Wolf ammo question

[ss49670]

My first post here. I have a Colt 6940 that has worked perfectly (1500 rounds of assorted ammo) until I fired Wolf steel cased ammo. After about 90 rounds a case stuck in the chamber and would not come out until I squirted some break free in the barrel and used a cleaning rod.
The case was really stuck and required some force to remove. Upon inspection of the case the primer was flattened. Is this a sign of a double charge of powder? The gun still works fine with brass cased ammo. I am afraid to use the remainder of my wolf ammo. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

[DaBears_85]

I try and stay away from Wolf steel case ammo. They coat the ammo in a laquer that gunks up the weapon. I also think it varies from person to person. I've heard some people say that their weapon eats Wolf up and others say what you're saying. I stay away from it just to be safe.

[rob_s]

I try and stay away from Wolf steel case ammo. They coat the ammo in a laquer that gunks up the weapon.

Total nonsense.

To the OP, what type of Wolf was it, 55, 62, or 75 grain? By "flattened" what exactly do you mean? Can you post a picture of it?

I am one of those guys that has fired thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo. You DO encounter issues from time to time, maybe once a thousand. Since this is training and practice ammo and not critical-use ammo, it's a non-issue and worth the savings to me.

[Uncle Alvah]

Wolf is all polymer coated now, an lacquer rounds are older, but they are still encountered once in awhile, mostly in someones stash ammo, not on the market.
I shoot steel case Wolf, Tula, ect. with no troubles. It may not be preferred 1st string ammo, but if my gun just would't run Wolf, I'd not want that gun.

[Belmont31R]

I try and stay away from Wolf steel case ammo. They coat the ammo in a laquer that gunks up the weapon. I also think it varies from person to person. I've heard some people say that their weapon eats Wolf up and others say what you're saying. I stay away from it just to be safe.



They changed coatings quite a long time ago.


I think stuck cases are the most common "failure" with Wolf ammo.


I don't shoot Wolf but have shot some Hornady training ammo. Both 55GR FMJ, and 75GR BTHP's. Its a cheaper alternative to brass case but made with Hornady's components except for the case. Its gotten pretty good reviews from everyone Ive seen who has shot it.

[DaBears_85]

My bad. I can admit when I'm wrong.

I've always been told it gunks up your weapon so have stayed away. In turn, since I don't have any experience with it I shouldn't have said anything. That does however pique my interest in getting some for training as the price is decent. Thanks guys.

[ForTehNguyen]

shoots fine for me

[RogerinTPA]

My first post here. I have a Colt 6940 that has worked perfectly (1500 rounds of assorted ammo) until I fired Wolf steel cased ammo. After about 90 rounds a case stuck in the chamber and would not come out until I squirted some break free in the barrel and used a cleaning rod.
The case was really stuck and required some force to remove. Upon inspection of the case the primer was flattened. Is this a sign of a double charge of powder? The gun still works fine with brass cased ammo. I am afraid to use the remainder of my wolf ammo. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

Shoot one or the other. Steel, fired together with brass ammo during the same range session = a stuck case. It is the only time I have observered this happening. It doesn't happen all the time, but enough to cause severe irritation. Do not mix the two in the same mags or alternate ammo in separate mags unless you clean in between. I've shot Wolf, Barnaul, etc...with both coatings, and without cleaning. I had no problems with it that wasn't related to as bad extractor or bad mag.

[ss49670]

Thanks for all the responses to my question. To answer some of the questions, The ammo was wolf military classic .223 55gr. fmj. The primer being "flattened" seems to resemble what you find in a loading manual showing pictures of high pressure where the primer is flatter and goes out all the way out the edges of the primer pocket . And I did mix ammo that day having fired federal xm193 ammo before switching to the wolf , so that might have something to do with it.

[markm]

Steel cases absolutely DO NOT perform the same as brass. They heat and expand differently than brass.

I even tried resizing some wolf cases in my carbide die just for the hell of it. The same die setting doesn't work for steel... they just don't size down like brass either.

Some guns just run steel better than others.

[Pumpkinheaver]

Reserve the wolf for plinking etc... Use good brass cased ammo for serious use.

[m4fun]

have fired tons of Wolf - no more issues than any other ammo IMHO. A flattened or popped primer is a sign of over pressue normally, but since the shell did not eject...perhaps the fact it staying fixed caused it to flatten ala bolt action, but not quite sure.

Make sure you have a good extractor or at lest the black insert not the old blue extractor insert...or you can try something like an O ring to ensure positive extraction.

[ThirdWatcher]

Steel cases absolutely DO NOT perform the same as brass. They heat and expand differently than brass.

This rings true. The only weapons I fire Wolf ammo in is my AK's. I'm kinda picky about what I feed my AR's.

[bubba04]

Total nonsense.

To the OP, what type of Wolf was it, 55, 62, or 75 grain? By "flattened" what exactly do you mean? Can you post a picture of it?

I am one of those guys that has fired thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo. You DO encounter issues from time to time, maybe once a thousand. Since this is training and practice ammo and not critical-use ammo, it's a non-issue and worth the savings to me.

In the gun you have run wolf, do you only have issues when you fire steel cased ammo, or with brass now as well?

[askani79705]

The steel cases allow more carbon in the chamber because they don't expand as much as the brass.So when you switch to brass they stick.

[RUSKI]

This last Sunday I shot about 250 or so rounds of .223 55gr Wolf. The older laquer coated stuff I had stocked up. In the first 90 or so rounds, I had 1 round that must have been underpowered and failed to chamber the next round but ejected the original one just fine.
I also ran 2 mag dumps with no issue. I started having problems only after I ran one mag of 55gr HSM and reverted back to the Wolf. After that I had 1 stuck casing and later a primer that popped out and jammed up my trigger from resetting. If I only run the wolf, I almost never have a problem except for the occasional underpowered round.
I use 9mm wolf almost exclusively in my Beretta 90-Two without one failure at all in the last 2yrs. My 7.62x39 Wolf has never had one issue either in several years of use through multiple AKs.

[LuckyGunner.com]

There is nothing wrong with steel cased ammo. General consensus is that it's not as accurate as brass cased ammo. As others have said, the switching back and forth between brass and steel has caused cases to get stuck. I reload now so if I purchase .223/5.56 it's brass cased, but if you don't reload it's great for range plinking and training.

Happy Shooting

[WhoUtink]

My BCM middy does not like wolf military classic 55gr. After a mag or two, i started to get stuck cases, just like described. they have to be banged out with a cleaning rod. any brass ammo i have used is absolutely no problem, and I have shot about a 1000 rounds of brown bear with no function problems at all. Even with a clean gun it gets gunked up so quick by wolf the cases start sticking within the first few mags. Brown bear is cheaper so no biggie. I only bought the wolf because it was an emergency.... I needed some range ammo.


eta. I don't believe its the coating either because brownbear has it too. I think the wolf just doesn't expand as much and gunks the chamber with blow by gasses.

[rob_s]

I am probably one of the biggest wolf supporters and eve I'm having more issues than ever before. Granted it's only 1 to 2 stuck cases per thousand but I used to get none and they are getting stuck so tight that mortaring won't clear them. High rate of chamber cleaning helps tremendously. 75 grain is the worst followed by 55 and then 62 in my experience. I'm starting to keep records now to be able to document the issues.

[RogerinTPA]

I am probably one of the biggest wolf supporters and eve I'm having more issues than ever before. Granted it's only 1 to 2 stuck cases per thousand but I used to get none and they are getting stuck so tight that mortaring won't clear them. High rate of chamber cleaning helps tremendously. 75 grain is the worst followed by 55 and then 62 in my experience. I'm starting to keep records now to be able to document the issues.

Agreed. All kinds of issues with the 75 grain Wolf. No issues at all with 55 & 62 grain. For the last 2 years I've shot primarily Wolf and Brown Bear 62 grain HPs and FMJ (approximately 15K rounds fired) + 5K of 55 grain HP black box. no issues at all.

[Molon]

Wolf 75 grain HP

http://www.box.net/shared/static/grhmp6u8k0.jpg



As I’m sure you all know, Wolf is now distributing a 223 Remington, 75 grain hollow point version of their metal cased, “bi-metal” jacketed bullet ammunition. While the 75 grain bullet does indeed have an open tip at the meplat, it is not exactly a typical hollow point design as the base of the bullet is also open, with exposed lead, as in the configuration of a full metal jacketed bullet.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/ze88rqw9w4.jpg




While I’m sure you’ll bring up exceptions to my next statement, the odds are, that if you are using 223 Remington Wolf metal cased ammunition, you’ll probably be firing it from a chrome lined, NATO chambered barrel. For this reason I chose to evaluate the accuracy of the Wolf ammunition using just such a barrel. Accuracy testing was performed at a distance of 100 yards shooting from a concrete bench. The free-float tube of the rifle rode in a Sinclair Windage Bench Rest and the stock of the rifle was stabilized in a Protecktor bunny-ear bag. Wind conditions were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe.

The barrel used as the test vehicle was a 20” Colt HBAR with a 1:7” twist and as mentioned has chrome lining and a NATO chamber. This barrel has repeatedly demonstrated the ability to fire 10-shot groups from 100 yards that hover just above 1 MOA in extreme spread when using match grade ammunition. Sighting was performed using a Leupold VARI-X III with a mirage shade attached. Magnification was set to 25X and the scope was adjusted to be parallax free at 100 yards.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/5yss1lreog.jpg




Immediately prior to testing the 75 grain Wolf ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group from 100 yards with the above set-up using factory loaded Hornady 223 Remington 75 grain TAP ammunition. That 10-shot group had an extreme spread of 1.1”.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/h7vswk084w.jpg





In order to remove as much of the human variable from the process as is reasonably possible and to give the Wolf ammunition ample opportunity to prove itself, I fired five, 10-shot groups of the Wolf ammunition from 100 yards and used the smallest three of those groups for evaluation. Those three groups had extreme spreads of:

5.5”
4.5”
5.7”

for an average extreme spread of 5.2” The three groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group which had a mean radius of 1.47”.

For comparison, three 10-shot groups of Hornady’s steel cased 75 grain “practice” ammunition previously fired from this same barrel at 100 yards had an average extreme spread of 1.45”. The three 10-shot groups of the Hornady practice ammunition over-layed on each other to form a 30-shot composite group had a mean radius of 0.49”.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/ggj0nbmass.jpg




Here's a pic of the “smallest” Wolf 75 grain HP group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/n8xrtc9cs8.jpg




At one point during firing, I experienced a stoppage. Locking the bolt back to examine the chamber area, I discovered a fired case stuck in the chamber and observed that the extractor had torn through the case head. The case had to be tapped out of the chamber using a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. This is the only time that I have ever had a case stick in the chamber of any of my AR-15s.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/rxj3i32cks.jpg





update


Wolf 75 grain HP: Lot - B

http://www.box.net/shared/static/pr6pogn5pz.jpg



I purchased a new lot of the Wolf 75 grain hollow point Performance Ammunition and performed an accuracy (technically precision) evaluation of it in the same manner as described in the first post of this thread. For this evaluation I also used a different 20” Colt HBAR than the one used in the first evaluation as the test vehicle. This barrel has a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist; just as the barrel used in the initial evaluation. This barrel was also free-floated. The rest of the set-up was basically identical in capability to that described in the first post, including front and rear rests and a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification. As always, the wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/knb2dg3c2f.jpg



Prior to firing the Wolf ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group from 100 yards using match-grade, hand-loaded 55 grain Sierra BlitzKings. The extreme spread of that group measured 1.03”.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/k74bdov78i.jpg



Next, five 10-shot groups of the Wolf 75 grain HP load were fired in a row from the bench at a distance of 100 yards. The extreme spreads for those five groups measured:

3.41”
6.09”
3.59”
5.43”
4.63”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 4.63”. Over-laying all five groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab produced a 50-shot composite group with a mean radius of 1.24”.



The “smallest” 10-shot group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/kzhev1qtdi.jpg





The 50-shot composite group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/mos2aorhyy.jpg




With the addition of these newest five groups, we now have a combined total of ten, 10-shot groups, fired by two different shooters, from three different barrels, using two different lots of the Wolf 75 grain Performance Ammunition. The results are summarized below.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/5kgop7dvvn.jpg

[platoonDaddy]

shoots fine for me

+1 three days of a Defensive Handgun class 1400 downrange without an issue (Glock 19)

[nolacopusmc]

I shoot a metric shit ton of Wolf ammo and my experiences mirror those of Rob_S.

Wolf ammo is a text book example of "YMMV" when you factor in all the variables you may encounter between rifles.

[RogerinTPA]

Thanks for the comparison shot groups on the Wolf 75 grain rounds Molon. I had similar shot groups a couple of years ago using my LMT MRP Middy and a 6920. It's pretty frustrating ammo to shoot with any degree of consistent accuracy from a bench rest to say the least. I still have 2 1/2K of it and will be used up during normal range play only. With such inconsistency, I'm not even confident to use it during a carbine course.