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Anyone care to educate me a little?
My wife has been wanting a "nice" camera for a few years. Our 10th anniversary is coming up in a couple of weeks and I was thinking of surprising her with a DSLR for the occasion. However, I know less than nothing about cameras.
I was looking at a Canon T1i or a Nikon D5000. Are these good cameras? Anything I should know about either, or anything that would make one more desirable than the other?
As this will be her first "real" camera, I'm not looking to drop a grand, and I would like it to come with at least a standard lens. I'd like to keep it less than $7-800. If she starts to "out shoot" the camera, we'll look to upgrade her down the road. This will be a for fun, and family photos camera.
Thanks!
-RD62
I am a Nikon guy. However Cannon makes equally good Cameras.
My personal rig is a D90. I looked at the D5000 but I needed the ability to use older lenses and the D5000 can only use the newer glass since it doesn't have an AF motor in the body.
The biggest problem you are going to find with the D5000 or T1i is the lens that comes with them. Both use a 18-55 with a fairly high f-stop for the focal length. Ok to get started but you will need to buy a better lens to really benefit from quality cameras like these.
Between the two you could pretty much flip a coin. Yes the Cannon has a sensor that has a higher pixel density but we are getting into the obscene here and well past the point of diminishing returns.
If I may suggest, try to find a used body only and get a 18-105 lens. You should still come in on your target budget and have a very nice setup.
Oh and if he doesn't comment on here you may want to PM stik. He knows more than most of us put together about such things.
Thanks for the suggestions. Is there a reputable place to look for used bodies? As I don't really know anything about them I don't want to by a POS or someone else's problem because I don't know any better.
Again this purchase is for someone else who doesn't really know anything about these cameras either. I'm looking into finding her a class to take this summer too.
I'm kinda hoping Stick will chime in too.
-RD62
I have a couple local shops I get all my stuff from. Can't say where the best place to look in your area.
For new you could always check out B&H. They normally have some of the best prices out there. As for local sources, have you tried CL or your local flea market? I've picked up a few from there. There is always fleabay as well.
Kewlz, thanks for the heads up about the D5000's not having the AF in the body. Right now I am getting into 360 degree panoramic photography for my business (real estate) and was looking for a new body.
Gutshot John
06-15-10, 23:02
Do you have an existing 35mm SLR?
I'd stick with the same brand since lenses are more interchangeable. Check to be sure.
Kwelz gave some excellent advice. The D90 is a nice civilian camera but may be intimidating for the novice. A used D50/D70 might be a better choice for a better price point.
PS. You can buy a used camera body but DO NOT buy used lenses.
This guy knows his stuff:
www.kenrockwell.com
This guy knows his stuff:
www.kenrockwell.com
Ken Rockwell is the biggest blowhard jackass in the business. Everything he says should be taken with exactly 2,752.3 pounds of the best salt you can find. In fact, just mentioning his name will get your post deleted on some forums.
I don't recommend a body without a focus motor, so for Nikon, you should be looking at the D90. It's got good resolution, good high-ISO performance, and the ability to use almost every Nikon lens made. It's also due to be replaced with a new whiz-bang model soon, so the price is getting better by the day. Yes, it's out of your posted price range, but you're buying something that will probably stay ahead of your skill level for a long time. You can probably find one on craigslist or ebay if you really want to keep the price down. Don't be afraid of buying used. Good lenses are generally tough and most people never actually use them much. You can see the life of a camera body with one look at the EXIF data in a JPG file from it. If you buy face-to-face you can try it before you buy it, so less danger of getting ripped off. The D5000 would be the Bushmaster and the D90 is the Colt. (The D3x is like those drug lord guns) :D
I believe Stickman shoots the Canon 1DS3, so he can probably steer you right with that brand. Canon definitely has some damn fine product. I just speak for what I know, and that happens to be Nikon.
ETA: Wally World (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nikon-D90-Digital-SLR-Kit/10727522?sourceid=1500000000000003142050&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=10727522) of all places has the D90 body for a nice price.
avoid ken rockwell !!!!
I make my living with cameras ?
I shoot 1D* 1DS* and 5D* models been making a good living at digital a long time and also have a post production company
to toot my horn in the color knowledge of digital I am like LV !!!
proofing on anything other than NEC or EIZO is junk to my eyes kinda guy !
the thing about cameras is they are like a chefs pans ! great pans dont make the chef and while they help its a small part when you get into it
put a basic camera in my hands and I can do better than most with a 1DS*
think if you had a noveske and some guy like LV had a bushmaster would that mean you are better now and he now sucks :) NOPE
just saying this so you dont get to hung up on the gear
think of any of the nikon or canon as say LMT or Noveske who has price ranges a basic LMT might not be as cool as a MRP but still going to be a nice setup so even though its lower dont worry to much and get what fits the budget and has a few features you want
the two cameras you mentioned are nice setups to get her feet wet and see if she enjoys it
with your budget nice glass will be out their in price
the one exception are some prime lens setups meaning a fixed focal length
since I am more familiar with canon lens like the 50mm 1.4 or the 85 1.8 are really nice glass and can make a camera shoot much nicer photos than a kit lens which just means a wide range less expensive lens usually bundled with a camera ?
again dont get to hung up for fun stuff on everything as carrying a bunch of lens's around becomes a chore then you tend not to carry it around etc..
think of it like guns and getting to much stuff learn the basics first :)
again start with the lens it will come with and go from their :)
I would stick to newer cameras the sensors do a better job at higher ISO than some of the older cameras and even though a body might be less money used and be at one time a better body ? unless you get into the full frame sensors most all the APS-c sensors are about the same
also I think the t2i is out now ? and most likely a touch better :) I have heard the video is improved quite a bit in the new t2 over the t1
not sure how it compares to the nikon ?
I might get a canon over nikon in entry level stuff cause it might put out a touch better image ? remember canon is HUGE compared to nikon they put as much into advertising and nikon makes !! kinda big and they do a good job again both are fine and it comes down to features
I used to shoot nikon to :) so I dont care to much which brand they are both pros and cons and both very good
the other nice thing about newer bodies is the video capabilities I mentioned quickly
do a bit of research here as some wont focus on things using auto focus with moving subjects etc.. their are some limits and like anything more money buys you more features
the video stuff is actually really good they shot a HOUSE episode on a 5D* and shoot commercials on them now etc..
so do a touch of research on the video side of them cause for kids and stuff that can be really cool !!!
but again I dont know all the basic cameras but I do know some have wierd video limits so check that out !!!!
also I buy most everything through BH Photo they are great with returns etc..
costco also has some decent price setups so worth checking with them and they have a great return policy ?
IF you can get her to handle some cameras first ! that is best see what she like fits her hands makes sense to her with dials and button location etc.. but if you cant dont worry about it to much :)
My vote is for canon, I still use a Rebel XTi, they have since released 14 other bodies in its place. The way it takes pictures is the same as the new ones, so find a brand and stick with it, for one reason or another. One item to consider is if you have $1000 to spend, $600 should be on a lens. I played with a camera a guy at work just got, he spent $1000 on a package with a T1i and a few lenses. His body is amazing, it can do more technically, but he will be limited with his glass very shortly.
You need to establish what you want to take pics of primarily. For me, it is all around and perhaps some action from close. Low light is nice, I dont use a flash. This had me getting a 50mm f1.8 ($85) and a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 ($450) to put on a $300 body.
A valuable site I found was www.the-digital-picture.net. He is a Canon guy, but there are tons of side by side pics using different lenses and he goes into detail about the tradeoffs of all of them. He is not the type that will tell you to throw the kit lens away, but rather just show you what it does relative to other lenses.
Gutshot John
06-16-10, 07:23
Don't be afraid of buying used. Good lenses are generally tough and most people never actually use them much. You can see the life of a camera body with one look at the EXIF data in a JPG file from it. If you buy face-to-face you can try it before you buy it, so less danger of getting ripped off.
All of that is the minimum you should do if you're considering buying a used lens. But even still many flaws will not reveal themselves in an image file and can only be seen in a print format. Ask me how I know
Yes many owners rarely if ever use them, but most rarely if ever take care of them properly when they do use them.
If it's from someone you know and trust than that will probably be ok. Buying online you rarely have the opportunity to try before you buy.
For myself, and many photographers both amateur or pro, buying a used lens is a no-go.
Honu- what would you recommend for a compact P&S with good zoom and low indoor light? I have a Fuji F30 that rocks but I need more zoom.
What do you think of the reviews on Steves-digicams?
If it's from someone you know and trust than that will probably be ok. Buying online you rarely have the opportunity to try before you buy.
Agreed.
I don't advocate just snapping one up from any old guy off of ebay, but it's certainly not a problem if you ask the right questions first. It's no different than buying a used gun, really. You just have to know how to find those little demons hiding in there. :D There are some knowledgeable people out there who are happy to help with stuff like this, myself included. I hate seeing people get screwed.
There are a few good photography forums out there, also. You might try joining up and see if there are some gun-friendly photographers in your area. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to help you out. Fred Miranda (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum) is probably photography's equivalent to this site. The hippie ratio can be high at times, but most of the members know what they're talking about.
I'm not saying that Ken Rockwell is a good or bad person, (I don't know him). However, his examination of SLR's,DSLR's, lenses and comparisons are a good guide to figuring out what may or may not suit your needs....
Not a big fan of Rockwell myself. I actually really like dpreview.com for info on cameras.
We still use the Canon Rebel XT, and it takes pretty damn good pictures for my purposes. At the recent Grey Group Class, Josh was shooting with it and you can see the photos in the AAR in Grey Group's section.
He wasn't doing anything special, that I know of, and was able to get some good action sequences just pressing as fast as he could.
We got the Rebel XT back when they were $799, but I think you can get them now for $499. All our Canon SLR lenses worked on the XT just fine.
Canon XSi kit and a good lens brought seperatly would be a good choice, and the T2i kit would be an excellent choice. I have the XS and I like it a lot, used it since Jan and I took a photography class with it and did just fine. I'd either get the body only and the good lens, or just the one with the one kit lens (18-55). Save up and do a lot of research before purchasing higher grade lenses. The 18-55 kit lens will produce passable pictures...at this stage, technique is a lot more important than anything else. Shooting on automatic (green box) means you definitley won't get what you want out of a DSLR. Learn to shoot in your manual modes and how to make the right decision (I flip to automatic for shots I don't have time to set up for, run on manual/partially manual otherwise). I do OK.
The lens packages that come with these cameras are very entry level, so those "packages" that come with two lenses for a couple hundred more than the camera aren't that great.
Canons and older lens integration. Canon digitals use the EOS system, and thus EOS lens work with them. Canon FD lenses do not. This is a bit of a shame, because I have a nice three piece set of FD lenses sitting in my other camera bag.
And you thought firearms were expensive...
I love my Nikon D200 and will always be a Nikon guy, but Canon makes one hell of a camera.
As said before, if you're going to go with a Nikon body, get at least a D90. A doog quality used D200 would be a great steup up but it does not have the pre-programed modes that a point and shoot or the D90 would have like Portrait, Landscape, Nightshot and the likes.
Same thing for a Canon, do not get a body that will limit your lens choice.
I would also recoment buying the body alone, a 18-55 F3.5-56 lens that most of the bodies come with will only collect dust. It will be like buying a AR and replacing the stock only to have it sit in the closet. Might as well buy the rifle w/o a stock, not waste the money and get what u want.
I would always recoment a 50mm F1.4 lens for all those begining in photography. It is a very fast, clear lens that will teach you the fundamentals of taking a good shot better than any other lens on the market today. W/o zoom you will learn how to shoot better and how to frame your hot using your body positioning rather than just turning the zoom ring. Plus, it works well indoors and outdoors, flash or no flash and is not terribly exoencive. After that you can move onto a 17-55F2.8 or similar.
I would always recoment a 50mm F1.4 lens for all those begining in photography. I
Canon has the excellent Nifty Fifty for pretty cheap.
Gutshot John
06-16-10, 17:56
I would always recoment a 50mm F1.4 lens for all those begining in photography. It is a very fact, clear lens that will teach you the fundamentals of taking a good shot better than any other lens on the market today. W/o zoom you will learn how to shoot better and how to frame your hot using your body positioning rather than just turning the zoom ring. Plus, it works well indoors and outdoors, flash or no flash and is not terribly exoencive. After that you can move onto a 17-55F2.8 or similar.
This is some of the best advice I've seen in this thread.
I'm not attempting to steer you away from a DSLR but you might want to consider one of the new "mega-zoom" compact cameras. You mentioned for fun and family photos and that's typically what we use ours for now.
I used to shoot old school film SLR cameras and loved doing it and was seriously considering the swap to digital until I did a bit more research. I ended up purchasing the Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3 and suggest you have a look at those prior to purchasing. The main competitor to the Panny is the Canon PowerShot SX200 IS.
What's nice about them is you get an excellent picture quality, for the layman, and you don't have to end up buying & toting lots of expensive lenses. The zoom on these cameras is quite impressive and you can also record HD video with stereo sound. If anything it opens up an affordable option that you might be able to use in conjunction with what you're currently using.
The first day I had the camera I was goofing around by Red Rock and took 3 sample photos without a tripod. Just hand held and not taking my time as we were in a hurry but this will give you an idea. Just put it on auto, no idea of the other settings... 1st is no magnification, 2nd is full optical zoom and 3rd is with digital zoom. If you're interested I have a few more shots with and without magnification to give you a better idea of the capabilities. Best of luck!
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/966/picture085jn.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6080/picture086oz.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6906/picture087.jpg
I'm not attempting to steer you away from a DSLR but you might want to consider one of the new "mega-zoom" compact cameras. You mentioned for fun and family photos and that's typically what we use ours for now.
I used to shoot old school film SLR cameras and loved doing it and was seriously considering the swap to digital until I did a bit more research. I ended up purchasing the Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3 and suggest you have a look at those prior to purchasing. The main competitor to the Panny is the Canon PowerShot SX200 IS.
What's nice about them is you get an excellent picture quality, for the layman, and you don't have to end up buying & toting lots of expensive lenses. The zoom on these cameras is quite impressive and you can also record HD video with stereo sound. If anything it opens up an affordable option that you might be able to use in conjunction with what you're currently using.
The first day I had the camera I was goofing around by Red Rock and took 3 sample photos without a tripod. Just hand held and not taking my time as we were in a hurry but this will give you an idea. Just put it on auto, no idea of the other settings... 1st is no magnification, 2nd is full optical zoom and 3rd is with digital zoom. If you're interested I have a few more shots with and without magnification to give you a better idea of the capabilities. Best of luck!
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/966/picture085jn.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6080/picture086oz.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6906/picture087.jpg
That's a pretty impressive digital zoom.
I think she'd be disappointed if I didn't get her the DSLR, and well that's kinda the point and all.
I'm gonna get her a class this summer at the local tech college so she can learn to use it to more of it's potential before I start with multiple lenses, etc.
I'm currently leaning toward the Canon T1i.
-RD62
That's a pretty impressive digital zoom.
I think she'd be disappointed if I didn't get her the DSLR, and well that's kinda the point and all. -RD62
Cool, just throwing out some more options. Good luck!
I had to throw up one more picture my dad took using the Canon I mentioned earlier. No tripod but it does have image stabilization along with a bitchin' zoom and I was quite impressed. And you can stick it in a jacket pocket! Sorry for the thread drift.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8139/moonu.jpg
Canon has the excellent Nifty Fifty for pretty cheap.
The f1.4 is a not as cheap, but you can have the f1.8 which is only 1/3 stop slower for under $100 and it it still an excelent lens!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
There is also a Sigma lens which is I believe 30mm f1.4 or f1.8 which whill give you an equivalent 50mm in the cropped Canon/Nikon format.
This is some of the best advice I've seen in this thread.
Thank ya!
When I took architectural photography in college we were told we can only use B&W silver gel. film, and only 50mm lens the entire term. That lens tought me more about photography than anything else could ever have. Got an A in the class too ;)
That's a pretty impressive digital zoom.
I think she'd be disappointed if I didn't get her the DSLR, and well that's kinda the point and all.
I'm gonna get her a class this summer at the local tech college so she can learn to use it to more of it's potential before I start with multiple lenses, etc.
I'm currently leaning toward the Canon T1i.
-RD62
Digital zoom is a NONO. Fun on a cell phone, but its basicaly like taking a small portion of the photo and blowing it up, you will loose pixel count VERY quickly. Its a gimmic, and one that should never be used once the camera is purchased.
The glass is an awesome idea! Why buy glass if its not the glass she needs right? If she feels that she wants to shoot wildlife then why get a wide angle elsn for $1K? Get a 200-400VR [Nikon] IS[Canon and go nuts! If she wants to shoot purtraits you get a lens better suited for that, 50mm f1.4 or a 60something Macro. And so on.
I think its best to know what you enjoy shooting most first, then buy the glass that best suits your goals, rather than buying glass left and right only to have to adapt the gear to the use. Same idea as all the stuff we talk about on here for our rifles, and just as expencive. If I counted up the $ I have in glass and camera I could have had a number of Noveske boom-sticks lol.
The f1.4 is a not as cheap, but you can have the f1.8 which is only 1/3 stop slower for under $100 and it it still an excelent lens!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
There is also a Sigma lens which is I believe 30mm f1.4 or f1.8 which whill give you an equivalent 50mm in the cropped Canon/Nikon format.
Thank ya!
When I took architectural photography in college we were told we can only use B&W silver gel. film, and only 50mm lens the entire term. That lens tought me more about photography than anything else could ever have. Got an A in the class too ;)
Digital zoom is a NONO. Fun on a cell phone, but its basicaly like taking a small portion of the photo and blowing it up, you will loose pixel count VERY quickly. Its a gimmic, and one that should never be used once the camera is purchased.
The glass is an awesome idea! Why buy glass if its not the glass she needs right? If she feels that she wants to shoot wildlife then why get a wide angle elsn for $1K? Get a 200-400VR [Nikon] IS[Canon and go nuts! If she wants to shoot purtraits you get a lens better suited for that, 50mm f1.4 or a 60something Macro. And so on.
I think its best to know what you enjoy shooting most first, then buy the glass that best suits your goals, rather than buying glass left and right only to have to adapt the gear to the use. Same idea as all the stuff we talk about on here for our rifles, and just as expencive. If I counted up the $ I have in glass and camera I could have had a number of Noveske boom-sticks lol.
I have the 50mm f1.8, it serves its purpose, I think I want the f1.4 though. It is very refreshing to use at times, as it is easy to take great pictures. Not having a zoom forces that, I feel (speaking from a non-photographer POV).
One thing I despise though is the back and forth between FF and crop sensor focal lengths and such. I know a 50mm as I use it on my crop sensor (1.6) and that is it. I know a few film guys who want to go all over the place when we discuss this stuff and it accomplishes nothing. I want the 70-200mm f2.8 because it has the reach I want on my 1.6x body, not because it is 320mm equivalent or something like that.
The f1.4 is a not as cheap, but you can have the f1.8 which is only 1/3 stop slower for under $100 and it it still an excelent lens!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
There is also a Sigma lens which is I believe 30mm f1.4 or f1.8 which whill give you an equivalent 50mm in the cropped Canon/Nikon format.
Thank ya!
When I took architectural photography in college we were told we can only use B&W silver gel. film, and only 50mm lens the entire term. That lens tought me more about photography than anything else could ever have. Got an A in the class too ;)
Digital zoom is a NONO. Fun on a cell phone, but its basicaly like taking a small portion of the photo and blowing it up, you will loose pixel count VERY quickly. Its a gimmic, and one that should never be used once the camera is purchased.
The glass is an awesome idea! Why buy glass if its not the glass she needs right? If she feels that she wants to shoot wildlife then why get a wide angle elsn for $1K? Get a 200-400VR [Nikon] IS[Canon and go nuts! If she wants to shoot purtraits you get a lens better suited for that, 50mm f1.4 or a 60something Macro. And so on.
I think its best to know what you enjoy shooting most first, then buy the glass that best suits your goals, rather than buying glass left and right only to have to adapt the gear to the use. Same idea as all the stuff we talk about on here for our rifles, and just as expencive. If I counted up the $ I have in glass and camera I could have had a number of Noveske boom-sticks lol.
Your speaking Greek to me man!
It's mainly gonna be family fun photos, special occasion/portrait type shots of the kids, some landscape shots, and the like.
So would the T1i and the f1.8 be good for that?
-RD62
Your speaking Greek to me man!
It's mainly gonna be family fun photos, special occasion/portrait type shots of the kids, some landscape shots, and the like.
So would the T1i and the f1.8 be good for that?
-RD62
That is kind of what he said, it is a great start. My only suggestion would be is if you have the coin for the f1.4, it wouldn't hurt, but I love my f1.8.
Quit belaboring, the T1i will be plenty of camera for what you've desribed. Just do it. :D
Quit belaboring, the T1i will be plenty of camera for what you've desribed. Just do it. :D
What he said.
...but with the D90... :p
Quit belaboring, the T1i will be plenty of camera for what you've desribed. Just do it. :D
I hear ya! I hear ya...
Thanks for all the help guys!
-RD62
...but with the D90... :p
If he's even considering the D90, and doesn't have a Canon EOS SLR, then he should just flip a coin. Seriously. Both are great and more than enough camera. Way more than enough.
I guess I'll be in the minority and say that if you go Nikon, you'd be fine with the D5000 (instead of the D90 that many are recommending). There are plenty of decent AF-S lenses (lenses that have internal focus motors and will work on the D5000) for what sounds like the intended purpose of the OP.
With that budget, I'd get these:
http://www.adorama.com/INKD5000RD.html
http://www.adorama.com/NK3518U.html
Use Bing Cashback and you'll get ~3% back as well.
Next on the list would be an external flash...SB-600 (preferred) or SB-400.
For what it's worth, I shoot a D90, and my two most used lenses are the 35/1.8G and 50/1.4G. I prefer primes over zooms. I've used a D5k extensively as well and while I prefer the D90 body, the D5k is a perfectly fine camera.
If he's even considering the D90, and doesn't have a Canon EOS SLR, then he should just flip a coin. Seriously. Both are great and more than enough camera. Way more than enough.
You're right. I just had to be the Nikon fanboy. :D
The tech used in these things is so similar that you really can't go wrong between the two. Even as a Nikon guy, there are some things Canon makes that make me drool a little bit.
remember the T2 is out now :) and worth looking at :) yes the D90 is nicer but again the OP asked for a price range :)
Honu- what would you recommend for a compact P&S with good zoom and low indoor light? I have a Fuji F30 that rocks but I need more zoom.
What do you think of the reviews on Steves-digicams?
the SX200 by canon or the new sony HX5V or the DMC-ZS6 and I think the DMC-ZS6 costco had a very good price on special on this ?
I would compare those three and choose the one you like
in quick the Panasonic DMC-ZS6 has some issues with video cause of the sensor it can get bizzare lines ! also the model above it has GPS if you are into that :)
the sony has some super cool pano feature and better video than the others and the canon I think might have the best photos ?
if I was to choose one I might choose the sony as it is good all around and has some cool features and I came really close to getting one but ended up with the pen camera instead cause the wife has a P&S and I wanted more of a camera for daily use !
hope this helps :)
AND
yeah I think Steve does a good job the guys on Fred Miranda are good also
I am part of two boards both are paid to get into though ? and not worth it if you are not a pro and one of them you wont get in unless you are a paid pro ? it keeps out the DPReview types :)
their is some good info on DPreview but its kinda like some other gun forums full of stuff you dont want !!! DPreview reviews are good though ?
another good review site is http://www.imaging-resource.com/
on the left you can compare images that are test images so its fun to compare the same pic to the same pic with dif cameras !
so what do I think about P&S first off let me say my wife has a new canon SD4000 cause it does the job she needs it fits easy in her purse is easy to use does good photos has a decent lens at 2.0 and does nice video it is not the best P&S for quality but I have a pen and a bunch of DSLR to choose from if we want quality
I have a Olympus Pen E-PL1 for my small personal camera and it will take as good a pic up to about 1000 ISO as a canon rebel but I would not recommend it as a first camera ? to many reasons but its more specialty I feel its cheap enough and small enough if we go to the park and then to a store I dont worry about it in the car like I would my pro gear yet the quality blows away any P&S
now P&S are like arguing which mini van is faster or which handgun ammo is better
they are their to fit a niche they can take OK photos or snapshots but SUCK big time compared to a Pro DSLR a rebel with a kit lens wont hold to a 1DS* with L glass !!! but again its all about price and what you want to hump around
the canon G11 is most likely about the nicest P&S for quality picture output but the video is behind on todays standards you are going to get but its not a true pocket camera ?
if we are to compare cameras to guns
P&S is like a handgun its something we can have on everyday and does the job its meant to do nicely but in a battle give me a rifle which is like the DSLR cameras we see it can do a much much better job
now cameras like the Pen or Micro 4/3 are like choosing a KAC PDW its very specialty and its better to get after you own a nice rifle or handgun and why I say they are not what I recommend to start off with
one reason a P&S is not as good is the focus is contrast based vs actual in a DSLR and once you use them their is no comparison
also the size of the sensor is a HUGE thing and why APS-c cameras meaning DSLR with a 1.5 crop usually and micro 4/3 are close in quality they are much larger sensors and why the next step up full frame pro cameras are better than APS-c cameras and why the 5d is much nicer than the rebel type cameras even though both are DSLR !
also as mentioned the mega pixel thing is a double edge sword !
I think for P&S cameras 10MP is more than enough and more usually just gets you more noise in your images and not really better images !
think of it as selling the newbs on gun forums ! yeah hit them with this 450 grain 45 caliber pistol cartridge they are really going to go down hard !!!
you would laugh :) well many pros laugh at the MP thing being a market hype
and again realize a P&S is a pistol !!!!! its not going to take as nice a photos as a DSLR type camera
I do think the super zoom travel P&S are great and fill a niche but if you can hump around a DSLR by all means go for it cause the quality is going to be much much nicer ! but if it is something that becomes a burden and you dont bring it ! you miss out on pics and again if a gun is to big to carry comfy it does no good when you need it at home !!!!
OH and for the record I think nobody in the photo biz except a very few knows I am a gun guy as most are so far wacky lefty artsy obama voters its scary !!!!
hope this rambling helps :)
I believe Stickman shoots the Canon 1DS3, so he can probably steer you right with that brand. Canon definitely has some damn fine product.
I shoot with the 1Dmk3 as well, and have a 40D that I still enjoy.
A used Canon 40D from B&H or Adorama would be very worth checking out, but if you are looking to buy new, the T1 or T2 would be solid choices (though more expensive). If you buy new, you can often get "kit" lenses as well pretty cheap, and while they might not be the greatest glass in the world, it gets you of to a good start.
Sorry I missed this thread, but I don't have a lot of free time, and I seldom frequent general discussion forums.
RD62- IM or email me if I can be of any help.
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