ST911
07-22-06, 21:28
During the months of June and July, I did some testing on 3 sample C-Products stainless steel magazines, provided by the manufacturer. The magazines supplied had the Magpul follower variant, chrome silicone springs, and mar-lube finish.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/ColorMatch.jpg
Prior to testing, each magazine was cleaned, inspected, photographed, and marked with a number (1-3) for identification. Only one potential flaw was noted on magazine #1. A small area of peeling was found on the left side of the magazine, within the forward-most groove, at the top. This problem was cosmetic in scope only, and did not develop further during subsequent testing.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/IMG_1805_edited.jpg
During first disassembly, the floor plates on two of the three magazines were inadvertently bent while attempting to lift the floor plate and underlying retention stops over the rear wall of the magazine. This seemed attributable to either stiffer materials in the floor plates or closer tolerances between the floor plate and retention tabs on the magazine body vice the USGI magazines. The problem was easily corrected by bending the floor plates back to shape on a flat surface.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/BentFloorplate.jpg
Each magazine was then inserted and removed from a Colt LE6920 magazine well about 50 times each to assess fit. The magazines were fit tested empty and loaded to various capacities, and with rifle/carbine actions opened and closed.
Magazine #1 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position without resistance. It seated easily and positively when empty and loaded to capacity, regardless of bolt position. It dropped free of the well when released, both empty and loaded.
Magazine #2 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position with some resistance, perceptibly near the top of the magazine. It seated easily and positively when empty and loaded to capacity, regardless of bolt position. It dropped free of the well when released when full, but not when empty.
Magazine #3 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position without resistance. When new, comparatively greater effort was required to seat the magazine, empty and full, regardless of bolt position and whether loaded or not. It dropped free of the well when released, both empty and loaded. Changes were noted later in testing. The magazine would then seat easily regardless of bolt position when empty, but not when loaded with more than 15+/- rounds.
When fit testing was conducted with the other control rifles/carbines, all of the same observations were made. During a fit test in a commercial clone, magazine #2 experienced even greater resistance to insertion, and magazine #3 experienced greater resistance to seating.
After 50x seating:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/50xSeating1.jpg
A variety of magazine pouches, carriers, couplers, USGI spoons and stripper clips, and other related accessories were also used to test compatibility. The C-Products magazines were found to fit any accessory on hand that also fit a standard USGI magazine.
The magazines were then loaded with thirty rounds each and placed loose in the trunk of a police cruiser, unprotected. They remained there for two duty weeks without attention. During the period of time between those duty weeks, they were put into an open-top 4x4 vehicle during some recreational excursions on backcountry trails.
Prior to the next series of tests, the magazines were removed from the cruiser and manually emptied. Each retained all thirty rounds of ammunition. Each showed various surface abrasions consistent with the fit testing and manner of storage, and was dirty. No corrosion or other condition of concern was observed.
Live-fire function of the magazines was tested in several rifles and carbines in inventory of demonstrated function and reliability. Manufacturers and types were primarily Colt carbines LE6920, AR6520, R0979, and an FN manufactured M-16A2 rifle. Semi-automatic only and select-fire modes variants were utilized as indicated. These rifles/carbines were chosen for their known compliance to uniform manufacturing and performance specifications, and as representative samples of the rifles/carbines the C-Products magazines will likely be most used in. Additionally, commercial variants from other manufacturers were utilized on a limited basis to check function and fit, and to allow for the much wider range of tolerances and performances known to exist.
Exercises conducted were of a type common to law enforcement and tactical training environments, and were approximately 1000 rounds in quantity. A portion of this live-fire (est. 250rds) included automatic and burst-fire. No malfunctions of any type occurred.
Ammunition utilized included, but was not limited to DOD M193, M855, Mk262 Mod 1, and FC 50gr Frangible; Black Hills Ammunition 55gr FMJ, 55gr JSP, 68gr OTM, and Federal XM193. An inert training cartridge from Black Hills Manufacturing and Consulting (see T&E report on file) was also utilized without stoppage or failure.
An additional quantity of about 500rds was fired in an assortment of other rifles/carbines under recreational shooting conditions. The magazines were observed to function without stoppage or other failure in rifles and carbines from Olympic Arms, Rock River Arms, and Bushmaster.
A single stoppage occurred under supervision in a DPMS carbine. Upon closer inspection, it was determined that the stoppage was a failure to extract, attributable to two or more conditions in the carbine not involving the C-Products magazine.
In addition to these live fire exercises, additional exercises were fired by colleagues. No failures or stoppages were reported. The quantity of rounds fired and other particulars of use were not provided.
The magazines were not cleaned or maintenance in any way during any time interval between shooting sessions. Upon completion of all of those above they were cleaned and inspected. Wear patterns consistent with repeated insertion and removal of the magazine from the firearm were observed. No other extraordinary wear or corrosion was observed. The magazine springs and followers were perceptibly identical to their new condition.
There was no discernable wear observed on any rifle/carbine, or component thereof, attributable to the magazines.
After live fire:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post1and3.jpg
At the conclusion of necessary live-fire function testing, magazine #2 was selected for abuse testing. Magazine #2 was chosen for it’s differences in fit from magazines #1 and #3.
Drop Test #1: Magazine #2 was loaded to capacity and dropped a distance of five feet onto highway pavement. This was done from an upright position to land on it’s floor plate. This test was repeated ten times. During each impact, the magazine remained assembled and did not experience floor plate failure as expected. A total of 13 rounds were sprung from the magazine at impact, three in a single impact, two in another, and one each in the balance. Following each impact, the rounds remaining in the magazine remained in correct position, allowing the magazine to be inserted into the rifle/carbine. Abrasion and minor deformation of the bottom front of the magazine consistent with these impacts was observed.
Drop Test #2: Magazine #2 was replenished to capacity, and dropped a distance of five feet onto highway pavement. This was done from an upside-down position to land on the feed lips. This test was repeated five times. During each impact, the magazine remained assembled. During each impact, one round was sprung from the magazine. Like in the first test, the rounds remaining in the magazine remained in correct position, allowing the magazine to be inserted into the rifle/carbine. Abrasion was observed on the top of the magazine consistent with the impacts, but no discernable deformation.
Vehicle Impact: Magazine #2 was replenished to capacity, and placed on it’s right side on highway pavement. It was then run over by a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor a total of five times. Most impacts involved both the front and rear tire on the side of the vehicle striking the magazine, producing nearly ten total impacts to the magazine. Afterward, significant abrasion consistent with the impacts was observed on the right side of the magazine body. The magazine remained assembled and did not experience any collapse, failure of any weld or the floor plate, other obvious condition of concern, or loss of ammunition.
Following these abuse tests, magazine #2 fired 90 rounds of ammunition from a single carbine without stoppage. Magazine replenishment was performed via spoon and stripper clip to check continued fit and function of same.
Afterward, despite minor deformation to the bottom front of the magazine, it was easily disassembled, cleaned, and returned to service.
Magazine #2 pics:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post2a.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post2.jpg
Users tend to have unreasonable expectations about the longevity, durability, and reliability of magazines over time. Magazines are expendable wear items, whose questions of serviceability should not receive the benefit of the doubt. Despite the relative inexpensive of the magazine to the firearm, obtaining replacements over time can become costly. Reliable offerings of the USGI aluminum magazine from military contractors range in price from $12.00-$20.00. Replacement of a full complement of magazines for a prepared citizen or a government end-user will easily enter the hundreds of dollars. Bringing a product to the market that offers more value for the dollar is the stated intent of C-Products.
Vulnerabilities of the current aluminum magazine vary by user, intensity of use, and intended duration of use. Recreational shooters, who tend to engage in infrequent, low-volume, low intensity shooting activities will likely not be vexed by them. Not unexpectedly, any potential benefit of the C-Products magazine will be lost on them. Others may find the most frequent criticisms of advanced users of the current magazine to be addressed in compelling fashion.
The C-Products magazine demonstrated consistent reliability when loaded to full capacity, and could be seated in the rifle/carbine in that condition when the action was closed. The current USGI magazine is more often than not difficult to seat fully loaded, and recommendations to download the magazine to 28 rounds are common and prudent. This recommendation is not only for the convenience of tactical/closed-bolt reloading, but for overall reliability as well.
The use of stainless steel in the magazine body appears to provide improved overall structural integrity. Testing revealed no discernable effect of impacts following drop testing and vehicle impact. It would likely endure other anomalous event as well. Such resistance to impact is especially critical to the lesser reinforced and function-critical areas of the magazine such as the feed lips and floor plate retention tabs. Damage to those areas can cause spontaneous disassembly of the magazine and/or loss of feed reliability.
The decision to include the Magpul follower vice the current anti-tilt green USGI follower is noteworthy. Unlike the current anti-tilt follower, the Magpul design renders stoppage inducing follower-misalignment (tilt) nearly impossible. While most follower misalignment events will occur in heavily fouled magazines or automatic/burst fire applications, the use of the Magpul has no apparent downside. The installation of the Magpul follower in current service magazines is already a common end-user modification.
The chrome silicon magazine spring is said to offer comparatively greater strength and less spring-set over time than the stainless steel spring in USGI magazines. How it does so is best left to metallurgists and engineers. If the chrome silicon springs offer comparable performance to the stainless, nothing is lost. If they perform as alleged, there could be benefit. Of note, the chrome silicon spring is not the only spring material/design alternative to have been made available, so perhaps there is improvement to be made. The Specialized Armament “Long-Life/Red Spring” is considerably improved in strength and longevity over the stainless springs.
The “Mar-Lube” finish is another feature whose merits and liabilities are best left to technical experts. The finish supplied was a smooth in texture, flat black in color, and non-reflective. Those concerned with color matching will find the finish hue on the magazine to be close enough to the finish of the control rifles/carbines for visual continuity. The stainless steel magazine is by itself highly corrosion resistant, therefore any finish applied thereto is primarily cosmetic and additional insurance against corrosion. If it should offer more insurance than others that might have been applied, there is no apparent downside. Observations of the finish at the end of this evaluation do appear to support the assertion that the Mar-Lube is a highly durable finish, and apparently more so than the dry-film finish of the USGI magazine.
The C-Products magazine is not the only offering alleged to be an improvement to the USGI magazine. Heckler and Koch, D&L Sports, and other design variants all address various issues to different extents. Commentary on those is omitted here, other than noting their price point as significantly higher than that of C-Products.
Finally, the quality of customer service received by C-Products cannot go unmentioned. The first communication to C-Products was made through the email address provided on the website. Within minutes thereafter, owner/principal Larry Panka, Sr. had personally replied, approved the T&E request made, and provided additional product and pricing information. In the days thereafter, Larry personally called several times to ensure that the magazines he was shipping had all of the features desired. The magazines arrived promptly thereafter. As this T&E process ended, additional communications were answered in the same manner. His level of customer service is noticed, and appreciated.
As with any other product, continued testing and evaluation of the performance of this product in a larger sample size over a longer time period is recommended.
The C-Products stainless steel magazine is marketed as an improved, ultra-reliable, long-life magazine worthy of replacing the long-standing USGI aluminum 30rd magazine. The performance of the magazines evaluated herein does nothing to refute that claim. With a commercial and government price-point similar to the best of the USGI contract magazines, and with common aftermarket add-ons offered as standard features, the C-Products stainless magazine brings considerable utility and long-term value to the end-user.
After eval pics:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/PostAll.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/PostAllSideView.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/ColorMatch.jpg
Prior to testing, each magazine was cleaned, inspected, photographed, and marked with a number (1-3) for identification. Only one potential flaw was noted on magazine #1. A small area of peeling was found on the left side of the magazine, within the forward-most groove, at the top. This problem was cosmetic in scope only, and did not develop further during subsequent testing.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/IMG_1805_edited.jpg
During first disassembly, the floor plates on two of the three magazines were inadvertently bent while attempting to lift the floor plate and underlying retention stops over the rear wall of the magazine. This seemed attributable to either stiffer materials in the floor plates or closer tolerances between the floor plate and retention tabs on the magazine body vice the USGI magazines. The problem was easily corrected by bending the floor plates back to shape on a flat surface.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/BentFloorplate.jpg
Each magazine was then inserted and removed from a Colt LE6920 magazine well about 50 times each to assess fit. The magazines were fit tested empty and loaded to various capacities, and with rifle/carbine actions opened and closed.
Magazine #1 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position without resistance. It seated easily and positively when empty and loaded to capacity, regardless of bolt position. It dropped free of the well when released, both empty and loaded.
Magazine #2 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position with some resistance, perceptibly near the top of the magazine. It seated easily and positively when empty and loaded to capacity, regardless of bolt position. It dropped free of the well when released when full, but not when empty.
Magazine #3 entered the magazine well and traveled its length to the seated position without resistance. When new, comparatively greater effort was required to seat the magazine, empty and full, regardless of bolt position and whether loaded or not. It dropped free of the well when released, both empty and loaded. Changes were noted later in testing. The magazine would then seat easily regardless of bolt position when empty, but not when loaded with more than 15+/- rounds.
When fit testing was conducted with the other control rifles/carbines, all of the same observations were made. During a fit test in a commercial clone, magazine #2 experienced even greater resistance to insertion, and magazine #3 experienced greater resistance to seating.
After 50x seating:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/50xSeating1.jpg
A variety of magazine pouches, carriers, couplers, USGI spoons and stripper clips, and other related accessories were also used to test compatibility. The C-Products magazines were found to fit any accessory on hand that also fit a standard USGI magazine.
The magazines were then loaded with thirty rounds each and placed loose in the trunk of a police cruiser, unprotected. They remained there for two duty weeks without attention. During the period of time between those duty weeks, they were put into an open-top 4x4 vehicle during some recreational excursions on backcountry trails.
Prior to the next series of tests, the magazines were removed from the cruiser and manually emptied. Each retained all thirty rounds of ammunition. Each showed various surface abrasions consistent with the fit testing and manner of storage, and was dirty. No corrosion or other condition of concern was observed.
Live-fire function of the magazines was tested in several rifles and carbines in inventory of demonstrated function and reliability. Manufacturers and types were primarily Colt carbines LE6920, AR6520, R0979, and an FN manufactured M-16A2 rifle. Semi-automatic only and select-fire modes variants were utilized as indicated. These rifles/carbines were chosen for their known compliance to uniform manufacturing and performance specifications, and as representative samples of the rifles/carbines the C-Products magazines will likely be most used in. Additionally, commercial variants from other manufacturers were utilized on a limited basis to check function and fit, and to allow for the much wider range of tolerances and performances known to exist.
Exercises conducted were of a type common to law enforcement and tactical training environments, and were approximately 1000 rounds in quantity. A portion of this live-fire (est. 250rds) included automatic and burst-fire. No malfunctions of any type occurred.
Ammunition utilized included, but was not limited to DOD M193, M855, Mk262 Mod 1, and FC 50gr Frangible; Black Hills Ammunition 55gr FMJ, 55gr JSP, 68gr OTM, and Federal XM193. An inert training cartridge from Black Hills Manufacturing and Consulting (see T&E report on file) was also utilized without stoppage or failure.
An additional quantity of about 500rds was fired in an assortment of other rifles/carbines under recreational shooting conditions. The magazines were observed to function without stoppage or other failure in rifles and carbines from Olympic Arms, Rock River Arms, and Bushmaster.
A single stoppage occurred under supervision in a DPMS carbine. Upon closer inspection, it was determined that the stoppage was a failure to extract, attributable to two or more conditions in the carbine not involving the C-Products magazine.
In addition to these live fire exercises, additional exercises were fired by colleagues. No failures or stoppages were reported. The quantity of rounds fired and other particulars of use were not provided.
The magazines were not cleaned or maintenance in any way during any time interval between shooting sessions. Upon completion of all of those above they were cleaned and inspected. Wear patterns consistent with repeated insertion and removal of the magazine from the firearm were observed. No other extraordinary wear or corrosion was observed. The magazine springs and followers were perceptibly identical to their new condition.
There was no discernable wear observed on any rifle/carbine, or component thereof, attributable to the magazines.
After live fire:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post1and3.jpg
At the conclusion of necessary live-fire function testing, magazine #2 was selected for abuse testing. Magazine #2 was chosen for it’s differences in fit from magazines #1 and #3.
Drop Test #1: Magazine #2 was loaded to capacity and dropped a distance of five feet onto highway pavement. This was done from an upright position to land on it’s floor plate. This test was repeated ten times. During each impact, the magazine remained assembled and did not experience floor plate failure as expected. A total of 13 rounds were sprung from the magazine at impact, three in a single impact, two in another, and one each in the balance. Following each impact, the rounds remaining in the magazine remained in correct position, allowing the magazine to be inserted into the rifle/carbine. Abrasion and minor deformation of the bottom front of the magazine consistent with these impacts was observed.
Drop Test #2: Magazine #2 was replenished to capacity, and dropped a distance of five feet onto highway pavement. This was done from an upside-down position to land on the feed lips. This test was repeated five times. During each impact, the magazine remained assembled. During each impact, one round was sprung from the magazine. Like in the first test, the rounds remaining in the magazine remained in correct position, allowing the magazine to be inserted into the rifle/carbine. Abrasion was observed on the top of the magazine consistent with the impacts, but no discernable deformation.
Vehicle Impact: Magazine #2 was replenished to capacity, and placed on it’s right side on highway pavement. It was then run over by a Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor a total of five times. Most impacts involved both the front and rear tire on the side of the vehicle striking the magazine, producing nearly ten total impacts to the magazine. Afterward, significant abrasion consistent with the impacts was observed on the right side of the magazine body. The magazine remained assembled and did not experience any collapse, failure of any weld or the floor plate, other obvious condition of concern, or loss of ammunition.
Following these abuse tests, magazine #2 fired 90 rounds of ammunition from a single carbine without stoppage. Magazine replenishment was performed via spoon and stripper clip to check continued fit and function of same.
Afterward, despite minor deformation to the bottom front of the magazine, it was easily disassembled, cleaned, and returned to service.
Magazine #2 pics:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post2a.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Post2.jpg
Users tend to have unreasonable expectations about the longevity, durability, and reliability of magazines over time. Magazines are expendable wear items, whose questions of serviceability should not receive the benefit of the doubt. Despite the relative inexpensive of the magazine to the firearm, obtaining replacements over time can become costly. Reliable offerings of the USGI aluminum magazine from military contractors range in price from $12.00-$20.00. Replacement of a full complement of magazines for a prepared citizen or a government end-user will easily enter the hundreds of dollars. Bringing a product to the market that offers more value for the dollar is the stated intent of C-Products.
Vulnerabilities of the current aluminum magazine vary by user, intensity of use, and intended duration of use. Recreational shooters, who tend to engage in infrequent, low-volume, low intensity shooting activities will likely not be vexed by them. Not unexpectedly, any potential benefit of the C-Products magazine will be lost on them. Others may find the most frequent criticisms of advanced users of the current magazine to be addressed in compelling fashion.
The C-Products magazine demonstrated consistent reliability when loaded to full capacity, and could be seated in the rifle/carbine in that condition when the action was closed. The current USGI magazine is more often than not difficult to seat fully loaded, and recommendations to download the magazine to 28 rounds are common and prudent. This recommendation is not only for the convenience of tactical/closed-bolt reloading, but for overall reliability as well.
The use of stainless steel in the magazine body appears to provide improved overall structural integrity. Testing revealed no discernable effect of impacts following drop testing and vehicle impact. It would likely endure other anomalous event as well. Such resistance to impact is especially critical to the lesser reinforced and function-critical areas of the magazine such as the feed lips and floor plate retention tabs. Damage to those areas can cause spontaneous disassembly of the magazine and/or loss of feed reliability.
The decision to include the Magpul follower vice the current anti-tilt green USGI follower is noteworthy. Unlike the current anti-tilt follower, the Magpul design renders stoppage inducing follower-misalignment (tilt) nearly impossible. While most follower misalignment events will occur in heavily fouled magazines or automatic/burst fire applications, the use of the Magpul has no apparent downside. The installation of the Magpul follower in current service magazines is already a common end-user modification.
The chrome silicon magazine spring is said to offer comparatively greater strength and less spring-set over time than the stainless steel spring in USGI magazines. How it does so is best left to metallurgists and engineers. If the chrome silicon springs offer comparable performance to the stainless, nothing is lost. If they perform as alleged, there could be benefit. Of note, the chrome silicon spring is not the only spring material/design alternative to have been made available, so perhaps there is improvement to be made. The Specialized Armament “Long-Life/Red Spring” is considerably improved in strength and longevity over the stainless springs.
The “Mar-Lube” finish is another feature whose merits and liabilities are best left to technical experts. The finish supplied was a smooth in texture, flat black in color, and non-reflective. Those concerned with color matching will find the finish hue on the magazine to be close enough to the finish of the control rifles/carbines for visual continuity. The stainless steel magazine is by itself highly corrosion resistant, therefore any finish applied thereto is primarily cosmetic and additional insurance against corrosion. If it should offer more insurance than others that might have been applied, there is no apparent downside. Observations of the finish at the end of this evaluation do appear to support the assertion that the Mar-Lube is a highly durable finish, and apparently more so than the dry-film finish of the USGI magazine.
The C-Products magazine is not the only offering alleged to be an improvement to the USGI magazine. Heckler and Koch, D&L Sports, and other design variants all address various issues to different extents. Commentary on those is omitted here, other than noting their price point as significantly higher than that of C-Products.
Finally, the quality of customer service received by C-Products cannot go unmentioned. The first communication to C-Products was made through the email address provided on the website. Within minutes thereafter, owner/principal Larry Panka, Sr. had personally replied, approved the T&E request made, and provided additional product and pricing information. In the days thereafter, Larry personally called several times to ensure that the magazines he was shipping had all of the features desired. The magazines arrived promptly thereafter. As this T&E process ended, additional communications were answered in the same manner. His level of customer service is noticed, and appreciated.
As with any other product, continued testing and evaluation of the performance of this product in a larger sample size over a longer time period is recommended.
The C-Products stainless steel magazine is marketed as an improved, ultra-reliable, long-life magazine worthy of replacing the long-standing USGI aluminum 30rd magazine. The performance of the magazines evaluated herein does nothing to refute that claim. With a commercial and government price-point similar to the best of the USGI contract magazines, and with common aftermarket add-ons offered as standard features, the C-Products stainless magazine brings considerable utility and long-term value to the end-user.
After eval pics:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/PostAll.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/PostAllSideView.jpg