Does this accuracy sound about right?

[No Bananas]

Finally got a rig with a scope. Other than a brief stint with an ACOG TA33 (3X), I have not had an AR with a scope for any serious accuracy shooting. I've besn shooting ARs for years, but again not for serious accuracy. It/I wasn't as accurate as I wanted to be today, but maybe that's normal for a new guy.

Set Up:
Noveske Recon Complete upper
Stag Arms Lower
RRA Lower Parts Kit
RRA Two Stage Match Trigger
ADM Recon Cantilever Mount
Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40mm
Troy BUIS

Ammo Used:
-PMC Bronze 55 gr. (100)
- Prvi Partizan M193 (20)
-Black Hills Blue Box 77 gr. Match (20)
-Black Hills Blue Box 69 gr. SMK (20)
-Hornady 75 gr. TAP (20)

I cleaned the rifle after the first five rounds. Then after ten, and then after every 20 rds. Just for break-in. All cleaning was done with a bore guide. I used Hoppes Elite Solvent, a Tipton carbon fiber rod, patches and a Tipton slack plastic brush. I was careful to NOT pull the jag or brush back through the bore, per Noveske's instructions. I paid close attention to my breathing and trigger pull.

I started at 50 yds, and quickly sighted in. Not any more accurate with open sights than my 10.5" LMT or my 12.5" Operator barrels. I put the scope on and it was pretty much sighted in. I did the 50 yd. work with the PMC Bronze. To my astonishment, my two, 3 shot, sight in groups at 50 yds. were about 1.5-2":confused:. I then shot 5 rounds of the 77 gr. (Not SMK) at 50 yds. All one ragged hole.

I moved to 100 yds. My 5 shot PMC Bronze groups were about 2". I tried the 77 gr. 5 shots and it was a little better, 1.5" I know the Prvi Partizan isn't match ammo or anything, but I usually shoot this stuff pretty well from my SBRs at 50 yds (with open sights or my Aimpoint Micro). My first 5 shot group was about 4.7"!! My best group being 2.5". It was frustrating to me to hold the gun snug, rest the crosshairs on the target, still, release my breath and evenly but slowly pull the trigger with the fat part of my finger only to see the holes pop up elsewhere:mad:. The gun seemed to really like the BH Blue Box 69 gr. SMK ammo. My best 5 shot group was .7", and my 10 shot group was .8" minus two called flyers, with the the flyers (both in the same spot) it was 1.5". I did two 10 shot groups of the TAP 75 gr., both being about 1.7":mad:.

I wasn't expecting sub-MOA from PMC Bronze or Prvi, but thought I could get close to MOA. I did better with the ACOG and my 12.5" at 100 yds. then with this set up (with PMC & Prvi). I must admit with the Noveske SS I was expecting to do better than this. I checked my scope mount which seemed rock-solid. I hope I didn't clean it the wrong way or anything. I looked in the chamber. The face Of the barrel chamber (just inside the barrel extension) has some marks or light gouges on it, but not on the chamber mouth or in the chamber, itself. Could that be an issues? I hope it isn't from my chamber/barrel guide. Thoughts?

I've never had an AR trigger this light, or used an AR for this type of accuracy before. So, naturally, it occured to me that I might need more time behind the trigger. My front rest is an old beat up plastic Midway POS, and the rear reabit ears are alright. Still had to do a lot of re-adjusting after each shot. I need to get a quality front and rear rest. Any recommendations that won't break the bank? Thanks for your two cents.

[87GN]

PMC and Prvi M193 are not to be considered match ammunition.

Your 1.5"-1.7" 10 shot groups with the BH and Hornady ammo are just fine.

You're shooting with a 3-9, not a 24x...don't worry.

[No Bananas]

GOod to know. Like all things, I think I also need some more time and ammo before I excpect better groups.

[Pumpkinheaver]

I've had rifles that shot worse!!!

[Failure2Stop]

Tiny little groups require consistency.
If you have never done dedicated precision work, don't be suprised if things don't go as well as expected.

A few other observations-
Ammo can add a lot of inconsistency. The better the ammo, the less inconsistency. Specific guns will like certain bullets at certain velocities better than others. It takes testing to figure it out.

[Belmont31R]

Try a few more types of match ammo. Be sure to get a couple that use 77GR SMK's. They tend to shoot well for most people.




1. Black Hills red box 77 SMK

2. SSA 77 GR SMK

3. Hornady Match 75 BTHP

4. Federal Gold Medal Match 77 SMK

[No Bananas]

Will do. :D

[dave43]

Does a cold barrel shoot tighter groups?

I have been shooting wolf and it seems the longer i shoot the more erratic my patterns are.

Also can wolf cause shots to be off 2-3 moa?

[Belmont31R]

Does a cold barrel shoot tighter groups?

I have been shooting wolf and it seems the longer i shoot the more erratic my patterns are.

Also can wolf cause shots to be off 2-3 moa?



Yes a hot barrel will not shoot as good of groups.


IME different ammo has a different POI. All within a few inches of each other but they do shoot differently especially the further out you go.

[Shihan]

Also lots of practice pressing the trigger doing proper breathing is the cheapest form of practice and will shrink your groups on its own.

[CarbonCycles]

Adding to what the previous poster said about breathing and trigger control, I found this to be very helpful:

B- breathe
R- relax (clear your mind and focus on a clear front sight tip; if you stare at the target instead of the tip, your rounds will be off target) Remember, clear front sight post, and fuzzy target
A- aim (align your sights and find your natural point of aim)
S- stop (stop breathing at your natural respiratory pause)
S- squeeze the trigger, causing the rifle to fire (skillful manipulation of the trigger is key!)
F- followthrough (described above)

[Molon]

The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from my Noveske Recon barrel during accuracy testing from a distance of 100 yards.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/mn2t0xdvql.jpg



http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9426/noveskebarreloutoftheboxframedcc8.jpg



http://www.box.net/shared/static/fzvnvaf2xk.jpg

[SkiDevil]

Hello Bananas,
Because I have a rifle with same barrel, I would suggest the following. Like some others have commented, first try to pick-up an assortment of ammo. Like any other gun, some barrels will group better with other/ different brands of ammo.

Case in point, my rifle shoots almost one ragged hole with the Hornandy FTP TAP round (55, 60, 75).

If you want to check for the true accuracy of the barrel, get match ammo, and a high powered scope (10X plus) for shooting at 100 yards.

Take a look through the search function for member Molon's posts. He is very meticulous in his accuracy testing. Check-out his equipment used and try to follow-suit. He is fairly detailed as to the conditions and equipment used.

My General (Amateur) thoughts on shooting for Accuracy;

1. Double-check again that the scope is properly mounted into the mount and that the scope tube/reticle is centered in relation to the line of bore (your cross-hair is straight in line and not off-center).

2. Use Blue or Green loctite on all of your screws for the mounting hardware.

3. Sand bags work pretty well and are inexpensive.
-As an idea, I bought Shooters Ridge Brand bags and filled them-up with Airsoft BBs and it works pretty well. Cost for both a front bag and rear (Ears) bag was around $60.00 and $8.00 for the BBs at Walmart.

4. Higher-Powered Scope. I think that a 9 power scope will do a good job at 100 yards, but for true accuracy potential something like 15-20x would be better.

5. Find a comfortable position at the bench, which lessons fatigue.

6. Ensure that the rail/ forearm is resting on the front rest (bag) and not the barrel.

7. If possible, shoot earlier in the day/ morning, when there is less wind/ breeze.

8. Let the gun break-in.
If the gun is new/ fairly new, relax and take some time to learn how it shoots. If you have been shooting iron-sighted ARs for a while becoming accustomed to a scope may take some time.

If you are not a paper-puncher (bench rest shooter), then give yourself a break.;) It takes time to become familiar with a new/ newer gun.

I am no expert on the AR platform or a Bench rest/ match shooter, but I have a solid 20 years of shooting experience and can tell you that consistency and an adherence to the basic fundamentals (as cited already in the thread) of shooting will result in the best accuracy that YOU are capable with your equipment.

FWIW: Regarding the ammo, some of the most accurate ammunition (.223 Remington 55 gr FMJ) that I have fired through my Recon barrel and a .308 Winchester rifle were the bulk low-priced UMC Green box rounds. I purchased the ammo at Walmart.

SkiDevil

P.S.
If you are using regular NRA type bulls eye targets consider buying a pack of those (whatever brand) scope sight-in targets. They have 1-inch squares and lines running horizontally and vertically on the paper to help consistently hold the reticle on (centered) target.

[No Bananas]

Great advice, SkiDevil. Thanks.

[bkb0000]

good stuff has been said, and i have nothing much to add except moral support- with a 3x9, 1.1-1.5 is about the best i can do with any barrel with any ammo, and i think im a decent glass shooter.