Just ordered a new 870P woohoo

[NavyDavy55]

I plan on taking a Louis Awerbuck shotgun class this fall and just ordered a new shotgun.

18" Remington 870P Parkerized, Black Synthetic, Improved Cylinder, 3" chamber, Rifle Sight Tritium Meprolight Night Sight, 4+1, 14" Length of Pull.

[TOrrock]

Excellent choice.

I'd recommend looking at one of the body armor/"youth" stocks from Hogue or Speedfeed with a 12.5"/13" length of pull.

Much easier to use.

[Shawn.L]

are you coming to the class here in Pittsburgh in September ?

I am thinking of attending that one. Id love to train with Awerbuck, and I just picked up a shotty on trade from a member here (870 police with knoxx stock).

My delima is that I have plenty of pistol, some carbine, and no shotgun training. But Im just not sure if the shotgun will ever fill any kind of serious role in my life.

Of course I have learned things in several classes that translated to other areas. And a more well rounded skill set cant be a bad thing....................

[FindCover]

I gave up on 870's after a close look and feel at the 590A1 , twice the gun .

Now , send the 870 to Vang and get the magic done to the barrel , you will send me Christmas cards for life . Its worth the money .


The Vang Comp System (VCS), designed by gunsmith Hans J. Vang, is a set of modifications to shotgun barrels. The alterations to the barrel consist of lengthening the forcing cone, back-boring the barrel, and adding compensating ports. With the VCS, accuracy significantly improves, felt recoil is dramatically reduced, and muzzle rise diminishes. By lengthening the forcing cone, the pellets have a smooth flow from the chamber to the bore. This prevents the pellets from bunching up in the barrel and reduces the felt recoil. In addition, the pellets do not become as deformed and keep a more consistent shape.

Just do it .

[NavyDavy55]

are you coming to the class here in Pittsburgh in September ?


I plan on taking a Louis Awerbuck shotgun class this fall and just ordered a new shotgun.

I just want the chance to take a class with Awerbuck. I too have zero training with a shotgun so it's about time I got some.

Shawn, I'm also DaveM55 on other forums.

[NavyDavy55]

I gave up on 870's after a close look and feel at the 590A1 , twice the gun .

Now , send the 870 to Vang and get the magic done to the barrel , you will send me Christmas cards for life . Its worth the money .

Just do it .

What's that gonna run me dollar wise and turn around time?

[SeriousStudent]

I gave up on 870's after a close look and feel at the 590A1 , twice the gun .

Now , send the 870 to Vang and get the magic done to the barrel , you will send me Christmas cards for life . Its worth the money .



Just do it .

Why do you feel it's twice the gun? I'm not being rude, I'm curious. What criteria did you use? Failure rate of the parts? Non-user induced malfunctions? Performance in your work, or at a training class?

I have both, so this is not a urination contest. I'm just trying to understand why you feel that way.

To the OP - excellent choice, and I definitely agree with Templar about the shorter stock. Have a great time at Mr Awerbuck's class, he's an excellent instructor.

When you get a chance, may I respectfully suggest a Surefire light for it? Like the 618 series?

[SeriousStudent]

You may want to also look into the new buckshot rounds with the Flite-Control wads. A lot of people are very impressed with their performance out of a stock barrel.

If you do some Googling, you can see reviews with pictures. A pretty fair number of people are saving some money on a forcing cone job, and switching ammo.

http://www.federalpremium.com/hunters_education/flitecontrol.aspx

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/25rds-12-ga-federal-power-shok-low-recoil-9-pell-oo-buck/cName/12-gauge-buckshot

Hans is a great guy, and I have a bunch of his gear. His mag extensions are rock solid, and I like his followers a lot, too.

[Shawn.L]

I just want the chance to take a class with Awerbuck. I too have zero training with a shotgun so it's about time I got some.

Shawn, I'm also DaveM55 on other forums.

Dave !!! good to see you (see?) !

I dont want to stray off topic, but different screen names on different boards?

yes, every day it looks more like I'll take that class. If I dont take it I may assist on the range. So either way, it will be good to see you there.

[padwan]

Excellent choice.

I'd recommend looking at one of the body armor/"youth" stocks from Hogue or Speedfeed with a 12.5"/13" length of pull.

Much easier to use.

I agree. I learned the same thing from taking an Awerbuck class in 2001.

Some things I remember from the class in terms of preparations:


You might want to consider a sling. It comes in handy during the class.

A dedicated weaponlight makes things easier but a couple of guys (myself included) made it through the class with just handheld surefires.

Some people suggest a wussy pad for the slug segment of training. I used one but discovered I did better without one.

Re: Ammo. I knew nothing about shotguns and ammo before the class so I bought the cheapest birdshot they had at Turners. It was gray hulled Winchester Super Handicap and it kicked a lot harder than Federal 00 Buck. Turns out it had a heavier payload and higher velocity than the buckshot loads I had.

It would be good to stick to slugs in the 1 oz weight range too. The slugs I got were 1 1/4 oz and they were bruisers compared to the 1oz stuff that most everyone else was shooting.

I strongly suggest that you brown bag your lunch. Louis tends to stay at the range during lunch breaks and that is always a good time to either pick his brains or just absorb whatever discussions ensue at that time. If there are other trainers attending the class as students, the exchanges can be very rich.

Suncreen and water are your best friends.


Hope you can take the class. I vividly remember mine and it was the best money I spent on anything shotgun related.

[FindCover]

Why do you feel it's twice the gun? I'm not being rude, I'm curious. What criteria did you use? Failure rate of the parts? Non-user induced malfunctions? Performance in your work, or at a training class?

I have both, so this is not a urination contest. I'm just trying to understand why you feel that way.

To the OP - excellent choice, and I definitely agree with Templar about the shorter stock. Have a great time at Mr Awerbuck's class, he's an excellent instructor.

When you get a chance, may I respectfully suggest a Surefire light for it? Like the 618 series?


SS , sorry , I tend to give short answers . BUT .

Ok , I have over 800 rounds down range with my 590A1 , 60% low brass 7 shot , the rest 70/30 , 00 or slugs , . Never had a major broken part , the stock mag spring is junk and collapsed in the first 3 full mags , WOLFF spring fixed that , had the safety come loose , LoK Tite , fixed . The up top safety is faster to run . I have short stroked it many times , my fault , been getting better .

I see no real wear and all is good . The 590A1 is all steel , the newr 870's have plastic trigger groups ,I just like steel . Even Rem's Police guns are suffering at the hands of the new owners .



What's that gonna run me dollar wise and turn around time?

I paid LEO price , shipped my barrel with a group from the local SO . It was about a 2.5 week wait , not bad I thought . Groups improved with buck and slugs shoot a lot better .


I concur on the shorter stock , dont go crazy , but a youth 870 stock worked for me .

[TOrrock]

Not to get way off topic, but the 590A1 is not all steel, it's aluminum, which is better than the plastic bits on a standard 500 or 590.

The A1 is to a 590 the way the Police is to the Express.

[FindCover]

Not to get way off topic, but the 590A1 is not all steel, it's aluminum, which is better than the plastic bits on a standard 500 or 590.

The A1 is to a 590 the way the Police is to the Express.


:rolleyes: I should have stated METAL as opposed to steel .

[Oscar 319]

CC4me, great choice. You have the foundation for a great shotgun.

FindCover, I believe your comparison of the 870 vs the 590 is based on the 870 Express or "Tactical" line, not the 870P.

The 870P (Police models) are slicker, smoother and more refined than any 590 I have ever handled. The 590 is a robust weapon.

It does boil down to personal preference. There is nothing wrong with the 590.

For the record, I do own a 14" 590, which is carried daily for duty, and have owned a 20" 590. I cuss everytime I rack it, wishing it was an 870. I can't justify buying the 870 because the damned 590 works. Both are bomb proof.

[SeriousStudent]

Some handy data from Remington, regarding the differences between the LE line and Express:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf

[Pumpkinheaver]

The 870 is a true classic. I have several and all have been flawless!!!

[Dan Goodwin]

Short LOP stock, light and a two-point sling. If you must carry extra rounds on the gun, go with a 4-rd. Mesa. 870s get too heavy with lots of geegaws.

We issue the Fed Flite Control Wad 00 round and they shoot excessively tight patterns! Hand-with-spread fingers-sized at 20 yards in many of our IC BS 18-in. issue guns.

Call me a contrarian, but in these times if I want a tight group I'll shoot a carbine.

In shotgun situations, which to me are inside buildings or in heavy brush, I want buckshot to spread.

And, FWIW, if I need a slug it's to penetrate cover or auto coachwork so would prefer a fullpower Brenneke to a "tactical-low vel soft lead" load.

[SeriousStudent]

Good points, Dan.

Another reason that many favor a 4-round Mesa unit over a 6 or 8-round, is the slide. Some slides will impact the front of the spare ammo carrier on a 6 or 8-round unit.

My 870 seems to pattern very well with the Brenneke Black Magic rifled slugs also. I think I have tried 4 different Brenneke slug loads, and all have patterned very well.

One reason why a tighter pattern may be handy, is to get a little more range out of a buckshot load. Sometimes we want spread, other times we don't. That Mesa sure comes in handy when I need to do a "select slug" drill, or switch to a wider patterning load. Truly the main reason many of us pick up a shotgun.

Not trying to derail the OP's thread any further, but I do like a carbine much more than a shotty. I think of the 12-gauge like I thought of mortars when I was in the military. Heavy, fires many different loads, and best left in one place pointed in a specific direction, rather than toted about the landscape. The shotgun is great for pointing at the bedroom door from behind the gunsafe. But wandering around with one? I'd much rather have an SBR.

There is a long thread on it in the tactics and training session.

</hijack>

CC4me, please do us a big favor, and give us an AAR after your class? I would be really interested in what you picked up from the class, and what changes you make based on it. Have a safe and fun trip! :)

[bmyk]

Not to derail the topic, but concerning the LA class; what do you recommend for carry shotgun rounds? How are you carrying your spare rounds on your belt or chest rig? I know there is a lot of three gun gear, but I would like to hear from people who have taken a course..
Thanks

[WS6]

are you coming to the class here in Pittsburgh in September ?

I am thinking of attending that one. Id love to train with Awerbuck, and I just picked up a shotty on trade from a member here (870 police with knoxx stock).

My delima is that I have plenty of pistol, some carbine, and no shotgun training. But Im just not sure if the shotgun will ever fill any kind of serious role in my life.

Of course I have learned things in several classes that translated to other areas. And a more well rounded skill set cant be a bad thing....................

Up close, the shotgun is the most devestating (legal) weapon that one can reasonably wield.

[padwan]

Not to derail the topic, but concerning the LA class; what do you recommend for carry shotgun rounds? How are you carrying your spare rounds on your belt or chest rig? I know there is a lot of three gun gear, but I would like to hear from people who have taken a course..
Thanks

I don't know if the course material has changed a lot since 2001, but at the time I attended, most of us did fine with a sidesaddle and pants/vest pockets or belt carriers of some sort. Some guys had the California Competition Works shell caddies which were cool. Others had a belt-mounted shell pouch that carried loose rounds. One guy just stuffed the pockets of his Nomex flight suit with ammo.

[Dan Goodwin]

SeriousStudent; oddly enough I took a pretty nice whitetail with a Black Magic out of my 14-in. work gun many years back. Bead sight, 32 yards. Bang, stagger, flop. This was hunting in thick woods, not roadside euthanasia of a cripple.

I've killed a doe that had been shot in the neck with a soft Foster slug and was healing nicely.

[SeriousStudent]

SeriousStudent; oddly enough I took a pretty nice whitetail with a Black Magic out of my 14-in. work gun many years back. Bead sight, 32 yards. Bang, stagger, flop. This was hunting in thick woods, not roadside euthanasia of a cripple.

I've killed a doe that had been shot in the neck with a soft Foster slug and was healing nicely.

Mmmm..... venison. :D

Yup, I have a friend in PA that used one of their slugs to take a deer also. She mentioned it to me, and I gave them a try. She said they patterned really well out of her Ithaca, and they do the same out of my 870.

[NavyDavy55]

And here she is after a few minor modifications. Started life as a Remington 870P. Bought it with the rifle night sites. Put on a Hogue 12" buttstock, Scatter Technologies 6 shell side saddle, Specter Gear CQB sling, GG&G flashlight rail mount, EagleTac T100C2 Mark II flashlight with remote pressure pad tail cap.

BTW, shooting Federal Low Recoil Tactical 00 Buck with FliteControl wad, she shoots 3 inch groups at 21 feet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/870P/003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/870P/006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/870P/007.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

Remember to let us know how the class works out this fall. "Lessons learned" help us all. :)

[NavyDavy55]

Remember to let us know how the class works out this fall. "Lessons learned" help us all. :)

I bought his video on combat shotguns as a primer. Can't wait for the real thing.

[mrwickwire]

Excellent choice! You may want to consider a magazine tube extension. You should probably stick with a factory Remington tube though.

The 870P is my first and only go to defense shotgun.