View Full Version : Are A-Zoom (Pachmayer) Handgun Snap Caps Quality? Concerned How Mine Are Wearing.
Bought a set of .40 cal A-Zoom snap caps on Gunbroker that don't seem to be ideal for my handgun. This because they are becoming worn (red paint pushed off) and even slightly jagged around the false case mouth opening where it is met by the false bullet.
Basically it is getting pushed into the chamber and is becoming worn in a peculiar and somewhat concerning way. Is this normal, or should I not have gone with A-Zoom perhaps?
To clarify, I am not worried about scratching my snap caps a bit. But they are metal so it is the potential damage to my chamber I am concerned with having never really used snap caps.
If this belongs in ammunition, my apologies. Not sure if this may be a handgun specific issue or not.
I believe that Jeff Gonzales will not allow A-zooms in his classes (he requires 5 inert rounds) for your reasons and others.
These are what he suggested instead (http://www.stactionpro.com/223-cal-556mm-action-trainer-dummy-rounds-p-6.html).
Yeah, their wear characteristics are somewhat lacking.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9629/img0221fo.jpg
willowofwisp
06-12-10, 18:47
my .45 acp snap caps are getting pretty beat up too.
arizona98tj
06-12-10, 18:50
There is, in my opinion, a difference between snap caps and dummy rounds, although many folks consider them the same. Dummy rounds are commonly used to check the function of the action, magazine, etc. Snap caps, as the name implies, are for pulling the trigger. IMO, snap caps don't perform well as dummy rounds.
Yeah, their wear characteristics are somewhat lacking.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9629/img0221fo.jpg
Well mine aren't there yet John, but that is where they are quickly headed. And again, it's only the impacting of the front of the case opening into the chamber face that concerns me due to the potential damage.
Rob, thanks for the great link. They will be my next buy, in fact maybe tonight.
However I can't help but wonder if anything that we use over and over won't end up the same. In other words, is it a fit issue or simply an inevitable wear issue? And what may or may not be the long term consequences to the chamber?
My 9mm A-Zooms have worn just as described/shown above.
My 9mm A-Zooms have worn just as described/shown above.
Well if that's what they all do then I think I may go plastic over metal simply to avoid unnecessary wear. This unless I am missing something, which sometimes happens. :)
Have to think about it, but something about the looks of the ragged edge on the metal cap doesn't sit well with me on a practical level.
Thomas M-4
06-12-10, 19:24
I got some A-zoom snap caps for .223 one is noticeably tight cambering measured the OAL and they are different by .10''
I also suspect the rim thickness is off some what I have not measured it but it does require more force to chamber both of them compared to a standard live round.
I have noticed similar wear on A-Zooms in my G19 and M&P.
I still prefer the A-Zooms to the Triple Ks as they Triple Ks are mostly plastic except at the rim. The rim is brass and wears out too fast for my taste. The A-Zooms last longer though like many other things they simply won't last forever.
The ST Action Pros are NOT snap caps. They are dummy rounds only. They're a very good dummy round, as they provide a good case rim that doesn't rip off as quickly as a plastic dummy will.
If I were really worried about it, I'd take a Dremel paddle flapwheel sander to my A-Zooms to profile the case mouth area a bit.
Mine are wearing the same as well. It's just paint/anodizing though, I'm not too concerned. The plastic primer isn't dimpling too quickly either, and I do a lot of dry firing.
Should I be more concerned? Aluminum is a lot softer than steel, nevermind stuff like cold-hammer forged gun steel.
I used A-Zooms in the late 90s. I got them in 12 gauge, 9mm, .45ACP and .38.
The 12s, 9s and 45s exhibited wear just as you experienced. The 38s did better.
At a pistol class in 2001, the trainer issued STAction Pros for the ball and dummy, as well as malfunction drills. They stood up to a lot of hard use over three days, something I could not see the A-Zooms enduring.
I bought STAction Pros right after the class and never looked back.
For those who intend to use the dummy rounds for practicing with speedloaders, I also found that the A-Zooms tended to stick to the speedloaders a bit. I would always get one or two rounds that would not drop free from the loader even when the reloading technique was properly executed.
The only things worse than the A-Zooms were the all-plastic orange trainer rounds. I couldn't get more than a few dry shots per round before the rims would break.
I have noticed similar wear on A-Zooms in my G19 and M&P...they simply won't last forever.
Same thing here in my G19, though, at anywhere up to 3 bucks a pop, one should be able to expect more.
TheSmiter1
06-13-10, 04:15
One of mine became slightly deformed. I say this because of an unusual experience (I used only this one for a long time, so it got a decent amount of use, but wasn't as worn as the ones pictured in this thread).
It would work fine in my M&P 9 full size. One day I tried it in another gentleman's M&P 9 compact, and it got lodged in the chamber. I also tried it in my Glock 19, and had to use pliers to pull it out of the chamber (managed to disassemble it and got the barrel free). I promptly threw it away. I still have the other four, though.
Should I be more concerned? Aluminum is a lot softer than steel, nevermind stuff like cold-hammer forged gun steel.
This is what I was thinking as well. There is no doubt that less than ideal contact is occurring at the case opening, but the barrel is much harder I know.
Still, think I will try the ones Rob mentioned above and just see how they pan out after some use.
The plastic primer isn't dimpling too quickly either, and I do a lot of dry firing.
This is why I will stick with A-Zooms over competing products. The rubber primer does exactly what you ask a snap cap to do: absorb the energy from the striker to prevent damage. Triple K and similar designs use a brass or other soft metal piece attached to a spring to absorb the energy but it doesn't heal itself like rubber does. So after a few hundred dry fires the Triple Ks have a pocket worn into the primer area which makes me wonder if they're doing the job at all anymore.
ST Action Pros have nothing in the primer pocket and are thus NOT snap caps. They are dummy rounds only.
The yellow or orange plastic dummies actually work as snap caps but they're so lightweight that they deform and break too easily.
Safetyhit, I think you have to call this an inevitable wear item. As pointed out earlier, aluminum is softer than steel and will show wear in this type of situation long before the barrel will. If they *weren't* wearing at the front edge, it'd be an indicator that you have an exceptionally loose chamber, I would think. Obviously they will show wear at the rim from repeated extraction. Again, if I were really worried about the leading edge wear, I'd sand and polish the area around the case mouth.
ROCKET20_GINSU
06-13-10, 16:49
I have the same wear "problems" I see them as disposable items so it doesn't bother me too much. I have not had any problems with the wear on the A Zoom bullet affecting my Glock in anyway, and I have been dry firing heavily with them for the past 3 years or so (rotating A zooms perodically, change out chambered practice bullet ever 2-3 months or so). I typically use the newest AZoom in the actual chamber and use the "older and worn" practice bullets for my reload mags to maintain a realistic mag+bullet profile for reload training.
GU
If they *weren't* wearing at the front edge, it'd be an indicator that you have an exceptionally loose chamber, I would think. Obviously they will show wear at the rim from repeated extraction.
This nails it IMO. Try sticking a round, or a spent shell casing in your barrel outside of the gun. Then try a used snap cap. Note that it's harder to pull the former out. You chamber and extract these things enough times, expect wear. In fact, I'm glad they're wearing and are soft aluminum. I wouldn't want an indestructible snap cap that wore down my feed ramp and chamber.
Honestly, how much can we expect out of these, things? These are relatively soft aluminum being repeatedly shoved into a forged steel chamber. I'd prefer a disposable snap cap taking the brunt of the wear over my barrel. Do we really want a more hardened material for these purposes?
Most of mine are relatively beat up as well, but I use them for a long as they will reliably chamber and extract, and as long as the primer is still doing its job.
And, at least from the picture, the rounds that rob linked to don't have much material in the primer pocket. Are you looking for something for dry firing or a dummy round?
Honestly, how much can we expect out of these, things? These are relatively soft aluminum being repeatedly shoved into a forged steel chamber. I'd prefer a disposable snap cap taking the brunt of the wear over my barrel. Do we really want a more hardened material for these purposes?
Excellent point. However keep in mind that as stated in my first post, after 30 years of shooting I have never owned snap caps. So this thread was meant to hopefully educate both myself and others who may be interested.
And, at least from the picture, the rounds that rob linked to don't have much material in the primer pocket. Are you looking for something for dry firing or a dummy round?
Yet another excellent point. You are on a roll this afternoon. :)
I think the conclusion I will draw here so far is that the A-Zoom rubber primer is not enough to keep the round from being pushed into the barrel with a degree of force, therefore the damage is inevitable and not the result of a poor fit. And since the aluminum is softer than the steel, there should be no wear expected in the chamber.
So I will probably just keep them, but also a close eye on the chamber for any damage.
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