches it!
Got my local Guru putting it through some paces this weekend. I'll relay his findings. However, he already likes the Adams retro kits, so I can't see anything other than this being a "pistol" kit a factor.
If I didn't want a PSD I'd really want this. -drool-
I was looking at a couple different makes 'til I walked into the shop and was asked to "look at this". Bastards! They have me spending money I don't need to again... hate/love this disease!
Not so great video of the unit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXhUiK-E3To
Half way through this video you can see the venting really well on carbine length systems... and GREAT footage of the PDW in action at the end... no Operator critique from me on this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXhUiK-E3To
Do you need an NFA tax stamp to get one?
CarlosDJackal
06-03-10, 21:23
Do you need an NFA tax stamp to get one?
Not if you plan on using it as a pistol. If you plan on using it as a rifle, then the lower must already be registered and taxed as an SBR before you take possession of this.
i am very interested in one at this price.
NICE!
I have no stock in these guys. I was already looking at the PWS Diablo for my own reasons, and have seen Adams latest kits running very well on the shop carbines. Just thought others might find this helpful, albeit not as tickled pink as I :p
However, I AM holding out my full opinion 'til it gets put through the ringer this weekend.
CarlosDJackal
06-04-10, 14:29
I have no stock in these guys. I was already looking at the PWS Diablo for my own reasons, and have seen Adams latest kits running very well on the shop carbines. Just thought others might find this helpful, albeit not as tickled pink as I :p
However, I AM holding out my full opinion 'til it gets put through the ringer this weekend.
I'm in the same boat. Please let us know how it goes.
The guy running the kit will pull no punches... I'm eagerly awaiting too. He's already shot the piss out of the recent Adams kits and likes them. The proof will be in the pudding with this 7.5" though.
I'm sold on everything but the caliber.
Show me this in 6.8 and I'd be in for 2.
Chris
Yes, I originally wanted 7.62x39... I need to get with them and see what else is coming.
So, I've always operated under the belief that the ballistics (not to mention flash and noise) of 5.5.6 in a barrel that short relegated it to more of a range toy, and that there were much better choices as far as a compact PDW. Am I wrong?
So, I've always operated under the belief that the ballistics (not to mention flash and noise) of 5.5.6 in a barrel that short relegated it to more of a range toy, and that there were much better choices as far as a compact PDW. Am I wrong?
Hence the two comments directly above yours.
Chris
Cliff notes: At self defense/common LE ranges of engagement, the 5.56 PDWs will have the velocity needed to do the job.
The 11.5" barrels generally hold more than enough terminal velocity for work inside 100m. More than enough for us LE folks as a rule (first contact ranges). The 7.5" are PDWs. Were talking about up close and personal. Statistics show that most all LE engagements are within a few yards. Literally knife/pistol range. Now at the distances I'm going to employ a PDW, I'd carve a nut out with a wooded spoon to have 30 rounds of 75 gr 5.56 over the 15 rounds of 180 gr .40 S&W in my duty pistol.
With all that said, I'm still wanting a 7.62x39 too...
I'd carve a nut out with a wooded spoon to have 30 rounds of 75 gr 5.56 over the 15 rounds of 180 gr .40 S&W in my duty pistol.
With all that said, I'm still wanting a 7.62x39 too...
I'd take 25 of 115 gr. out of spec II chamber.
Chris
I'd take 25 of 115 gr. out of spec II chamber.
Chris
As much as I like the 6.8 round, it's just not a feasible round for me yet due to it's limited availability. 7.62x39 can be found in half the stop n robs in Texas. Mucho ammo availability! When 6.8 can be found under every rock, I will gladly make the switch! However, I digress... this thread is not about that subject, and I believe Adams is working on both calibers now anyway. So we'll both be happy.
I've witnessed 5.56 at close range. It's wicked depending on ammo choice and even at range, with enough velocity, it makes a bigger mess than 7.62. So in a PDW, I'm not really worried about the performance of the little round up close and personal.
With all that said, I'm still wanting a 7.62x39 too...
Me too... I wish that someone would make 20 round 7.62x39 AR mags. They would fit in M4 mag pouches and be more reliable. I would be on a 7.62x39 SBR or PDW like a hobo on a ham sandwich if they did.
Jay
As much as I like the 6.8 round, it's just not a feasible round for me yet due to it's limited availability. .
How is 6.8 limited? I have never had an issue buying as much as I need from SSA... Another gun shop bunch of BS, they don't stock it because they don't sell rifles in 6.8.
Expensive? Yes. Available? Yes, from multiple sources.
Click here and tell me how "limited" it is...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=6.8+spc+ammo&revid=1441720200&sa=X&ei=RXsKTNe2FMH78AbavriNBw&ved=0CGYQ1QIoBQ
Me too... I wish that someone would make 20 round 7.62x39 AR mags. They would fit in M4 mag pouches and be more reliable. I would be on a 7.62x39 SBR or PDW like a hobo on a ham sandwich if they did.
Jay
Why not simply buy or build a Krink? I have yet to find a reliable 7.62x39 rifle built on the AR platform. I owned a Colt and it NEVER ran reliably. Not sure that they can make a mag that will run reliably in the platform. Look how long its taken for reliable .308 mags...
Why not simply buy or build a Krink? I have yet to find a reliable 7.62x39 rifle built on the AR platform. I owned a Colt and it NEVER ran reliably. Not sure that they can make a mag that will run reliably in the platform. Look how long its taken for reliable .308 mags...
I have thought about that... Several times.
Jay
Holy drifting off topic Batman!!! If I can't walk in ANY store/house/back of a pickup truck and grab some ammo, it is USLESS to ME. However, that's my own personal opinion about 6.8 ammo as it applies to ME at this time... maybe not someone else. My little Ranch is located close to Laredo, TX (do you have a clue what's going on down here?) but truly near nowhere. I can hump it over to a neighbors place and come up with 5.56 or 7.62x39, but no 6.8. Therefore, for ME it is a truth that may not apply to others. We all have our OWN mission specific needs based on our OWN mission specific circumstances.
Now, back to the thread topic called "New PDW on the market..." and not how great 6.8 is. I truly feel it is a GREAT round and hope someday it's as readily available as the bluebonnets in my fields (when there is rain).
Why not simply buy or build a Krink? I have yet to find a reliable 7.62x39 rifle built on the AR platform. I owned a Colt and it NEVER ran reliably. Not sure that they can make a mag that will run reliably in the platform. Look how long its taken for reliable .308 mags...
Trust me, that's a huge consideration. However, my local shop has their guns running like a sewing machines. Go bang when they are supposed to, and are more accurate than 7.62x39 is "supposed" to be. The latest mags seem to either run really well right out of the shoot or not. So culling mags is also a factor.
Being an Instructor for a 1500+ person outfit/LONG time martial arts practitioner, the the resounding reason to try and stick with the AR platform should be obvious... muscle memory/training. But I digress, as we could talk about all kinds of submachine guns one could use over an AR based "rifle".
Hope to hear how the shoot went tonight... I'll probably not have a "report" til tomorrow as I'm out of pocket starting here shortly til the wee hours of the mourning.
foxjordan22
06-05-10, 17:19
cool upper. let us know how it runs. im not a huge fan of the tiny rail as i run thumb over grip with my front grip, and a flash light far forward. but it seems like a good value for a PDW.
come-on you know you want a diablo 7.62x39. 124 grain 7.62 going 2,000fps is alot better than 5.56 at 55 grain going 2,100fps.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/124/l_e54b0070a3294c98bdf2c6e5ce452ca4.jpg
this thing eats Winchester, fiocchi, American eagle, brown bear, wolf, and so on.
[IMG]http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02
Nice... Very nice.
Jay
cool upper. let us know how it runs. im not a huge fan of the tiny rail as i run thumb over grip with my front grip, and a flash light far forward. but it seems like a good value for a PDW.
come-on you know you want a diablo 7.62x39. 124 grain 7.62 going 2,000fps is alot better than 5.56 at 55 grain going 2,100fps.
this thing eats Winchester, fiocchi, American eagle, brown bear, wolf, and so on.
Damn fine... I'm hoping Adams will crank out a their version... as much as I want a 7.62x39 Diablo, $700 vs. $1200 is a lot of coin! No denying the reported reliability of the Diablo with good mags though!
I never had a lot of interest in an AR pistol before, but one of those in 6.8 as a pistol would be awesome!
Sweet Diablo Fox!
Big Tag on this one.
AA does have a 5.45x39 upper offering - Wonder if they would do this in 5.45? Definately cheapest ammo out there and like 7.62x39, terminal ballistics not based on velocity!
foxjordan22
06-06-10, 15:58
I never had a lot of interest in an AR pistol before, but one of those in 6.8 as a pistol would be awesome!
6.8 is great if you have the coin to feed it.
For the love of christ, will someone else start a 6.8 thread somewhere? I've not been in contact with the guy doing the testing today. He was doing this back close to my place. Maybe even closer to Laredo than my property.
Ok, sorry for the late update. I talked to my guy and he says he has a "new favorite". That means a lot from someone who owns some of the best on the "chart", and seems to buy something new about every week to "see how it runs".
For accuracy testing he mounted up his CompM3 with 2 MOA dot (this IS a PDW). The shooting was done at 50 yds at a 2" bull. All hits were in the bull all day long. No flyers. He's happy with the accuracy. 55gr Privy was the ammo used as it has been very consistent for him for the dollar.
He ended the day with 100 rds with the unit mounted on a M16 lower. I know, low rd count for that test, but ate those up in a few seconds without a hiccup. I failed to get his total round count for the day. The only complaint was that it needs a Daniel Defense FSPM type rail for more purchase under the gas block. I believe that is now being approached.
I'll post back here as time goes on. I'm sure there will be "hog killing" stories to come as he's in a target rich environment weekly. I asked him about his thoughts on the affective range of this unit, and his reply was that the "kitty Kat" he used a while back would consistently frag XM193 on 250+lb hogs at about the range he was sighting in at. What was about baseball size exit wounds was what was described.
So take this with a grain of salt. However, this guy is employed in such a manner that he gets to run his guns EVERY weekend. The man has a good idea of what works.
Not if you plan on using it as a pistol. If you plan on using it as a rifle, then the lower must already be registered and taxed as an SBR before you take possession of this.
Can you do this in any state? I was told that my state does not allow them, even with a tax stamp.:confused:
Can you do this in any state? I was told that my state does not allow them, even with a tax stamp.:confused:
States may be more restrictive than the Federal Gov't
Damn fine... I'm hoping Adams will crank out a their version... as much as I want a 7.62x39 Diablo, $700 vs. $1200 is a lot of coin! No denying the reported reliability of the Diablo with good mags though!
Where did you see the diablo for $1200?
Was offered by someone in the business. Guess layman's price is $1400?
[QUOTE=foxjordan22;674667]
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/124/l_e54b0070a3294c98bdf2c6e5ce452ca4.jpg
QUOTE]
sweet
Zues,
How did he like the standard FH? Would he recommend something like the CQB Comp or is it GTG as is? Are there no other options for a longer rail that can be bought to replace the 4" DD rail?
Z-e-u-s! Sorry, pet peeve of mine...
Knowing him, it will have a can on it before too long if not already. I don't know what he'll do, but he does like "pigs" as far as muzzle devices where cans will not be used.
I don't know of a rail that will fit a "pistol" length system off the top of my head that would be recessed for the Adams gas block. The beauty of their gas blocks on the longer systems is that it is the same height as the rail on the upper receiver. So the carbine fits real nice with the Daniel Defense FSPM (continuous rail rear to front).
I will give you that having a bigger round appeals to me too, especially for a system like any PDW gun, but the thing that would keep me from getting a "AR" design in a 7.62 PDW...is the propriotary magazines that now, I have to get specific magazines, that are not cheap, to go with this gun and only this gun.
Like someone else said, at the range that these guns are designed to be used...5.56 can and will do the job, plus in a SHTF situation, you have "interchangeability".
Velcro
cool upper. let us know how it run. im not a huge fan of the tiny rail as i run thumb over grip with my front grip, and a flash light far forward. but it seems like a good value for a PDW.
come-on you know you want a diablo 7.62x39. 124 grain 7.62 going 2,000fps is alot better than 5.56 at 55 grain going 2,100fps.
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/124/l_e54b0070a3294c98bdf2c6e5ce452ca4.jpg
this thing eats Winchester, fiocchi, American eagle, brown bear, wolf, and so on.
Sorry Zeus LOL.
Looks like AA sells an extended rail that fits flush with the gas block and extends on the bottom and sides. Made by Sampson. I'm going to order the PDW upper and see how I like the short DD rail at first.
I will give you that having a bigger round appeals to me too, especially for a system like any PDW gun, but the thing that would keep me from getting a "AR" design in a 7.62 PDW...is the propriotary magazines that now, I have to get specific magazines, that are not cheap, to go with this gun and only this gun.
Like someone else said, at the range that these guns are designed to be used...5.56 can and will do the job, plus in a SHTF situation, you have "interchangeability".
Velcro
Very good point... I keep going back and forth, but very good point.
Sorry Zeus LOL.
Looks like AA sells an extended rail that fits flush with the gas block and extends on the bottom and sides. Made by Sampson. I'm going to order the PDW upper and see how I like the short DD rail at first.
I don't know anything about Samson rails, but interesting:
http://www.adamsarms.net/products/Extended%20PDW%20Rail.jpg
I wonder if you can't just order the unit with the longer rail in the first place?
I wonder if you can't just order the unit with the longer rail in the first place?
I'm going to ask them when I place my order in 2 weeks. That option would be nice instead of having to order a standard barrel nut and DD wrench to remove the DD rail and install the sampson rail.
Tag, my 7.5" barrel is shot out and it's time to get a new one, this is an interesting option...
I don't know anything about Samson rails, but interesting:
http://www.adamsarms.net/products/Extended%20PDW%20Rail.jpg
I wonder if you can't just order the unit with the longer rail in the first place?
I just talked to AA and Rainier Arms. They said you can special order the rail and it will add $125 extra to the price of the upper. AA will build it and ship it to whatever AA dealer you purchase from. In my case it would be Rainier as that's who I plan to go through.
I just talked to AA and Rainier Arms. They said you can special order the rail and it will add $125 extra to the price of the upper. AA will build it and ship it to whatever AA dealer you purchase from. In my case it would be Rainier as that's who I plan to go through.
Not to be nick picky, but I'd have though a DD 4" rail would be close in cost to the longer Samson :confused:. For me, sounds like a magwell grip is in my future. Coming from an Aerospace Manufacturing background, I already have a ****ING HUGE chip on my shoulder about the ludicrous cost of rails for what goes into most of them. Especially the higher volume units. My CNC guys would kick shit like that out for fun... circa 1991.
...but I digress. This is a hot little number, and I'll have one anyway as it fits a purpose for me.
OK, I'm interested. I have some questions though. I have seen pictures with pinned and set screw gas blocks. The web site shows a pinned block. Is that what come on the upper from Adams? What receiver are these built on and what barrel does it use? How do they run with a suppressor? Is there a site with ballistics info on 5.56 and 7.62 X 39 out of short barrels like the PDWs that are available?
The Adams seems like a solid upper at a great price. It is tempting. I would wait if I knew they were doing a 7.62 X 39 PDW upper. In the meantime, I might just have to get the 5.56. The PWS Diablo in 7.62 looks great, but I don't really want to drop $1400 on it.
Zeus, any more info from the one your friend is running?
ETA: some info here; not sure how good it is (from Guns Magazine);
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_47/ai_68704858/
Not to be nick picky, but I'd have though a DD 4" rail would be close in cost to the longer Samson :confused:. For me, sounds like a magwell grip is in my future. Coming from an Aerospace Manufacturing background, I already have a ****ING HUGE chip on my shoulder about the ludicrous cost of rails for what goes into most of them. Especially the higher volume units. My CNC guys would kick shit like that out for fun... circa 1991.
...but I digress. This is a hot little number, and I'll have one anyway as it fits a purpose for me.
That's not nit picking. I just looked up the cost o a DD 4" rail and they're almost 2x more expensive than the sampson rail. AA would be making a huge profit by charging $125 extra and keeping the DD rail even if you subtract $50 for the installation of the new sampson rail. I think it makes more sense to buy the sampson rail seperately and sell the DD rail once removed. You could give it away for $250 and still be out ahead.
Spike's lists the 4.0 in stock at $199 and CS Tactical at $219. Not sure why DD would have MSRP at $399.
Why not simply buy or build a Krink? I have yet to find a reliable 7.62x39 rifle built on the AR platform. I owned a Colt and it NEVER ran reliably. Not sure that they can make a mag that will run reliably in the platform. Look how long its taken for reliable .308 mags...
Ergonomics, muscle memory, easier to get ammo and parts in a SHTF to name a few just to start. For me functional ergonomics of a AR versus an AK are a no-brainer.
I love my Bulgy Krink but I REALLY LOVE my SBR ARs.
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