View Full Version : Which of these 2 Noveskes should I get?
Well I decided to put of my lightweight project a month or 2 in order to pull the trigger on a Noveske. I have narrowed it down to the following 2 and would like member input / suggestions:
A. N4 Light Basic 14.5 pinned MOE furniture $1450:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lc-moe&cat=81&page=1&search=&since=&status=
http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/lc-moe_2d.jpg
B. 16" Light Recce FSR $1990
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lrfsr-556&cat=103&page=1&search=&since=&status=
http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/lrfsr-556_2d.jpg
Both have a CL barrel made from M249 barrel steel.
The way I see it is the differences are as follow:
- MOE setup will be 6 oz or so lighter.
- Light Recce has free float for greater accuracy.
- Light Recce forearm will be more durable for super duper hard use although I doubt the MOE would ever break.
- Light Recce allows more gadgets to be installed.
- Light Recce has the very cool VLTOR upper.
- Light Recce has a buttstock that I am not crazy about.
- Light Recce has a full 16" bbl which I am a fan of.
So it is worth $550 more to get the VLTOR ($120 extra), Noveske railed forearm ($350 value I assume), imod buttstock ($40 extra), Tango Down grip ($10 extra) for a total of $520 in extra features (maybe I missed some).
As of now I am leaning toward the light recce.
Belmont31R
06-17-10, 20:24
It depends on you not anyone else.
FOR ME a carbine length handguard is too short to be comfortable.
I would ditch that grip and stock on the middy.
Given the different in length is only 1.5" the middy would be a smoother shooting gun, and make more "logical sense" technically.
But no one can tell you what would work best for you since we are all different. Get the one that would work best for you.
I know it has been gone over lots of times, but just for clarity,
Will a carbine gas system gun wear out quicker than a mid gas system gun, all other things being equal? I understand there is a difference in smoothness of operation and reliability.
Belmont31R
06-17-10, 20:37
I know it has been gone over lots of times, but just for clarity,
Will a carbine gas system gun wear out quicker than a mid gas system gun, all other things being equal? I understand there is a difference in smoothness of operation and reliability.
All else being equal a carbine will have slightly quicker wear. You may or may not notice a difference based on your shooting schedule, blind luck, etc.
That Recce is dangerously close to the pricing on KAC SR-15's. When getting near the 2K mark, I'd have a hard time not going that route since they are, in my opinion, a better value.
In any case, I'm not a fan of carbine length gas systems, as I prefer the smoother shooting and the extra room for extending my support hand.
Whether that extra 500 is worth it or not, is up to you and based upon what you intend to do with the thing. If you feel all your needs will be satisfied with the N4, the extra money could go towards an optic, training, ammo, magazines, etc. You didn't mention what your intended use would be.
I own the Recce. I've never cleaned it, just lube & shoot, and I've yet to have a malfunction in the first 1k rounds. Admittedly, I have not run it hard by any means up to this point. Personally I hated the grip & stock that came with it so I swapped them out for MOE equipment which fits me better. The mid-length gas system is definitely more "comfortable" to shoot than the carbine in the fact that it has a smoother recoil impulse. I would not hesitate to purchase either one but it depends on what your goals are for the weapon. Here's a lousy Blackberry shot of mine.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3308/img00098f.jpg
Noveske makes great rifles, but I would instead look at the complete BCM 16" middy rifle packages Grant has on his site. You can get the stock/Handguard/grip you want. It will also be lighter than a comparable Noveske rifle.
Nickdrak, you are right on that. And G&R's BCM rifle with MOE added beats Noveske's price but a good margin and only lacks the M249 barrel steel.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/Complete_Rifle4.jpg
Nickdrak, you are right on that. And G&R's BCM rifle with MOE added beats Noveske's price but a good margin and only lacks the M249 barrel steel.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/Complete_Rifle4.jpg
Yeah, it's still an excellent barrel. He will probably have the complete Cold Hammer Forged barrel BCM's available soon and they wont be much more expensive. You can get one of the standard BCM middys with a free float Troy TRX handguard, MagPul CTR stock and a MagPul MOE or TD BattleGrip for under $1400.00
Doesn't the KAC have a proprietary bolt?
My intended use will be a few carbine classes, self practice / recreational shooting, and the occasional bump in the night or Hurricane Katrina / Rodney King Part 2. In other words, I will be a much lighter user than those who use these products in their line of work.
Doesn't the KAC have a proprietary bolt?
It does. It is also a highly regarded platform amongst high round count shooters.
Doesn't the KAC have a proprietary bolt?
My intended use will be a few carbine classes, self practice / recreational shooting, and the occasional bump in the night or Hurricane Katrina / Rodney King Part 2. In other words, I will be a much lighter user than those who use these products in their line of work.
Then you wont notice the difference in the barrel steel one bit. The Noveske barrel might have a slight edge in accuracy, but these aren't match guns so the difference will be negligible. You would really have to push the round count on both of these guns to their limits to see the difference.
I would gladly take one of the BCM standard barreled guns into harms way. I actually own a self built 16" middy, and I now have a 14.5" middy enroute from Bravo Co. as of today for a new build. Both will serve as my duty/patrol rifles for work.
ETA: These are golden days in-terms of quality & options for the AR platform rifles.
To the op question, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the Noveske options. I like the middy a bit better, and I also prefer the low-pro to the FSR. I wasn't bothered by the tango down grip or the VLTOR stock, but I like the Magpul stuff a lot too. As for the BCM, well I want one of them badly as well.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2qnux5g.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2uqm1c5.jpg
I would go (actually I did) with the Recce FSR. Completely happy with mine.
Since you're considering these two Noveske's here's my $.02.
I have and would recommend the RECCE Basic. I changed my Vltor stock to a CTR and like it better, lighter, tighter, narrower. I'm waiting for the MOE Midlength Handguard to come out to give them a try ($40?). If I don't like the MOE ML, I'll get a Troy Railed Drop-In ($150 & very light)
I know a few months ago, Noveske had the CTR stocks available and it should be a little cheaper than the Vltors, just call and ask them. Joel is a very knowledgeable and helpful.
I think all of the $500 costs for the RECCE FSR over the RECCE Basic is for the railed handguard. I believe the handguard adds more like 8-9 oz, heck I think the Vltors by themselves weigh 3-4 oz more than the MagPul stocks.
You'll have to call and check but you should be able to get a RECCE Basic with a CTR Stock & MIAD Grip (I like the storage and texture) for the $1480 listed on their site (maybe $10-20 less??). Mine rigged like this with a SF 6P and an Aimpoint T-1 weighs a tad less than 8 lbs.
There are a lot of good rifles recommended on your thread but I have not had 1-second of "buyer's remorse" or regret on my Noveske purchases. Also, haven't have a single malfunction, exceptional accuracy, blah, blah, blah...
PS - Add a Geissele SSA Trigger ($180) separately and add it to your gun yourself, then keep the Noveske Trigger for a backup. You'll love the SSA.
I don't think you'll find an unhappy Noveske owner.
Remember this is just my opinion...
.
liseverewx
06-17-10, 23:01
I have the N4 Light RECCE 16" and have nothing but great things to say about it. I haven't made any changes to mine since I purchased it several months ago. Good luck with your decision.
FSR Light RECCE, since it's your money:)
I changed my Vltor stock to a CTR and like it better, lighter, tighter, narrower.
Joel is a very knowledgeable and helpful.
There are a lot of good rifles recommended on your thread but I have not had 1-second of "buyer's remorse" or regret on my Noveske purchases. Also, haven't have a single malfunction, exceptional accuracy, blah, blah, blah...
I don't think you'll find an unhappy Noveske owner.
As a very content Noveske owner (of several), I couldn't agree more with ALL of the above. Particularly, regarding the customer service. Both Joel and Sheri are fantastic.
Also, just some food for thought. Rob_s wrote a great piece regarding his thoughts on selecting an M4/ AR type rifle. I have referred several people/ shooters whom I know to his site because I thought that the rationale in his recommendation was sound. Without really knowing your background, I would suggest that even if you are very experienced the information may still be useful and provide another perspective to aid you in your decision.
Link: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/9201.html
Personally, of the two choices that you list, I would opt for the Reece. But, I should disclose that I have only shot the Reece and not the basic. I have handled both, but that is not the same as firing them both. Just as UCRT said, another opinion.
Good Luck
SkiDevil
P.S. The BCMs are nice too, so either way I don't think you could go wrong. Another, quality/ lower cost option (than Noveske) are the Daniel Defense rifles as well.
the first one...you were gonna build a lightweight one anyway, look's like that has half the issue solved already!
Velcro
Im a very happy owner of the RECCE. I just put in a TROY drop in rail and its still pretty light. Im not sure if it added any weight at all, I cant tell the difference.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/killerchase2000/008_crop.jpg
If you're looking for lightweight, I'd go with the N4 Light Basic.
I just got a N4 LoPro Recce and was a little surprised by the weight of it. Not dissatisfied, just surprised. Were still getting to know each other.
Scoby
Can you tell me what your RECCE weighs w/o optic? Thanks.
Can you tell me what your RECCE weighs w/o optic? Thanks.
No, I don't know what it weighs.
I'm gonna find out soon though just for my own curiosity. The only scale I have is here in my business. I've been hesitant to bring it in and whip it out without warning and my employees in the office thinking I'm gonna kill'em all. I'll have to set this up.
You would think that Noveske would list weights for there products. If I had it to do it over again, I'd call em.
Scoby
B. 16" Light Recce FSR $1990...
its already loaded and done the right way without taking it to the gunsmith or taking up of your own time without the headaches.
I'd go Midlength, Noveske vs. BCM, I only own and have used a BCM, so I can't really compare, but the specs look similar.
I like the Midlength Gas System, for the reasons already stated, softer recoil (not that .223/5.56 recoil is really that bad... and there are some great compensators), longer handguards, and easier on components.
Also, I shoot Wolf for practice, which some people have problems (limited with better brands) with extracting in the shorter gas systems reportedly, so I like the longer gas system as it seems to be more forgiving.
That's what drove me to the Mid Lengths over Carbine Lengths in the AR I built this year.
http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers (http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers)
http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/59827.html
I'm a college student who works part time, I started my AR build in theory in November, I've got a completely finished rifle with sights (still need a few ends) this month, I referenced those articles several times and corresponded with both the authors (very helpful guys, honestly, even though rob_s can seem a little uppity he is very helpful).
I think Pat Rogers is going to release an article on the BCM referenced in 03's article soon.
That being said, I posted those articles more for their comments on the Mid Length gas system (even though they're both BCM guns, they highlight on the benefits of the gas system, and when Pat releases his article (if he hasn't already) that'll be the third article about BCM), I like the concept, and it seems the longer the gas system you can fit, the more reliable the gun will be, (to an extent SBR's are a different animal)
It also operates at lower pressures so in theory your parts will last longer.
I also like to grip further out on the weapon, so it enables me to do so better than Carbine, between that, the more reliable gas system with cheaper practice ammo, softer recoil with all ammo, and less pressure on components.
I was convinced to go with Mid Length.
I will add a note on the SR15E3's,
The SR-15E3's have an even longer gas system than midlength using proprietary gas tubes, which aids in their recoil management, and inevitably increases parts life, they did open up the gas ports a bit more as some shooters were shooting lighter powered .223 instead of 5.56 and it was short stroking the gun IIRC.
The new E3 Bolt has a flat bolt face which reduces the stress on the bolt lugs enabling a longer bolt life in and of it's self, along with redesigned bolt lugs.
They have dual extractor springs on the bolt to promote better extraction.
Not to mention the URX Rails, integrated weapon sights, ambi-dexterous features (Mag release and bolt release) and the 4.5 lb two stage trigger and LMT SOPMOD stock.
I think the SR15E3 is worth the price it asks, if you were considering it, I'd give it a strong look.
Downsides to the SR15E3 IMHO are, I don't know if they sell spare bolts yet or BCG's but that was a complaint I can recall and a few other proprietary parts, such as gas tubes, extractors, etc. and I don't believe that the flip up sights lock into place, so they can be pushed down if they hit or bump something, IIRC, but other then that, it's a very well designed gun.
Hope this has been helpful.
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