View Full Version : Thread question regarding females....
There have been a few images posted on the board that include the clothed female form. For awhile I have been thinking of starting a thread in the General Discussion area titled "Women of Weapons".
The idea behind this thread would be to have images that showcased women who were involved in the weapon community, women who were shooters, and women with weapons. I think the possible issue would become where the line would need to be draw to stay compliant with board rules, obviously the board doesn't need porn of any flavor.
A secondary issue would be keeping images legal (not violating copyright), meaning images posted would need to be ones shot by the poster, or images that they had permission to post.
I can understand the idea of keeping the board a place that is dedicated to firearms, as well as keeping the tech sections work safe.
Thoughts, comments, ideas, feedback.....?
The avatar of my wife holding the Model 29 says it's a great idea.
So long as it's tasteful, not trashy. Keep it professional. One of the greatest things about America is our beautiful women.
I say if it gets trashy, it goes. If everyone keeps it clean, why not? It's your choice to click it. Just my thoughts.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
06-10-10, 22:15
I always considered pictures of guns alone to be gun porn.. :D But I'd say go for it. Would be cool as long as we're not talking inbred midget, raging, angry lesbian types. :eek:
What's wrong with trashy? :D
Outlander Systems
06-10-10, 22:31
I'm all for this, as long as you bust out more of the redhead / i-phone girl.
I would like to see a greater number of lady shooters of all ages feel welcome in internet venues such as M4C. I support any thread that garners their interest, membership, and participation. I fear that a thread featuring gals with guns, and the comments therein, would ultimately descend into pseudo-erotica objectifying women more than promoting their interest in the shooting sports, and reinforce negative male stereotypes.
Sum: If it goes forward, it needs to be professional, tasteful, devoid of assclownery, and well moderated.
ST911,
I think a large portion of the moderation would need to be in the comments people made.
Again, the idea behind the thread would be more than simply hot chicks with guns. There are plenty of sites for that.
I'd like to see a thread with chick SHOOTERS...not just some skank who was told to hold some nickel plated hand cannon because it looks sexier...
I honestly do not see it adding anything positive to the site and is just asking for pics of gun show females in semi-porn poses.
I second the idea, as long as the pictures are classy and original and doesn't turn into "post girls + guns I found off google thread".
eternal24k
06-11-10, 11:12
i agree with Jeffu, but I don't necessarily think it needs to be classy :D
I don't think it's a good idea.
Women have a hard enough time being accepted on a firearms forum without guys falling all over themselves.
I think its a great idea!~
Velcro
Outlander Systems
06-11-10, 11:58
I only know one female shooter personally. When I was first asking this girl out, she informed me that she had AIM; asked what her screen name was...
...GlockShooter26.
:eek:
Now we're married.
Women have a hard enough time being accepted on a firearms forum without guys falling all over themselves.
Honestly, now that I think about it, I kind of agree. Frankly chicks with guns are great, but at some point it's counter productive to bringing in women to OUR community.
karmapolice
06-11-10, 12:13
I think your idea and sentiment are good stick but it won't work because the varying levels of maturity here. I have a strong feeling it will turn into a debauchery. We don't need to be counterproductive with getting more female shooters here and or more females interested in shooting.
A ladies section might work where the women themselves or their so's can post pictures of them participating in the shooting world but it would have to be heavily moderated for comments and dudes trying to post soft core type photos.
If any are allowed I think it needs to be non "modeling" photos and rather actual shooters and or normal females participating in the shooting community.
I apologize for any grammar issues I typed this out fast on my iPad.
parishioner
06-11-10, 12:16
The thread has the potential to be absolutely spectacular as well as the ability to become distasteful quickly.
I say pass. It would be nice if we could keep it mature but unfortunately people wouldn't know where to draw the line and filter their comments. It's too unstable.
More women need to get involved...they are better shooters by nature already!
Velcro
Outlander Systems
06-11-10, 12:22
How about a "Ladies Only" section of the forum, similar to the LEO area? Identity verification would be a CharlieFoxtrot, but...just throwin' it out there.
Dude, when that chick from the Military channel got on here(Will Willis' show), it was like "OMG Ur Soooo HoTt" fest '09".
To me that set a bad precedent.
All that being said, where can I find more of the redhead with the i-phone? ;)
Let me pose a thought, do you think one way to avoid trashy is that photos would be submitted to an M4C email address, before it was posted by a moderator they'd be screened? I mean it obviously means that we're having moderators impose their opinions on the photography, but at the same time that would happen anyways.
That said, I'm still wary about the ACTUAL execution of making a thread like this, as we WANT to get women shooters involved in our community, and reach out to prospective shooters, and without the stigma of objectifying them just because they're holding guns.
karmapolice
06-11-10, 12:32
It might work but would require such a high tempo of active moderation it's probably not worth it. Because someone would have to go through all the photos which would be time consuming and then they would have to watch the thread its self like a hawk for tasteless comments. I think that it would create a big brother environment that could have a negative affect on the rest of the board even though that type of thread would justify and need that level of moderator activity.
Outlander Systems
06-11-10, 12:34
...without the stigma of objectifying them just because they're holding guns.
This is the biggest hurdle to get over.
karmapolice
06-11-10, 12:37
I think the biggest hurdle is the stigma of them being objectified because they are women let alone with or without a firearm.
I think the biggest hurdle is the stigma of them being objectified because they are women let alone with or without a firearm.
You're correct, I didn't word my last post as specific as I should have.
It's hard to drag a girlfriend to the range (from my experience) without her getting looks because she's A) a lady and B) at a male dominated activity.
Even though she can run a gun faster than most of the dudes there.
Outlander Systems
06-11-10, 12:42
I think the biggest hurdle is the stigma of them being objectified because they are women let alone with or without a firearm.
You're right. Sticking a heater in their hands is like pouring gasoline on the flame.
It all hinges upon whether or not M4C is attempting to attract female participation.
The only way I could see this working is with a subforum, female mod, and a complete and total bullshit-free policy. (Bullshit = "Hey, nice "rails" wanna "shoot" type of sophomoric nonsense.)
karmapolice
06-11-10, 12:51
You're right. Sticking a heater in their hands is like pouring gasoline on the flame.
It all hinges upon whether or not M4C is attempting to attract female participation.
The only way I could see this working is with a subforum, female mod, and a complete and total bullshit-free policy. (Bullshit = "Hey, nice "rails" wanna "shoot" type of sophomoric nonsense.)
I agree with that.
Y'all both are correct in what you've said, I have experienced it from knowing female shooters, working in a gun store, etc. It's a tough case it can be done it's just going to take the three p's if done (patience, presence, and persistence).
I don't think this is a good idea, and it's not in keeping with what I expect from this website. And I'm not seeing how it would at all be welcoming to female users. No matter what higher purpose the creation of the thread would serve initially, the majority of the views will simply be guys ogling women. And I think moderation would be tedious at best.
Now, having a women's section may be a good idea, in which they could start their own picture thread if they so desired. However, I don't think that even that is necessary. Especially in light of the extra work the mods are doing to work on cleaning up this site.
Based on what I watched happen when a pic of a women was posted in another thread I would say absolutely NOT! TOS has plenty, please don't turn this into that. The only remote possibility would be no comments allowed...
It amazes me sometimes to see the comments. Its as if some guys have never seen an attractive women before...
I'm not in favor, considering that we ideally want full professional participation from women at m4carbine.
That said, if it did go forward, I doubt it would make things much worse than what we already have with some of the trashy avatars.
Stick, you are a respected guy here. Therefore I suspect that if you would have just started a classy thread depicting such a theme it would have gone relatively un-noticed for the most part. I think so, that is.
But now that we have this very fair discussion taking place, your idea may have done itself in. So to speak.
:)
But now that we have this very fair discussion taking place, your idea may have done itself in. So to speak.
It's easier to ask for forgiveness then permission...
After a few hours of sleep and some further thought, I am now also against a dedicated thread of girls-n-guns. It further detracts from what this site is and is guaranteed to go downhill quick.
However; If Stick, as well as others here who are professional or skilled photographers posted their next latest and greatest with a model tastefully integrated into the picture it would be fine. I'm all for it.
Carbine on the rocks, carbine on the gear, carbine in the mud, carbine in action, carbine in the hand of a beautiful woman.....nothing wrong with that.
Honestly, now that I think about it, I kind of agree. Frankly chicks with guns are great, but at some point it's counter productive to bringing in women to OUR community.
lol.:cool:
lol.:cool:
I just re-read that and it sounds hilariously retarded.
I meant stylized photos of women and guns. I'm all for women taking up the sport, hobby, lifestyle. But it's hard to say "come to M4C, and then have a photo thread that could be interpreted as degrading."
thopkins22
06-11-10, 23:46
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on it, but M4C is already one of the only firearms forums where females would be welcome and respected and I can only think of 2 openly female members, MissDebbie, and Grey Group Help(Ramia.)
I guess I just seriously doubt we'll ever see a significant influx of female members, with or without a female picture thread.
If you need a pic fix, the Sniper's Hide Wive's and Girlfriends thread is pretty decent.
I'm the guilty party on this one.
There is a locked thread down on Training and Tactics that ( in hindsight ) might have been useful IF the sound had been permanantly muted. It seems like the classic rock song seriously detracts from any training value and invites TOSish replies.
The subject of the thread is " Coaching a Petite Female ...".
Might not hurt if some members looked at it with the audio muted.
NCPatrolAR
06-12-10, 17:40
I think it would be a bad move and would create more issues that must be dealt with.
I also don't care to see posts made with women modeling with guns for product announcements. I know why it's done but it wouldn't add anything to M4C
Army Chief
06-12-10, 21:11
I would like to see a greater number of lady shooters of all ages feel welcome in internet venues such as M4C. I support any thread that garners their interest, membership, and participation. I fear that a thread featuring gals with guns, and the comments therein, would ultimately descend into pseudo-erotica objectifying women more than promoting their interest in the shooting sports, and reinforce negative male stereotypes.
Sum: If it goes forward, it needs to be professional, tasteful, devoid of assclownery, and well moderated.
Absolutely. While the idea sounds innocuous enough, these kinds of threads invariably go downhill fast (since we all have different standards of what constitutes "the line"), and I'm concerned about the risk versus return factor. I'm not sure what we stand to gain here, but it seems to me that there is potentially a lot to lose.
We post pictures of guys on the firing line, etc., all of the time, and I think it is appropriate and relevant to show women in precisely the same context. I'm somewhat less persuaded that this belongs in a dedicated thread, and I think it would be uncomfortable if this went too far down the path of the sexy and provocative -- and let's face it, there are many in the group that would gladly take us as far down that path as we would dare to go.
Love the ladies, but I can do without a cheesecake thread. Every time I've seen one of these play out before, you end up with a couple of guys posting pictures of some unusually lovely wives and girlfriends, which invariably leads to a host of inane comments from other members, which usually results in more photos. Before you know it, we have a thinly-veiled beauty contest on our hands, and the thread has little or nothing to do with lady shooters, and a whole lot to do with gawking at other people's love interests. Pass.
AC
It'll be NotTotallyWorkFreindly, and a bit of a moderation liability...
I'm all for it, and will need to contribute in short order.
Failure2Stop
06-13-10, 00:41
More than enough places on the net for that stuff.
This is M4Carbine.net, the most professional and technical open forum on the net. Why lose that?
Of course, anyone can feel free to PM the pics to try to convince me otherwise.
Absolutely not.
I have watched the SNR decrease (in my option) since I have found this forum, to the point that I am starting to spend more time over on Weapons Evolutions. I come here for research and to learn about my hobby and I do not see any good coming out of this. I would like to see more females in this sport/hobby/line of work, but I don’t think any good would come out of this. I would love to be proven wrong.
How about “People in our shooting Community”? Its non-sexes could be used for LEO, DOD, hobbyist, competition shooters and what other groups I may be leaving out. Not for females, but for all of us to include the female gender.
That I could get into.
(Rant off and climbing into the fireproof suit)
I think the occasional "cheeky" photo is okay. Stickman slips those in once in a while, but making a thread and saying "okay, go for it guys" just seems like a quick trip to 'thread locksville'
Of course, anyone can feel free to PM the pics to try to convince me otherwise.
you better foward them to me too.
RogerinTPA
06-13-10, 08:44
Perhaps a gender neutral photo thread would be best without turning off prospective ladies and wives, for products (guns/gear tasteful model pics) and forum members (tasteful family, wives, kids, girlfriends pics) on the line, shooting and posing gear.
While we are at it, maybe an active recruitment is in order to attract female shooters from across the shooting spectrum and not just the tactical environment. A women's specific forum where all could contribute, to address their concerns, interest and Moded by a woman, would help the evolution process.
BUT absolutely no Gay pic forums!:p
I think the occasional "cheeky" photo is okay. Stickman slips those in once in a while, but making a thread and saying "okay, go for it guys" just seems like a quick trip to 'thread locksville'
QFT..
Mr.Anderson
06-30-10, 13:08
Well guys... not to get off topic, being a pic thread and all - but, here is MY opinion/feelings on this topic;
I'm both engaged and a Christian...
So, the girl and guns pics have no appeal to me. I use my laptop where everyone can see it and I have been worried a couple of times my young girls would walk by and see it. I will tell ya, I would be most embarrassed not to mention in big trouble if my 'Ol Lady would see it.
I would have a hard time proving that I wasn't checking it out
So, perhaps, MY suggestion (for what little it may be worth) is a dedicated thread.
Guys, really, you don't have to be crazy about one to be crazy about the other
We can still be MEN! and WARRIORS! w/out lusting after flesh
Now, I know this isn't what the majority of you probably would want to hear, but it is just my opinion. And, w/out starting to preach, I think exploitation of the female (and male) body has been one of the things that have helped put this country in the mess it is in.
out
---
THAT is what I just posted in the pic thread.
I'm sure I'll get razzed for it. So, I went back and was going to delete the post, but then I thought, well, there is a pic of a scantily clad female IN that thread, so I left it. Not that it would have mattered I was unable to delete the post anyways.
Obviously, MY personal beliefs will not be shared by all (nay, I would say, very few) but if there was a DEDICATED thread for such ... matter ... then, of course, I could have the option of NOT looking.
But when I'm scrolling down the PIC thread (and I started at page 1) and there is the before mentioned scantily clad female, well... I've already addressed that point. And, the pic was never removed FROM that thread.
Just my .02
regards
Every time I've seen one of these play out before, you end up with a couple of guys posting pictures of some unusually lovely wives and girlfriends, which invariably leads to a host of inane comments from other members, which usually results in more photos. Before you know it, we have a thinly-veiled beauty contest on our hands, and the thread has little or nothing to do with lady shooters, and a whole lot to do with gawking at other people's love interests.
True statement. I'll admit to participating after having a few beers one night... whoops! :eek: I think you're better off having a "M4C'ers/people shooting guns thread" with legitimate shooting going on, or even posing, pictures. If it's a cute girl shooting or posing with a gun I don't think there's any harm as long as people aren't posting just girlie shots for the sake of showing T&A.
Not to mention the guys that will look at a picture of a woman who is less than super-model attractive and just have to say something ignorant to the poster who may be married/dating this woman or it may be his daughter. Some women are as ugly as some of us men and even though when pictures of us men go up we are not often commented on for our beer belly or croocked teeth, you can bet any photos of our women would be scrutinized publically and feelings will be hurt.
My wife was once very young, thin and sexy.... but after 20 years of being married and 3 kids later, she is not the same physically as she once was. I would not want to post her picture here for others to insult.... she knows her flaws, she does not need to be publically thrashed over it. I love my wife very much, and I would not want to see her being insulted by anyone.
I can't see it working out in a friendly mannor because you can't stop some folks from saying hurtfull things.
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