View Full Version : Elcan Spector DR
Shooter101
06-06-10, 00:28
What does anyone have to say about them?
Expensive and if money were not an issue, I would buy one for my SCAR in a heartbeat.
O
mkmckinley
06-06-10, 04:37
I have one issued to me and I dislike it. The POI shift between 1X and 4X is about 3" at 25m. There are at least two others on my team that had the same problem right out of the box. The other problem is weight. they weigh 24 oz and are pretty tall. You can definitely feel it making your carbine top-heavy. The SCAR has a pretty tall receiver so the problem is even worse there.
On the bright side the BDC is nice and the illumination is pretty effective. They're pretty rugged. That said I wouldn't even consider buying on out of pocket. For the price you're getting into short dot territory.
EzGoingKev
06-06-10, 05:25
The POI shift between 1X and 4X is about 3" at 25m.
It would seem some units have a greater POI shift than others.
Here is mine at 25 yards -
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Kybyq3n1q3w/S7-_fk3nWEI/AAAAAAAACUQ/iyujeOPbx9E/s800/Elcan%20%40%2025yds.jpg
Shooter101
06-06-10, 06:58
I have one issued to me and I dislike it. The POI shift between 1X and 4X is about 3" at 25m. There are at least two others on my team that had the same problem right out of the box. The other problem is weight. they weigh 24 oz and are pretty tall. You can definitely feel it making your carbine top-heavy. The SCAR has a pretty tall receiver so the problem is even worse there.
On the bright side the BDC is nice and the illumination is pretty effective. They're pretty rugged. That said I wouldn't even consider buying on out of pocket. For the price you're getting into short dot territory.
What do you mean short dot?
Shooter101
06-06-10, 07:02
The thing I like about the Elcan is being able to scan a sector in 1X, acquire a target, flip to 4x with out coming off target and firing. It is a heavy optic though. The same company also has come out with a 1.5x to 6x.
What do you mean short dot?
S&B ... 1-4 One of the best made.
mkmckinley
06-06-10, 08:04
The thing I like about the Elcan is being able to scan a sector in 1X, acquire a target, flip to 4x with out coming off target and firing.
Have you used this technique with a SpectreDR or is this theoretical? I'm not trying to be condescending, I just haven't seen a multipower optic used that way. The way I've been trained, I scan on 1X with my eyeball and transition to an optic or sights to make a shot regardless of what power it happens to be. The time I would switch the power would be if I'm expecting a long or short distance shot ie keep it on 4x when patrolling in the open, switch to 1X in and around compounds. Scanning through an optic at 1X and then switching to 4X to make a shot seems like it would be slow. If you can see it at 1X why not just engage it?
Shooter101
06-06-10, 08:15
No this is after talking to a couple of Soldier who had them on a C.O.P.
This is what they said. I personaly do not have one. Have been thinking about them though. A little bet expensive though.
Shooter101
06-06-10, 08:17
S&B ... 1-4 One of the best made.
Why do you say that..
I'm not here to sharp shoot anyone, Just trying to get some information on the system.
VooDoo6Actual
06-06-10, 09:06
I'm fairly certain this topic has been covered ad nausem. I would do a SEARCH function.
Here's my take on the Elcan DR et al.
A know a lot of SOF guys who like them.
I also know alot of SOF guys who do not.
I have owned one, not sure which evo it was. My RET was amber which my eyes & brain do not prefer in most terra firma diurnal engagements. I would prefer RED which it is now.
The main issues have been the Zero shift & the ARMS mount.
There have been a number of units, elements, TEAMs who have procurred them and when implementing the optics (read Zeroing) several of them literally falling off the weapon from recoil impulse etc. & ZERO shift that turned a lot of people off.
Understandably so in any Danger Close / In Extremis situation etc. ;-/
That reality has been difficult to overcome. Having said that, some people contend that the levers were not adjusted correctly. Some feel it is an inherent design flaw etc. Some people don't care for the owner or his business ethics etc.
I'm ONLY disseminating info I have and not making judgment regarding this.
As D90King says the S&B Short DOT is/was the shizzle.
Do a search function and it will ellucidate itself to you as D90King alludes to.
There are a number of new variable power optics (i.e. 1X6 1X8 et al) that would probably be more efficacious in your endeavor. Again research, read, assimilate data & process it.
The concept of flipping the optic for optimal shot placement once threat is aquired is no doubt ideal. But the reality of having your optic fall off or shift in POA/POI is a bigger conceptual issue in my eyes...
Here's a fairly decent link to a test addressing POA/POI, ZERO shift change specifically.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1806056
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/Elcantest.jpg
Overall, to me if Elcan can eliminate (or has) those concerns I think it's a potentially good optic. Weight is a moot point in my eyes since any decent varaiable is going to weigh more due to glass elements and glass quality anyways.
Hope that helps answer your question.
YMMV...
hitman1012
06-06-10, 10:22
My buddy on SF has one issued, as does his team and he says they love them. They are not experiencing the zero shift at all. He said they have engaged targets out to 600M with them. I just picked one up also. I am going to the range today and plan on comparing it to my NF 1-4. So, far just a comparison at the house I can tell you a few things. The NF glass is not even close to being as clear the Elcan. Mine is the 1-4 elcan. The NF illumination is NOT visible in full sunlight, where the Elcan is. The NF does have a more forgiving eye relief. The Elcan, you need to be very close to it to get the proper picture. The Elcan can illuminate just a red dot or the full reticule, which is a nice feature. The field of view is slightly better on the Elcan at 4 power. I will provide more after some range results. Oh, and by the way my buddy said he has never had a team member break an Elcan. It is heavy, but I am not sure what the NF plus the mount weighs. My guess is it is close.
Belmont31R
06-06-10, 12:23
FWIW if you put a cat tail on a variable like a Short-Dot they are very quick to change magnification, and if you have the front of the gun supported could easily do it keeping your finger on/near the trigger, and use your left to change magnification. Also the lever allows a quick reference as to what power its set to. 3 o'clock is 1.1X and 6 o'clock is 4X. Everyone who has tried mine setup this way wanted to know where to get one, and couldn't believe how easy it was.
The 3 gunners developed them for quick magnification changes on the fly during competitions, and they work very nicely.
I looked at the Elcan, and think its an excellent idea but the (possible) zero shift, and crappy mount turned me off. Ive had issues with ARM's mounts, and they have one of the worst reputations as far as mounts go. No way Id pay that much money for an optic where that was my only choice.
EzGoingKev
06-06-10, 13:11
The weight isn't that far off from an ACOG once you include the weight of a mount.
mkmckinley
06-06-10, 13:46
Really? If a TA31 is about 10oz without a mount, and if the mount weighs two or three ounces that still makes the SpectreDR about a pound heavier.
EzGoingKev
06-06-10, 14:01
Really? A TA31 is about 10oz without a mount. If the mount weights two or three ounces that still puts the Spectre about a pound heavier.
I weighed the two of them when I got my Elcan and I can't remember what the difference was.
I saw people getting the weights of the Elcan and the ACOG off their respective sites and were comparing the two but did not realize the weight figure on Trijicon's site was for just the optic and did not include the mount.
Been using 1 in Afganland now for about 3 months with no shift in poi between the x1 and x4. Honestly I think it is a pretty solid optic other than the risk of using ARMs mounts. Personaly I have always been a EOtech guy, but as 90% of our engagments take place at past 250m it makes sense to have a magnifier.
I'm a civilian and have had a Specter DR a year mounted to Noveske middy.
* It is heavy (24oz) and the ARMS mounts do suck. I have had to shim the mount system to keep it tight. It seems fine now.
* It is expensive, but I got a very good deal on a NIB one last year - model was the latest rev as of spring 2009. I lucked out there. :)
* The glass is very good - seems better than ACOG.
* Eye relief is OK for those who practice nose-to-CH shooting and the FOV is quite generous on 1X
* The BDC reticle is spot on so far up to 300 yards. I want to shoot it further and see if it holds true to 600 with heavier bullets.
* The illumination options are great and my battery has lasted 1 year so far - kept on a lower illumination setting 24/7.
* The zero does not wobble on mine, the elevation wheel lock works well.
* I haven't looked for POI shift from 1X to 4X to closely because at closer ranges say out to 50 yards on 1X and 6MOA center dot I can hit whatever I need to hit. When I switch to 4X and shoot center dot or BDC it still hits. As such I have not noticed it to be an issue. Remember, this is a second focal plane reticle so I don't think the BDC retice will work properly on 1X - it is designed to work at 4X.
It would seem some units have a greater POI shift than others.
Here is mine at 25 yards -
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Kybyq3n1q3w/S7-_fk3nWEI/AAAAAAAACUQ/iyujeOPbx9E/s800/Elcan%20%40%2025yds.jpg
Did you zero the optic at 100 yrds in 4X?
EzGoingKev
06-07-10, 22:40
Did you zero the optic at 100 yrds in 4X?
Yes sir, I did.
Good to hear from people actually using them and reporting on their experienses. I've been researching the Elcan and getting a lot of crap from people for it. I think most comments I've received are based on things they've heard or on older gen Elcans. To the guys currently using them I ask if they are the latest gen 3 SOCOM models with the docter on them. I may be getting my hands on one for a real good deal so I would like to know what is the main difference between them and the older gen 2s. If I'm reading right it sounds like other than the ARMS mounts, the POI shift issue has been resolved. I've also read that the new ARMS mounts shown at SHOT Show this year are vastly improved and you may be able to retrofit the Elcans. Any info on that would be great.
Magic_Salad0892
06-08-10, 03:55
If you can retrofit the Elcan then I'd love to know more about the ARMS mounts.
I haven't been able to find anything on them at all.
mkmckinley
06-08-10, 04:30
I just thought I'd add to my previous post since this thread seems to have taken off. The POI shift is present in at least 3 out of twelve units on my team. Guys tend to zero at 4X and never really bother checking at 1X. My guess is that more of them out there have the shift but people aren't noticing it. I suppose the shift is something that could possibly be readjusted by the manufacturer. Also, seeing what I have, even if mine didn't have noticeable POI shift I would be constantly worrying that something would fall out of adjustment or something and cause a shift. I could see this happening if crap gets into the external adjustment mechanism or the unit gets bumped and something moves internally.
I agree with some of the previous posters. Great glass and battery life. The BDC is pretty damn close out to at least 800 m with 118LR out of the medium MK17 barrel.
I haven't actually seen many problems with the ARMS mounts.
I guess to sum it up, my personal experience in actually using the thing on patrols in the desert would consist of:
Pros:
Clear glass, decent FOV, good illum, good BDC, good battery life, durable, 1X-4X switching faster than traditional scope
Cons:
Pretty heavy, POI shift between 1X and 4X noticeable in some units, questionable mount
For anyone willing to accept the possible issues I would recommend taping 24 oz of tire weights or something onto a toilet paper tube and taping it onto your rail. Some people might not mind a pound and a half up there but I, personally, would try to get something lighter. Also, I wouldn't bother with a supplemental mini red dot. What's the point? You have a 1X red dot in the unit itself.
If they make one that weighs 16oz and doesn't have the POI shift I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Good stuff mkmckinley. I think the Elcan is truly the way of the future but they're not there just yet. It may take a few more years for them to get them lighter, find a solution to POI and better mounts. I think that the more they hear from guys like you in the front lines the better they will get. I guess 5 years from know when they weight and cost half a much, come with LaRue mounts and give you 1X 4X 8X without POI shift they will be the shit.
mkmckinley
06-08-10, 09:35
Yeah that would be amazing. If they even just managed to get the weight down to 20oz or less and eliminate POI shift I'd be a big supporter. In fact if they could do that they'd blow the short dot out of the water IMO. I don't think they'll be able to do a three magnification-setting optic with their current architecture. Basically the way it works is you have a 1X tube and a 4X magnifier inside. When you have it on 1X the magnifier is facing 90 degrees from the sight plane and you're looking between the two magnifier lenses. To switch to 4X you flip a little handle forward that rotates the 4X lenses into your sight plane. You can look into the front of the unit and see the magnifier flipping back and forth. It's a pretty nifty design actually. Rugged too. I just confirmed zero today and it was within minute of water bottle at 200m after bouncing around in an MRAP and foot patrols for five months.
EzGoingKev
06-08-10, 21:18
Basically the way it works is you have a 1X tube and a 4X magnifier inside. When you have it on 1X the magnifier is facing 90 degrees from the sight plane and you're looking between the two magnifier lenses. To switch to 4X you flip a little handle forward that rotates the 4X lenses into your sight plane. You can look into the front of the unit and see the magnifier flipping back and forth. It's a pretty nifty design actually.
The thing that I found interesting is that in 4x you are looking straight through the rear lens to the front lens. When you put it on 1x another set of lenses swings into the middle so you now you are looking through more lenses.
From my non-optical background I would have thought it would have been the opposite - the outer lenses would be just plain glass (meaning no magnification) and when you flipped it into 4x then the additional lenses would move inline and provide all the magnification duties.
Alaskapopo
06-09-10, 13:24
Yes sir, I did.
Those are some large groups for 25 yards.
Pat
After all the feedback I've received here and elsewhere I bought a new H-1 from one vendor for $387 shipped! Then I bought the tall mount from LaRue for $108 shipped. Total $495. That's $115 less than getting the LaRue combo shipped and a whole lot cheaper than an Elcan (not that money was an issue for me).
It doesn't look like I will be getting the Elcan at least this time around. I do know of an upcoming sale from one of the gun dealers I deal with. You'll get the new gen 3 military SOCOM Elcans with the doc optic mount and doc optic included for $2K. That's cheaper than the gen 2 military Elcans without the mount and optic you may find around the web.
I will not be using this insider knowledge but will gladly pass it on to anybody who ask. PM me if interested. FYI... I'm not connected/affiliated/employed/related/et al. with the dealer. I just hate to see a good deal go to waste.
Alaskapopo
06-10-10, 01:27
After all the feedback I've received here and elsewhere I bought a new H-1 from one vendor for $387 shipped! Then I bought the tall mount from LaRue for $108 shipped. Total $495. That's $115 less than getting the LaRue combo shipped and a whole lot cheaper than an Elcan (not that money was an issue for me).
It doesn't look like I will be getting the Elcan at least this time around. I do know of an upcoming sale from one of the gun dealers I deal with. You'll get the new gen 3 military SOCOM Elcans with the doc optic mount and doc optic included for $2K. That's cheaper than the gen 2 military Elcans without the mount and optic you may find around the web.
I will not be using this insider knowledge but will gladly pass it on to anybody who ask. PM me if interested. FYI... I'm not connected/affiliated/employed/related/et al. with the dealer. I just hate to see a good deal go to waste.
The T1 and H1 are fine RDS sights but they lack a long range capability.
Pat
The H-1 is going on a 10.5" 5.56 SBR meant for home defense (still waiting on form 4). I thought that getting the Elcan would give me the 1X for home defense and 4 X for range shooting. Most feedback I received was to the effect that for a SBR the Elcan was overkill and that I should save my money and go with the H1 or T1. Told repeadetly that the H1/T1 will provide me the ability to hit out to 150m which is definitely farther than any distance shooting I may need to do in the home defense situation. So I guess I'll save my money and get a magnified optic for my next SBR which will be in 7.62mm. It's been almost 20 years since I fired a black rifle. Back then only the snipers had optics so you had to do with your good ol' irons. I was always a good shot but now I think that my aging eyes can use the help so the H-1 should suffice for now.
Alaskapopo
06-10-10, 01:45
The H-1 is going on a 10.5" 5.56 SBR meant for home defense. I thought that getting the Elcan would give me the 1X for home defense and 4 X for range shooting. Most feedback I received was to the effect that for a SBR the Elcan was overkill and that I should save my money and go with the H1 or T1. Told repeadetly that the H1/T1 will provide me the ability to hit out to 150m which is definitely farther than any distance shooting I may need to do in the home defense situation. So I guess I'll save my money and get a magnified optic for my next SBR which will be in 7.62mm.
For your purposes a T1 or H1 would be fine. I personally prefer having the ability to shoot to the rifles potential. That means one of the following. 1. A good variable power scope. (1-4 or 1-6) 2. A fixed ACOG coupled with a T1 aimpoint in a off set mount. 3. An Aimpoint with a magnifier in a flip to side mount.
Pat
Definetly will be looking at the aimpoint/larue 3x flip magnification. I did get some feedback that when looking through the 3X and H1/T1 the dot is blurry. What are you experinces. I've been trying to find to find a picture that shows the reticle throught the 3x and T1/H1at the same time to see for myself.
Alaskapopo
06-10-10, 02:25
I have used a Aimpoint 3x magnifier for a few years behind a M4 2 moa dot. I also used it behind a 4 moa dot on my 22 build which has a Aimpoint ML2 and behind a Aimpoint ML3 2 moa dot. I have astigmatism so the dot looked like a group of dots. It was tolerable but not ideal. I have one rifle set up with a TA33 ACOG and a T1 in an off set mount and another set up with a Swarovski Z6i. I like the Swarovski the best. its a 1 to 6x scope that is very fast for me to use. I have never used a magnifier behind my T1.
Pat
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/colt1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/Coltdesc.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/NoveskeDesc.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/Noveskeside.jpg
mkmckinley
06-10-10, 02:57
Rob, Can you tell us more about the Gen 3 ELCAN's? What's different about them and how do you tell if an ELCAN you're looking at is GEN 2 or 3? Is there a model number? Are the Gen 3's being sold yet?
VooDoo6Actual
06-10-10, 19:05
1X 4X
"Coaxial Alignment: <1.5 MOA between fields"
http://elcansightingsystems.com/Specter_Family_of_Sights/Dual_Role_Sights/SpecterDR_1x-4x.php
Pat, I love the collection! Very nice.
mkmckinley, what HOPLOETHOS said.
From what I was told the military gen 3 is just like the latest civilian models but in the MRE color. The older ones are more of a bronze color while new new ones are more brownish. This web site has a decent review of the civilian version: http://www.cstactical.com/Optics/Elcan-SpecterDR-1-4x-Optical-Sight.html
They sell the civilian for $1832. The SOCOM versions usually go for $2100 without a doc optic mount or doc optic. I know where to get it for $2000 with a doc optic mount and doc optic if interested.
pbr streetgang
06-11-10, 22:42
I have 4 rifles, 2 with Eotechs, 1 with an Aimpoint T1, and one with the Elcan spectre DR. I also run Aimpoint 3x mags on the Eotechs and Aimpoint with twistmounts, but the Elcan is my favorite.
Without a doubt the clarity is superior to my other systems but you pay for with the added weight. I'm really hard on my gear and I beat the crap out of my rifles and constantly switch from 1x to 4x and I have never had any issues. As for the weight issue, I suggest a few extra push-ups every day and you won't even notice....
I wish I could find a dealer that actually has at least one in stock so I could handle it at see it first hand. I'm reluctanct to spend that kind of money on something unseen. I found a list of distributors on the Elcan web site I'm going to be calling to see if I luck out and find somebody that has one not too far away from Orlando.
westcoastfrog
06-12-10, 01:23
i have a lot of buddies who have had the same poi shift issue. the few guys i know running the issued elcan are still running dr sights on top because of the eye relief on the elcan. i just don't see the point of having a 1-4x scope if you still have to mount another red dot on top of it. i'd rather have a fixed power with red dot on top. if you're choosing between issued optics i would say that the acog with dr set up works well...regardless of the cheek weld issue a lot of guys have been running it for a while now and love it. if you're purchasing optics on your own i would just buy a short dot. just my thoughts.
Alaskapopo
06-12-10, 01:41
i have a lot of buddies who have had the same poi shift issue. the few guys i know running the issued elcan are still running dr sights on top because of the eye relief on the elcan. i just don't see the point of having a 1-4x scope if you still have to mount another red dot on top of it. i'd rather have a fixed power with red dot on top. if you're choosing between issued optics i would say that the acog with dr set up works well...regardless of the cheek weld issue a lot of guys have been running it for a while now and love it. if you're purchasing optics on your own i would just buy a short dot. just my thoughts.
My roommate has a Elcan there is plenty of eye relief on 1x and a red dot is not needed. Also if your going to run a red dot with an ACOG on top is the worst place to put it. A off set mount works better in my experience. The Elcan may have less eye relief on 4x but then again so do ACOGS. (TA 31 has very short eye relief)
Pat
Shooter101
06-19-10, 10:23
These pics are to show you the shift between the 1x- and the 4x at 300 meter. This says it all. I did not bench shoot this, It is in the sitting supported.
hitman1012
06-25-10, 17:13
OK, so... I finally made it out today to do some testing/comparison between my ELCAN 1-4 and my NF 1-4 with an FC-2 reticle. This may be just me but these are my observations. The Elcan is noticeably more clear. Especially at distance. I really suck at taking pics so I would not do it any justice. The field of view is bigger in the Elcan on 4 power than the NF on 4 x. I am out in New Mexico, and the Elcan dot shows up great even against the sand and bright ass light here. The NF does not. I decided to put the Elcan on an AR-10 and the NF is on one of my SR-15's. I went out to 500 yds and compared em both some more. Again the Elcan shines over the NF... at least for me. I was holding on the 400 mark in the Elcan and hitting a small steel plate about every time. I did the same with the NF holding on the triangle and made consistent hits at 500. These were with some handloads and they are little hot.
In all, I personally like the Elcan more, but it is also another $600-$800 more than the NF. I did not have time to test the so called shift between switching from 1-4 power. I know some guys notice it but my buddy has these in Afg. and the whole team loves them and he said they have NOT noticed any zero problems or issues when switching between 1 and 4 power. I zeroed mine on 4 power as you are supposed to.
Next time out I will see if mine shifts and if so how much.
Thomas M-4
06-25-10, 17:39
Has anybody ever mounted an elcan dr on a HK/ptr .308 rifle?
Thanks hitman. Just the kind of feedback I've been looking for.
Im trying to decide beween the TA31ecos or the Specter DR right now for my SCAR......
These pics are to show you the shift between the 1x- and the 4x at 300 meter. This says it all. I did not bench shoot this, It is in the sitting supported.
Who would elect to use the 1x setting when shooting a target at 300m when they had a 4x option available at the flick of a lever?
The entire point is to zero at longer ranges at the 4x setting. End result: no shift, point of aim equals point of impact.
When employing site at CQB distances, use the 1x setting, and the shift is essentially meaningless. Your point of impact maybe be off by 1 MOA or so from point of aim, but what's the problem?
It's still bloody expensive and big, although when you tally the weight of any of the better 30mm tube scopes and accompanying mounts, the weight delta isn't all that great between the two.
mkmckinley
06-28-10, 16:47
The entire point is to zero at longer ranges at the 4x setting. End result: no shift, point of aim equals point of impact.
When employing site at CQB distances, use the 1x setting, and the shift is essentially meaningless. Your point of impact maybe be off by 1 MOA or so from point of aim, but what's the problem?
Ideally the POI is only 1 MOA or so. In my issued unit it's more like 12. No BS. It's off by about 3" to the 2 oclock position at 25m. Of course it's zeroed on 4X but I still don't have a ton of confidence in my optic. What's to say that whatever is out of alignment at 1X won't drop out at 4X?
Ideally the POI is only 1 MOA or so. In my issued unit it's more like 12. No BS. It's off by about 3" to the 2 oclock position at 25m. Of course it's zeroed on 4X but I still don't have a ton of confidence in my optic. What's to say that whatever is out of alignment at 1X won't drop out at 4X?
12 MOA shift is definitely out of spec (published spec is less than 1.5 MOA shift between fields). Units should be returned and vendor should repair/replace.
My understanding is the shift is due solely to design of the way the optic shifts between powers. If you're not shifting powers, there's no shift.
I don't think this has been asked.
What is the weight difference between the elcan and running say a system like Aimpoint CompM3 and Aimpoint 3x Magnifier on a twist out mount?
By the time I will be able to afford an Elcan they might just have got it perfected
Ive mounted mine on my PTR91 SC a few times. Heres mine on my SCAR...
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0210.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0211.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0232.jpg
wow that looks good buddy. one day i will own one too
Ive mounted mine on my PTR91 SC a few times. Heres mine on my SCAR...
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0210.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0211.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e187/Hypercomp01/CIMG0232.jpg
Does that reticle glow red in the daylight as well?
Oops I re-read all the responses and saw my answer.
I emailed the regional manager in Canada on the Arms mounts. I asked him if they were going to release them without them in the future. We will see what he says! I would be interested in one if they did!
99hmc4, what is the battery life on that?
thx
I had heard that Mark LaRue is now looking into making a mount for the Specter DR. If it is possible, he will do it
It would be pretty easy to make a Larue mount for it. I will say he will charge up the ass for it though. I dont mind the ARMS mounts for now. As for battery life? I dont know, its a 1/3 N battery and Elcan says 3000 hour life. Well see......
It would be pretty easy to make a Larue mount for it. I will say he will charge up the ass for it though.
No-one has made one thus far. If it were that simple to do, I would think that someone would have done it by now since the ARMS mounts are one of the common complaints or "issues" that have come up from end users of the Specter DR.
"charge up the ass", seriously? In comparison to what?
Let me say one thing first, I DO like Larues products. That being said anyone can make another mount for the Elcan but I dont see the market for it. Its just like any other part or maount but it will only work for the elcan. When they do make mounts, they will be expensive like the elcan itself. Again, not a big market for them but it would be nice tohave the option....
Compared to ARMS mounts that are of spotty reliability even if the swing-arms don't get broken and the entire line hasn't had any product development done to them is a decade or two(unless fiing lawsuits on competitors counts as R&D)?
There's a market for LaRue or anybody who can find a way to ditch the ARMS and get something that doesn't require tinfoil shimming and rain-dances to keep it's zero, particularly since the current mounting is the optic's greatest character flaw. If one is already dropping the scratch ($$$) for a Specter DR in either 5.56 or 7.62, dropping a fraction of the same is a wise investment, not an additional cost.
Something that bombproof, with better-than-decent glass, and on a mount that actually works? There's a market.
I agree, I would buy a larue for mine. I never said it wouldnt be worth it, just that it would be pricey.....
I just picked up a brand new black Elcan SpecterDR C1 model with a July 9, 2010 manufacture date (I contacted armament.com to find out based on s/n). Awsome albeit a little heavy. Built like a tank is an understatement. So far no problems with the standard mount levels. A dealer that sells both the civilian and the SOCOM models confided that the new civilian models seem better built than the SOCOM overrun models he sells. As far as the mount is concerned A.R.M.S. came out with the Throw-Level Mk. II that look rather promising:
5907
I'm going to be contacting them to see if they can be used to replace the Elcan's standard levels.
I'd heard reference to their "improved" lever(s) but that actually looks quite promising.
Please keep us informed as to what you find out. I'm scary close to pulling the trigger on one of these DRs.
Thanks.
parishioner
11-09-10, 16:50
Recently, I've seen some photos of SF guys with Docter sights on top of their Elcans.
Is this because the 1x on the Elcan is no good?
Or is it just another option, in case the optic is in 4x and they need to take a close shot immediately and don't have time to manipulate the lever?
When I first saw it I was a bit confused because I thought the whole concept behind the Elcan is so you don't have to have an Acog w/docter type setup.
Here is a pic (both rifles on the strap have it): http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/686/100709f9631d003.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6303/20100930aj1768004.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9579/staffsgtjeremykingcct35.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2qkny85.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p428/stirling28/Army%20Special%20Forces/7thSFGAFIDtrainingwithBelizeanforce.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/j8czkz.jpg
I just found quite a few examples of this, so I'm guessing its a pretty common thing to do for whatever reason.
Purely speculating, but they could be seeing some POI shift between 1x and 4x, and don't want to bother with it, so the Elcan stays of 4x and they go with a piggyback.
Could be what you mentioned, as well, but then one could reduce weight and simply go with an ACOG (except that's not what comes in the SOPMOD kis, so far as I know).
Something like that is pretty hard to nail down without direct input from the primary source
parishioner
11-09-10, 18:25
Purely speculating, but they could be seeing some POI shift between 1x and 4x, and don't want to bother with it, so the Elcan stays of 4x and they go with a piggyback.
Could be what you mentioned, as well, but then one could reduce weight and simply go with an ACOG (except that's not what comes in the SOPMOD kis, so far as I know).
Something like that is pretty hard to nail down without direct input from the primary source
Yea, I remember reading some reports of a shift when going from 1x to 4x. So I guess like you said, they are possibly zeroing with the 4x and using the docter as their 1x. If so, that kinda stinks they have to carry that extra weight.
Gray Ghost
11-11-10, 02:39
Recently, I've seen some photos of SF guys with Docter sights on top of their Elcans.
Is this because the 1x on the Elcan is no good?
Or is it just another option, in case the optic is in 4x and they need to take a close shot immediately and don't have time to manipulate the lever?
When I first saw it I was a bit confused because I thought the whole concept behind the Elcan is so you don't have to have an Acog w/docter type setup.
Here is a pic (both rifles on the strap have it): http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/686/100709f9631d003.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6303/20100930aj1768004.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9579/staffsgtjeremykingcct35.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2qkny85.jpg
http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p428/stirling28/Army%20Special%20Forces/7thSFGAFIDtrainingwithBelizeanforce.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/j8czkz.jpg
I just found quite a few examples of this, so I'm guessing its a pretty common thing to do for whatever reason.
WOW VERY cool photos you collected there.
I have the SOCOM SpecterDR and the FDE Doctor mount but no Doctor.
When I bought the Elcan from Kerif I mailed a few of them back to him because they weren't the exact model I wanted but third times a charm and I finally got the one I wanted. I paid for return shipping/insurance twice on a very expensive and heavy little box so I think Ken made it up to me by throwing the FDE Doctor mount in for free.
I was at the range a few weeks ago and was shooting 1 MOA with the Elcan and my SCAR 16S with IMI M855 ammo. I was shooting in 4x mode for about an hour then I flipped over to 1x and shot the same target at 100 yards.
My POI had shifted appox. 4 inches to the right. I'm not sure if I can blame the optic or my shooting for that. At 1x the red dot is 6 MOA making it a pretty large red circle blocking my target. I was able to put about 10 rounds in a 3 inch group but I definitely wasn't shooting 1 MOA anymore without the magnification. So like I said I don't know if it was the reticle basically just completely covering the target and making me shoot to the right or if there's a problem with the Elcan. I emailed Kerif who contacted the US distributor and they explained the POI shift between shooting at 4x with a 1.5 MOA dot and 1x with a 6 MOA dot. They did say they could import/export the optic back to Elcan Canada but it might be a lengthy process so I left it at that. If more problems occur down the road I'll follow up with them but I'd like to get a little more range time in before I make up my mind about the optic.
Recently, I've seen some photos of SF guys with Docter sights on top of their Elcans.
Is this because the 1x on the Elcan is no good?
Or is it just another option, in case the optic is in 4x and they need to take a close shot immediately and don't have time to manipulate the lever?
When I first saw it I was a bit confused because I thought the whole concept behind the Elcan is so you don't have to have an Acog w/docter type setup.
My first thought was when using it with a gas mask.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.