View Full Version : Glock Armorers Course-New info re Gen 4, et al:
I took the Armorers Course in Connecticut yesterday and learned some things that were new to me and received confirmation re some of the things we speculated about here (we were told we were the third class to hear the following):
1. The repair on a G17 Gen4 with functioning problems is the new (02) dual captured recoil spring. It is two pounds lighter than the standard. There is no provision for and it is not feasible to swap out the slide assemblies as the slides/frames between a Gen3 and Gen4 are not interchangeable.
2. The #9 follower on a G22 Gen4 is only necessary if switching the mag catch to the right side for lefties. The area supporting the slide release is longer. Apparently when the mag catch is moved to the other side more space is created near the contact area between the lip of the magazine and the slide release. Otherwise, the #8 followers are good to go.
3. We all know that the recommended replacement interval for a standard recoil spring is 5000 rounds. On the new dual captured springs there is no official word yet. When pressed we were told between 7500-10000 on a G22 Gen4. Presumably higher on a G17Gen4. Apparently there is a G22 Gen4 being used as a mule with 17000 rounds (with a light mounted) that has not experienced any stoppages using the same recoil spring.
4. Apparently there is a mag catch available that splits the difference in length between the standard and the extended. It was ordered by the FBI-part #6351 (but its not on the standard parts list). I didn't say it but LAV did it first and his is contoured.
5. The ambi-mag catch is no longer offered on the G21 SF as it was "Glock's Edsel". Apparently it is feasible that foreign matter can get lodged in the mechanism causing the entire catch to fall apart where as a result nothing is holding the magazine in place "a bad thing in a gun fight". The repair is a free new standard non ambi frame. This should be done as preventive maintenance.
* Dont laugh: A new rifle caliber (556) striker fired rifle is being developed and may be available in January.
...Why not this rifle, "three" other companies call it theirs, why not Glock too!!!:D
Velcro
1. The repair on a G17 Gen4 with functioning problems is the new (02) dual captured recoil spring. It is two pounds lighter than the standard. There is no provision for and it is not feasible to swap out the slide assemblies as the slides/frames between a Gen3 and Gen4 are not interchangeable.
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Well, didn't that turn out to be simple. Not a Gen 3 recoil spring obviously ;) but a simple spring swap. Oh the humanity! :D
This will be interesting to try and compare handling qualities. Plus the wide variety of Gen 4 springs avail from Glockmeister. Should be interesting.
No "dish" on how they set up the new G19?
Thanks much, great report.
Nothing on the Compact guns though i tried. I did get him to admit that the Gen4 guns have a harder trigger pull (6.5 lb). As has been discussed here before, the angle of the new trigger bar where it mates to the connector causes this. We were told to use the Gen 3 trigger bar if anyone is concerned.
Over all a very good experience. The two instructors were top notch and honest.
As a side note: this morning i called Glock and told them that as a result of some of the things i was told at the class i needed an upgrade to my wife's G19; namely the new slide lock spring (its now stainless and untapered). Much to my surprise the response was that based on the serial # i should also change the slide lock itself. He asked how many rounds the gun had (15,000) and the response was "lets change the extractor too". I said ok and he said "tell you what how about i send you the whole 9mm upgrade kit". You can surmise my response.
Pressing my luck: i said "that since my G22 Gen 4 only had 2400 rounds i was told not to worry about the recoil spring until about 7500 rounds-what do you think"? He said "change it at 5000, i'll add it to the upgrade kit-i will talk to the mail guys and get this out priority".
Total cost:$0.0:D
Thank you very much for sharing this insightful technical detail.
tracker722
06-09-10, 09:48
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Littlelebowski
06-09-10, 09:59
They're talking about Glock's new 100 yard range at LightFighter. 2 different sources have mentioned it.
tracker722
06-09-10, 10:06
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Littlelebowski
06-09-10, 10:07
So you feel something is finally moving in this area?
Sorry for being skeptical and the hijack.
Sounds like it but we shall see what we shall see.
2. The #9 follower on a G22 Gen4 is only necessary if switching the mag catch to the right side for lefties. The area supporting the slide release is longer. Apparently when the mag catch is moved to the other side more space is created near the contact area between the lip of the magazine and the slide release. Otherwise, the #8 followers are good to go.
I was wondering about this. My Gen4 G22 came with the #9 followers and I just assumed they improved them again over the #8. I've been waiting on finding mags with the #9 followers before buying anymore, but since I don't plan on swapping the mag release I'm good to go with the #8 it seems. I've noticed both mags with the above followers also have the 2 on the lower backside of the mag.
Thanks for the info! :)
So are the new Gen 4/17 springs going to be on all Glock 17's or just those that have issues? Sounds like the latter.
I was wondering about this. My Gen4 G22 came with the #9 followers and I just assumed they improved them again over the #8. I've been waiting on finding mags with the #9 followers before buying anymore, but since I don't plan on swapping the mag release I'm good to go with the #8 it seems. I've noticed both mags with the above followers also have the 2 on the lower backside of the mag.
Thanks for the info! :)
Nothing wrong with changing to the #9 followers once your #8's get run down though. At that point the #8's probably wont be available anyway.
So are the new Gen 4/17 springs going to be on all Glock 17's or just those that have issues? Sounds like the latter.
The instructor referred to the 02 spring as a fix for the G17 Gen4 with issues. He also said that the G17 Gen 4 was designed for full power SAAMI spec loads. It was indicated that if you go with some of the lighter loads "like Winchester White Box this could happen". I didnt press further but i would say the 02 spring is available only for those in need. Its good to know the option is out there.
the 02 spring is available only for those in need.
Is it available now, or do you just mean it will be available soon?
I was told it was coming out very shortly. I can only speculate after that. Use full power ammo until then.
As a side note: this morning i called Glock and told them that as a result of some of the things i was told at the class i needed an upgrade to my wife's G19; namely the new slide lock spring (its now stainless and untapered). Much to my surprise the response was that based on the serial # i should also change the slide lock itself. He asked how many rounds the gun had (15,000) and the response was "lets change the extractor too". I said ok and he said "tell you what how about i send you the whole 9mm upgrade kit". You can surmise my response.
Pressing my luck: i said "that since my G22 Gen 4 only had 2400 rounds i was told not to worry about the recoil spring until about 7500 rounds-what do you think"? He said "change it at 5000, i'll add it to the upgrade kit-i will talk to the mail guys and get this out priority".
Total cost:$0.0:D
Thats great that they took care of you! How would one go about finding out wether or not their Glock was in need of this upgrade? Sounds like a few parts have been refined and/or modified?
As the owner of several 19's and 26's, thanks in advance!
-Drew
I heard Glock was switching from Tennifer to Melonite so they can finish the guns here and print "Made in the USA" on their slides. Any notes on that in the course?
Thats great that they took care of you! How would one go about finding out wether or not their Glock was in need of this upgrade? Sounds like a few parts have been refined and/or modified?
As the owner of several 19's and 26's, thanks in advance!
-Drew
Call CS and have your serial # handy.
I heard Glock was switching from Tennifer to Melonite so they can finish the guns here and print "Made in the USA" on their slides. Any notes on that in the course?
The word Melonite never came up. Tennifer must have been mentioned 100 times. I will say this, we were told that there are now 2 milling machines in Smyrna able to produce full guns in the US. In comparison there are 16 in Austria.
Magic_Salad0892
06-11-10, 05:39
0_0
If Glock stops using Tenifer I will never own another Glock again.
That's the best thing about them. Being almost as hard as diamonds.
I probably wont own a U.S. made Glock. (I use Beretta as an example why.)
John_Wayne777
06-11-10, 07:09
Melonite and tennifer are essentially the same thing.
They showed us an interesting demonstration of knife sharpening against the top of the slide. The knives were sharpened without any surface wear of the black oxide which covers the Tennifer. I would never do this with my own gun of course.
Stretz Tactical Inc
06-11-10, 08:03
I love how glock mentions the gen 4 G22, with a light attached, with 17,000 rounds malfunction free. Did they tell you that the glock rep brought a NY LE agency (my agency) a brand new never been fired gen 4 G22, 3 months ago and it malfunctioned almost as much as our gen 3's with the light on it? I like glocks and own several, I just wish they would be more honest.
TheSmiter1
06-11-10, 08:52
I love how glock mentions the gen 4 G22, with a light attached, with 17,000 rounds malfunction free. Did they tell you that the glock rep brought a NY LE agency (my agency) a brand new never been fired gen 4 G22, 3 months ago and it malfunctioned almost as much as our gen 3's with the light on it? I like glocks and own several, I just wish they would be more honest.
That's interesting... Anyone else have experience, or know of anyone that has experienced malfunctions, with lights attached to Gen 4 Glocks? It would be a damn shame if the problem hasn't been resolved.
I love how glock mentions the gen 4 G22, with a light attached, with 17,000 rounds malfunction free. Did they tell you that the glock rep brought a NY LE agency (my agency) a brand new never been fired gen 4 G22, 3 months ago and it malfunctioned almost as much as our gen 3's with the light on it? I like glocks and own several, I just wish they would be more honest.
Actually the rep did discuss problems with G22 Gen4 Glocks sent to NY-(3 guns in particular). Three of the Officers were in the room and acknowledged that Glock is addressing the problems. Two of the guns have out of spec frames causing the Locking block pins to slowly creep out during firing. Same lot. Before anyone asks; i dont know the serial #'s.
Stretz Tactical Inc
06-11-10, 19:25
Actually the rep did discuss problems with G22 Gen4 Glocks sent to NY-(3 guns in particular). Three of the Officers were in the room and acknowledged that Glock is addressing the problems. Two of the guns have out of spec frames causing the Locking block pins to slowly creep out during firing. Same lot. Before anyone asks; i dont know the serial #'s.
I'm glad to see they are finally out in the open about it. They gave us all the same old excuses as to why it was happening. Hopefully it will be corrected. Only time will tell
glad to hear there's a fix for the g17 recoil spring... that's good news. :cool:
Magic_Salad0892
06-12-10, 03:12
Melonite and tennifer are essentially the same thing.
3 Questions:
1 - What is the difference?
2 - Do you have any links to information about Melonite vs. Tenifer? (Google-fu sucks)
3 - Does Melonite have the same longevity?
3 Questions:
1 - What is the difference?
2 - Do you have any links to information about Melonite vs. Tenifer? (Google-fu sucks)
3 - Does Melonite have the same longevity?
Not John_Wayne, but IIRC the difference is basically the substitution of a different chemical for the cyanide used in the Tenifer process. In what I have read before this was done to satisfy EPA regs on the use of Cyanide.
As I understood they were basically the same quench hardening process otherwise.
Thanks for the information, the dept. I work for is upgrading to the new Gen 4 G22's next week. I am very interested to see how the backstraps fit. I have two other glocks and while they always work they don't fit my hands worth a darn. I am hoping the new backstraps will fix this problem. But thanks again for the information it is very useful since our armorers have not attended class yet.
John_Wayne777
06-12-10, 11:35
3 Questions:
1 - What is the difference?
Depends on who you ask. "Tenifer" and "Melonite" are brand names for a nitrocarburizing process that is also known by a bunch of other industry names. Variations in the exact recipe for the process can, as far as I can tell, have impact on things like the depth of the finish (both are surface treatments...how deep the treatment goes is of some importance), the type of metals it is best suited to be used with, etc.
2 - Do you have any links to information about Melonite vs. Tenifer? (Google-fu sucks)
Type in "tenifer vs. melonite" and you'll be deluged with enough reading to make your eyeballs bleed. There's a relatively good thread on Glocktalk about it where a dude with the handle of TenesseeSlim has a bunch of informative posts mixed in with a bunch of nonsense from some others. He even has a link to a whitepaper from one of the companies who offers a nitrocarburizing process under a different brand name.
3 - Does Melonite have the same longevity?
As a surface treatment for metal it accomplishes essentially the same thing...increasing the surface hardness of the metal, adding corrosion resistance, etc. There are still implications from the selection of the steel that the surface treatment is applied to. Glock got into some trouble with the Department of Energy some years ago because they used some pretty bad quality metal in a run of G22's bound for a DOE contract. The slides cracked on them in pretty short order despite the tenifer treatment. In other words, surface treatments may harden and provide corrosion resistance...but they don't turn water into wine.
When applied properly to a good quality steel either brand name for the nitrocarburizing process will more than likely perform splendidly for the end user of a firearm.
Dos Cylindros
06-12-10, 15:39
They're talking about Glock's new 100 yard range at LightFighter. 2 different sources have mentioned it.
I heard about this range in 2002 when attending a Glock armorers course.
Magic_Salad0892
06-13-10, 04:51
Thank you JW777, I appreciate the reply.
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