View Full Version : Lee Breech Lock Challenger Kit
For a beginner such as myself. I have only read about reloading. I have not done it yet. Still in the research phase of things.
So for someone just starting out, who doesn't plan on loading thousands of rounds at a time, is this kit worth the small investment? Or would you say it is a waste of money?
I look at like this; it's $104, and comes with almost everything to get started. I figured I could mess around with it for a few months to see if it is something I am going to want to do. Then maybe go for something bigger.
My fear is dropping 4-500 bucks on a Dillon progressive, and not really liking it.
Is there anyone here who uses this press, who can give an honest opinion on it's quality?
I also considered the four position turret press as well, but I just don't know if I trust the powder charge to be that accurate every time. I think I prefer to weigh it, just to be sure. Like I said I don't plan on reloading thousands of rounds at a time. Maybe a couple hundred at most.
One thing to consider is that the Dillon holds value pretty well. You can pretty easily get a good percentage of your money back if you don't like it (based on feedback I get from customers when they look for used presses and don't find "good" prices as well as a few sales I have seen personally)
I started with the Lee press and it works well, the hand primer is good as long as you do not use CCI primers. The scale and powder measure are junk. RCBS has a similar kit you may want to take a look at.
I started with the Lee press and it works well, the hand primer is good as long as you do not use CCI primers. The scale and powder measure are junk. RCBS has a similar kit you may want to take a look at.
What is your issue with hand priming the CCI primers? The Lee auto prime or is their another issue?
^^ Yeah I was kind of wondering the same thing. I didn't know there were certain primers that you couldn't use with certain devices.
I started with the Lee press and it works well, the hand primer is good as long as you do not use CCI primers. The scale and powder measure are junk. RCBS has a similar kit you may want to take a look at.
Yeah, I heard the powder measure had issues with ball powders, but the scale has been getting decent reviews. What kind of issues have you seen with the scale?
Fyrhazzrd; I purchased the 'Lee Challeger Kit' . I load for the .223 Rem., the .357 mag., and preparing to load for the .45acp. The Powder measurer like other precision measurers takes a little getting used to. Change in routine is what changes the powder throw, so use one routine and you'll be fine. The Challenger does a great job of reloading. I use the hand primer. I like to feel the primers seat in the cases. I've also been looking at Lee's turrent press in case my shooting habits outgrow the joy of single reloading.
Sage
p.s. CCI primers and hand primer? No problems here. However, there is a warning about using large pistol 'Winchester primers' . No more than 20 of these primers should be in the tray at one time.
^^ Yeah I was kind of wondering the same thing. I didn't know there were certain primers that you couldn't use with certain devices.
True, but CCI is one of two brands Lee recommends. From their web site:
However, only those primers manufactured by CCI or Winchester are recommended for use in the Lee Auto Prime, and when loading those primers, safety glasses should always be used. No other primers should be used with the Lee Auto Prime.
RE: Lee Auto-Prime hand primer:
These size may be used with 100 primers.....
all CCI brand primer
Winchester small pistol
Remington small pistol #5 1/2
Remington large pistol #2 1/2
----------------------------------
Only 20 of these sizes
Winchester large Pistol - explosion of more than 20 can turn the primer into shrapnel
----------------------------------
Only 10 of these sizes
Winchester large Rifle
----------------------------------
DO NOT USE FEDERAL PRIMER IN THE LEE AUTO-PRIME
They simply are dangerous when used in the Lee 'Primer Tray' fed system. This does not imply that Federal Primer are inferior by any means.
posted by- Spins: The scale and powder measure are junk.
No offense meant here, because I've heard the same thing from several, but, read this.......
A quote from Larry Potterfield of Midway Arms. 'We compared the Lee Perfect Powder Measure with the most expensive bench rest powder measure, the Lee won, hands down. He advised that extended use improved it's abilities because it coated the parts with graphite, but during break-in -- to get the same results, use Midways MICA to coat the inside of the metering chamber.
No offense meant here, because I've heard the same thing from several, but, read this.......
A quote from Larry Potterfield of Midway Arms. 'We compared the Lee Perfect Powder Measure with the most expensive bench rest powder measure, the Lee won, hands down. He advised that extended use improved it's abilities because it coated the parts with graphite, but during break-in -- to get the same results, use Midways MICA to coat the inside of the metering chamber.
Wow, that's good to know.. Thanks.
RE: Lee Auto-Prime hand primer:
These size may be used with 100 primers.....
all CCI brand primer
Winchester small pistol
Remington small pistol #5 1/2
Remington large pistol #2 1/2
----------------------------------
Only 20 of these sizes
Winchester large Pistol - explosion of more than 20 can turn the primer into shrapnel
----------------------------------
Only 10 of these sizes
Winchester large Rifle
----------------------------------
DO NOT USE FEDERAL PRIMER IN THE LEE AUTO-PRIME
They simply are dangerous when used in the Lee 'Primer Tray' fed system. This does not imply that Federal Primer are inferior by any means.
So I have to ask myself, what design defects does this Lee primer have that make Federal primers and large number of Winchester large primers dangerous?
When I used to use a hand primer (RCBS) there were never any problems with any brand of primers and no restrictions on qty or type. Looking at the RCBS website for their hand priming tool with tray, I can find no such restrictions. (And I have never had safety or functional issues with my Dillon priming system with the sorts shown as problematic nor with my Dillon RF100 automatic primer tube filler)
So what is the problem with the Lee one?
Lee tests their equipment to extreme mis-useage. The results are for safety's sake. They also tested the RCBS Posi-Prime, and with a little mis-use it exploded. This is not a knock on the competition design. It is basically a good design, since they copied the Lee Auto-Prime.
Lee tests their equipment to extreme mis-useage. The results are for safety's sake. They also tested the RCBS Posi-Prime, and with a little mis-use it exploded. This is not a knock on the competition design. It is basically a good design, since they copied the Lee Auto-Prime.
Do you have references?
If you have access to Richard Lee's 2010 reprint of his 2nd edition of "Modern Reloading" see page #50.
If you have access to Richard Lee's 2010 reprint of his 2nd edition of "Modern Reloading" see page #50.
Anything else? Any 3rd party able to reproduce and back him up with his claims?
Given how well Lee's progressive reloaders work (not!) I take a little bit of a grain of salt along with Mr. Lees claims and his really tough testing of stuff. Now, his single stage stuff works pretty well. But I have never heard of anyone having problems with non Lee handheld priming systems. I used one myself for a long time before going Dillon. I do not currently use RCBS (or any other handheld priming system) and have not for about 15 years so I have nothing invested in this.
Again I ask
What is wrong with Lee's design for a handheld primer that it has so many restrictions on what primers and how many you can load into it, when his competition has no such restrictions and no need of such restrictions on their hand held priming systems?
Again I ask
What is wrong with Lee's design for a handheld primer that it has so many restrictions on what primers and how many you can load into it, when his competition has no such restrictions and no need of such restrictions on their hand held priming systems?
For starters the Federal Primers have the same energy as the others , but aren't they thinner skinned and thus more sensitive than the others? SO, if one were to drop a tray full on the floor what do you think may happen ? Mr. Lee doesn't want anyone to get hurt. :cool:
Again I ask
What is wrong with Lee's design for a handheld primer that it has so many restrictions on what primers and how many you can load into it, when his competition has no such restrictions and no need of such restrictions on their hand held priming systems?
Is it possible that they are just being conservative? Maybe there is nothing wrong with using those primers or higher quantities, but they would rather you not take the risk..
I don't know I'm just throwing it out there.
For starters the Federal Primers have the same energy as the others , but aren't they thinner skinned and thus more sensitive than the others?
No. I do not believe I have seen any credible evidence that Federal primers are thinner skinned.
See http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
Thickness "A" is the same more or less for Federal as other brands
SO, if one were to drop a tray full on the floor what do you think may happen ? Mr. Lee doesn't want anyone to get hurt. :cool:
If you drop a tray of Federal primers on the floor, you will have the same problem as dropping a tray of CCI primers on the floor -- a mess of primers to clean up.
If federal primers were such a problem, don't you think any of the other companies who make reloading tools would warn you about them?
If you drop a tray of Federal primers on the floor, you will have the same problem as dropping a tray of CCI primers on the floor -- a mess of primers to clean up.
Have you done that test ? Do you have any third party references ? I haven't, and I hope it never happens, even with CCI brands.
Lee Precission made those tests for our protection, that's all I can say.
Everybody must decide for themselves after that. Whether we believe those who made the tests, or not, is a matter of opinion, and we all have one of those, just like noses.;)
p.s. Here is what Federal has to say about their Primers.
Response from Federal "Prodserv" Prodserv@ATK.COM ATK is Federals parent company.
Generally all primers are the same. Ours are not made softer than anyone else.
Ours may have better sensitivity.
Have you done that test ? Do you have any third party references ? I haven't, and I hope it never happens, even with CCI brands.
Luckily for me, I don't need to make the test or provide references. I am not the one to be making the claims.
Lee Precission made those tests for our protection, that's all I can say.
Everybody must decide for themselves after that. Whether we believe those who made the tests, or not, is a matter of opinion, and we all have one of those, just like noses.;)
p.s. Here is what Federal has to say about their Primers.
Response from Federal "Prodserv" Prodserv@ATK.COM ATK is Federals parent company.
Generally all primers are the same. Ours are not made softer than anyone else.
Ours may have better sensitivity.
I am not trying to hate on Lee stuff. I own a Lee single stage press which I recently purchased for some 50 work. I use Lee decapping dies and Factory Crimp Dies. I use more Lee gear than I use RCBS. I even sell Factory Crimp Dies in a few calibers.
But I find it mighty strange that no one else has any problems with Federal primers being used in their priming systems, that I have seen, and I have never heard of anyone having problems with Federal primers. This is a Liability-sensitive industry and I would be surprised that if Federal primers were an issue that all the other manufacturers would also make disclaimers about the use of Federal primers with their products. But they don't. And you never hear about issues or problems except from Mr. Lee. Which leads me to ask, what is Mr. Lee trying to cover up or excuse in his own design or manufacturing that makes HIS primer tool dangerous with Federal primers, or Winchester Large primers in more than small quantities, when no other manufacturer has a problem and no one else I have ever seen has reported problems with them using other brands of tools. Only Mr. Lee. So the problem seems to be him and his tool, not Federal or Winchester Large primers.
If there was a sensitivity issue that made Federal primers dangerous in priming tools, you would think that Dillon would have a disclaimer about them with their RF100 automatic primer tube filler. It makes a pretty strong vibration to vibrate the primers around a track and up into the tube!
egun; I don't know what else there is to say...... In my last post is a statement directly from Federal Arms that says their primers are more sensitive.
Many 'reloaders' have made the statement that Federal primers are more sensitive and that's why they like them. Just Google [Federal Primers] and check out the forums.
Now I haven't bought any Federal Primers in several years because they are scarce in this area, but men have said these primers come in packages which have individual cups for each primer. Kinda tells you that they are not to be handled roughly.
At any rate. We should be careful when priming, whether it be Federal or any other brand, and one should not have any problem with the Auto-Prime hand primer.
egun; I don't know what else there is to say...... In my last post is a statement directly from Federal Arms that says their primers are more sensitive.
"Ours may have better sensitivity."
Whatever that means. That is sensitivity when being struck by a firing pin. No claims were made that they are more sensitive in a dangerous way.
Many 'reloaders' have made the statement that Federal primers are more sensitive and that's why they like them. Just Google [Federal Primers] and check out the forums.
see above
Now I haven't bought any Federal Primers in several years because they are scarce in this area, but men have said these primers come in packages which have individual cups for each primer. Kinda tells you that they are not to be handled roughly.
Not just federal. I just checked. My Winchester, Remington, CCI, Wolf, and Magtech primers had little cups or crevices for each individual primer in their trays as well. Except for the CCI, if my mind remember right, the trays looked pretty much identical for all the brands. CCI has individual crevices but the primers are in on their sides instead of tops/bottoms.
So what I take from that is that ALL primers, regardless of manufacturer, need to be treated carefully and not roughly.
In your Googling on Federal primers, did you find anything that indicated they were unsafe to use in a hand priming tool (besides in Mr. Lees tests)?
At any rate. We should be careful when priming, whether it be Federal or any other brand, and one should not have any problem with the Auto-Prime hand primer.
Yes, primers deserve to be handled carefully.
So I have to ask myself, what design defects does this Lee primer have that make Federal primers and large number of Winchester large primers dangerous?
When I used to use a hand primer (RCBS) there were never any problems with any brand of primers and no restrictions on qty or type. Looking at the RCBS website for their hand priming tool with tray, I can find no such restrictions. (And I have never had safety or functional issues with my Dillon priming system with the sorts shown as problematic nor with my Dillon RF100 automatic primer tube filler)
So what is the problem with the Lee one?
I just checked the Lee manual. It says if the primers approved for 100 happen to go off it will just blow off the lid. The large rifle and magnum ones if there were 100 would shrapnel the tool. It just says misuse is the cause, it doesnt go into detail about how to do it.
I got the Lee kit with the safety prime system, same kit just different priming system. So if this concerns you check that out.
I bought the Lee kit for the same reason you expressed, I wasnt sure if I would like doing it and didnt want to waste a ton of cash on it. Also I figured if I moved up to something better I could still use the single stage to sizing .223.
CCI primers are harder to seat then others and the lee hand primer will not give enough leverage. I use the hand primer, but not with CCI primers. The powder measure leaks powder like crazy. A friend of mine sent his back to LEE and it still leaks. The scale is hard to get to settle down and gives inconsistent results when compared with my electronic scale.
From Lee's web page
Users have reported that the primers in the tray of an Auto Prime can explode for various reasons, some of which include: a cocked primer, or an attempt to prime a case which has a primer already in place, or more than one primer on the punch, or priming a military case with the crimp not completely removed. Should an explosion occur, our tests have demonstrated that safety glasses will normally prevent serious injury to the user if CCI or Winchester primers are used, because the explosion is minimal. Other primers, however, can explode with sufficient force to seriously injure the user, or persons nearby. We do not take any position with respect to the quality or performance of primers available on the market. However, only those primers manufactured by CCI or Winchester are recommended for use in the Lee Auto Prime, and when loading those primers, safety glasses should always be used. No other primers should be used with the Lee Auto Prime.
Thanks for all of the advise, I really appreciate it. So I think I have decided to go with the anniversary kit instead. And I'll just use the press mounted hand primer instead of the hand primer.
Also on my order form I have:
The Lee Factory Crimp
Redding .223 2 die set
Lee Case length guage
mica (for the powder measure)
Redding shell holder
Flipscale F3 Digital Scale
Can anyone think of anything I'm missing? I already have the Lyman tumbler, so I'm covered there.
Also as far as manuals go. I have a couple already, but is it necessary to have the manuals for the specific brand of Bullets that you plan on buying? Or is it okay to go off of type IE GR, point, tail?
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