View Full Version : Gen4 G17/22 + LRG Backstrap?
Picked up a Gen4 G17 mainly 'cause I really liked how the new grip felt in it's "SF" form (no backstrap installed) and have been shooting well with it over 1000rds...
Thing is, got curious and decided to play around with the backstraps for a minute (just to see how they attach and such), and found the gun with the "L" backstrap installed feels surprisingly good and it occured to me that like the thinner "SF" configuration is new on a G17, the configuration with the "L" installed is completely new also since a G17/22 isn't as fat as 10mm/.45's are; I never liked the feel of the G20/21/21SF's so I never really even thought of trying it.
Anyone try this?
I'm curious how this configuration may have worked out for any longtime 3rdGen G17/22 shooters...
I'm planning on shooting an IDPA match tomorrow, and I was planning on shooting the gun in "SF" form... but after dry-firing and drawing for a little while I'm starting to really dig all the real-estate I get for my support-hand and how the extra trigger-reach makes it pretty hard to get too much finger on the trigger with the "L" installed... seems counter-intuitive but I think it forces me into a better shooting form.
I dunno, going to try to hit an indoor range if I can tonight to check it out, or I might just go ahead and try it "cold" at the match anyhow...
Littlelebowski
06-04-10, 13:03
It doesn't feel good to me but I am interested in how this plays out. Keep us updated.
Interestingly, one of the things I like most about the Gen 4 is the smaller grip. Unfortunately, my strong hand thumb rests right on the slide release with no backstrap. When I go to the M backstrap (as you know standard size Gen 3) not only does my thumb moves back and off the slide release, but I shoot more accurately too.
It is quite the dilemma because while I prefer no backstrap, I shoot better and have less problems (ie, the slide locks back) with the M backstrap. Also my frame plug only works with no backstrap.
Our problems are similar. I am going to try to change my grip, strong hand thumb lower and in the groove below the slide release. Initially it feels bizarre like that but we'll see.
I guess what I am saying is we have to find whatever works best with the new choices that we have. I would say try to hit the indoor range tonight as opposed to "cold" tomorrow at the match.
Good luck.
I'm having the same issues, I like the feel of the gun without a backstrap on, but my thumb pretty much rests on top of the slide release. With the large backstrap on it feels like crap, but accuracy improves and I'm no longer hitting the slide release.
I really like the "SF" feel as far as handling the gun is concerned, just feels real nice and comfortable and I do shoot it well like that, liked it enough to buy the Gen4 based solely on that really...
But beyond how it feels in casual handling though, even just by dry-firing I can tell the "L" works better for my grip and trigger press, and I find that more than just about anything else technique-wise, if I've got my support-hand working right, I shoot pretty well.
In "L" form the gun feels real "planted" in my hand(s) and I can't wait to shoot it like this, never would've thought it...
Suppose the best thing I could say about it is that after handling the gun this way it's become clear that it's important to disassociate myself from just how good the gun feels in the hand long enough to really see what works better for me when the sights lift...
Oh I dig the L grip for sure. I need to study my grip vs John Wayne's exellent post on that other thread but I am shooting the L best - I think. Timer will say for sure.
I liked the feel of the small (or no) back strap the best. When I first shot the pistol, I fired 3 five shot groups and I found that my POI was only good with the M back strap installed. I took the better ability to hit the target over comfort.
With no back strap, the middle finger on my strong hand wraps too far around. I end up pinching just the tip with my support hand, which limits good surface area.
Put the small backstrap on, and it got better. (Plus, recoil was even better controlled. But that might be the hand position fix.)
I have the smallest hands out of everyone I know.
150rds tonight, would've shot more except a small party of annoying post-teens who've never handled firearms before decided they'd like to spend their evening muzzle sweeping me over and over...
Verdict: Duuuddde! If it fits your hand it's worth trying for sure. I tried to stay pretty robotic and go through drills that would bear out whether or not this was working or if I was just BSing that it was better... Did 50 of 5-shot groups from 10yrds to 25yrds, 50 draw-to-2 and 3 shots at 7yrds, and 50 of kind of both types of things... All I can say is I didn't throw a really bad shot even once, out of 20 or so, I had 2 draw-to-headshots at 20yrds that I missed by less than an inch, the rest landed in a fist-size group dead center of the head (averaged about 2 seconds per shot according to my trusty iPhone shot timer). I was pretty happy with the results.
I didn't do any FAST drills 'cause the goofballs showed up and were annoying me too much to want to hang out for very long but I'm guessing I'll be used to the reach to the mag release in no time.
The whole time I was able to track my sights really easily and get the sights to steady themselves very quickly from the draw.
I'm going to shoot it like this at the match tomarrow ans see how it goes but think I'm sold... never would've thunk it.
So shot my first IDPA match in kind of a while (2 month-old newborn here...) and changed many variables since my last one: new gun, new sights, etc.
Shot the Gen4 G17 with "L" backstrap installed, result: finished with "Most Accurate" with only 20 points down over 4 pretty tough stages, finished 7th overall amongst some very fine shooters (winner finished with 35 points down and won with quickness...).
I've never gotten the "Most Accurate" tag at a match before and there were some tuned STI's and Nighthawks and such in the field... the "L" is staying on the gun.
I have big hands but use no backstrap. I feel like I get better trigger control that way. I use a little more trigger finger on the Gen 4's than on the 3's probably because of the stiffer trigger. Also the no backstrap method means no hump on the bottom rear which I have gotten so used to that regular Glocks don't feel right, like the hump is sticking out into my hand. Also given the size of the new mag release less grip means I don't have to shift my hand to hit it.
So shot my first IDPA match in kind of a while (2 month-old newborn here...) and changed many variables since my last one: new gun, new sights, etc.
Shot the Gen4 G17 with "L" backstrap installed, result: finished with "Most Accurate" with only 20 points down over 4 pretty tough stages, finished 7th overall amongst some very fine shooters (winner finished with 35 points down and won with quickness...).
I've never gotten the "Most Accurate" tag at a match before and there were some tuned STI's and Nighthawks and such in the field... the "L" is staying on the gun.
Off to a good start! Kudos.
275 rds of Magtech 115 fmj today with the L backstrap. I checked it against JohnWayne's post about how he heels of the hands should fit together and the L backstrap passes that test for me. I'll be sticking with the L for now also.
I'm really rotating my support hand forward and so my hands fit together well and have equal pressure on the pistol but it also feels unnatural. But I shoot and control recoil better and faster that way. I have to keep reminding myself to rotate the hand though.
The grip I use is the "thumbs-forward" style ala Dave Sevigny, Todd Jarrett, Brian Enos, etc., means a pretty strong forward cant with the support-hand which gets the thumb pointing along the same plane as the muzzle... feels totally counter-intuative at first, but now it's so instinctive I couldn't imagine gripping any other way.
I shot the gun really well in "SF" form, in fact, I had almost convinced myself it was working better for me... that is, until I examined how cramped my support-hand really was, and also how I was crushing the crap out of my strong-hand fingers against the grip panel to the point where it actually would kind of hurt a bit. Once I tried the "M" installed (which is the same size as the third Gen's and what I've been used to for a long time) I could tell something needed to be hashed out, with the "L" installed my grip immediately felt even better...
Everybody's hands are different, so what works for me may not work for someone else, that said, just by playing around with the different grip profiles I happened upon the realization that what "feels good in the hand" and what really works best with one's real shooting grip can be quite different as well... remember, I did pretty much buy the new Gen4 to get the smaller grip profile... truly this is one of those areas where YMMV.
Yeah I'm not saying one or the other is better thats for sure. I should actually probably try a backstrap or two just to see if it makes a difference fr me. I'm so happy with the pistol the way it is I didn't really see the need.
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