View Full Version : Colt Tactical
Just ran across this (http://www.defensereview.com/colt-defense-launches-colt-tactical-carbinerifle-line-at-shot-show-2010-tactical-guns-accessorized-for-intensive-tactical-training/)!
Anyone heard anything more about when they might actually be launching/available to buy??
:D
William B.
06-14-10, 11:53
I haven't heard anything about the release timeline, but here is a thread that was started about this topic.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45634
I think there MIGHT be another thread on this in the AR GD forum, but the search function isn't working right on my work computer.
A Colt middy with a monolith rail would be the bomb.
I'm sure I said it in the other thread, but if it's like most things Colt they will be a day late, a dollar short, and listen to input from a bizarre choice of "experts".
RAM Engineer
06-14-10, 14:45
This was first mentioned during this years SHOT show. So now almost 6 months later, there is still nothing new. Plus the URL that they registered is dormant and the Facebook page they started has disappeared. Not looking too promising...:rolleyes:
motorolahamm
06-14-10, 17:30
Yes would like to know this myself , contacted colt they had no clue what I was talking about !!!!
Army Chief
06-14-10, 18:50
Colt has definitely established a pattern of joining the party late, and then showing up with new models which often arouse more curiousity than admiration, but what bothers me is that they put so little emphasis into staying relevant for the civil market.
This whole "Colt Tactical" thing is confusing in the extreme. The boys roll into town for the industry's biggest symposium, set up their new displays, hang a few newish/reheated rifles on the wall, float a promising new URL and wait for us to work ourselves up into a lather.
Well, Colt -- here we are. What seems to be the trouble with www.colttactical.com? How is it that you cannot even seem to figure out how to launch a placeholder page? I'll bet you could give a cool poster to a some 14-year-old at Hartford Middle School, and he could have something decent up and running in about an hour.
I could do it in 20 minutes -- and you can keep the poster.
Colt cannot seem to get marketing right, no matter how hard they try. Are they doing this "Colt Tactical" thing, or not? If so, is any of this still going to be relevant by the time they get around to fixing it? Colt is simply too big and too well-established a company to be making these kinds of errors, and the complete lack of follow-through here is simply beyond my comprehension.
AC
I've pretty much heard if you ain't Military or Law Enforcement, Colt doesn't want your business. Too bad.
I've pretty much heard if you ain't Military or Law Enforcement, Colt doesn't want your business. Too bad.
I don't believe that is the case at all.
I don't believe that is the case at all.
I would hope not. I wish they would go back to making Python revolvers personally.
I'm sure Colt wants as much business as they can get.
However, they don't seem to be working particularly hard to make people (or at least myself) consider them over some of the other viable options. They put out some damn fine rifles. So do other companies. What, then, are the other facts that remain that we can use to make our final purchase decision?
Those other "factors" are what steered me towards BCM and slowly away from Colt when I bought my last AR. BCM has the quality, like Colt. However, they also have outstanding customer support and many options/configurations available.
I'd go with Colt if I want a basic M4 clone (6920). However, if I want anything else, especially mid-length, there's simply too many other options to consider.
Sorry to derail the thread with yet another rant. However, it just seems that these Colt Tactical's are a few years behind the curve. What do they bring to the table to make me consider them over something else? Perhaps I'm not the target market.
I've pretty much heard if you ain't Military or Law Enforcement, Colt doesn't want your business. Too bad.
^^^^^ That is HK.
variablebinary
06-16-10, 18:15
I've pretty much heard if you ain't Military or Law Enforcement, Colt doesn't want your business. Too bad.
Negative. I have an arsenal of Colts. 80% of which have never been shot. All purchased as a civilian
Since we're dissing Colt... rant mode.
Colt...
You could own the market if you...
Take am M4 off the military line... and DONT DRILL THE THIRD HOLE... maybe putting a 16" bbl on some...
it's that simple...
We don't want the sear block.. (who's illegally modding their rifles anyway... NOBODY)
.. we don't want your big pins...
we don't want the ton of other stupid shit you do... "just for us"... instead take the money you save not blocking us from doing shit we don't do and lower the asking price... or whatever...
Umm... When is the last time Colt made a Rifle with a sear block?
And they have been using normal pins for what? 2 years now.
Colt makes Rifles the Military wants. They are more than happy to sell Civilian versions to us but they are not going to make Middies, etc.
goodoleboy
06-16-10, 19:51
I don't really know why Colt doesn't market a mid-length monolithic rail carbine. Without doing that they are letting other companies run all over their potential business. With all the current methodology pointing towards better control when driving a weapon on target with a mid-length set-up and a longer grip, they are showing an inability to evolve to better tactics. This means they are failing to meet the demands of many consumers for a modern tactical carbine.
variablebinary
06-16-10, 20:17
Since we're dissing Colt... rant mode.
Colt...
You could own the market if you...
Take am M4 off the military line... and DONT DRILL THE THIRD HOLE... maybe putting a 16" bbl on some...
it's that simple...
We don't want the sear block.. (who's illegally modding their rifles anyway... NOBODY)
.. we don't want your big pins...
we don't want the ton of other stupid shit you do... "just for us"... instead take the money you save not blocking us from doing shit we don't do and lower the asking price... or whatever...
You are terribly misinformed. Please do more research before posting...
Belmont31R
06-16-10, 20:20
I don't really know why Colt doesn't market a mid-length monolithic rail carbine. Without doing that they are letting other companies run all over their potential business. With all the current methodology pointing towards better control when driving a weapon on target with a mid-length set-up and a longer grip, they are showing an inability to evolve to better tactics. This means they are failing to meet the demands of many consumers for a modern tactical carbine.
Why would they do that? The majority of the guns they make go to military. It would add considerable cost and complexity for them to make a relativity very small number of mid length guns for little benefit. They may in the future but its not something I see them jumping on unless the military goes mid length, too.
Colt R&D, production, and related activities are geared to serve the military, export, and government markets. That they only allocate small quantities of production to the commercial side, provide minimal support to that side, and have limited interest in expansion in that market doesn't mean they are anti-commercial, it means they are focused elsewhere.
The commercial side is also finicky, tends to be high maintenance, and is a moving target requiring it's own unique sales, marketing, and support. Why take it on when you've sold every unit you can produce in your focus area before you produce it?
All this isn't unique to Colt. There are other manufacturers in other industries that likewise focus their efforts at a particular segment to the annoyance of others.
There are folks out there that are looking for some great conspiracy behind it all, or who have an axe to grind with Colt. Take a deep breath.
RAM Engineer
06-16-10, 20:45
Since we're dissing Colt... rant mode.
Colt...
You could own the market if you...
Take am M4 off the military line... and DONT DRILL THE THIRD HOLE... maybe putting a 16" bbl on some...
it's that simple...
We don't want the sear block.. (who's illegally modding their rifles anyway... NOBODY)
.. we don't want your big pins...
we don't want the ton of other stupid shit you do... "just for us"... instead take the money you save not blocking us from doing shit we don't do and lower the asking price... or whatever...
They haven't done either of those things for a while.
I will ask the same basic question that I asked in the other thread: What do you guys really expect from Colt?
Let's be realistic. The only things that I can see lacking from their lineup is an LE A4 model, and a flat-top pencil barrel model. It would be cool if they offered some different SOPMOD configurations, but most people don't want a mil. SOPMOD configuration, so the wouldn't sell.
If they configure with stock/rail A people will bitch, if they configure with stock/rail B people will bitch. They are a high production facility, not a custom shop or boutique retailer.
Once again, Colt will never offer a lineup of 1911s like Kimber and never offer the plethora of M4 configurations that BCM does. They make arguably the best base 1911 (S70 re-issue, yeah they listened!) and almost unarguably the most tested and proven base M4 available.
I think Colt is scrambling with this "tactical" nonsense because they don't understand what the hell you people want.
So what do you want?
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
06-16-10, 20:56
Seems like previous posts are correct. They're perhaps too focused on the military contracts (and law enforcement to a lesser extent) to devote too much attention to civilians. Maybe they'll devote more to civilian purchases if all the branches adopt a next gen type rifle and colt loses the m4 family contract? But since the powers that be are always slow in adopting new things, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Just an idea. :confused:
Seems like previous posts are correct. They're perhaps too focused on the military contracts (and law enforcement to a lesser extent) to devote too much attention to civilians. Maybe they'll devote more to civilian purchases if all the branches adopt a next gen type rifle and colt loses the m4 family contract? But since the powers that be are always slow in adopting new things, I doubt that will happen anytime soon. Just an idea. :confused:
I'll ask it again: What do you want Colt to do for civilians that they do not already do? All I hear in any Colt thread are these "they don't care about civies, wait till their contract runs out and they'll see what's what" responses. What are they not doing for civies now that you want?
I would hope not. I wish they would go back to making Python revolvers personally.
At the risk of off-topic thread drift, if I were Colt, I would, in addition to the above:
1) Bring back their line of small 1911 .380's. With more ladies carrying concealed, they would sell all they could make (and men would like them as well).
2) Bring back a Detective Special with a spurless hammer, a 0.050 inch taller partridge style front sight, possibly with a tritium insert, and the option of a short, 2-finger "boot" grip.
3) Offer more variations of their AR's.
Army Chief
06-16-10, 21:10
I want Colt to succeed in this market, and while I follow the sentiments of some here, I don't think that they need to introduce a mid-gas gun to do it. That isn't their thing, and while mid-gas guns are terrific, there is plenty of room in the market for more conventional configurations.
It wasn't so long ago that we couldn't even get our hands on product, so I am disinclined to protest too loudly today; that said, I do think that the front office needs to reexamine their marketing strategies and fix this embarassing Colt Tactical debacle.
AC
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
06-16-10, 21:13
I'll ask it again: What do you want Colt to do for civilians that they do not already do? All I hear in any Colt thread are these "they don't care about civies, wait till their contract runs out and they'll see what's what" responses. What are they not doing for civies now that you want?
Me personally? I'd like to eventually purchase a Colt to complement the other rifles I own. I have been specifically interested in a standard carbine or mid-length profile 16" 1 in 7 barrel (non m4 profile) but, unless I'm mistaken, they don't make it. I imagine they may never make it. For me, I suppose it's just the ability to say I own a rifle made by the original military manufacturer. I'm not knocking them in any way. I'm just suggesting that without a huge contract to worry about, they'll have to look to the civilian sector to increase sales. Either that or try to get another contract.
I will ask the same basic question that I asked in the other thread: What do you guys really expect from Colt?
Let's be realistic. The only things that I can see lacking from their lineup is an LE A4 model, and a flat-top pencil barrel model. It would be cool if they offered some different SOPMOD configurations, but most people don't want a mil. SOPMOD configuration, so the wouldn't sell.
If they configure with stock/rail A people will bitch, if they configure with stock/rail B people will bitch. They are a high production facility, not a custom shop or boutique retailer.
Once again, Colt will never offer a lineup of 1911s like Kimber and never offer the plethora of M4 configurations that BCM does. They make arguably the best base 1911 (S70 re-issue, yeah they listened!) and almost unarguably the most tested and proven base M4 available.
I think Colt is scrambling with this "tactical" nonsense because they don't understand what the hell you people want.
So what do you want?
I want them to either do things like this "tactical" nonsense correctly or not do it at all.
I want them to either do things like this "tactical" nonsense correctly or not do it at all.
I agree with that. People were making some of these same complaints before Colt-Tactical was even imagined though.
I wish they would have just upped production/distribution (and hopefully lowered prices) on their current models.
Me personally? I'd like to eventually purchase a Colt to complement the other rifles I own. I have been specifically interested in a standard carbine or mid-length profile 16" 1 in 7 barrel (non m4 profile) but, unless I'm mistaken, they don't make it. I imagine they may never make it. For me, I suppose it's just the ability to say I own a rifle made by the original military manufacturer. I'm not knocking them in any way. I'm just suggesting that without a huge contract to worry about, they'll have to look to the civilian sector to increase sales. Either that or try to get another contract.
It might be hard for them to re-tool for a specific configuration like that. I do agree that it would be great if Colt would open up more distribution channels for their LE lines to get to civilians. It would be cool to walk into any shop and see as many LEs as you do MTs.
variablebinary
06-16-10, 23:23
It would be cool to walk into any shop and see as many LEs as you do MTs.
That is already the case. MT's are rare to non-existent at all my local dealers
That's good to know. I haven't been shopping in a free state in a year or so.
variablebinary
06-17-10, 00:04
Seems like previous posts are correct. They're perhaps too focused on the military contracts (and law enforcement to a lesser extent) to devote too much attention to civilians
Really?
6520
6721
6920
6921 (Factory SBR)
6933 (Factory SBR
6940 (New to market)
All these are made by Colt Defense and are readily available.
It's true that Colt has hefty obligations. They have to produce 10,000 M4's a month.
However, name any carbine manufacturer with production requirements that high that still manages to sell 6 "LE" models and factory SBR's to civilians. This doesn't include "MT" models
I don't understand all this Colt hate, because they are "dissing" the civvies, because they don't build the exact model you want.
Colt, from its inception has been a military contractor, thus names like..Navy model, Army model, Govt model, Commander, Officer, etc etc.
Last I checked we are fighting a 2 front war. Could you buy a 1911 from Colt during WWII? They, as noted, are focused elsewhere.
Does anyone complain that Lockhead Martin does not produce a single seat prop recreational aircraft?
Colt, has settled on a design, that they are confident in. If you don't like it, why complain, just get it from those that do have what you want.
I'm sure, when the contract expires, they will do what it takes to stay in business, or not, or get a bail out.
I'm also always amused at the calls for various manufactures to bring back some discontinued model.
it was discontinued for a reason, people weren't buying them. And while, it may seem like a huge market, on a firearms board, in reality, its probably a pretty niche market, that's is not feasible to service.
I personally would like to see a 6940 with a fixed front sight and longer rail. They don't make it, so I'll just get a 6940 or DD, and put a DD 9.5 rail on it, and be good
Bob
One think Colt could do is to fire their marketing team, starting with whoever came up wuth the 6720 S/N idiocy :D
Really?
6520
6720
6721
6920
6921 (Factory SBR)
6933 (Factory SBR
6940 (New to market)
All these are made by Colt Defense and are readily available.
It's true that Colt has hefty obligations. They have to produce 10,000 M4's a month.
However, name any carbine manufacturer with production requirements that high that still manages to sell 7 "LE" models and factory SBR's to civilians. This doesn't include "MT" models
Fixed. :D
buddyhoohaw
06-17-10, 06:38
Fixed. :D
With all due respect the 6720 is at least for now a custom run / special order model to one customer. I do hope and expect it will go into a full production model.
Cheers
With all due respect the 6720 is at least for now a custom run / special order model to one customer.
While this may be true, it only becomes even more of an argument showing that Colt does participate in the commercial market. That model was entirely intended for private, civilian-level buyers, not the military.
Colt R&D, production, and related activities are geared to serve the military, export, and government markets. That they only allocate small quantities of production to the commercial side, provide minimal support to that side, and have limited interest in expansion in that market doesn't mean they are anti-commercial, it means they are focused elsewhere.
The commercial side is also finicky, tends to be high maintenance, and is a moving target requiring it's own unique sales, marketing, and support. Why take it on when you've sold every unit you can produce in your focus area before you produce it?
All this isn't unique to Colt. There are other manufacturers in other industries that likewise focus their efforts at a particular segment to the annoyance of others.
There are folks out there that are looking for some great conspiracy behind it all, or who have an axe to grind with Colt. Take a deep breath.
Agreed 110%
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
06-17-10, 13:30
That is already the case. MT's are rare to non-existent at all my local dealers
Pardon my ignorance but what is an MT?
Match Target, Colts non-LE line of AR's
Bob
Since we're dissing Colt... rant mode.
Colt...
You could own the market if you...
Take am M4 off the military line... and DONT DRILL THE THIRD HOLE... maybe putting a 16" bbl on some...
it's that simple...
We don't want the sear block.. (who's illegally modding their rifles anyway... NOBODY)
.. we don't want your big pins...
we don't want the ton of other stupid shit you do... "just for us"... instead take the money you save not blocking us from doing shit we don't do and lower the asking price... or whatever...
Haven't looked at a Colt lately have you? No sear blocks, standard pins, m16 carriers. Where the **** have you been?
RAM Engineer
06-17-10, 14:57
All I want from Colt:
1. 6920, 6921 & 6933 with Colt Canada CHF barrels.
2. 6940 with Colt Canada CHF and the option for 11.5" and 14.5 barrels.
3. A 6940 upper that is an MRE-style 12" rail, if that's possible.
Alright, I'm going to have to apologize in advance for the scope of my ignorance, and appeal to the better nature of this board for help in rectifying it.
Here's what I thought I knew: there are two separate companies--Colt Manufacturing and Colt Defense who split from each other in 2002. Colt Manufacturing has been solely responsible for the weapons available to the general public since then, including all hand guns and MT models. Colt Defense on the other hand has catered exclusively to the military and US law enforcement agencies, producing only military and LE grade rifles, machine guns, and grenade launchers. To the best of my knowledge (which is not saying much) none of Colt Defense's products have been marketed or available for public sale. It seemed to me that the implication of Colt's "Tactical Division" was that they were going to end this long standing convention and begin marketing and distributing military grade AR models.
From reading the responses on this thread, it would seem to me that 1) it is actually Colt Defense and not Colt Manufacturing that produces the MT models (though this one I'm particularly curious about seeing as they are marketed on the Colt Manufacturing website); 2) the LE models that Colt Defense has been producing are, in fact, available for public sale and/or use; 3) Colt Defense is still producing M-4s for the US Gov in large quantities despite the fact that their sole-source contract expired in June, 2009 and the military has publicly solicited bids for M-4 replacements.
Finally, my last appeal is more of a general one--it seems that the general consensus is that the Colt Tactical line has been a very botched attempt; seeing as I've been out of the country and am only now finding out about it, I would appreciate if someone could enlighten me as to 1) why it was so significant in the first place if Colt was already producing publicly available ARs (1a what is the (basic, non-technical) difference between the military, le and mt versions); 2) how has it been botched? just by announcing and not following up with it?; 3) does anyone actually have any hard information on whether or not they are still planning on launching it?
I know this is a lot to ask, but there seem to be some fairly knowledgeable people on this board. Also, this is a place for people who enjoy discussing this topic, so hopefully someone will favor me with an answer or five.
coltuser,
A few years back, i contacted a Colt rep that posted on a 1911 centric forum. From what I understand he no longer works there, but this is the gist of what he told me regarding the AR's, and I've posted it here before...
They are two separate companies.
Match targets are made by Colt Defense, fro Colt Manufacturing
With the exception of the obvious differences, IE no bayonet lug, 1x9 barrel on some, fixed stocks and no flash suppressors, they are the same guns.
Every bolt in every weapon is MPI tested
Production of MT must be scheduled to fit in between production of LE and military guns, therefore their intermittent availability.
Colt manufacturing continues to market only "ban style" guns, due to states that still have a ban in effect, and they do not wish to market two separate lines. I suppose would could surmise, they may not want to compete with Colt Defense, either.
That's about what I can remember from his e-mail.
Obviously, Colt Defense products, have been available, all along,as many of us have Colt Defense LE6920's, and other models of theirs.
It would appear that Colt Tactical, was an attempt by Colt Defense to simply offer some aftermarket upgrades to their guns, straight from the factory.
Personally, I think there are to many options and user preferences to make everyone happy. Build a solid gun, that allows for upgrades, at a fair price, simple enough.
Bob
RAM Engineer
06-17-10, 15:26
Personally, I think there are to many options and user preferences to make everyone happy. Build a solid gun, that allows for upgrades, at a fair price, simple enough.
Agreed. But use Colt Canada CHF barrels. ;)
Obviously, Colt Defense products, have been available, all along,as many of us have Colt Defense LE6920's, and other models of theirs.
Are the Colt Defense LE models (6920 /6940 etc.) only marketed to LE agencies but also made available to the public by some distibutors (just like the Remington 700 LTR series rifles) or is Colt also actively marketing / seeking to sell these LE rifles to the public? Just wondering since at one point it was nearly impossible to get a 6920 while they seem to pop up everywhere as of lately.
I do not think they are "actively" marketing towards non LE's, but they are available.
I think the unavailability of them, for awhile, had much to do with production capacity/schedules, and war time demand, then any real restrictions on sales.
Bob
I do not think they are "actively" marketing towards non LE's, but they are available.
I think the unavailability of them, for awhile, had much to do with production capacity/schedules, and war time demand, then any real restrictions on sales.
Bob
That is what I had heard too. The recent influx / surplus made me wonder if things had changed but it's probably just an excess production / lower demand thing.
Belmont31R
06-17-10, 16:21
Agreed. But use Colt Canada CHF barrels. ;)
Buy an SR15, and it comes with a Colt Canada barrel. At least that was the word at one point from KAC.
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